DO or MD, international student version

[bvan95]

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Hi everyone,

I'm applying to both DOs and MDs. I know this is *super* duper early in the game and I might not even get accepted anywhere, but, for curiosity sake, if it comes down to a DO vs a MD school, which option would be better for me? (I'm a Vietnamese student with no green card)
I have heard that it's another uphill battle for intl students during residency match so does it make a difference which I path I take?

Please pardon my blatant ignorance!

 

[Phile98]

Both will make you a doctor but MD will generally increase your chances at a better residency. However, there are always exceptions to this. There are DO's at fantastic residencies and MD's at average ones.

 

[bvan95]

Both will make you a doctor but MD will generally increase your chances at a better residency. However, there are always exceptions to this. There are DO's at fantastic residencies and MD's at average ones.

Yes, I do realize that there are some great DO schools out there. I'm just a little concerned especially w/ the current political climate and the merging of the two residency match system >.<

 

[bvan95]

While I agree with the above, an international student with no green card, which would be "easier" residency hill to climb. I would speculate (key word speculate) that DO residencies have much less experience with international students. On the other hand, have a DO would allow the OP to apply to both MD and DO residencies, thus widening the pool. its a toss up

But don't DO schools have international students as well? Also I never thought about the aspect of the widening pool!

 

[Phile98]

w/ the current political climate

I don't see how the current political climate has anything to do with being a MD or DO.

 

[gyngyn]

There are only about 55 MD schools that consider internationals. Most matriculate 2 or fewer.
About a dozen DO schools consider them.
If you are fortunate enough to be admitted to an MD school, great. If not, DO is the only other option.
It's less likely to be a matter of choice, but rather necessity.

 

[bvan95]

I don't see how the current political climate has anything to do with being a MD or DO.

I meant that it doesn't seem to be international student friendly, which might make residency more challenging. But I think I get too carried away

 

[gyngyn]

I would assume it is just a general fear all that is going on with growing restrictions on immigration and the indirect pressure that residency programs may feel when considering non-US Citizens or Permanent Residents. The visa hoops that a program has to go thru to get an international may become too onerous. I wouldnt be surprised if we see an increase in US-IMGs and decrease in non-US IMGs in upcoming NRMP

This already happened this year.
Every time an intern cannot start on time because of sudden restrictions in visa policy, the less likely their PD is to rank someone at risk.
We have already seen an increase in the difficulty of getting a residencies for international students who attend our medical schools. The heartbreak of watching a well-qualified student SOAP into a surg pre-lim year after year begins to make one wary of repeating the pain.

 

[bvan95]

There are only about 55 MD schools that consider internationals. Most matriculate 2 or fewer.
About a dozen DO schools consider them.
If you are fortunate enough to be admitted to an MD school, great. If not, DO is the only other option.
It's less likely to be a matter of choice, but rather necessity.

This is what I'm thinking as well, especially since my stats aren't *super star* materials either I would be more than happy to be accepted by any of those schools and begin my education tbh.

 

[Nightwrath]

Similar situation also an international student,schools take so few of us I’ve had the mindset of if you’re accepted just go.

 

[fluffpop]

posted a similar thread here. not the exact same queries but im in a similar situation as u

MD/ DO patient attitudes for internationals

 

[fluffpop]

There are only about 55 MD schools that consider internationals. Most matriculate 2 or fewer.
About a dozen DO schools consider them.
If you are fortunate enough to be admitted to an MD school, great. If not, DO is the only other option.
It's less likely to be a matter of choice, but rather necessity.

This 55 number is actually inaccurate and higher than the reality. Many of those 55 only take Canadians and several have stopped taking internationals. As of 2018 Case, Baylor, GWU have stopped taking non citizens. a good number accept maybe between 0-1, some simply lump internationals with out of state students , some say they consider them without looking at citizenship but are ineligible for any loans, only 5-6 (top programs) consider them without looking at citizenship and provide need blind fin aid. This is based on my personal correspondence with all these offices don't come for me plzzzz

 

[gyngyn]

This 55 number is actually inaccurate and higher than the reality. Many of those 55 only take Canadians and several have stopped taking internationals. As of 2018 Case, Baylor, GWU have stopped taking non citizens. a good number accept maybe between 0-1, some simply lump internationals with out of state students , some say they consider them without looking at citizenship but are ineligible for any loans, only 5-6 (top programs) consider them without looking at citizenship and provide need blind fin aid. This is based on my personal correspondence with all these offices don't come for me plzzzz

Yes, I know (except for the lumping of international and OOS, AMCAS does the reporting from raw data).

 

[Penguin03]

I hope the application process is going well for you guys. I am an international student who is a first year medical student. DO gives you a great medical education with OMM as extra skills for you to help your patients. So apply broadly and see where you end up. In the end of the day, you want to become a good DOCTOR so give yourself more chances to make it a reality.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

While I agree with the above, an international student with no green card, which would be "easier" residency hill to climb. I would speculate (key word speculate) that DO residencies have much less experience with international students. On the other hand, have a DO would allow the OP to apply to both MD and DO residencies, thus widening the pool. its a toss up

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the ACGME/AOA merger, won't MDs and DOs all be eligible for the same residencies? If I'm understanding it correctly, then DO doesn't really confer any advantage there unless you think most or all of the formerly DO only programs will simply ignore MD apps to keep the programs DO only.

 

[Goro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the ACGME/AOA merger, won't MDs and DOs all be eligible for the same residencies? If I'm understanding it correctly, then DO doesn't really confer any advantage there unless you think most or all of the formerly DO only programs will simply ignore MD apps to keep the programs DO only.

I don't foresee a flood of MD grads filling up the former AOA programs, and there were' that many of them to begin with. We have already received news that some former AOA PDs are, well, rigging the system by having a bar for COMLEX that is far lower than USMLE (ie, they'll take someone with a 500 COMLEX, but a 250 USMLE). The later is a very very high score, some 20 points above the national median.

Over time, I foresee a diffusionary process that will benefit most grads.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don't foresee a flood of MD grads filling up the former AOA programs, and there were' that many of them to begin with. We have already received news that some former AOA PDs are, well, rigging the system by having a bar for COMLEX that is far lower than USMLE (ie, they'll take someone with a 500 COMLEX, but a 250 USMLE). The later is a very very high score, some 20 points above the national median.

Over time, I foresee a diffusionary process that will benefit most grads.

But since some AOA programs chose to shut down rather than conform to ACGME requirements (whether by choice or because they couldn't meet standards) and the ACGME programs that effectively screened out DOs already aren't likely to change that, the merger already means fewer residency spots for DOs. So if even a few of the AOA programs take MDs, that's more spots for them.

 

[chemdoctor]

So are Canadians considered international or just out of state? Do they need to have the same rock star stats? What schools should they target? Do some med schools NOT consider Canadians as international students?

 

[gyngyn]

So are Canadians considered international or just out of state? Do they need to have the same rock star stats? What schools should they target? Do some med schools NOT consider Canadians as international students?

AMCAS includes Canadians in their tally of international applicants.
You can use the MSAR to filter for the schools that consider Canadians. There are apparently 68 of them.

 

[chemdoctor]

AMCAS includes Canadians in their tally of international applicants.
You can use the MSAR to filter for the schools that consider Canadians. There are apparently 68 of them.

Would a canadian student have an "easier" time as opposed to applicants from other countries?

 

[gyngyn]

Would a canadian student have an "easier" time as opposed to applicants from other countries?

All else being equal, yes.
More schools will consider them, no language barriers, transcripts are available...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

no language barriers

What’re yoo on aboot?

 

[seren1051]

What’re yoo on aboot?

Looking for my dislike button

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Looking for my dislike button

Sorry I don’t have my Canadian-to-English dictionary.