Do school psychologists take the EPPP and can they open private practice?

[Dan17217]

I am very interested in psychology and I’m preparing to apply to master programs to improve GPA and gain better research experience. My question is, can school psychologists open private practice and do they take the eppp? I was told by a professor at school all psychologists (counseling psychology, school psychology, and clinical) are licensed psychologists and can open private practice if they get licensure. I was told that they all can do private practice and work in a number off settings. I just want to be sure school psychology doesn’t render me incapable of opening a private practice. Was I given correct information?

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[biscuitsbiscuits]

Only school psychologists with a doctoral degree can obtain licensure as a psychologist and open a private practice.

 

[WisNeuro]

I am very interested in psychology and I’m preparing to apply to master programs to improve GPA and gain better research experience. My question is, can school psychologists open private practice and do they take the eppp? I was told by a professor at school all psychologists (counseling psychology, school psychology, and clinical) are licensed psychologists and can open private practice if they get licensure. I was told that they all can do private practice and work in a number off settings. I just want to be sure school psychology doesn’t render me incapable of opening a private practice. Was I given correct information?

Depends on state law and your training background. You may have a hard time gaining certain protected privileges depending on your ability to prove training in certain modalities (e.g., therapy, assessment, neuropsychological assessment).

 

[Justanothergrad]

You may also not have sufficient training / be competent in all of the areas you would want to practice. If you are interested in private practice (or any specific job), the best bet is to get the training that most people in that area of practice have. In this case, that means clinical or counseling as a degree.

 

[Dan17217]

You may also not have sufficient training / be competent in all of the areas you would want to practice. If you are interested in private practice (or any specific job), the best bet is to get the training that most people in that area of practice have. In this case, that means clinical or counseling as a degree.

I am interested In being able to provide evaluations for adolescents and college students. Such as Evals for adhd and other learning disabilities. As well as do therapy for youth students and adult students ranging from issues such as anxiety and adhd or family issues and social issues that may be creating a barrier for them to performe well in school. My therapist in college was a school psychologist and performed the same therapies that a clinical psychologist I had performed. Will I be able to open private private as a school psychologist? My research points to yes and many do however based on the responses it seems as though it’s more nuanced than I previously thought. Could you explain it more? Will I be limited as what I can do as a school psychologist as opposed to a clinical psychologist or a counseling psychologist?

 

[Dan17217]

Depends on state law and your training background. You may have a hard time gaining certain protected privileges depending on your ability to prove training in certain modalities (e.g., therapy, assessment, neuropsychological assessment).

So what you’re saying is I may have a difficult time performing therapies as a school psychologist? My psychologist in college had a school psychology PhD and performed the same therapies that the clinical psychologist I had after college performed. Could you explain your answer a little more?

 

[Dan17217]

I am interested In being able to provide evaluations for adolescents and college students. Such as Evals for adhd and other learning disabilities. As well as do therapy for youth students and adult students ranging from issues such as anxiety and adhd or family issues and social issues that may be creating a barrier for them to performe well in school. My therapist in college was a school psychologist and performed the same therapies that a clinical psychologist I had performed. Will I be able to open private private as a school psychologist? My research points to yes and many do however based on the responses it seems as though it’s more nuanced than I previously thought. Could you explain it more? Will I be limited as what I can do as a school psychologist as opposed to a clinical psychologist or a counseling psychologist?

Also I was told that school psychologists can performe the evaluations such as learning disabilities and IQ tests. Thank you for taking the time to answer I appreciate it!

 

[psych.meout]

You've mentioned LD assessments several times, but one very important thing you need to remember is that you can't bill insurance for these kinds of psychoeducational assessments. They aren't medically necessary and schools are legally supposed to be providing these services to their students. Trying to bill insurance for psychoeducational assessments by booking them as something else is insurance fraud.

If you open a private practice, yes, you can do psychoeducational assessments for private pay, but the competition is fierce and your business is likely going to be dependent on your location.

 

[Dan17217]

You've mentioned LD assessments several times, but one very important thing you need to remember is that you can't bill insurance for these kinds of psychoeducational assessments. They aren't medically necessary and schools are legally supposed to be providing these services to their students. Trying to bill insurance for psychoeducational assessments by booking them as something else is insurance fraud.

If you open a private practice, yes, you can do psychoeducational assessments for private pay, but the competition is fierce and your business is likely going to be dependent on your location.

I was informed that even as a school psychologist I can performe private practice for kids and young adults with issues that would prevent them from succeeding in a school setting. As I will have extensive training in childhood disabilities and behavioral disabilities according to the NASP. I appreciate you pointing out what a nuance I might not have been considering but is certainly important to consider. You rock!

 

[psych.meout]

While I appreciate your answer, I wasn’t greatly concerned with insurance or billing. Thank you anyway though

Ok, but insurance, billing, and how you are going to get paid are unavoidable and crucial for any kind of psychologist. You can't help anyone if you can't afford to keep the lights on.

These things significantly factor into your questions about opening a private practice. Since school psychologists tend to be more focused on psychoeducational assessments and functioning within the school environment, it is more difficult (though not impossible) for them to open and operate private practices. This is why school psychologists without doctoral degrees tend to be employed by school districts themselves.

I was informed that even as a school psychologist I can performe private practice for kids and young adults with issues that would prevent them from succeeding in a school setting. As I will have extensive training in childhood disabilities and behavioral disabilities according to the NASP. I appreciate you pointing out what a nuance I might not have been considering but is certainly important to consider. You rock!

Ok, but why would the parents of school-aged children or young adults go to you in private practice when they can get the same services for free or on a sliding scale at the their schools or universities, respectively? Also, the school psychologists and counselors at their schools/universities will be integrated within the milieu of the educational setting and thereby be more able to get them the services they need to succeed.

 

[Dan17217]

Ok, but insurance, billing, and how you are going to get paid are unavoidable and crucial for any kind of psychologist. You can't help anyone if you can't afford to keep the lights on.

These things significantly factor into your questions about opening a private practice. Since school psychologists tend to be more focused on psychoeducational assessments and functioning within the school environment, it is more difficult (though not impossible) for them to open and operate private practices. This is why school psychologists without doctoral degrees tend to be employed by school districts themselves.


Ok, but why would the parents of school-aged children or young adults go to you in private practice when they can get the same services for free or on a sliding scale at the their schools or universities, respectively? Also, the school psychologists and counselors at their schools/universities will be integrated within the milieu of the educational setting and thereby be more able to get them the services they need to succeed.

Well I do plan on getting a PhD. I don’t see the use in stopping at masters. Aside from being able to work in a school setting I want to be able to open my own practice in servicing children and adults (college). I see your point “why would they come to you” however if I am an exceptional psychologist I believe I would have clients the same way exceptional clinical psychologists could. My point is I am unsure what the limits to each are as my research is not really clear. I want to be able to offer services to help with behavioral issues, anxiety, adhd related issues etc. perhaps the family or student can only do a weeken or what have you. I want to know as a PhD school psychologist who is licensed can I open a private practice offereing therapies or am I limited to school settings k-12 college and teaching?

 

[Dan17217]

Well I do plan on getting a PhD. I don’t see the use in stopping at masters. Aside from being able to work in a school setting I want to be able to open my own practice in servicing children and adults (college). I see your point “why would they come to you” however if I am an exceptional psychologist I believe I would have clients the same way exceptional clinical psychologists could. My point is I am unsure what the limits to each are as my research is not really clear. I want to be able to offer services to help with behavioral issues, anxiety, adhd related issues etc. perhaps the family or student can only do a weeken or what have you. I want to know as a PhD school psychologist who is licensed can I open a private practice offereing therapies or am I limited to school settings k-12 college and teaching?

I am very passionate about helping kids succeed in learning as I was diagnosed with adhd and in my day not much was known at all and their solution was throw him in special needs. A independent psyD evaluates me and kept me out of that. I want to help children be able to reach their potential and help create innovative learning techniques that will help. I also want to be able to help keep kids out of programs that will hinder their progress. I am torn between school and clinical because I really want to open my own practice but to my knowledge schools don’t really use clinical psychologists as they have access to school psychologists. Also can I teach college courses as a school psychologist

 

[Justanothergrad]

I am very passionate about helping kids succeed in learning as I was diagnosed with adhd and in my day not much was known at all and their solution was throw him in special needs. A independent psyD evaluates me and kept me out of that. I want to help children be able to reach their potential and help create innovative learning techniques that will help. I also want to be able to help keep kids out of programs that will hinder their progress. I am torn between school and clinical because I really want to open my own practice but to my knowledge schools don’t really use clinical psychologists as they have access to school psychologists. Also can I teach college courses as a school psychologist

Passion alone does not make for a good career move. I would encourage you to read about the realities of your career goals. I do not believe you have explored these careers enough to understand the realities of practice / career opportunities associated with each. Your goals (e.g., create innovative learning techniques) seem aspirational and far fetched rather than the work of a good, reasoned career plan. I would recommend finding someone who does what you want to do and do an informational interview. Pay them for their time; information costs money. If you can't find anyone who does what you want, there may be a reason and it is worth remembering that.

 

[Dan17217]

Passion alone does not make for a good career move. I would encourage you to read about the realities of your career goals. I do not believe you have explored these careers enough to understand the realities of practice / career opportunities associated with each. Your goals (e.g., create innovative learning techniques) seem aspirational and far fetched rather than the work of a good, reasoned career plan. I would recommend finding someone who does what you want to do and do an informational interview. Pay them for their time; information costs money. If you can't find anyone who does what you want, there may be a reason and it is worth remembering that.

Well, I wasn’t really asking for your opinion on whether my career choices are “smart”. I already made my choice. Psychology. I asked a simple question about what I can do, actually clarification considering I already received advice. I just wanted to see if it was correct information. Why are there so many people on this site more concerned about focusing on what they believe the person asking the question needs to know rather than the actual answer. Your response is rather trivial in my opinion. Yea, I know passion isn’t enough. Im trying to make a decision between school psych and clinical as what’s aligned most with my goals. Now I apologize for the nastiness but it’s not really your concern whether or not you believe my choices are “wise”. If you can’t answer the simple question don’t respond. “I recommend finding someone who does what you want to do” clearly I’m trying to decide what exact career I want to pursue inside psychology. Also, isn’t that what this site is for? To talk to people who know about the medical, dental, psychology fields? I think it’s worth remembering not to add your two cents and stick to the question asked. Your advice is rather trivial and useless. But thanks for the waste of an answer

 

[Dan17217]

Passion alone does not make for a good career move. I would encourage you to read about the realities of your career goals. I do not believe you have explored these careers enough to understand the realities of practice / career opportunities associated with each. Your goals (e.g., create innovative learning techniques) seem aspirational and far fetched rather than the work of a good, reasoned career plan. I would recommend finding someone who does what you want to do and do an informational interview. Pay them for their time; information costs money. If you can't find anyone who does what you want, there may be a reason and it is worth remembering that.

Also considering you’re a counseling psychologist wouldn’t you be someone to ask considering your in the field? Otherwise what’s the point of this site? A simple you can do this or you can’t do this in the field would suffice. If i wanted to know what’s wise or not I would speak to family or friends. I used “create innovative learning techniques” because according to the NASP (national association for school psychologist) that’s what school psychologists help with for individual students. Wasn’t really asking what YOU consider far fetched.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I have three reactions.
1. The Dunning-Kruger is a remarkable effect.
2. The danger with asking the opinions of others is that you may get them.
3. Some things are true if you believe them or not.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Im trying to make a decision between school psych and clinical as what’s aligned most with my goals.

Your goals would seem to require licensure as a Psychologist. Many (most?) states also require some sort of “health service provider” distinction. Educational requirements will differ by state. In the states in which I’m licensed (MA and CT), psychologist licensure requires a doctoral degree in “psychology,” with specific coursework and experience standards. Most licensed psychologists come from clinical and counseling programs, as these are typicallty designed to meet licensure requirement. A doctoral degree from a school psych program would work, so long as you also met the coursework and experience standards. On the flip side, many clinical/counseling programs focus on the areas you’ve expressed an interest in. I have done and- to lesser extent- continue to do the things you mention with a degree in clinical psych.

Should you choose to move forward with the doctoral in school psychology route, you should first check with the psychologist licensure boards in any steps you might EVEN IMAGINE yourself working in. Also, you should inquire of any training program you are considering if the are designed to prepare you for LICENSURE AS A PSYCHOLOGIST/HEALTH SERVICES PROVIDER. Be aware that there is, in some states, different licensure as a “School Psychologist.” This is typically a masters level credential with practice primarily limited to school settings. Also be aware that school psych masters programs may not lead directly to doctoral programs that would prepare you for psychologist/HSP licensure (this would mean that you might have to, basically, start over if you wanted to go on to pursue doctoral training/licensure. Also, be aware that in many states some of what you want to do might fall under different licenses. For example, the practice of ABA is separately licensed in many states (though there are often exemptions for licensed psychs with appropriate training). Do some research into state laws, as these will differ and dictate what you’ll need.

I encourage you to pursue your passion and dream. Continue to do your homework so that you don’t make decisions along the way that might set up barriers later. Also- while I understand that some of the advice/opinions you got above were unsolicited- you need to have a workable plan to get where you want to go. Having multiple options for clients, settings, and - equally important- revenue streams, will better set you up to do what you want as you advance through your career. You just won’t be competitive enough earlycarreer to get all those private pay clients. Make sure you have options for surviving until you are. Best of luck!

 

[WisNeuro]

So what you’re saying is I may have a difficult time performing therapies as a school psychologist? My psychologist in college had a school psychology PhD and performed the same therapies that the clinical psychologist I had after college performed. Could you explain your answer a little more?

In many jurisdictions you need to be able to show that you had specific kinds of training to perform specific services. And that you have attended various accredited training steps along the way depending on your degree and license type. What you want to do sounds mostly like clinical psych. If you were doing that in my jurisdiction, you would likely be reported to the licensing board. Also, people have brought up an incredibly important issue. What you can bill insurances for. If you cannot get credentialed to do certain things, you do not get paid. It's fairly difficult to make it well on purely private practice. And, it rarely matters how good of a provider you are, it matters how good of a business person you are. A clinical or counseling degree would meet what you want, while providing you far more flexibility and earning potential than a school psych degree.

 

[Dan17217]

I have three reactions.
1. The Dunning-Kruger is a remarkable effect.
2. The danger with asking the opinions of others is that you may get them.
3. Some things are true if you believe them or not.

I also have a reaction. Wherever you did you PhD failed to teach you how to answer a direct question instead of giving an unwanted opinion. Where exactly is that

I have three reactions.
1. The Dunning-Kruger is a remarkable effect.
2. The danger with asking the opinions of others is that you may get them.
3. Some things are true if you believe them or not.

I also have a reaction. Wherever you did your PhD failed to teach you how to answer a direct question and not give unwanted, unasked for and useless opinions. Remind me to avoid that program

 

[WisNeuro]

Good luck in the future, kid. You'll likely need it.

 

[Dan17217]

Your goals would seem to require licensure as a Psychologist. Many (most?) states also require some sort of “health service provider” distinction. Educational requirements will differ by state. In the states in which I’m licensed (MA and CT), psychologist licensure requires a doctoral degree in “psychology,” with specific coursework and experience standards. Most licensed psychologists come from clinical and counseling programs, as these are typicallty designed to meet licensure requirement. A doctoral degree from a school psych program would work, so long as you also met the coursework and experience standards. On the flip side, many clinical/counseling programs focus on the areas you’ve expressed an interest in. I have done and- to lesser extent- continue to do the things you mention with a degree in clinical psych.

Should you choose to move forward with the doctoral in school psychology route, you should first check with the psychologist licensure boards in any steps you might EVEN IMAGINE yourself working in. Also, you should inquire of any training program you are considering if the are designed to prepare you for LICENSURE AS A PSYCHOLOGIST/HEALTH SERVICES PROVIDER. Be aware that there is, in some states, different licensure as a “School Psychologist.” This is typically a masters level credential with practice primarily limited to school settings. Also be aware that school psych masters programs may not lead directly to doctoral programs that would prepare you for psychologist/HSP licensure (this would mean that you might have to, basically, start over if you wanted to go on to pursue doctoral training/licensure. Also, be aware that in many states some of what you want to do might fall under different licenses. For example, the practice of ABA is separately licensed in many states (though there are often exemptions for licensed psychs with appropriate training). Do some research into state laws, as these will differ and dictate what you’ll need.

I encourage you to pursue your passion and dream. Continue to do your homework so that you don’t make decisions along the way that might set up barriers later. Also- while I understand that some of the advice/opinions you got above were unsolicited- you need to have a workable plan to get where you want to go. Having multiple options for clients, settings, and - equally important- revenue streams, will better set you up to do what you want as you advance through your career. You just won’t be competitive enough earlycarreer to get all those private pay clients. Make sure you have options for surviving until you are. Best of luck!

Thank you for your response! It was through and VERY helpful! I certainly understand that masters may not lead to PhD but I didn’t think clinical psychologists could do what I express intrest in in regards to students. As a clinical psychologist I can do evaluations and work with students to help them succeed academically?! If clinical would allow me the training to help students and work private practice that would be incredible!

 

[Dan17217]

In many jurisdictions you need to be able to show that you had specific kinds of training to perform specific services. And that you have attended various accredited training steps along the way depending on your degree and license type. What you want to do sounds mostly like clinical psych. If you were doing that in my jurisdiction, you would likely be reported to the licensing board. Also, people have brought up an incredibly important issue. What you can bill insurances for. If you cannot get credentialed to do certain things, you do not get paid. It's fairly difficult to make it well on purely private practice. And, it rarely matters how good of a provider you are, it matters how good of a business person you are. A clinical or counseling degree would meet what you want, while providing you far more flexibility and earning potential than a school psych degree.

I agree on being hard to make it with just private practice. As all my clinical mentors have teaching positions and often state jobs with a private practice on the side. I’m just trying to understand if I can still work in school/academic settings as a clinical psychologist. What I’m noticing of all the answers is it’s less about the specific degree I choose but more about my states licensure requirements and how the program I choose meets those requirements which will allow me to work in certain settings. Am I understanding correctly?

 

[Justanothergrad]

I also have a reaction. Wherever you did you PhD failed to teach you how to answer a direct question instead of giving an unwanted opinion. Where exactly is that

I also have a reaction. Wherever you did your PhD failed to teach you how to answer a direct question and not give unwanted, unasked for and useless opinions. Remind me to avoid that program

Ok. Well good luck in your career. If you get bored and want good advice, re-read what I wrote. There is good advice in it because you don't know half of what you think you do about the field/scope of practice for training. And I wouldn't worry about my program or the one I'm a faculty member at now. Your attitude towards feedback is a big enough problem that you won't need to worry about how it might train you.

 

[WisNeuro]

I agree on being hard to make it with just private practice. As all my clinical mentors have teaching positions and often state jobs with a private practice on the side. I’m just trying to understand if I can still work in school/academic settings as a clinical psychologist. What I’m noticing of all the answers is it’s less about the specific degree I choose but more about my states licensure requirements and how the program I choose meets those requirements which will allow me to work in certain settings. Am I understanding correctly?

It's both, really. The degree, and accreditation are fairly paramount when it comes to employment.

 

[Dan17217]

Ok. Well good luck in your career. If you get bored and want good advice, re-read what I wrote. There is good advice in it because you don't know half of what you think you do about the field/scope of practice for training. And I wouldn't worry about my program or the one I'm a faculty member at now. Your attitude towards feedback is a big enough problem that you won't need to worry about how it might train you.

My issue with you is simply your

Ok. Well good luck in your career. If you get bored and want good advice, re-read what I wrote. There is good advice in it because you don't know half of what you think you do about the field/scope of practice for training. And I wouldn't worry about my program or the one I'm a faculty member at now. Your attitude towards feedback is a big enough problem that you won't need to worry about how it might train you.

again, thank you for your condescending “advice” and your opinion which wasnt very germane to what I initially asked. I am perfectly capable of taking real advice, hence why I asked this page. Wiseneuro and abase advice was very helpful. But nitpicking why you personally believe my choices aren’t “wise” instead of simply explaining how to make a more educated decision in the field isn’t exactly helpful. Have a nice day

 

[psych.meout]

I also have a reaction. Wherever you did you PhD failed to teach you how to answer a direct question instead of giving an unwanted opinion. Where exactly is that

I also have a reaction. Wherever you did your PhD failed to teach you how to answer a direct question and not give unwanted, unasked for and useless opinions. Remind me to avoid that program

What is with people here starting threads and acting like they have some kind of executive fiat over what can get posted. People aren't restricted to just what answers you want them to give. Sure, you may have started a thread, but anyone is free to comment whatever they want. This is not just for you, it's not a private email chain. Other students and aspiring students are supposed to be benefiting from this information. I'm extremely grateful for all the information I read in thread here, they definitely helped me get in to grad school.

Honestly, you should welcome the actual psychologists here giving you advice beyond what you have asked. They know what information is important and what questions need answering, but which you neglected to ask.

 

[Dan17217]

It's both, really. The degree, and accreditation are fairly paramount when it comes to employment.

Awesome! Thank you! I’m just a little confused if clinical psychologists can provide assessments for school children and work in setting other than private practice and academia I.e if my local university had an opening for a student counselor. I searched the NASP and APA but I can’t really get a answer. But your advice helped me better understand it’s more about what skills comes with the degree and what my licensure allows. I will certainly do more research on that instead

 

[WisNeuro]

Awesome! Thank you! I’m just a little confused if clinical psychologists can provide assessments for school children and work in setting other than private practice and academia I.e if my local university had an opening for a student counselor. I searched the NASP and APA but I can’t really get a answer. But your advice helped me better understand it’s more about what skills comes with the degree and what my licensure allows. I will certainly do more research on that instead

They definitely can, and do. Not that the positions always pay all that well, though.

 

[Dan17217]

What is with people here starting threads and acting like they have some kind of executive fiat over what can get posted. People aren't restricted to just what answers you want them to give. Sure, you may have started a thread, but anyone is free to comment whatever they want. This is not just for you, it's not a private email chain. Other students and aspiring students are supposed to be benefiting from this information. I'm extremely grateful for all the information I read in thread here, they definitely helped me get in to grad school.

Honestly, you should welcome the actual psychologists here giving you advice beyond what you have asked. They know what information is important and what questions need answering, but which you neglected to ask.

As you can see with my other answers I more than welcome advice. What I don’t welcome is condescending remarks on why or why not my personal career choices are “wise”. Granted my statement of creating innovative learning techniques was a little hyperbolic, it doesn’t really elicit a snide remark from a supposed professional.

 

[Justanothergrad]

What is with people here starting threads and acting like they have some kind of executive fiat over what can get posted. People aren't restricted to just what answers you want them to give. Sure, you may have started a thread, but anyone is free to comment whatever they want. This is not just for you, it's not a private email chain. Other students and aspiring students are supposed to be benefiting from this information. I'm extremely grateful for all the information I read in thread here, they definitely helped me get in to grad school.

Honestly, you should welcome the actual psychologists here giving you advice beyond what you have asked. They know what information is important and what questions need answering, but which you neglected to ask.

There is always Argosy.

I suspect that this poster will not take my advice to meet with someone who does what they want to do and find out what steps got them there. This is some of the best advice in the thread because it offers an avenue for the most specific feedback. We can only make assumptions about the minimal information provided and what we glean from the way posters describe their knowledge of the field. When they comment that they will ask family and friends for professional guidance I always groan- that's a poor career choice unless they happen to be in the field. People don't ask me how to prep for combine for a reason. Where is that meme about taking our advice?

 

[Dan17217]

They definitely can, and do. Not that the positions always pay all that well, though.

While compensation is certainly a concern I’m understanding clinical psych offers more options than school psychology might. Thank you for clearing that up for me! It helped me build a bigger picture of what to look into!

 

[Dan17217]

There is always Argosy.

I suspect that this poster will not take my advice to meet with someone who does what they want to do and find out what steps got them there. This is some of the best advice in the thread because it offers an avenue for the most specific feedback. We can only make assumptions about the minimal information provided and what we glean from the way posters describe their knowledge of the field. When they comment that they will ask family and friends for professional guidance I always groan- that's a poor career choice unless they happen to be in the field. People don't ask me how to prep for combine for a reason. Where is that meme about taking our advice?

As a professional does it dawn on you to simply say “seek out those who are doing what you want” instead of implying ones passion is insignificant and unwise? Perhaps I came here because around me is limited in number if people who do what I am seeking. My issue is with how it seems you feel the need to first talk down to those you deem “unwise” then hide behind the idea you gave them good advice after telling them it’s unwise to have a passion.

 

[psych.meout]

As a professional does it dawn on you to simply say “seek out those who are doing what you want” instead of implying ones passion is insignificant and unwise? Perhaps I came here because around me is limited in number if people who do what I am seeking. My issue is with how it seems you feel the need to first talk down to those you deem “unwise” then hide behind the idea you gave them good advice after telling them it’s unwise to have a passion.

As you can see with my other answers I more than welcome advice. What I don’t welcome is condescending remarks on why or why not my personal career choices are “wise”. Granted my statement of creating innovative learning techniques was a little hyperbolic, it doesn’t really elicit a snide remark from a supposed professional.

This is not really relevant to your specific questions, but this is not how quotations work. You are using quotations around "wise," "unwise," and other words, but you are the only one who has used them in this entire thread.

 

[Dan17217]

This is not really relevant to your specific questions, but this is not how quotations work. You are using quotations around "wise," "unwise," and other words, but you are the only one who has used them in this entire thread.

There are two uses of quotations. One being directly quoting a person which is one way I used them. Another way inverted reconstruction. Or commonly known as scare quotes, a way for the writer to distance himself from the language used and kind of shed light on the ridiculousness of the language used. Hence why I put scare quotes around wise and unwise. A writers way of showing disapproval for the language used. But thank you for being concerned with how I use quotations.

 

[WisNeuro]

There are two uses of quotations. One being directly quoting a person which is one way I used them. Another way inverted reconstruction. Or commonly known as scare quotes, a way for the writer to distance himself from the language used and kind of shed light on the ridiculousness of the language used. Hence why I put scare quotes around wise and unwise. A writers way of showing disapproval for the language used. But thank you for being concerned with how I use quotations.

My advice is to just ignore the advice you don't want, or look for the positives in it, because there often is some, and ask follow-up questions. Arguing every point of contention in an advice seeking thread isn't likely to help, and many people who would otherwise be happy to offer advice, will simply ignore the thread.

 

[Dan17217]

My advice is to just ignore the advice you don't want, or look for the positives in it, because there often is some, and ask follow-up questions. Arguing every point of contention in an advice seeking thread isn't likely to help, and many people who would otherwise be happy to offer advice, will simply ignore the thread.

You make a valid point

 

[psych.meout]

There are two uses of quotations. One being directly quoting a person which is one way I used them. Another way inverted reconstruction. Or commonly known as scare quotes, a way for the writer to distance himself from the language used and kind of shed light on the ridiculousness of the language used. Hence why I put scare quotes around wise and unwise. A writers way of showing disapproval for the language used. But thank you for being concerned with how I use quotations.

Right, otherwise known as strawmanning the arguments of others.

Should you actually go to grad school, I pity your supervisors.

 

[Dan17217]

Right, otherwise known as strawmanning the arguments of others.

Should you actually go to grad school, I pity your supervisors.

It’s clear you don’t know what strawmaning is. How you got through grad school is difficult to understand. If we’re gonna resort to ad-homonym attacks I’d be glad to. Why is it so difficult to understand my contention isn’t with advice I don’t want to hear, it’s with being spoken down to and told how wise or unwise what I want to do is? Advice is constructive criticism NOT implying to someone their goals are dumb. Just FYI a straw man is when you tear down the stance of another person and build another point that was not in anyway what your opponent was getting at then tearing that down to discredit them. So this doesn’t fit that. There’s a way to give advice and be productive and a way to just be rude and talk down to others. I pity the professors who had to deal with you. See I can make unreasonable claims without knowing you personally as well

 

[WisNeuro]

I wonder how many more posts before the thread gets shut down?

 

[Justanothergrad]

I wonder how many more posts before the thread gets shut down?

I'm going with 13.

As a professional does it dawn on you to simply say “seek out those who are doing what you want” instead of implying ones passion is insignificant and unwise? Perhaps I came here because around me is limited in number if people who do what I am seeking. My issue is with how it seems you feel the need to first talk down to those you deem “unwise” then hide behind the idea you gave them good advice after telling them it’s unwise to have a passion.

Does it seem unhelpful for me to provide a clear, concrete step and encourage you to discover directly what I (and others) have alluded to throughout this thread? No. It does not. Current vocational research consistently dictates that one of the best practices for learning about careers is through informational interviews. If you want to be a school psychologist doing private practice and LD assessments while also promoting any focused career outcome, find someone who does that and figure out what they did. You are proposing to accomplish a task with numerous legal and professional barriers. Your stated understanding of the field and career goals would benefit from this. As I said at the end of my statement, if there is a limited number of people doing what you want- there may be a reason and that is worth considering.

You would also benefit from reading what I said more carefully. This is a skill that will be of infinite help to you as a professional. I didn't say it's unwise to have a passion. I said passion alone is not sufficient.

But again, you're the boss of you.

 

[psych.meout]

I wonder how many more posts before the thread gets shut down?

Better question: How long until the inevitable thread where OP complains that they are in a terrible grad program that they hate and which is causing them to go into insurmountable debt?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It's both, really. The degree, and accreditation are fairly paramount when it comes to employment.

Mixed into all of that are also the issues of scope of practice and competency. Much of what the OP described appears to fall within clinical psych, though if he wanted to practice in the school setting, it is much more of a state by state consideration.

As others have stated, going the school psych route would allow practice in schools, but PP would be harder in regard to getting paid for the work. The cash pay market tends to be very competitive and hard to sustain a practice starting out unless you have an in at a private school, where cash pay tends to be more frequent. There can be a lot of “white glove” needs (often non-billable) when dealing with parents in that setting, which can be a hassle; offering non biz hours may also be needed.

There is also the issue of psychoeducational assessment v. neuropsych, as the OP mentioned ADHD and learning disability evals. Once it starts to spill over into congenital conditions, misdiagnosed learning disorders, evaluating for autism, etc....that's the realm of pediatric neuropsychology, which is a looong and very competitive road. I’ve seen school psychologists get pushed into a more neuro role bc of the lack of pediatric neuropsych availability, which can be a tough position to practice.

Competency quickly becomes an issue when clinical psychologists (generalists) or school psychologists start dabbling in neuropsych. My first ~2yr of research training was in peds doing psychoeducational evals in a joint research project with school psychology faculty, and that assessment work was quite different than peds neuro, but it gave me an appreciation of how quickly those two sides can come together bc cases are rarely clean and easily defined.

Lastly, there are a handful of school + clinical (APA-approved) training programs that would get him almost everything he wants, but that road can be tough because there are a limited # of programs that do it, most of them in the northeast.

Attaining an APA-acred internship can be a bit trickier coming from a school psych program, though a combined program could allow an easier path. There are a handful of solid school psych internship training options within APPIC, so the competition can be high for them.

I post all of this for the OP not to dissuade him, but instead to try and provide more of a context for why what he wants isn’t going to be easy and why some of the responses aren’t what he wants to hear.

 

[Dan17217]

Mixed into all of that are also the issues of scope of practice and competency. Much of what the OP described appears to fall within clinical psych, though if he wanted to practice in the school setting, it is much more of a state by state consideration.

As others have stated, going the school psych route would allow practice in schools, but PP would be harder in regard to getting paid for the work. The cash pay market tends to be very competitive and hard to sustain a practice starting out unless you have an in at a private school, where cash pay tends to be more frequent. There can be a lot of “white glove” needs (often non-billable) when dealing with parents in that setting, which can be a hassle; offering non biz hours may also be needed.

There is also the issue of psychoeducational assessment v. neuropsych, as the OP mentioned ADHD and learning disability evals. Once it starts to spill over into congenital conditions, misdiagnosed learning disorders, evaluating for autism, etc....that's the realm of pediatric neuropsychology, which is a looong and very competitive road. I’ve seen school psychologists get pushed into a more neuro role bc of the lack of pediatric neuropsych availability, which can be a tough position to practice.

Competency quickly becomes an issue when clinical psychologists (generalists) or school psychologists start dabbling in neuropsych. My first ~2yr of research training was in peds doing psychoeducational evals in a joint research project with school psychology faculty, and that assessment work was quite different than peds neuro, but it gave me an appreciation of how quickly those two sides can come together bc cases are rarely clean and easily defined.

Lastly, there are a handful of school + clinical (APA-approved) training programs that would get him almost everything he wants, but that road can be tough because there are a limited # of programs that do it, most of them in the northeast.

Attaining an APA-acred internship can be a bit trickier coming from a school psych program, though a combined program could allow an easier path. There are a handful of solid school psych internship training options within APPIC, so the competition can be high for them.

I post all of this for the OP not to dissuade him, but instead to try and provide more of a context for why what he wants isn’t going to be easy and why some of the responses aren’t what he wants to hear.

Thank you! That’s very informative! I knew of the field of neuropsychology and some progarams that offer clinical phds with emphasis in neuro but I certainly didn’t know of the pediatric neuro field. It appears everything is becoming more specialized as I was advised that clinical psychologists and neuropsychologists can provide the Evals, or at least they did! This absolutely doesn’t dissuade me in any way, it gives me a much better sense of what I’m getting into. I certainly don’t want to limit myself to something where I’ll have difficulty making ends meat as I certainly do not expect to open a private practice and be very successful starting out. I want to be sure that while I develope a practice, I have training and a degree that will allow me to work elsewhere and pay bills. Thank you for your input. I believe I will have to look more at the programs and what training they provide

 

[Dan17217]

Mixed into all of that are also the issues of scope of practice and competency. Much of what the OP described appears to fall within clinical psych, though if he wanted to practice in the school setting, it is much more of a state by state consideration.

As others have stated, going the school psych route would allow practice in schools, but PP would be harder in regard to getting paid for the work. The cash pay market tends to be very competitive and hard to sustain a practice starting out unless you have an in at a private school, where cash pay tends to be more frequent. There can be a lot of “white glove” needs (often non-billable) when dealing with parents in that setting, which can be a hassle; offering non biz hours may also be needed.

There is also the issue of psychoeducational assessment v. neuropsych, as the OP mentioned ADHD and learning disability evals. Once it starts to spill over into congenital conditions, misdiagnosed learning disorders, evaluating for autism, etc....that's the realm of pediatric neuropsychology, which is a looong and very competitive road. I’ve seen school psychologists get pushed into a more neuro role bc of the lack of pediatric neuropsych availability, which can be a tough position to practice.

Competency quickly becomes an issue when clinical psychologists (generalists) or school psychologists start dabbling in neuropsych. My first ~2yr of research training was in peds doing psychoeducational evals in a joint research project with school psychology faculty, and that assessment work was quite different than peds neuro, but it gave me an appreciation of how quickly those two sides can come together bc cases are rarely clean and easily defined.

Lastly, there are a handful of school + clinical (APA-approved) training programs that would get him almost everything he wants, but that road can be tough because there are a limited # of programs that do it, most of them in the northeast.

Attaining an APA-acred internship can be a bit trickier coming from a school psych program, though a combined program could allow an easier path. There are a handful of solid school psych internship training options within APPIC, so the competition can be high for them.

I post all of this for the OP not to dissuade him, but instead to try and provide more of a context for why what he wants isn’t going to be easy and why some of the responses aren’t what he wants to hear.

When you say “a combined program” you mean a program that combines school and clinical psych? That sounds interesting to what I may want. Can I find those programs on the APA site?

 

[Dan17217]

Better question: How long until the inevitable thread where OP complains that they are in a terrible grad program that they hate and which is causing them to go into insurmountable debt?

Yea I already did my research on what programs I’ll be applying for masters but when i go for my PhD I’ll be sure to send you my tears since you care so much. Worry about yourself and understanding quotes instead of my programs 🙂

 

[ClinicalABA]

T... but I didn’t think clinical psychologists could do ..

Traditional clinical psychologist training tends to be a combination of pretty standard and broad coursework, with opportunities for varied in-house clinical experience (such as through a training clinic associated with the program), or external practicum. In addition to meeting accreditation standards for the program (and licensure standards for the students), this broad training sets the foundation for more specific clinical training and experiences. In typical mentor-model programs, you would likely apply to and work with a specific professor (for clinically and- especially- research endeavors). You would further define the specific nature of your training through pre- and post-doctoral internships. Once you are graduated and working in the field, you will also have opportunities for more specific training (e.g., in new assessment or intervention techniques), which are typically related to refining skills in existing areas of proficiency. For example, my current job mainly involves doing diagnostic assessments for young children suspected of displaying ASD. While I had a background in ASD treatment and, to a lesser extent, evaluation, I had no previous experience with the ADOS-2 ("gold standard" assessment instrument for ASD). I was able to get formal training (week long-course organized by the originator and publisher of the test), as well as get supervised experience administering it. After both of those things, I was comfortable putting it out to the public that I was competent to administer the test independently. Had I had a background in mainly something like, say, eating disorders in college students, I would need more than just the week course and some supervision in the ADOS-2, but rather more background in ASD, assessing children, systems of care for children with ASD, etc.

To sum it up, good doctoral training in clinical psych will give you a generalist foundations, but also opportunities to narrow your focus as your progress through your training. If you get training and experience in the specific things you want to do, then you can do them with a doctoral degree in clinical psych (or a license eligible degree in counseling, school, or combined psych). Without this specific training and experience, doing such things would be unethical and, most likely, illegal. It is not just the degree that matters, but the specific training that you get while (and after) earning that degree that will dictate what services you can offer to the public.

 

[psych.meout]

Yea I already did my research on what programs I’ll be applying for masters but when i go for my PhD I’ll be sure to send you my tears since you care so much. Worry about yourself and understanding quotes instead of my programs 🙂

Learn when someone is subtly making fun of you.

 

[Dan17217]

Learn when someone is subtly making fun of you.

In addition to your limited knowledge of how to use quotations you should learn the art of sarcasm. Seriously, if you made it through grad school I’m not at all worried anymore. Also, you weren’t so subtle about it.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mod Note: Folks, let's please try to remain welcoming, professional, and on-topic. In general, I would say if you feel the urge to make a snarky or terse reply simply for the sake of such, I encourage you to step away from the computer for a few minutes before responding.

---------

Quick reply to the OP, which has probably already been mentioned: it depends. School psychologists are often eligible for licensure and non-school practice, depending on state guidelines. But you'll most likely need to have completed a pre-doctoral internship, the necessary type of which may not be required by the doctoral institution. If such licensure is the ultimate goal, it's something you'd want to plan for from day 1 of grad school.

And as others have mentioned, pediatric clinical/counseling psychology and pediatric neuropsychology are alternatives. I will say that in general, it can be difficult for a clinical/counseling psychologist to work within (and directly for) a school (K-12). But providing consultative services or, as you've stated, private practice are options.

 

[psych.meout]

We can piss and moan over what diff between a school and neuro psych is. But that’s ******ed.

It's not really "pissing and moaning," there are real scope of practice and credential concerns over unqualified people, regardless of their degrees, practicing neuropsych. It's not at all a trivial matter.

Hell I know lots of board certified neuropsychologists with PhDs in guess what.. school psychology.

Right, and they (likely) adhered to the same Houston Conference standards as the clinical and counseling PhDs. The issue with neuropsych is not which degree you get, but that you are fulfilling the didactic and experiential training requirements.

It's not that you can't do X at all with your degree path, but whether doing X with your degree path is likely and whether another degree path is more conducive to it. The former is especially important and a common sticking point here. So many aspiring students come here ostensibly asking for advice, but just get hostile once actual psychologists poke holes in their hopes and dreams with the realities of the field or, god forbid, make statements that are not strictly within the context of the originally asked questions (the horror!). They all ignore the modal outcomes and what is likely to happen to them (e.g., debt, earnings, career opportunities) in favor of believing that they'll be the outliers who avoid all the negatives and have all their plans fulfilled to a T.

There really isn’t that much difference between clinical child psych and school psychology (I bet I just triggered some people with that statement).

There are like what three clinical child psych programs?

But you don't have to complete a strictly "clinical child psych program" to do peds psych. It's the same as people hyperfocusing on programs with neuropsych tracks. They might simplify certain things, but there are plenty of programs that provide equal or better training in these areas without having explicit "tracks."