Do only superstars get into competitive residencies?

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idkididk

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I'm an average MS1 finishing up my first semester at a mid-tier US MD school (for the record, I'm very happy being average. I get to have a life outside of school which I value very much). From my job during my gap year, I'm currently hoping to go into ophtho. We've had 3 unit exams so far, and I've been pretty much a few points above/below the mean on all 3, nothing outstanding. Right now I'm working on finding a clinical research opportunity with the home ophtho department and scheduling a meeting with the Chair. I guess I won't really know until after step 1, but could I sneak into a competitive residency like ophtho despite mediocracy?
 
most likely if you are an average student you will do around your schools average step. Look at charting outcomes of the match to see if that will be good enough.

I'd probably then subtract some points for having to ask SDN whether competitive residencies want competitive applicants.
 
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I'm an average MS1 finishing up my first semester at a mid-tier US MD school (for the record, I'm very happy being average. I get to have a life outside of school which I value very much). From my job during my gap year, I'm currently hoping to go into ophtho. We've had 3 unit exams so far, and I've been pretty much a few points above/below the mean on all 3, nothing outstanding. Right now I'm working on finding a clinical research opportunity with the home ophtho department and scheduling a meeting with the Chair. I guess I won't really know until after step 1, but could I sneak into a competitive residency like ophtho despite mediocracy?

To answer your question, in 2016, yes pretty much.
 
If you develop very good connections and do a significant amount of research, possibly.

However, it's not worth all that. Just do as well on Step 1 as you can. You don't necessarily HAVE to break 250, but I would put a bare minimum for a field like ophtho that seems pretty score-driven to be bare minimum 230? Look at charting the outcomes for each range of scores.
 
I'm not sure how seriously to take this question (especially with all the obvious responses above - competitive does mean competitive), but I can offer a voice of dissent. I've seen plenty of average candidates match into dermatology (my specialty). You have to figure out how you are going to make up for mediocrity though. Is it through connections? Willingness to do residency in a less desirable area? Amazing interview skills and personability? It's doable but only with a good plan in place and a little creativity.
 
I guess I should've made my question more clear. I'm working on other parts of my resume to make myself more competitive for a competitive residency. But are 1st/2nd year performances good predictors of much? Step1, according to MrChance2?
 
If you develop very good connections and do a significant amount of research, possibly.

However, it's not worth all that. Just do as well on Step 1 as you can. You don't necessarily HAVE to break 250, but I would put a bare minimum for a field like ophtho that seems pretty score-driven to be bare minimum 230? Look at charting the outcomes for each range of scores.
Ophtho isn't reported on Charting the Outcomes.
 
Oh, right. Do they have any sort of reporting statistic from their match? Was never interested in Ophtho/Urology so not familiar.

I'm not sure. I'd be curious to know because I've always wondered what the official Step 1 averages for those two are.


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My read of SDNers who self report on this, plus input from senior residents and attendings is generally yes, but especially so for the programs at top places. The Program Directors survey will tell you exactly what you need:

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

Just looked at the index. Naturally, Ophtho is NOT listed! Suggest looking at similarly competitive areas like Derm, NeuroSurg, and ENT

Generally, you should have great (not merely good) Step I scores, LORs from people in the field, and research

I'm an average MS1 finishing up my first semester at a mid-tier US MD school (for the record, I'm very happy being average. I get to have a life outside of school which I value very much). From my job during my gap year, I'm currently hoping to go into ophtho. We've had 3 unit exams so far, and I've been pretty much a few points above/below the mean on all 3, nothing outstanding. Right now I'm working on finding a clinical research opportunity with the home ophtho department and scheduling a meeting with the Chair. I guess I won't really know until after step 1, but could I sneak into a competitive residency like ophtho despite mediocracy?
 
There is data on the SF Match website regarding stats for the ophtho match, but it is not anywhere close to as robust as what's reported on Charting Outcomes. Google it, you'll find it. There is also a misleading stat about the matching of US seniors into the field that's often misinterpreted... it reflects the percentage of those that match who are US seniors and not the %of US senior applicants who match (a very different idea). No one really knows for sure the match rate for US seniors in ophtho as the data is not public like it is on the NRMP reports.

To answer your question though, your M1 and M2 matter insofar as getting AOA. The grades themselves don't really matter that much unless you fail or conditional. AOA is better, but not an absolute must. It will get you more interviews though. Not getting it will not prevent you from matching. Do as well on Step 1 as you can obviously. A lower step is not deal-breaker, but will make getting interviews more challenging. I personally think your M2 performance will be more predictive of Step 1 score. M2 material is much more interesting and relevant to your future career. If you're anything like me (sounds like you are), you'll likely perform better M2 because you'll be more engaged and the idea of Step 1 looming will drive you more.

Get to know your home program well. Hopefully you're likable. If they like you, this will help you.

Lastly, keep an open mind. Medicine and it's specialties are vast. I didn't fall in love with ophtho until almost half way through my M3 year. There's a lot you haven't been exposed to yet and a lot of awesome fields. Don't be myopic 😉 Good luck.
 
hmm... 92% match rate. Wonder if they would take a washed up applicant with some serious baggage in the standardized step score category....
 
244 sounds maybe a little low for Ophtho?

For neurosurgery it was 244 a while back but I heard it has since risen to 249 average.

hmm... 92% match rate. Wonder if they would take a washed up applicant with some serious baggage in the standardized step score category....
Friend, you're not washed up. People who fail a step exam 3 times, maybe. But you're going to be alright

I know you don't want to hear this, but you are addicted to negativity. You need to do the hard thing, here. You need to break the cycle. Isn't there something for which you can feel grateful? I'm thinking you could start by changing user names; you are constantly reinforcing your own belittlement. Life can be so much better than you're making it...
 
According to this document it looks like a bit below the 76th. The document is out of date so take it with a grain of salt.

A 244 can be achieved with dedication and planning throughout MS2. I won't say its easy, but it isn't an impossible task.

Woah I thought it was going to be like 95%... That makes me feel a lot better!
 
Woah I thought it was going to be like 95%... That makes me feel a lot better!
It used to be a way higher percentile... but there has been consistent score creep/score inflation over many years
 
hmm... 92% match rate. Wonder if they would take a washed up applicant with some serious baggage in the standardized step score category....

As noted earlier, the 92% refers to the % of matching applicants who were US Seniors (so this is basically useless info). The percentage of US Senior applicants who matched is unknown, but is speculated to be in the 75% range
 
It used to be a way higher percentile... but there has been consistent score creep/score inflation over many years

Due to students prepping better/higher scores or what?
 
You don't necessarily have to be a superstar, but you better believe you should be within the average of all applicants applying for the particular field.

(Unless of course Daddy is best friends with the PD or such)
 
hmm... 92% match rate. Wonder if they would take a washed up applicant with some serious baggage in the standardized step score category....
I hear the cutoff is 223, everyone that scores below that and enters the match gets thrown into the Sarlacc pit.

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According to this document it looks like a bit below the 76th. The document is out of date so take it with a grain of salt.

A 244 can be achieved with dedication and planning throughout MS2. I won't say its easy, but it isn't an impossible task.

That document was updated June 2016. How is that out of date?


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Not every competitive applicant wants to go into a competitive specialty. Most of the 260+/AOA folk I know are going into IM, Peds, or Gen surg granted they're going to end up at MGH, JH, etc. Most of those who applied ophtho, ENT, plastics, or derm wanted to do it since MS1 and just built up their app (some are certainly not superstars). I do know of one classmate who switched from geriatrics to derm shortly after becoming AOA but they're an exception.
 
244 sounds maybe a little low for Ophtho?

For neurosurgery it was 244 a while back but I heard it has since risen to 249 average.


Friend, you're not washed up. People who fail a step exam 3 times, maybe. But you're going to be alright

I know you don't want to hear this, but you are addicted to negativity. You need to do the hard thing, here. You need to break the cycle. Isn't there something for which you can feel grateful? I'm thinking you could start by changing user names; you are constantly reinforcing your own belittlement. Life can be so much better than you're making it...

Thank you for your kind words. I promise I am positive in real life. Just whenever I hear people talk about Step 1 (or get reminded of it) or look at Charting outcomes or think about residency match...I tend to lose it. I'm trying to get over it, just given my failures with standardized tests my whole life, I doubt I will get over this one until (and if) I get interviews. At that people I think I will be able to put it behind me because I feel people will have forgiven my mistake/failure and I will not be carrying that attitude any further (especially on interviews).
 
Some schools have average step 1 above 240-250. I think even an average kid in those schools has no problem getting into a competitive specialty.
 
Thank you for your kind words. I promise I am positive in real life. Just whenever I hear people talk about Step 1 (or get reminded of it) or look at Charting outcomes or think about residency match...I tend to lose it. I'm trying to get over it, just given my failures with standardized tests my whole life, I doubt I will get over this one until (and if) I get interviews. At that people I think I will be able to put it behind me because I feel people will have forgiven my mistake/failure and I will not be carrying that attitude any further (especially on interviews).

What step 1 would have made you happy?
 
Some schools have average step 1 above 240-250. I think even an average kid in those schools has no problem getting into a competitive specialty.

such as?
 
Source? Do not believe >250 at all
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4673073/
Table 2
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https://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/2015 1Performance Summary.pdf

Nice try, UVA was at 235 last year


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Oh, the dean of admissions told us it was exactly 240 when I interviewed, but I guess that was 2014-2015 so two years ago. Interesting that it's decreased a bit.

Edit: looked up 2014 (https://www.med-ed.virginia.edu/handbook/pdf/2014 1 Performance Summary.pdf) and it's 237, so I guess what I was told was not accurate.
 
Source?

It's pretty stupid that multiple posters have had to ask for sources.

I'm sorry I didn't realize that this was such an important point of contention that I needed to find a source. But here's what I have.

My initial source for UVA was the dean of admissions when I interviewed (2014-2015 cycle) who told us that half of all students at UVA score 240 or above on Step 1. That suggests that the median step 1 score at UVA was at least 240. However, this was found to be incorrect because UVA publishes their finalized data on their website (see above). Thus the information given to me was incorrect. My apologies for thinking that information that I got from what initially appeared to be a reputable source was incorrect.

At my Duke interview day (same cycle), I was told something similar, though given that the information given to me at my UVA interview was incorrect, it is possible the same is true for Duke. It's possible that current Duke students have access to their school's median step 1 scores and can provide more precise information.

For Columbia, we were given a powerpoint presentation about recent scores on Step 1 and Step 2. For Step 1, the powerpoint said that median score ranged from 239 to 241 depending on the year. I double checked this on the powerpoint just now. I am not permitted to share these resources, so you can either take my word for it or not (or ask another Columbia student and have them verify).

If you want another one with source, Baylor's mean has been >240 for the past several years (https://www.bcm.edu/education/schools/medical-school/prospective-students/success-indicators), though because it's the mean, it could be affected by skew.

There really aren't a lot of reliable sources out there for schools outside of information given to current students by their administration. Some schools publish their medians, but most don't. USNWR has "medians" behind their paywall, but their accuracy is questionable.
 
there is a feeling here, always will be, that getting into competitive residencies translates into a successful life (and for that matter a successful job). The answer to that could not be further from the truth. Your attitude determines that only, with a few other intangibles. I say this as a hyper competitive specialist that excelled in all aspects of training. Dont get too caught up in this race, the returns are not worth many of the sacrifices you suspect you are wiling to make.
 
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