DO residency question??

[Niklilly]

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I am premed and want to go specifically to a DO school. But the only thing that I am concerned about or at least confused about is can DO's do their residency at the same schools as MD's??
Thanks😕

 

[spicedmanna]

I am premed and want to go specifically to a DO school. But the only thing that I am concerned about or at least confused about is can DO's do their residency at the same schools as MD's??
Thanks😕

DO's have their own residency programs, but MD residency programs are also available for DO's. You can apply to both as a DO. However, the DO match precedes the MD match and you get automatically bumped from the MD match should you match DO. You can work around that logistic. Right now the trend is towards DO's choosing MD residency programs, for better or worse. Also, there are dually-accredited programs. Keep in mind that there are some things that can be done which may improve chances with the MD match, such as taking the USMLE Step 1 in addition to the COMLEX and wowing the program during your audition rotation, but this depends on the individual program.

 

[Niklilly]

Ok thanks!!!

 

[Pisiform]

DO's have their own residency programs, but MD residency programs are also available for DO's. You can apply to both as a DO. However, the DO match precedes the MD match and you get automatically bumped from the MD match should you match DO. You can work around that logistic. Right now the trend is towards DO's choosing MD residency programs, for better or worse. Also, there are dually-accredited programs. Keep in mind that there are some things that can be done which may improve chances with the MD match, such as taking the USMLE Step 1 in addition to the COMLEX and wowing the program during your audition rotation, but this depends on the individual program.

Hey I am a bit confused. If DOs apply to purely ACGME residency, do they need to take USMLE too or they can apply with only COMLEX score too.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Hey I am a bit confused. If DOs apply to purely ACGME residency, do they need to take USMLE too or they can apply with only COMLEX score too.

It depends on the specialty and the program you're applying too. This is a bridge to cross in the future as you probably don't know what specialty let alone what program you'll want when it comes time to select.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

DO's have their own residency programs, but MD residency programs are also available for DO's. You can apply to both as a DO. However, the DO match precedes the MD match and you get automatically bumped from the MD match should you match DO. You can work around that logistic. Right now the trend is towards DO's choosing MD residency programs, for better or worse. Also, there are dually-accredited programs. Keep in mind that there are some things that can be done which may improve chances with the MD match, such as taking the USMLE Step 1 in addition to the COMLEX and wowing the program during your audition rotation, but this depends on the individual program.

how so?

 

[FutureCTDoc]

how so?

The AOA match, the DO match that is, occurs mid-february, the ACGME in early march so if you match in the AOA you're automatically withdrawn from the ACGME.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

I understand that, but spicedmanna seemed to imply that you could "work around that" as in beat the system. I understand that if you want DO, go DO....but what if you really wanted a competitive field that you did not get DO, would there be a way to get them MD?

Sorry that might have been confusing.
Example :
Im very interested in either a combined EM/IM residency or EM/FM residency. there are only a handful of those in the country.

I go through AOA and dont get into any of them. Could i still apply for the ACGME ones? And for that matter should i apply to other AOA specialties (seperate EM) just in case i dont match EM/IM or EM/FM? What if i dont match what i want, but still get an EM or something. I cant go into the ACGME match cause its a binding contract right?

Ha, i think thats enough questions for now lol

 

[FutureCTDoc]

I understand that, but spicedmanna seemed to imply that you could "work around that" as in beat the system. I understand that if you want DO, go DO....but what if you really wanted a competitive field that you did not get DO, would there be a way to get them MD?

Sorry that might have been confusing.
Example :
Im very interested in either a combined EM/IM residency or EM/FM residency. there are only a handful of those in the country.

I go through AOA and dont get into any of them. Could i still apply for the ACGME ones? And for that matter should i apply to other AOA specialties (seperate EM) just in case i dont match EM/IM or EM/FM? What if i dont match what i want, but still get an EM or something. I cant go into the ACGME match cause its a binding contract right?

Ha, i think thats enough questions for now lol

You would apply to both AOA and ACGME out of the gate because you need the time to interview at programs and there is only a 2 or 3 week gap between AOA and ACGME matches. If you apply and get EM or IM in the AOA it is a binding contract.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

So if i apply to both out of the gate and interview for them, am i supposed to be getting a feel for how competitive i might be there? Can i withdraw from the AOA match before i rank my residencies if i dont feel competitive for any of them?

 

[FutureCTDoc]

So if i apply to both out of the gate and interview for them, am i supposed to be getting a feel for how competitive i might be there? Can i withdraw from the AOA match before i rank my residencies if i dont feel competitive for any of them?

Yes, you can apply to both and you will find out how competitive you are based off of the number of interviews. If you're not competitive for AOA you are certainly not competitive for ACGME residencies.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

That is not necessarily true, and there are reasons a program might not rank you that have nothing to do with how "competitive" you are.

Applying to residency is not really the same as applying to med school.

And not every acgme program is harder to get into than every aoa program.

 

[Just Joshin]

You would apply to both AOA and ACGME out of the gate because you need the time to interview at programs and there is only a 2 or 3 week gap between AOA and ACGME matches. If you apply and get EM or IM in the AOA it is a binding contract.

You're misunderstand the poster's question. His/her question is how to work around the AOA match if you want to do an ACGME residency.

Poster, you can do one of two things if you're sure you want an MD residency -- one is don't apply to AOA residencies. The second is to apply and even interview, but if you know that none of the programs is what you're looking for, don't rank them. Just withdraw from the AOA match and hold out for ACGME.

 

[FirefighterDoc]

You're misunderstand the poster's question. His/her question is how to work around the AOA match if you want to do an ACGME residency.

Poster, you can do one of two things if you're sure you want an MD residency -- one is don't apply to AOA residencies. The second is to apply and even interview, but if you know that none of the programs is what you're looking for, don't rank them. Just withdraw from the AOA match and hold out for ACGME.

This is exactly what i was looking for. Thanks!

 

[bmxbobby2004]

I was just wondering if there was any benefit from doing an AMGE residency vs an AOA residency?

 

[Daedra22]

I was just wondering if there was any benefit from doing an AMGE residency vs an AOA residency?

For those interested in fellowships, there are generally more fellowship opportunities in allopathic residencies. There are not as many AOA fellowships, and many allopathic fellowships may not accept an AOA residency. Further, allopathic residencies are more often in larger cities/more desirable locations... really, it depends on your goals, personal preferences, etc. It makes more sense once you're in 3rd year and have some idea of what you're doing, I'm sure.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I was just wondering if there was any benefit from doing an AMGE residency vs an AOA residency?

You cannot compare ACGME residency programs as a whole to AOA programs as a whole. It cannot be done, and your question has no answer. This is because all AOA programs are not the same, and all ACGME programs are not the same.

Are we talking about doing an EM residency at Cook County (ACGME) vs. OUCOM/Doctor's Hospital (AOA, new program)? If so, you'll probably be better off with the ACGME program.

Are we talking about doing EM at Harvard Mass General (ACGME) vs. Lehigh Valley Hospital (AOA/dual)? If so, you'll probably get better training at the AOA program. Yeah I said it. And those of you scratching your head as to why... this is why it is hard to read a match list as a pre-med.

If you have two specific programs to compare, then you can get an answer.

 

[scpod]

....Yeah I said it. And those of you scratching your head as to why... this is why it is hard to read a match list as a pre-med....

To add to that... it's not much easier to read a match list as a med student, resident or even as an attending. Why? Because you don't know jack about residencies other than those in your specialty. I know a lot about IM residencies because I studied them, interviewed with them and matched in my top choice. I couldn't tell you anything about EM or Rads or Surgery...etc, because quality is not necessarily hospital dependent; it is program dependent. A place with a good rep in one program can royally suck in everything else. You just can't know enough about all the fields to even rate a match list as a "good".

And, you can't just compare all AOA residencies to all ACGME reseidencies. There are good ones and ones that suck in each category. You will hear a lot of people say that "generally" ACGME is better but I disagree. It all depends on what YOU want out of the residency. There were a lot of great ACGME residencies out there that I would never even consider because they don't have what I specifically want.

For example, there could be a great IM program you'd like to go to.... but you want experience putting in a lot of central lines. This program happens to call a surgery resident, though, every time they need one. When are you going to get the experience doing that if you go there? You will find that you have a feeling for individual prgrams more so than ACGME or AOA ones if you interview at both.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

To add to that... it's not much easier to read a match list as a med student, resident or even as an attending. Why? Because you don't know jack about residencies other than those in your specialty. I know a lot about IM residencies because I studied them, interviewed with them and matched in my top choice. I couldn't tell you anything about EM or Rads or Surgery...etc, because quality is not necessarily hospital dependent; it is program dependent. A place with a good rep in one program can royally suck in everything else. You just can't know enough about all the fields to even rate a match list as a "good".

And, you can't just compare all AOA residencies to all ACGME reseidencies. There are good ones and ones that suck in each category. You will hear a lot of people say that "generally" ACGME is better but I disagree. It all depends on what YOU want out of the residency. There were a lot of great ACGME residencies out there that I would never even consider because they don't have what I specifically want.

For example, there could be a great IM program you'd like to go to.... but you want experience putting in a lot of central lines. This program happens to call a surgery resident, though, every time they need one. When are you going to get the experience doing that if you go there? You will find that you have a feeling for individual prgrams more so than ACGME or AOA ones if you interview at both.

No doubt.

I know a ton about EM residency programs, because that's what I'm interested in, I've done a lot of research, and our EM course director is very much "plugged in", and I've picked his brain a lot about it. But I couldn't tell you the first thing about who has good programs for Anesthesiology or Pediatrics or whatever.

But even then, there are still plenty of great programs out there that I don't know much about.

The average pre-med looks at a match list for specialties that they believe to be competitive, and big-name institutions. But places like Harvard, Stanford, Hopkins, etc., are not necessarily the best in the business for everything.

Sometimes, its places you've never heard of, or would never expect. So when I tell my mom that the best places for me to train in my field would be places like Cook County, LA County, Maricopa-Phoenix, Denver Health, Emory, and Baltimore Shock, she doesn't get it, and thinks I've got low standards because I don't even want to apply to a bunch of big-name places.

Don't get me wrong, I'll look everywhere, but this is just what I've heard from people whose opinions I value on the matter.

 

[drctother]

Re SCPOD and TexasTriathlete:

Someone should sticky this or something. I feel that I have read these forums a lot over the past year and people always base matchs off of institution names (myself included). People always say X School has amazing residencies because they matched at Mayo, John Hopkins etc... people just scan the list for a fancy school.

Thanks for the advice, its nice to hear from ACTUAL med students