DO or Postbacc?

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Umm, wow.

There are a lot of misconceptions that you have about osteopathic educations that a quick search on SDN will quickly solve.

But since you have already shown a strong bias against osteopathic education, and have done little research on the potential (as well as drawbacks) on osteopathic medicine - something tells me that you already have made up your mind on which one you wanted to do and just looking for validation through an anonymous internet forum.

And since you posted on the Pre-DO forum, your answers will be skewed towards NYCOM. If you post on Pre-MD, your answers will be skewed towards Drexel.

Good luck at Drexel.
 
You got into NYCOM and you're this completely ignorant about osteopathic medicine? I don't believe you.

Furthermore, you might want to look at the Drexel thing again. I know of no post-bacc that offers guaranteed acceptance anymore. At best it's a guaranteed interview, which is of course a shell game. They could interview a broom stick, provided the broom stick paid them 50k for the post-bacc program.
 
Sho said:
I'm looking for your advice on my situation: I've been accepted to NYCOM and interviewed for a postbacc program at Drexel that guarantees an acceptance to their medical class (as long as I maintain a 3.0 GPA). If the postbacc program ends up accepting me, I'm really not sure where I should go.
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So the decision is med school vs potential for postbac?


If I go for DO:
- I'll need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE later on.
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NO. COMLEX is required. USMLE is optional but recommended if you want to pursue ACGME. (see previous SDN threads for discussions)

- I think it will be harder for me to get into a somewhat competitive residency such as anesthesiology or internal med.
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Maybe. Competitive programs in Internal Med and Anesthesiology may be more difficult but in general, plenty of DOs in both. There are DOs at Hopkins (Aneshtesiology), when I was in med school the chief resident of anesthesiology at BWH (HMS) was from PCOM, etc. Internal Med - harder to get the top programs (Mayo/MGH/Hopkins Osler/UCSF). But plenty of DOs at mid-tiers academic university programs.

Given your utter lack of research skills (as demonstrated), and I suspect decision-making skills (subjective opinion on my part), what makes you think you'll be a competitive candidate for Hopkins or Mayo or Mass Gen?

- Foreign countries do not recognize the DO degree. At some point in my career, I'd like to participate in international medical missions and/or seek to gain more knowledge from foreign doctors.
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Medical mission or planning on moving to another country to practice full time? (fantasy of every pre-med)
Please do a search on SDN for practice rights. A Drexel MD won't necessarily guarantee you practice rights either. And medical missions typically accept MDs/DOs (as long as you are licensed) - beggers can't be choosers. Please see the various medical mission websites for details.

If I go for Postbacc:
- I'll end up with an extra $50,000 of debt.
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Yep - sucks.

- I'll have to spend another year... But considering that I don't have strong MCAT scores (because I didn't grasp basic science concepts well enough in my undergrad years), I like to have an extra year to prepare me for M1 year and the board exams.
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And what if you have a hard time at Drexel and don't make the GPA cutoff (or MCAT cutoff) because of your lack of solid basic science foundation?. Then you'll be a few years older, deeper in debt, and no med school admission in hand.

- Drexel is not a top-tier school, but still it's held to higher standards than AOA credited D.O. schools (yes/no?).
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Wow, trash talking DO schools already even though you have no idea what accrediation is, or the process involved.

And I want to practice in the Northeast (NY, Boston, DC, NJ,...) after residency.
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Good for you.

What do you all think?
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That you should have done more research into your future before you dropped money for AACOMAS, NYCOM secondary fee, interview expenses, and now Drexel Postbac application.
 
I was pretty ignorant with DO's in the beginning but I did some googling to address one concern about international missions:

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/work/field/profreq.cfm

Doctors without borders says "MD or DO"...good enough for me!

Also there are some other posts on here where people are contemplating the same thing you are, its a pre-DO forum and most people here are trying to get into a DO med school, you're gonna get an obvious response with your question and may make some people angry in the process!
 
To keep it real, there will be (at least for awhile) this view that DO's are "different" or "not as good," even though anyone rational will tell you that they are the same thing as MD. Maybe this will even translate to work opportunities. If you can't live with the fact that your degree will be a DO, just do whatever it takes to get the MD. If what drives you is to be a physician and help people despite others judgment, go for the DO.
 
Pre-meds should have to pass some sort of exam before they can post on these boards ... Jesus Christ. There are literally so many misconceptions in that initial post, that I can't even break it down.
 
good GOD !

DO NOT GO TO THE DREXEL POST BAC. I was a former student in the SMP (IMS) program there and it was a complete waste of time and money. I hated it there. Granted some love it, I didn't. Also, i'm assuming you're not talking about the IMS program, b/c that program only promises an INTERVIEW with above a 3.0. Another related program, the MSP program is fairly easy but doesn't guarantee anything, interview or acceptance.

The only program there that gives you acceptance is....i forgot the acronym....but its designed for minorities and under-privileged students, its basically the same thing as the IMS program.

ANYWAYS....this program is VERY difficult. In order to get that 3.0 or B....you need to do better than the current medical school class avg. which is VERY high. Essentially you need to do better than half of the future doctors at drexel med.

I have had friends that went from this program to drexel med, but honestly most people at drexel post bac end up at a DO school anyway.

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, I'm from the west coast and I didn't mesh well with philly.....
 
This is just my opinion. It has nothing to do w/ OP

I see so many threads starting with "I got into xxx DO school but I dunno if I should __________". I understand all these people have their own reason to consider this. But, I do not understand why people even apply if they do not have a solid mindset to pursue DO. I know many people apply to DO schools as a backup to allopathic schools. But please ..get to know the principles of Osteopathic medicine first... not just by reading what it is on wikipedia. Talk to DOs in your area. Talk to your pre-med advisors. Visit the campus. Email academic advisors @ DO school.

After all... it's one's choice
 
Go to Drexel for sure. If I was in the shoes of the next person on NYCOM's waitlist you would be my savior. If this is a serious question in your mind you obviously don't truly want to go DO. And people are waitlisted when they would really appreciate the spot that you don't.
 
TriagePreMed said:
To keep it real, there will be (at least for awhile) this view that DO's are "different" or "not as good," even though anyone rational will tell you that they are the same thing as MD. Maybe this will even translate to work opportunities. If you can't live with the fact that your degree will be a DO, just do whatever it takes to get the MD. If what drives you is to be a physician and help people despite others judgment, go for the DO.
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👍

Yes, i've applied to drexel SMP before. It is not guarantee acceptance, just interview. Getting an interview does not = acceptance.

(http://www.drexelmed.edu/Home/Acade...terdepartmentalMedicalScienceIMSProgram.aspx)

And you gotta be damn sure you can do well in those MS1 classes. It is a chance game. From your post, the specialty you want can be achieve by being a DO. Afterall, it is how hard you work that gets you there, not the medical school. Many foriegn countries does accept DO, perhaps check out which countries you are interested first and see their policy. Giving up an medical school acceptance is never a good thing. Think long and hard before you make this decision.
 
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I did my masters at drexel and took classes with some of the IMS students. Many of them hated it. Your core classes arent even real! You "take" classes via recorded lectures. Seems really stupid to me. And that "guaranteed acceptance" as others have posted means you get an interview if you have above a B average in the IMS program.
 
Wow! Some of your responses have been very NICE! especially from "group_theory" and sideways"! Hmm... What made you so unhappy that such attitude reflects in the way you answered me? I'm also astonished that most of you who replied don't even know about this postbacc program, hence you've said things totally untrue about it.

@Moderators, please do me a favor and delete this thread!
 
Well... I guess if the Drexel program really guarantees admission, then do it. I know a few people that went there and I got good vibes from what they said about the school. If it's only guaranteeing an interview, NYCOM has to be a no brainer.
 
Sho said:
Wow! Some of your responses have been very NICE! especially from "group_theory" and sideways"! Hmm... What made you so unhappy that such attitude reflects in the way you answered me? I'm also astonished that most of you who replied don't even know about this postbacc program, hence you've said things totally untrue about it.

@Moderators, please do me a favor and delete this thread!
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And now he tells the mods how to do their jobs. Ugh. Go to Drexel so I don't have to deal with you in my class this coming August.
 
antapolar said:
👍

Yes, i've applied to drexel SMP before. It is not guarantee acceptance, just interview. Getting an interview does not = acceptance.

http://www.drexelmed.edu/Home/Acade...nterdepartmentalMedicalScienceIMSProgram.aspx

And you gotta be damn sure you can do well in those MS1 classes. It is a chance game. From your post, the specialty you want can be achieve by being a DO. Afterall, it is how hard you work that gets you there, not the medical school. Many foriegn countries does accept DO, perhaps check out which countries you are interested first and see their policy. Giving up an medical school acceptance is never a good thing. Think long and hard before you make this decision.
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http://www.drexelmed.edu/Home/AcademicPrograms/ProfessionalStudiesintheHealthSciences/Programs/InterdepartmentalMedicalScienceIMSProgram.aspx

I don't know, did I provided the wrong info anywhere? Why do i have to quote myself? it clearly says guarantee interview...sigh.

Yeah some answer can be bias here, but it'd be biased the other ways too to if you post in pre-allo. The truth is, you'd probably have to deal with explaining withdrawing from an acceptance later on, provided if you do make it somewhere again. So ppl's comment aren't harsh at all, just maybe a bit more realistic then you want. If I made into a med and can be a physician, I'd treasure it as the best present ever. But if you truely just want a "MD"...then no point asking for advice here right? Go with SMP, don't need to dwell on the DO acceptance.
 
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Well he is somewhat right. A lot of foreign countries dont recognize the DO degree....even our well liked neighbors to the north. He might be alluding to the fact that some residencies are still bent toward allopaths.
 
wiiturtledove said:
Well he is somewhat right. A lot of foreign countries dont recognize the DO degree....even our well liked neighbors to the north. He might be alluding to the fact that some residencies are still bent toward allopaths.
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Why do you feel the need to make statements of fact on things you clearly don't know about? Please entertain the forum and make a list of the countries that accept US MDs and don't accept US DOs. You may learn something in the process.
 
wiiturtledove said:
Well he is somewhat right. A lot of foreign countries dont recognize the DO degree....even our well liked neighbors to the north. He might be alluding to the fact that some residencies are still bent toward allopaths.
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If you read the FAQ you will see that you are wrong in regard to Canada.
 
Argentina 1994 Unlimited. Full license granted to US-trained D.O.
Australia 2000 Restricted. Varies by state.
Austria 1994 Unlimited. Hospital must have position unable to be filled by Austrian physician.
Bahamas 1997 Unlimited. US license recognized.
Bolivia 1988 Unknown. No response from embassy.
Brazil 2000 Unlimited. Completion of Brazilian board exam & some training in Brazilian hospital is required.
Canada (varies by province)
Alberta Unlimited. LMCC, Step 1&2 required
British Columbia Unlimited. LMCC required
Manitoba Unlimited. US license recognized.
New Brunswick Unlimited. LMCC required, except DOs registered in Maine
Newfoundland Pending. Currently under review.
NW Territories Unlimited. US license recognized.
Nova Scotia Unlimited. Only D.O.s from ACGME (US or Canadian) residency.
Ontario Unlimited. Only D.O.s from ACGME residency.
Prince Edward I. Restricted. No provision for US D.O.
Quebec Unlimited. 1 year GME in Quebec & French fluency required.
Saskatchewan Limited. OMM only.
Yukon Territory Unlimited. US license recognized.
Cayman Islands (UK) 1983 Unlimited. US license recognized.
Chile 1993. Unlimited. A written exam, in Spanish, is required.
China 1994 Unlimited. US-DOs are permitted to apply for "Short Term Medical Practice" only.
Costa Rica 1993 Unlimited. Several requirements. (Same as for any foreign MD.)
Denmark 1995 Unknown. No response from embassy.
Dominican Republic 2000 Unlimited. US license recognized.
Ecuador Unlimited. Several. Same as for any foreign MD.
Finland 1996 Unlimited. Several. Same as for any foreign MD.
France 1988 Restricted. OMM only. French government does not recognize osteopathic medicine.
Germany 1993 Unlimited. No special requirements. Decisions made on individual basis.
Greece 2004 Unlimited. Difficult. Greek citizenship required.
Hong Kong 1998 Unlimited. Written examination. Personal interview. Training approval.
India 1999 Undetermined. Indian nationality status required
Indonesia 1992 Unlimited. All foreign physicians affiliated with a University project or a mission have unlimited practice rights. No private practice allowed.
Ireland 1999 Under review. The Irish government has repeatedly declined to recognize US trained D.O.s as physicians. The American Osteopathic Association president has said that obtaining unlimited practice rights for US-trained D.O.s in Ireland is a top priority in 2007.[5]
Lebanon 2004 Unlimited. AOA letter required. Examination required.
New Zealand 2005 Unlimited. Hearing required. Case-by-case basis.
Nigeria 1999 Unlimited. An appearance before the Nigerian Medical Council & an oral quiz.
Singapore 1993 None. Singapore does not recognize US DO degree. Only recognizes US MD degree from 37 US conventional medical schools.[6]
Spain 1994 None. No medical practice rights.
Sweden 1996 Unlimited. US license recognized.
Taiwan 2005 Unlimited. The ROC government recognizes US D.O. degree. Applicants must take Taiwan Examination Yuan to obtain Taiwanese license.
United Kingdom 2005 Unlimited. US-trained DOs eligible for full medical practice rights. Applicants must pass the PLAB examination and work for one year in the National Health Service. Following that year, the applicants will be able to apply for a license to practice privately.

So besides France, Spain, and singapore, where are DOs restricted? Every other country is showing Unlimited practice rights
 
Go to Drexel so someone who truly wants to be a DO can take your spot at NYCOM
 
Several of my friends are in residencies at Johns Hopkins Internal medicine, Cardiology, and Anesthesiology, Cleveland clinic Internal medicine, and NYU neurosurgery, among many others (too many to list). The truth is DOs did have a stigma against them, but recently this is all changing. Admission standards have been moving up, and are almost equivalent, and may be equivalent within the next 8 years. Pre-meds really need to learn that this debate ends here in pre-med. Once you graduate nobody knows or cares what your degree is, they know you as physician.
 
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antapolar said:
Woah....where did this unfounded assumptions come from?

http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_eligibility_e.shtml

http://www.osteopathic.ca/reg.htm

Please read and educate yourself before making such ignorant statement.
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Don't wanna flare anything up again...Just point something out

Yes, canada accepts them on paper, but in reality a DO is on the same ground as an IMG in canadian match. And in canada that means you have a extremely slim chance of matching residency - basically wont happen unless you agree to work in rural areas - and in canada rural can be hours from civilization. It's a very tough road for DO's in canada lets put it that way - and there is a huge amount of stigmatism towards them.
 
NYDOC112 said:
I can also tell you that I graduated NYCOM and I am in an anesthesiology residency at a top 20 allopathic program. Several of my friends are in residencies at Johns Hopkins Internal medicine, Cardiology, and Anesthesiology, Cleveland clinic Internal medicine, and NYU neurosurgery, among many others (too many to list). Guess what people call me? Doctor. Guess where one of the Assistant Surgeon Generals of the US graduated from? NYCOM. Guess what my hospital ID says? Physician- Dept of Anesthesiology. The truth is DOs did have a stigma against them, but recently this is all changing. Admission standards have been moving up, and are almost equivalent, and may be equivalent within the next 8 years. Pre-meds really need to learn that this debate ends here in pre-med. Once you graduate nobody knows or cares what your degree is, they know you as physician.
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Did you graduate a bunch of years ago because there is no one from NYCOM in Johns Hopkins Osler program (ie IM at JHH) or in Cardiology at JHH or at NYU's Neurosurgery program.
 
NO, One friend is currently the intern of the year at Johns Hopkins in cardiology, another is starting JH Internal Medicine this July, and a few are already in Anesthesiology or are starting this July. Also being that the majority of these programs are unsearchable, and the only way you would be able to know the information is if you interviewed there, I would suggest you stop making things up...
 
NYDOC112 said:
NO, One friend is currently the intern of the year at Johns Hopkins in cardiology, another is starting JH Internal Medicine this July, and a few are already in Anesthesiology or are starting this July. Also being that the majority of these programs are unsearchable, and the only way you would be able to know the information is if you interviewed there, I would suggest you stop making things up...
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I did interview there. Second these places are very searchable.

Here are all the hopkins cardiology fellows. There is no one from NYCOM. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/experts/division_fellows/index.html

I also have the list of new (incoming) intern and old residents for JHH in front of me. There is one from NYMC but no one from NYCOM.

Here is NYU neurosurgery: http://www.med.nyu.edu/neurosurgery/education/current_residents.html. Again, no one from NYCOM.

Who is making things up now?
 
Instate: I agree that many of these places are searchable, But also to resolve this conflict I am an Intern at JH and my name is not on the list you provided. Either it hasn't been updated in some time, as many of my fellow interns are not listed on this website, or they do not list their interns. So both of you may be correct. NYDOC112 may certainly know Interns who are not listed, but you are correct that some residents are searchable, although many current Interns are not listed are not listed... ok can we end this now? Either way I can tell you from experience of working at JH, it is very DO friendly...
 
Sho said:
I'm looking for your advice on my situation: I've been accepted to NYCOM and interviewed for a postbacc program at Drexel that guarantees an acceptance to their medical class (as long as I maintain a 3.0 GPA). If the postbacc program ends up accepting me, I'm really not sure where I should go.

If I go for DO:
- I'll need to take both the COMLEX and USMLE later on because I want to get into a somewhat competitive residency such as anesthesiology or internal med.
- Foreign countries do not recognize the DO degree. At some point in my career, I'd like to participate in international medical missions and/or seek to gain more knowledge from foreign doctors.

If I go for Postbacc:
- I'll end up with an extra $50,000 of debt.
- I'll have to spend another year... But considering that I don't have strong MCAT scores (because I didn't grasp basic science concepts well enough in my undergrad years), I like to have an extra year to prepare me for M1 year and the board exams.
- Drexel is not a top-tier school, but still it's held to higher standards than AOA credited D.O. schools (yes/no?).

And I want to practice in the Northeast (NY, Boston, DC, NJ,...) after residency.
What do you all think?
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Do you want to be a doctor or some ***** still taking college classes? Go with DO and get over yourself. 🙄
 
ArkansasRanger said:
Do you want to be a doctor or some ***** still taking college classes? Go with DO and get over yourself. 🙄
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Youd think people would have that mentality.its hilarious. I had a few students in my grad program who couldnt (and still havent) been accepted to an MD program. They openly denounce DO schools.

One student litereally tried to get in after undergrad. Then he did a masters and was still rejected everywhere. Then he did a SMP and still was rejected. He would rather not be a doctor than go to a DO school. 😕😕
 
I agree with the above 2 post-go DO and be an awesome DO at that....ridiculous situation to be in if you decided to apply to DO programs (the average patient doesn't know the difference), which you shouldn't have done in the first place. Move on because it might be all downhill for here and u might never ever become a doctor, but if that what u really want....
 
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