DO or SMP?

[Jchambers48]

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Hello everyone,

My question today is whether I should be pursuing a Special Masters Program or going straight for DO school applications. My GPA is pretty bad (3.2 overall and about a 3.0 science GPA) and I have not taken the MCAT. Either way, the MCAT should be my priority and I plan on taking it before the end of the year. I was wondering if my GPA is high enough to even consider applying to a DO school, assuming I do really well on the MCAT and have a lot of extracurricular and shadowing experience on my application.

Either way, I wouldn’t be applying until next year. In my honest opinion, I think I should go SMP and then DO anyway (MD is still an option but idk if it’s a good option for me). The one beaming blemish on my transcript right now is a D in organic chemistry 2. I don’t really have a good excuse for it not that it would matter, but all of my other pre-reqs are Bs and above (mostly above). A second question, and feel free not bothering with this one I know it’s asking for a lot on one post, is if that grade is going to give me a hard time when it comes to applying to even the SMPs. Thanks guys in advanced, I’m excited to hear what you have to say.

 

[Jchambers48]

Update - ok so I’ve realized that the D in organic chem is going to stop me from getting into basically any post-undergrad programs. That being said, I’m going to have to retake it, but that can be done over the summer. Aside from that, what should be my plan moving forward? I’ve also started looking into LECOM as a post-bacc DO program and I think that is a valid option (once I fix the organic chemistry grade). Thoughts?

 

[Corgilover419]

KCU also has a great smp program as well as a solid DO school but I’m biased. You’d have to really crush the MCAT to get in to a DO school so I’d say smp is the best idea. If you retake ochem will that D be replaced on your transcript? Because it seems like it’s bringing your science gpa way down if that’s your only bad science grade.

 

[kubyx]

Hard to answer because you're only giving us one aspect of your application in what is otherwise a multidimensional process.

That GPA alone won't stop you from getting into some DO programs. The bar to get into DO is truthfully not terribly high, though it appears to be getting more competitive every year. However, it's kind of a pointless mental masturbation situation to sit around pondering whether or not you could get in without knowing what your MCAT is, what your ECs are, etc.

You'll probably need to retake OchemII, as you mentioned in your second post, as many schools require a C or higher for pre-reqs. I don't personally think you need to take an SMP if you can achieve a competitive MCAT of ~505+, have well-rounded ECs, and can tell an interesting story about why you want to become a doctor. You will likely be limiting yourself to newer/less established schools, though. If you're deficient in any of those other areas, or want to be competitive across the spectrum of schools, an SMP might be a good idea.

 

[Jchambers48]

KCU also has a great smp program as well as a solid DO school but I’m biased. You’d have to really crush the MCAT to get in to a DO school so I’d say smp is the best idea. If you retake ochem will that D be replaced on your transcript? Because it seems like it’s bringing your science gpa way down if that’s your only bad science grade.

It’s not making as big of an impact on my GPA as you would think, I’ve done the calculation and it would only bring it up 0.01-0.02 points if even. Regardless, I’m going to have to retake it because from what I’ve seen, SMPs, Post-Baccs and even DO/MD schools require at least a C in prereqs classes for acceptance.

I’ll definitely check out KCU and see what they have to offer. What do/did you like about it, or why do you consider yourself biased?

That’s also what I figured about the MCAT, not only that but the rest of my application would have to be well above average for them to even consider offering an interview to a DO school. I’d then have to crush that to even have a chance at being accepted. Again, regardless I’d like to do as well as I can on the MCAT seeing as how it’ll be required no matter what I do. I agree that some sort of post-bacc/smp is my best option at this point, it’ll give me the time to juice up my application and take my time to study properly for the MCAT.

 

[Jchambers48]

Hard to answer because you're only giving us one aspect of your application in what is otherwise a multidimensional process.

That GPA alone won't stop you from getting into some DO programs. The bar to get into DO is truthfully not terribly high, though it appears to be getting more competitive every year. However, it's kind of a pointless mental masturbation situation to sit around pondering whether or not you could get in without knowing what your MCAT is, what your ECs are, etc.

You'll probably need to retake OchemII, as you mentioned in your second post, as many schools require a C or higher for pre-reqs. I don't personally think you need to take an SMP if you can achieve a competitive MCAT of ~505+, have well-rounded ECs, and can tell an interesting story about why you want to become a doctor. You will likely be limiting yourself to newer/less established schools, though. If you're deficient in any of those other areas, or want to be competitive across the spectrum of schools, an SMP might be a good idea.

Thanks for the response. I think right now I am deficient in almost all aspects of my application, but that’s why I’m pushing the MCAT off until September (the latest date from what I’ve seen online) of this year. I’m going to try to bust my ass until then to beef everything up and make it as competitive as possible. Do you think I should focus my time on preparing to apply to DO school or to a SMP? I’m trying to figure out where I want to funnel my focus because I think that’s the best approach for something like this, dedicating as much time as I possibly can to whichever I decide to do instead of bouncing between the two.

Ideally I’d like to apply next year, so matriculating in 2020, to either an a SMP or a DO school if possible. I’m not entirely sure what deadlines look like for applications for either but I don’t think it’s realistic to get it all done by the end of the deadline this year (matriculating in 2019) if my MCAT isn’t until September. I mean, if it is that’ll be great but I’ll have to research that a little bit more.

 

[Jchambers48]

Thanks for the response. I think right now I am deficient in almost all aspects of my application, but that’s why I’m pushing the MCAT off until September (the latest date from what I’ve seen online) of this year. I’m going to try to bust my ass until then to beef everything up and make it as competitive as possible. Do you think I should focus my time on preparing to apply to DO school or to a SMP? I’m trying to figure out where I want to funnel my focus because I think that’s the best approach for something like this, dedicating as much time as I possibly can to whichever I decide to do instead of bouncing between the two.

Ideally I’d like to apply next year, so matriculating in 2020, to either an a SMP or a DO school if possible. I’m not entirely sure what deadlines look like for applications for either but I don’t think it’s realistic to get it all done by the end of the deadline this year (matriculating in 2019) if my MCAT isn’t until September. I mean, if it is that’ll be great but I’ll have to research that a little bit more.

So I looked into LECOMs application dates and applications are due August 1st every year for matriculation that following September. LECOM also doesn’t require the MCAT for acceptance (they calculate a score based on your high school SATs) so I wouldn’t necessarily have to do it before applying. If I retake ochem 2 this summer, I could theoretically apply to the program as early as this year. It’s a year long program that also assists in applications to the school’s DO program the following year. Is it realistic to pursue this program, keeping the MCAT date in September, and following their plan? Or would you, or anyone else who wants to chop in, recommend waiting it out and applying straight to DO school next year after juicing up my application?

 

[kubyx]

Thanks for the response. I think right now I am deficient in almost all aspects of my application, but that’s why I’m pushing the MCAT off until September (the latest date from what I’ve seen online) of this year. I’m going to try to bust my ass until then to beef everything up and make it as competitive as possible. Do you think I should focus my time on preparing to apply to DO school or to a SMP? I’m trying to figure out where I want to funnel my focus because I think that’s the best approach for something like this, dedicating as much time as I possibly can to whichever I decide to do instead of bouncing between the two.

Ideally I’d like to apply next year, so matriculating in 2020, to either an a SMP or a DO school if possible. I’m not entirely sure what deadlines look like for applications for either but I don’t think it’s realistic to get it all done by the end of the deadline this year (matriculating in 2019) if my MCAT isn’t until September. I mean, if it is that’ll be great but I’ll have to research that a little bit more.

My biggest regret so far was applying before I was ready. I really shot myself in the foot and I'm pretty certain applying too early really killed my chances at MD. Reapplicants are not viewed highly in the medical world as I have found. So, figure out what you need to do to make yourself competitive (GPA, MCAT, ECs), and then apply when they are ready. Don't set up artificial time constraints and apply next year just because you feel like that's when you should apply, do it when your app is ready.

As for applying to DO, I view it as something you should do when the MD route has failed. I'm matriculating at KCU this summer and I'm happy they have given me a shot at being a doctor, but I can't deny that it's a little saddening to me that I will bust my ass in medical school, only to never be given the same opportunities as my MD colleagues. You give up opportunities by going this route. So, knowing that, only you can decide if DO is what you want to do (and it's a perfectly fine route to becoming a doctor), or if you want to try for the SMP and attempt MD. With a 3.2 undergrad, though, you would really have to murder everything else to have a shot at MD. If I were in your shoes, I would personally retake OChem, study my ass off for the MCAT, get some quality volunteering in, and then aim for applying in 2019 (DO with a hope and a prayer at state MD). If your entire app is deficient, as you said, you really should not apply this summer. Just my $0.02. Good luck, this entire process is a crapshoot in the end.

 

[Jchambers48]

My biggest regret so far was applying before I was ready. I really shot myself in the foot and I'm pretty certain applying too early really killed my chances at MD. Reapplicants are not viewed highly in the medical world as I have found. So, figure out what you need to do to make yourself competitive (GPA, MCAT, ECs), and then apply when they are ready. Don't set up artificial time constraints and apply next year just because you feel like that's when you should apply, do it when your app is ready.

As for applying to DO, I view it as something you should do when the MD route has failed. I'm matriculating at KCU this summer and I'm happy they have given me a shot at being a doctor, but I can't deny that it's a little saddening to me that I will bust my ass in medical school, only to never be given the same opportunities as my MD colleagues. You give up opportunities by going this route. So, knowing that, only you can decide if DO is what you want to do (and it's a perfectly fine route to becoming a doctor), or if you want to try for the SMP and attempt MD. With a 3.2 undergrad, though, you would really have to murder everything else to have a shot at MD. If I were in your shoes, I would personally retake OChem, study my ass off for the MCAT, get some quality volunteering in, and then aim for applying in 2019 (DO with a hope and a prayer at state MD). If your entire app is deficient, as you said, you really should not apply this summer. Just my $0.02. Good luck, this entire process is a crapshoot in the end.

I agree with most of the stuff you said but not all of it. I really like what you’d said about artificial time constraints because it’s been one of my biggest problems - trying to get everything done as soon as possible. I also agree that the MD route for me at this point is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible so I’m trying to not spend much brain power on it. With that being said, I don’t think I should go for it because of what you mentioned originally, reapplicants probably have a hard time in following application pools.

I disagree with your idea that DOs should only be considered when the MD route fails. I think I’m in a position where the MD route just isn’t realistic for me or more properly put, not realistic without several years of “rehab” if you will of my current application. I’m not extremely concerned about where I’ll be in terms of a medical heirarchy if I instead go the DO route especially if it’ll get me to the end goal of being a doctor compared to chasing the what seems like impossible dream of being an MD.

Do you recommend skipping the whole Post-bacc/smp process altogether and going for a DO school directly? I think it’s definitely a possibility and does have the potential for success but it seems like an all-or-nothing move, almost like a kamakazi. With that being said, it’s doable but I guess I’m more curious at the potential for success when compared to a less direct route. But like I said, it’s not completely unrealistic for it to be successful which is why I’m still having a hard time deciding between the two options.

 

[kubyx]

I agree with most of the stuff you said but not all of it. I really like what you’d said about artificial time constraints because it’s been one of my biggest problems - trying to get everything done as soon as possible. I also agree that the MD route for me at this point is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible so I’m trying to not spend much brain power on it. With that being said, I don’t think I should go for it because of what you mentioned originally, reapplicants probably have a hard time in following application pools.

I disagree with your idea that DOs should only be considered when the MD route fails. I think I’m in a position where the MD route just isn’t realistic for me or more properly put, not realistic without several years of “rehab” if you will of my current application. I’m not extremely concerned about where I’ll be in terms of a medical heirarchy if I instead go the DO route especially if it’ll get me to the end goal of being a doctor compared to chasing the what seems like impossible dream of being an MD.

Do you recommend skipping the whole Post-bacc/smp process altogether and going for a DO school directly? I think it’s definitely a possibility and does have the potential for success but it seems like an all-or-nothing move, almost like a kamakazi. With that being said, it’s doable but I guess I’m more curious at the potential for success when compared to a less direct route. But like I said, it’s not completely unrealistic for it to be successful which is why I’m still having a hard time deciding between the two options.

I think we're saying the same thing about the DO route, personally. I'm saying in your current situation, you have failed the MD route, and DO is your option now. You're saying it "isn't realistic". Same thing IMO, but suit yourself. DO is added hurdles for fewer opportunities. I don't know about you, but I have never been inclined to do more in order to receive less, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

And like I said in my previous post, this is all mental masturbation. No one can really give you any advice because you're only giving us 20% of the information. I think what you're really asking if you can get into DO with a 3.2/3.0, and the answer is yes, you can. Many people have done it, but it will take some redeeming qualities to make it happen. As it stands, your GPA alone is a neutral mark at best, likely a negative component to your application, and you'll need to bone up on everything else to stand out. No one can tell you to apply or wait because it depends on what you want, and what you're able to accomplish on the MCAT, ecs., etc. Good luck

 

[Jchambers48]

I think we're saying the same thing about the DO route, personally. I'm saying in your current situation, you have failed the MD route, and DO is your option now. You're saying it "isn't realistic". Same thing IMO, but suit yourself. DO is added hurdles for fewer opportunities. I don't know about you, but I have never been inclined to do more in order to receive less, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

And like I said in my previous post, this is all mental masturbation. No one can really give you any advice because you're only giving us 20% of the information. I think what you're really asking if you can get into DO with a 3.2/3.0, and the answer is yes, you can. Many people have done it, but it will take some redeeming qualities to make it happen. As it stands, your GPA alone is a neutral mark at best, likely a negative component to your application, and you'll need to bone up on everything else to stand out. No one can tell you to apply or wait because it depends on what you want, and what you're able to accomplish on the MCAT, ecs., etc. Good luck

Yea you’re right, especially about the DO route for me at this point. The reason I’ve included only my GPA is because it’s the only tangible source of stats for me at this time. I have lab work, volunteer work, shadowing time etc, but I figured what I did and got from it so far was all subjective and most of you guys don’t care about it but again, you’re right it’s all important when considering my overall application. All of that could honestly use more work as well and I’m open to suggestions for the best use of time when considering ECs moving forward.

Similarly with the MCAT, I can say I’m doing what I can to prepare for it but that’s also subjective and probably isn’t going to do you guys any good to hear. The goal is to do as well as possible but I can’t give a solid number until after I take it.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the GPA thing and that was my biggest question because imo it’s my weakest area right now and hardest to fix. I guess I just wanted some sort of confirmation that I wasn’t completely screwed because of it.

 

[Goro]

Hello everyone,

My question today is whether I should be pursuing a Special Masters Program or going straight for DO school applications. My GPA is pretty bad (3.2 overall and about a 3.0 science GPA) and I have not taken the MCAT. Either way, the MCAT should be my priority and I plan on taking it before the end of the year. I was wondering if my GPA is high enough to even consider applying to a DO school, assuming I do really well on the MCAT and have a lot of extracurricular and shadowing experience on my application.

Either way, I wouldn’t be applying until next year. In my honest opinion, I think I should go SMP and then DO anyway (MD is still an option but idk if it’s a good option for me). The one beaming blemish on my transcript right now is a D in organic chemistry 2. I don’t really have a good excuse for it not that it would matter, but all of my other pre-reqs are Bs and above (mostly above). A second question, and feel free not bothering with this one I know it’s asking for a lot on one post, is if that grade is going to give me a hard time when it comes to applying to even the SMPs. Thanks guys in advanced, I’m excited to hear what you have to say.

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

I suggest not applying DO right away, because your sGPA will limit you. Better to see if you can actually handle med school first. If you do reinvent yourself, all DO schools will be doable, and a number of MD as well with a good MCAT score (513+)

 

[Jchambers48]

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

I suggest not applying DO right away, because your sGPA will limit you. Better to see if you can actually handle med school first. If you do reinvent yourself, all DO schools will be doable, and a number of MD as well with a good MCAT score (513+)

Thanks for the reply and an awesome thread. Helped a lot!

 

[eberge3]

If you do SMP pay $$$ work very hard and not end up getting into a MD school will you regret your decision to not apply into DO right away? Do both

 

[I'mJustCurious]

We are pretty much in the same situation in terms of trying to do an SMP program in the fall and applying next summer. Heads up, most SMP programs will want an MCAT or GRE score and have deadlines June/July, some even earlier.