Do Pharm Residency Programs Look Down on 3-Year Schools?

[slatenator]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I am considering going to a 3-year pharmacy program and had seen on some posts that some people believe residency programs will not look as favorably on these people versus more traditional 4-year pharmacy programs. Of course, this could also be because most 3 year programs are new and not as established (and not the actual duration of the program).

I've been accepted to Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine (Erie) and am interviewing at another 3 year program, Pacific University, in Oregon. Neither one is a very prestigious school but I'm 29 y.o. and consider it very important to be out an extra year early. I also have a Master of Public Health Degree which I hope will make me more competitive if I choose to do a residency.

Does anyone have any evidence that would give further credence to claims that 3-year programs have a poor track record of getting people accepted to residencies? I'm a little bit older and have seen the "big picture" of life and academia now and don't know if I believe 20 year old undergraduate's postings about one's life and career ambitions determinately shifted in one direction or another based on the institution they choose.

 

[PharmBoy8]

I see no reason why a 3-year program would be looked down apon. Its the same amount of material just squeezed together. Heck, I would think it is impressive that you can handle that mush school work for so long. I would miss my summer "break".

 

[rxlea]

...unless the school is Pass/Fail...then there is no way to gauge your performance against students from a program with a traditional grade scale.

The topic of "does where you go to school matter for residency" has been discussed so much on this forum. Just use the search button up there ^^

 

[slatenator]

Huh, for the record I did try to search for this topic but couldn't find anything. I'll try again. I'd only seen it mentioned in the thread for one of the 3-year programs that I'm considering.

This leads into another important question -- Should you go to the most academically competitive/prestigious pharmacy school you can get into if you are trying to get a residency?

If it is high marks at Pharmacy school that you need to get a residency (besides NAPLEX scores) and institution doesn't matter quite as much, this is analogous to the situation that we as "pre-health sciences" students faced when we chose a specific undergraduate institution out of numerous choices. Should you go to the most competitive/prestigous institution you can possibly get into that may cause you to get lower grades or should you choose a less competitive school where you will likely stick out among the competition? From my experiences at undergrad, the most prestigious/competitive institution I went to was filled with lots of cut throat people and professors who were not friendly and were not likely to support me in future endeavours. On the other hand, the least competitive institution was totally laid back and all of the professors were willing to bend over backwards to help me because I stuck out like a "gem in the rough". I was just average at the other school. Many undergrads that went to the less prestigious institution got into way better grad schools than the students at the harder school, even if they initially started out with way lower SAT scores. Not saying every situation is black or white like this but this is the general trend I saw throughout undergrad studies. Who knows if this template will be similar to pharmacy schools but at least I know that there is always some "game" into getting where you want to be in life besides just honest hard work. Sad but true.

 

[Passion4Sci]

The best anyone can do is give you anecdote, so here's mine: I volunteer at a really big hospital with 2 pharmacies, and the residencies consider grades, but the biggest criterion I've been able to piece together is actually inter-personal skills.

Sure, grades matter, but if you're in pharmacy school and not failing, the tacit assumption is that you're capable academically, so the only other metric will be personality and your "bedside manner."

We have residents from UCSD, UCSF, UoP, Touro and USN (And we have contracts with 7 other schools that, for right now, are not sending us residents... maybe in May when we get our new infusion).

 

[slatenator]

Refreshing to hear from one person that they look at many things. I feel like my undergraduate experience from a massive 30 thousand plus student, state institution where I was literally just a number had temporarily turned me into a conniving, cut throat person always looking for a way to beat the next 100 people for this spot or that spot by getting every little advantage possible. This is the only reason why I'm already worrying about getting a residency spot. If I could do it all over again from undergrad, I would've gone to an extremely small, personable school. Hopefully, my experience in Pharm school will be one of the "small, personable school".

 

[Passion4Sci]

Won't really make a difference man. Your personal ability during interviews will be more important than the name of your school. The ONLY caveat to bear in mind, though, is that not every school has "contracts" with desirable places to work.

Our hospital pays its residents an annual salary of $63,000, which for the Bay Area, is very low... but the experience working under 11 Staff and ClinPharms is, I'm sure, completely invaluable.

Plus you can get their tutelage as you prepare for your CPJE/MPJE and NAPLEX.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

I think $40,000 is the pharm. resident salary here. That's not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but it's actually good pay here in Arkansas.

On the premed boards they talk about the pitiful pay medical residents make. Here an FP resident at an AHEC makes around 43-46k (I forget which I read), and that's good money in most of AR. Granted, most Arkansans don't have medical or pharmacy school tuition debt, but still...good $$ here.

No complaints.

 

[MissDisco]

I am considering going to a 3-year pharmacy program and had seen on some posts that some people believe residency programs will not look as favorably on these people versus more traditional 4-year pharmacy programs. Of course, this could also be because most 3 year programs are new and not as established (and not the actual duration of the program).

I've been accepted to Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine (Erie) and am interviewing at another 3 year program, Pacific University, in Oregon. Neither one is a very prestigious school but I'm 29 y.o. and consider it very important to be out an extra year early. I also have a Master of Public Health Degree which I hope will make me more competitive if I choose to do a residency.

Does anyone have any evidence that would give further credence to claims that 3-year programs have a poor track record of getting people accepted to residencies? I'm a little bit older and have seen the "big picture" of life and academia now and don't know if I believe 20 year old undergraduate's postings about one's life and career ambitions determinately shifted in one direction or another based on the institution they choose.

I am in a similar position and wondering the exact same thing. Has Slatenator or anyone else any new opinions to add to this thread a year later? I do not know enough about the field of pharmacy to know how important (if at all) prestige/reputation is. I am most interested in translational research and regulatory work understand that I will need to complete residency/fellowship. I don't think rankings by US News and World Report or other similar lists provide much help when choosing a pharmacy school. Help please and thanks!

 

[VeraShield]

Won't really make a difference man. Your personal ability during interviews will be more important than the name of your school. The ONLY caveat to bear in mind, though, is that not every school has "contracts" with desirable places to work.

Our hospital pays its residents an annual salary of $63,000, which for the Bay Area, is very low... but the experience working under 11 Staff and ClinPharms is, I'm sure, completely invaluable.

Plus you can get their tutelage as you prepare for your CPJE/MPJE and NAPLEX.

Are you kidding me? $63,000 is incredibly high for anywhere.
UCSF only pays $42,000, with the majority of the programs in SF around the same ($36,000-50000ish).

Residency salary generally doesn't seem to scale with cost of living for the most part.

As for the original question. I don't think prestige matters much in pharmacy as it does in other fields. But you do need to be able to present yourself in a fashion that will land you interview invites. Solid grades, some good EC (depth, not number), research if possible, strong rotations, and good LoRs.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Are you kidding me? $63,000 is incredibly high for anywhere.

$63k is low, in terms of cost-of-living, not that it's low relative to other salaries. $63,000 will get you much farther in Omaha, NE than it will in Oakland, and that was my point.

Residency salary generally doesn't seem to scale with cost of living for the most part.

We agree with each other.

 

[Praziquantel86]

A couple of points to consider:

As RxLea mentioned, a pass/fail school really creates a disadvantage for their students as they apply for residency. Programs have no way to judge the intelligence of the student, and while GPA may not be the most important determinant in a residency, not having one certainly doesn't help.

Another big point to consider is the difficulty of getting and maintaining an internship. A lot of programs look to prior work experience (some will exclude candidates if they don't have any), and at a 3-year school, you're pretty much out of luck. Even if you work weekends, it's unlikely you'll have interaction with the people who would write you a strong letter of recommendation. This also is an issue when you're looking for licensure in a state that requires intern hours above and beyond those that are part of the curriculum (Pennsylvania included).

Your MPH will certainly help, especially if you actively use it during your time as a student. Look to get involved in some epidemiological research or run statistics for projects people might have going on. I guarantee you'll know more about those two topics than most of the faculty members at whatever school you end up at.