DO programs

[wjs010]

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any really good DO Derm programs? I'm assuming since I'll be going to DO school that if I want Derm, I'll have to pursue an AOA residency

 

[asmallchild]

any really good DO Derm programs? I'm assuming since I'll be going to DO school that if I want Derm, I'll have to pursue an AOA residency

I can't comment on DO programs but yes, in all likelihood, you'll have to pursue an AOA residency. You'll hear of DOs attaining MD residency positions in dermatology but those are rare cases

 

[Dral]

A really good program is the program that one can get into...

 

[didja]

Not trying to be a hater but having practiced in many areas of the country most DO programs are weak on inpatient and complex medical derm (actually so are many MD programs for that matter). I also think most DO programs use their residents as cheap labor, much like large practices use NPs and PAs. This means if you are successful getting a DO spot you need to do your best compensating for what you are going to miss to the extent possible.

 

[dermathalon]

Not trying to be a hater but having practiced in many areas of the country most DO programs are weak on inpatient and complex medical derm (actually so are many MD programs for that matter). I also think most DO programs use their residents as cheap labor, much like large practices use NPs and PAs. This means if you are successful getting a DO spot you need to do your best compensating for what you are going to miss to the extent possible.

Not sure of your point. Most, not just many, MD programs are weak on inpatient and complex medical derm and most derm residents don't care since this is not going to be there practice model. I do agree it needs to be learned well but I think most derm programs in general look at inpatient as a revenue buster from outpatient, which is unfortunate in my personal opinion. We are all cheap labor in residency. We all need to compensate on what we will be missing.

 

[reno911]

Not sure of your point. Most, not just many, MD programs are weak on inpatient and complex medical derm and most derm residents don't care since this is not going to be there practice model. I do agree it needs to be learned well but I think most derm programs in general look at inpatient as a revenue buster from outpatient, which is unfortunate in my personal opinion. We are all cheap labor in residency. We all need to compensate on what we will be missing.

There are levels of weak though. I'd guess that even the weak MD programs in complex medical derm are still stronger than most DO programs.

 

[didja]

Not sure of your point. Most, not just many, MD programs are weak o. npatient and complex medical derm and most derm residents don't care since this is not going to be there practice model. I do agree it needs to be learned well but I think most derm programs in general look at inpatient as a revenue buster from outpatient, which is unfortunate in my personal opinion. We are all cheap labor in residency. We all need to compensate on what we will be missing.

Not sure if you see my point? Sounds like you agree with my points actually.

I don't think many MD programs have Saturday clinic hours or pimp out their residents to multiple private clinics like several of the do programs I have seen. They generally have few or no academic faculty either. Again, not trying to be a do hater, especially since I'm admitting they often need to work harder in their residencies than most MD programs, just giving my perspective.

 

[dermathalon]

No. I don't agree with you. You said, "This means if you are successful getting a DO spot you need to do your best compensating for what you are going to miss to the extent possible." I said that this is across the board for both MD and DO programs. Allopathic derm training does not have much private practice exposure (since most - not all- are in academic settings), so you may need to compensate for that. If you think "many MD" programs are weak complex derm as well, then why single out the DOs.

We have several DOs in our area that are excellent as inpatient doctors (internists) and several DO derms that are excellent at complex medical derm when we have society meetings for discussion.

You are saying that DOs work harder, yet they are needing to compensate. That's why I'm saying that I'm not sure I get your point.

 

[didja]

No. I don't agree with you. You said, "This means if you are successful getting a DO spot you need to do your best compensating for what you are going to miss to the extent possible." I said that this is across the board for both MD and DO programs. Allopathic derm training does not have much private practice exposure (since most - not all- are in academic settings), so you may need to compensate for that. If you think "many MD" programs are weak complex derm as well, then why single out the DOs.

We have several DOs in our area that are excellent as inpatient doctors (internists) and several DO derms that are excellent at complex medical derm when we have society meetings for discussion.

You are saying that DOs work harder, yet they are needing to compensate. That's why I'm saying that I'm not sure I get your point.

OK, then let me turn it around since I tried to answer the op's original question based on having worked with and talked to residents at several do programs in several areas of the country. Which do programs should the do bound med student who started this thread try to match into? Which are the strong programs that won't treat their residents like slaves and will still expose them to comprehensively strong dermatology training with a faculty of local and national dermatology experts?

Another factor is that many of these programs are very small, often 1 resident a year, which I think makes it a more difficult residency when you don't have peers at your level of training.

 

[dermathalon]

Just to clarify: so your answer to the OP's question is that there are no good osteopathic dermatology residency programs in the country based on your response.

To the OP, just PM me and I'll give you contacts for excellent osteopathic trained dermatologists and medical students that went to osteopathic medical schools and then went on to ALLOPATHIC residencies and did just fine. It's a much much tougher route to apply to allopathic residency and you need a bit of luck to make it through coming from osteopathic residencies. They can give you advice on the best osteopathic derm residencies to think about as they are clearly excellent physicians so they must have had good training. I do agree with didja that you are going to find a full range of quality in residencies but maybe you should get the advice from an osteopathic derm rather than one of us.

 

[didja]

Just to clarify: so your answer to the OP's question is that there are no good osteopathic dermatology residency programs in the country based on your response.

To the OP, just PM me and I'll give you contacts for excellent osteopathic trained dermatologists and medical students that went to osteopathic medical schools and then went on to ALLOPATHIC residencies and did just fine. It's a much much tougher route to apply to allopathic residency and you need a bit of luck to make it through coming from osteopathic residencies. They can give you advice on the best osteopathic derm residencies to think about as they are clearly excellent physicians so they must have had good training. I do agree with didja that you are going to find a full range of quality in residencies but maybe you should get the advice from an osteopathic derm rather than one of us.

Nope, not saying there are no good programs in the whole country just the several areas I have lived in.

As recently as 4 years ago there were do programs that dramatically underpaid their residents (not sure if it's still the case, maybe someone can confirm).

 

[asmallchild]

Nope, not saying there are no good programs in the whole country just the several areas I have lived in.

As recently as 4 years ago there were do programs that dramatically underpaid their residents (not sure if it's still the case, maybe someone can confirm).

I'm not a DO but have worked closely with a few DO programs. Those without full funding do grossly underpay their residents to the point where most if not all of the residents end up having to moonlight (and I've seen some very odd arrangements. Everything from urgent care to cosmetic work on the side)

 

[techiewizz]

How does the match work for DOS? can they first try to match acgme derm during their 4th year, and if they don't, they can still try to match aoa derm during their intern year right?

also, about the aoa match: since dos match during intern year, Do they start pgy 2 right after their intern year? Meaning, they don't have to just 'hang around' for a year while trying to match, right?