DO schools be slackin'

[WorldChanger36]

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Just a heads up this is not an MD vs DO thread but more of a WTF moment thread. This year I have read more threads and PMs on horrible interview experiences for persons interviewing at DO schools. I have also talked to multiple persons that have interviewed at DO schools within my masters program. The grand majority is very negative (However this is mostly WCU, ACOM, LECOM-B and NOVA). Every school has been noted at least once. Everything from unprofessional behavior, unethical questions about family life and interrogative style interviews. Last year this was almost unheard of. So my question is what in the world is going on at DO schools to cause this nonsense. Has the influx of applicants made the adcoms not give a crap about who want to go anymore? The kind of if you won't go somebody else will type. I was told that KCUMB was a laid relaxed interview and I and many others had hardcore defeating interviews. Last year people were bragging about PCOM being super professional and now people are talking about yoga pants and interviewers asking horrible questions. What in the world is going on? There has for sure been an increase in the amount of negative reviews of DO schools across the board. Is it just me or have others notice this as well?

 

[411309]

Ive never heard of anyone that had a bad interview experience at acom..PM me your story? I thought the lecom-b interview day was done well, wasnt a fan of the group interview/interviewers seemed kinda uninterested but other then that it didnt seem bad; just not for me. Also WCU is very friendly usually. I will say that people tend to whine a lot, lol.

 

[aglick1187]

take what people say with a grain of salt. if you havent experienced any of this negativity yourself during your own interviews then you shouldnt let it phase you. 🙂

 

[abolt18]

Ive never heard of anyone that had a bad interview experience at acom..PM me your story? I thought the lecom-b interview day was done well, wasnt a fan of the group interview/interviewers seemed kinda uninterested but other then that it didnt seem bad; just not for me. Also WCU is very friendly usually. I will say that people tend to whine a lot, lol.

For REAL! I'm guessing there has been a significant increase in complainers is all.

 

[ndo0604]

--

 

[411309]

Im very surprised to hear about ACOM. The entire time during my interview they made it seem like they wanted me there and wanted me to be a part of this school. They didn't ask me any tough morale questions and just really tried to get to know me as a person, pretty much all my questions were based on my file. I know some people are unhappy because ACOM is WLing a lot of people though, could be those people...just saying. Whenever I email admissions she always gives me a response by the next day. She even emailed me saying how glad she is to hear that ill be a part of their class. I def had the best experience with this school, hence why I chose them, lol.


If SDN represents the applicant pool then im really not surprised people are whining Lol.

 

[Mosonik]

I enjoyed each of the handful of interviews I had and was surprised by how comfortable each was. I can see how MD schools may be more academically focused in interviews (less personal) and DOs being "holistic" may ask questions that people don't necessarily expect but barring discrimination, it's just the nature of the beast

 

[WorldChanger36]

I am pretty sure that SDN reps about 5% of the total applicant pool and the persons in my masters program are even less. In regards to ACOM I know little about it only that the three persons that have discussed it with me said " They seemed to shower them with niceness to cover up something" and they also said " It seemed like they were not getting the whole story." My interview at KCUMB was different the whole day was awesome and I was super stocked about everything then the interview itself happened which really brought down my experience and few of my questions were fully answered which worried me. Perhaps there are more complainers this round however it isn't just SDN. NOVA is another school were people come back saying "NOVA is a bag of hot air and prozac, nothing can ever go wrong there." I understand that if I have not had these experiences they are not reflective on what may happen with me there however it would be unwise to ignore it completely. Believe me guys I get it everybody has good interviews and bad interviews, now that I have my apps out there it just seems to hit closer to home.

 

[411309]

I am pretty sure that SDN reps about 5% of the total applicant pool and the persons in my masters program are even less. In regards to ACOM I know little about it only that the three persons that have discussed it with me said " They seemed to shower them with niceness to cover up something" and they also said " It seemed like they were not getting the whole story." My interview at KCUMB was different the whole day was awesome and I was super stocked about everything then the interview itself happened which really brought down my experience and few of my questions were fully answered which worried me. Perhaps there are more complainers this round however it isn't just SDN. NOVA is another school were people come back saying "NOVA is a bag of hot air and prozac, nothing can ever go wrong there." I understand that if I have not had these experiences they are not reflective on what may happen with me there however it would be unwise to ignore it completely. Believe me guys I get it everybody has good interviews and bad interviews, now that I have my apps out there it just seems to hit closer to home.

lol no offense to you but those are the most ridiculous complaints ive ever heard. If they had quesitons why not just ask? "being nice to cover something up"...maybe acom is just a friendly school? lol. What would they even cover up? They laid everything out... All of these complaints though seem a little lame to me. Im not sure what these people were expecting: to be herded into a glass box in the dark, asked a standard set of 10 questions, then quickly herded out?

 

[chiddler]

lol no offense to you but those are the most ridiculous complaints ive ever heard. If they had quesitons why not just ask? "being nice to cover something up"...maybe acom is just a friendly school? lol. What would they even cover up? They laid everything out... All of these complaints though seem a little lame to me. Im not sure what these people were expecting: to be herded into a glass box in the dark, asked a standard set of 10 questions, then quickly herded out?

seriously. what if they were meaner? "oh good normal mean behavior"?

i'm not sure there's a right answer with that perspective.

 

[thepoopologist]

There is simply no winning, regardless of their behavior, at the end of the season they will be profitable. They will be profitable because the demand is there, so the collective DO community doesn't give two ****s about what you think. Maybe if nobody applied to DO schools, then the interviews would be a lot different. My school continues to get thousands of applications a year and accepts around 30% for a 50% yield. Perhaps if they got 200 applications for 200 spots then their approach would be different.There are only three big things that may make DO applications drop off.

1. ACGME follows through and now an AOA trained intern cannot go into an ACGME residency, or an AOA resident cannot go into a ACGME fellowship. This will significantly affect applications to DO schools, at least to the applicants who are aware of it. If the AOA actually believed in that separate but equal garbage they would not be fighting tooth and nail to keep the resolution from passing. However, the alternative should it pass is that this may force the AOA to keep expanding their own residencies and improving the quality enough for dual ACGME/AOA accreditation. That would help maintain the desirability of a DO degree.

2. LCME accredited schools open at a higher rate than DO schools. Considering how easy it is to open a DO school, I don't see this happening. I mean they plonk down $10 million dollars to buy a building, assorted materials, faculty, and admin. $1 million for lawyers. Then they head to the nearest 3 hospitals and promise free labor ($0->$300,000). Then they call COCA and have them come down for a nice dinner. The grand result is accreditation of the school, and 200 new students paying tuition of $40,000 a head each for four years.

3. Pre-medical students finally tell themselves that if they don't get into a USMD LCME accredited school, that they're finding an alternate career. Definitely not happening, because a medical degree is extremely valuable in society, in income, worthwhile work, and social standing. Otherwise DO schools (in their current state, they were certainly not started to emulate USMD schools), Caribbean schools, and foreign schools with USMD curriculums would not exist. There's an argument that quality students come out of the rest of these schools, and I don't argue that but as you go down the line the overall quality of the class broadens from smart->less smart, smart->average intelligence, smart->dumb, smart->incapable.


TL😀R Everything I've said is pointless, I'm just vomiting my thoughts out. Medical schools are a self-sustaining enterprise and will continue to make money because they offer a valuable degree. If the interviewers all came to the admissions office in their pajamas and hung over, there'll still be students going there as long as it is an accredited medical school that will allow them to practice in the US.

 

[WorldChanger36]

lol no offense to you but those are the most ridiculous complaints ive ever heard. If they had quesitons why not just ask? "being nice to cover something up"...maybe acom is just a friendly school? lol. What would they even cover up? They laid everything out... All of these complaints though seem a little lame to me. Im not sure what these people were expecting: to be herded into a glass box in the dark, asked a standard set of 10 questions, then quickly herded out?

Not sure myself however the context and tone of voice something I can't replicate here really did change how it seemed to come out. They just really made it seem like they were being deceived in someway. I get what you are sayin' colesmalls. I have asked NOVA questions just to get the run around on some things. It just seems like this cycle is different.

 

[411309]

Not sure myself however the context and tone of voice something I can't replicate here really did change how it seemed to come out. They just really made it seem like they were being deceived in someway. I get what you are sayin' colesmalls. I have asked NOVA questions just to get the run around on some things. It just seems like this cycle is different.

I can kind of understand nova because they were impossible to come in contact with before I gave up on them and assumed they silently rejected me, lol. But I have heard NOVA is a solid school. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think your friends completely overthought this. I would think a new school had the least amount of stuff to hide being as they have no match list or board pass rates, lol. Everythings sort out there, they tell you their vision and you either go along with it or dont.

 

[coolingglasses]

What exactly do people think they're covering up with "niceness"? Are they planning on turning the bottom 10% of their students into cadavers for next year's class?

 

[angldrps]

I am pretty sure that SDN reps about 5% of the total applicant pool and the persons in my masters program are even less. In regards to ACOM I know little about it only that the three persons that have discussed it with me said " They seemed to shower them with niceness to cover up something" and they also said " It seemed like they were not getting the whole story." My interview at KCUMB was different the whole day was awesome and I was super stocked about everything then the interview itself happened which really brought down my experience and few of my questions were fully answered which worried me. Perhaps there are more complainers this round however it isn't just SDN. NOVA is another school were people come back saying "NOVA is a bag of hot air and prozac, nothing can ever go wrong there." I understand that if I have not had these experiences they are not reflective on what may happen with me there however it would be unwise to ignore it completely. Believe me guys I get it everybody has good interviews and bad interviews, now that I have my apps out there it just seems to hit closer to home.

I had pretty much the same interview experience as you at KCUMB. I was pretty surprised myself because so many people had told me that the interviews are very conversational. Having said that, I regularly check out the application specific threads for the several school I applied to and the consensus tends to be that most interviewees have a positive interview experience.

 

[411309]

What exactly do people think they're covering up with "niceness"? Are they planning on turning the bottom 10% of their students into cadavers for next year's class?

lol I laughed in real life at this. this may give the first class some motivation at least, Lol

 

[Mbeas]

i interviewed at seven DO schools and never saw any lack of professionalism...not sure what you're talking about

 

[Mosonik]

I can kind of understand nova because they were impossible to come in contact with before I gave up on them and assumed they silently rejected me, lol. But I have heard NOVA is a solid school. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think your friends completely overthought this. I would think a new school had the least amount of stuff to hide being as they have no match list or board pass rates, lol. Everythings sort out there, they tell you their vision and you either go along with it or dont.

I am not overly invested in this conversation but you hit the nail on the head with this comment and I'm not just saying that because I'm enrolling in a new one. It's the truth that there's nothing to hide because they are NEW lol

I would credit the "niceness" to two things: one, it's the South, people are nice. two, new schools do have some selling to do to students, it's not a bad thing it's just the way it is

 

[psychgirrrl]

I interviewed at Nova and my interview was pretty hard but you don't hear me complaining about the opportunity to interview at a school with a solid reputation and amazing opportunities. I think people like to find things wrong with everything, I don't understand how admissions could be "too nice" to you...maybe they are just really nice and you are a little jaded. Trust me, I know this process is difficult but complaining about how nice a school was to you during interview day is a little uncalled for.

Also, an interview is a test. I don't understand why everyone wants it to be all rainbows and ponies when they sit down to talk to their interviewer.

 

[Life Sucks]

As long as they aren't asking what's Paracetamoxyfrusebendroneomycin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlmEc8rd_Nw&feature=related

 

[timmaycakes]

Even if this was a widespread problem, I don't think it is more prevalent in DO schools. I have friends who have had terrible MD interviewers asking personal questions, goading statements, etc. As stated by some people some interviews are meant to be tough, but some interviewers take it too far. Luck of the draw I guess.

From personal experience, my interview at LECOM-E was very professional. My interviewers were a little tough but fair, but the people next door came out looking a little shell-shocked. The orientation was more relaxed but I think it was designed that way to calm a room full of anxious pre-meds down 😀

 

[Mbeas]

Also, an interview is a test. I don't understand why everyone wants it to be all rainbows and ponies when they sit down to talk to their interviewer.

I sort of disagree. An interview shouldn't seem like a test, it should just be a (formal) conversation. A good interviewer knows what kinds of questions to ask and he/she can do so in a conversational manner. I'm not saying it should be "rainbows and ponies", but it shouldn't be a grill session either. Frankly, I see grill sessions as a poor reflection on the interviewer.

I had a job interview one time with the most piss poor interviewers I've ever encountered. They had no personality. All they did was read questions from a piece of paper as if it actually was a test. A good interviewer gets to actually know you through a calm discussion and elicits the vital information.

 

[psychgirrrl]

I sort of disagree. An interview shouldn't seem like a test, it should just be a (formal) conversation. A good interviewer knows what kinds of questions to ask and he/she can do so in a conversational manner. I'm not saying it should be "rainbows and ponies", but it shouldn't be a grill session either. Frankly, I see grill sessions as a poor reflection on the interviewer.

I had a job interview one time with the most piss poor interviewers I've ever encountered. They had no personality. All they did was read questions from a piece of paper as if it actually was a test. A good interviewer gets to actually know you through a calm discussion and elicits the vital information.

Sure, I agree. If you have a good interviewer it won't feel like a test...but deep down it is a test a test of your personality and a test of your fit into that school and their expectations of you. Of course this is my opinion but that is how I approach the whole situation. I also agree that it shouldn't be a grill session but expect to be asked hard questions.

 

[mangoshakes]

my interview experience at TCOM was wonderful.

 

[BabyDoc86]

I've had four interviews so far this cycle and have had pleasant experiences at all of them. But I have noticed quite a bit of complaints this cycle too. Strange.

 

[zoner]

I've had four interviews so far this cycle and have had pleasant experiences at all of them. But I have noticed quite a bit of complaints this cycle too. Strange.

Same here except for one where I was totally bored. I haven't really heard many complaints about the interviews though. about the schools yes but not about the interview

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

 

[HalfListic]

I've had 7 interview this season, including 2 MD, and they were all either fun or challenging. At one school, a DO school, the candidate who interviewed just before me came out with some tears in her eyes, which sort of freaked me out as I passed her to go interview with the same interviewers. But, I found that they were the type that just tried to test you on your confidence and knowledge of yourself and the profession. They would take things from your PS and other essays that you portrayed as strengths, present them to you as a weakness, and then ask why you had that "personality flaw" lol...if you got what they were doing, you could just represent it as a positive and support it, but if not Im sure it was very stressful. Then, one of my MD schools were just relentless about knowing everything from basic science facts to current issues...sort of a stress test. I like those situations though, but it was exhausting. The other five were all very pleasant and even fun. I think Marian and SOMA were the most fun, and those of you who have interviewed there would probably know why.


Anyway, I really think that finding a medical school is a personal thing. In the interview day, you find out the personality of the school and you can feel if you like it or you don't. I know some people wont understand me choosing DO over MD, or one school over another, but most of us realize that all schools will train us and give us the opportunity to become what we want to be.

 

[ModernAlchemist]

I've had 7 interview this season, including 2 MD, and they were all either fun or challenging. At one school, a DO school, the candidate who interviewed just before me came out with some tears in her eyes, which sort of freaked me out as I passed her to go interview with the same interviewers. But, I found that they were the type that just tried to test you on your confidence and knowledge of yourself and the profession. They would take things from your PS and other essays that you portrayed as strengths, present them to you as a weakness, and then ask why you had that "personality flaw" lol...if you got what they were doing, you could just represent it as a positive and support it, but if not Im sure it was very stressful. Then, one of my MD schools were just relentless about knowing everything from basic science facts to current issues...sort of a stress test. I like those situations though, but it was exhausting. The other five were all very pleasant and even fun. I think Marian and SOMA were the most fun, and those of you who have interviewed there would probably know why.

Anyway, I really think that finding a medical school is a personal thing. In the interview day, you find out the personality of the school and you can feel if you like it or you don't. I know some people wont understand me choosing DO over MD, or one school over another, but most of us realize that all schools will train us and give us the opportunity to become what we want to be.

Great post👍👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

Just a heads up this is not an MD vs DO thread but more of a WTF moment thread. This year I have read more threads and PMs on horrible interview experiences for persons interviewing at DO schools. I have also talked to multiple persons that have interviewed at DO schools within my masters program. The grand majority is very negative (However this is mostly WCU, ACOM, LECOM-B and NOVA). Every school has been noted at least once. Everything from unprofessional behavior, unethical questions about family life and interrogative style interviews. Last year this was almost unheard of. So my question is what in the world is going on at DO schools to cause this nonsense. Has the influx of applicants made the adcoms not give a crap about who want to go anymore? The kind of if you won't go somebody else will type. I was told that KCUMB was a laid relaxed interview and I and many others had hardcore defeating interviews. Last year people were bragging about PCOM being super professional and now people are talking about yoga pants and interviewers asking horrible questions. What in the world is going on? There has for sure been an increase in the amount of negative reviews of DO schools across the board. Is it just me or have others notice this as well?

I think it has more to do with the people than the schools. Granted, different schools have different flavors and atmospheres. This is bound to turn some people off and others on. This is why the interview is largely a two way street.

lol no offense to you but those are the most ridiculous complaints ive ever heard. If they had quesitons why not just ask? "being nice to cover something up"...maybe acom is just a friendly school? lol. What would they even cover up? They laid everything out... All of these complaints though seem a little lame to me. Im not sure what these people were expecting: to be herded into a glass box in the dark, asked a standard set of 10 questions, then quickly herded out?

Agreed.... I have never heard of anyone complaining that a school was too nice. Maybe they just thought med interviews were supposed to be cutthroat and brutal and didnt know what to do when that wasnt the case?

i interviewed at seven DO schools and never saw any lack of professionalism...not sure what you're talking about

I saw a few things on the interview trail that bugged me at DO schools. The MS4 in an interview wouldnt ask me anything except how I studied for the MCAT which was a little weird..... There was also a little pow-wow b**** fest while we awaited our individual interviews where applicants and current students complained about how lame MDs are. That one rubbed me the wrong way in the face of the "we are all the same" arguments that will get used in the very next breath.

 

[Mbeas]

I saw a few things on the interview trail that bugged me at DO schools. The MS4 in an interview wouldnt ask me anything except how I studied for the MCAT which was a little weird.....

this is weird

I didn't know people actually talked about the MCAT once med school started

 

[488677]

Just a heads up this is not an MD vs DO thread but more of a WTF moment thread. This year I have read more threads and PMs on horrible interview experiences for persons interviewing at DO schools. I have also talked to multiple persons that have interviewed at DO schools within my masters program. The grand majority is very negative (However this is mostly WCU, ACOM, LECOM-B and NOVA). Every school has been noted at least once. Everything from unprofessional behavior, unethical questions about family life and interrogative style interviews. Last year this was almost unheard of. So my question is what in the world is going on at DO schools to cause this nonsense. Has the influx of applicants made the adcoms not give a crap about who want to go anymore? The kind of if you won't go somebody else will type. I was told that KCUMB was a laid relaxed interview and I and many others had hardcore defeating interviews. Last year people were bragging about PCOM being super professional and now people are talking about yoga pants and interviewers asking horrible questions. What in the world is going on? There has for sure been an increase in the amount of negative reviews of DO schools across the board. Is it just me or have others notice this as well?

You didn't hear? All the DO schools got together this year to discuss increasing their levels of douchebaggery. I'm anxious to hear how this decision plays out for them.

MD schools on the other hand decided to decrease their douchebaggery levels and push lollipops and rainbows. So brave. So very brave.

 

[488677]

I've had 7 interview this season, including 2 MD, and they were all either fun or challenging. At one school, a DO school, the candidate who interviewed just before me came out with some tears in her eyes, which sort of freaked me out as I passed her to go interview with the same interviewers. But, I found that they were the type that just tried to test you on your confidence and knowledge of yourself and the profession. They would take things from your PS and other essays that you portrayed as strengths, present them to you as a weakness, and then ask why you had that "personality flaw" lol...if you got what they were doing, you could just represent it as a positive and support it, but if not Im sure it was very stressful. Then, one of my MD schools were just relentless about knowing everything from basic science facts to current issues...sort of a stress test. I like those situations though, but it was exhausting. The other five were all very pleasant and even fun. I think Marian and SOMA were the most fun, and those of you who have interviewed there would probably know why.


Anyway, I really think that finding a medical school is a personal thing. In the interview day, you find out the personality of the school and you can feel if you like it or you don't. I know some people wont understand me choosing DO over MD, or one school over another, but most of us realize that all schools will train us and give us the opportunity to become what we want to be.

👍👍👍

 

[SpecterGT260]

this is weird

I didn't know people actually talked about the MCAT once med school started

it struck me as odd.... she wouldnt get off the subject. Almost struck me like she was looking for study advice.... but that is a little silly to ask a pre med that.

 

[Goro]

This is what's known as a sampling error. The people who are more pissed off (or immature) post about it, while all the happy interviewees don't post. Hence, your flawed perception.

Just a heads up this is not an MD vs DO thread but more of a WTF moment thread. This year I have read more threads and PMs on horrible interview experiences for persons interviewing at DO schools. I have also talked to multiple persons that have interviewed at DO schools within my masters program. The grand majority is very negative (However this is mostly WCU, ACOM, LECOM-B and NOVA). Every school has been noted at least once. Everything from unprofessional behavior, unethical questions about family life and interrogative style interviews. Last year this was almost unheard of. So my question is what in the world is going on at DO schools to cause this nonsense. Has the influx of applicants made the adcoms not give a crap about who want to go anymore? The kind of if you won't go somebody else will type. I was told that KCUMB was a laid relaxed interview and I and many others had hardcore defeating interviews. Last year people were bragging about PCOM being super professional and now people are talking about yoga pants and interviewers asking horrible questions. What in the world is going on? There has for sure been an increase in the amount of negative reviews of DO schools across the board. Is it just me or have others notice this as well?

 

[411309]

This is one of those rare moments were I completely agree with specter, lol.

 

[SpecterGT260]

This is one of those rare moments were I completely agree with specter, lol.

we agree more often than we don't. You're just still mad that I didn't put icing on it when I said your stats were going to make things difficult (i.e. not impossible. If you'd like, go back and read the number of times I told you only to not get complacent while you were busy calling names and making rage faces)

It's really just about time for you to get over that discussion 👍

 

[Mbeas]

This is what's known as a sampling error. The people who are more pissed off (or immature) post about it, while all the happy interviewees don't post. Hence, your flawed perception.

 

[coolingglasses]

we agree more often than we don't. You're just still mad that I didn't put icing on it when I said your stats were going to make things difficult (i.e. not impossible. If you'd like, go back and read the number of times I told you only to not get complacent while you were busy calling names and making rage faces)

It's really just about time for you to get over that discussion 👍

to be fair, it sounds like you're a little salty yourself

easy on the ramen 😉

 

[SpecterGT260]

to be fair, it sounds like you're a little salty yourself

easy on the ramen 😉

Never denied that

The thing is, I only recognize my buddy Cole here on the forums when he brings up that 2-3 month old thread. Otherwise he is just someone to respond to if the content of the post warrants it.

 

[dudeliness]

i interviewed at seven DO schools and never saw any lack of professionalism...not sure what you're talking about

Same here. All of my interviews went quite well.

 

[virtuoso735]

My interviews at DMU and AZCOM were professional and well done. Especially DMU's. I think that may have been one of the best interviews I went to, DO or MD. I like to have things to do during my interview day, and DMU's interview day had things for us to do the whole day.

 

[se20001984]

Great experience with my DO interviews...

 

[wackboard]

my interview at LECOM-B was wonderful. They were the by far the nicest and made it feel more like a conversation than an actual interview.

 

[WorldChanger36]

Got some awesome responses. So thanks everybody. I think some misunderstood my intent with this thread. I just wanted to point out the difference between this year and the last few years. My interview was not what I was expecting at all. While I felt more negative about it, it was still a great experience. Criticism is a lost art, I have always seen it as a road map to improvement, however most people rarely see it that way.

 

[WorldChanger36]

This is what's known as a sampling error. The people who are more pissed off (or immature) post about it, while all the happy interviewees don't post. Hence, your flawed perception.

Actually this is not correct. The majority of posts about schools are very positive. I have just noticed a strong increase in negative reviews, experiences similar to mine and less of a desire to jump on the positive band wagon. Last year there were many more two sided reviews. This year it seems more I loved it or I hated it. Happy interviewees post all the time often multiple times. Negative reviewers not so much.

 

[scpod]

There has for sure been an increase in the amount of negative reviews of DO schools across the board. Is it just me or have others notice this as well?

You gave us your opinion, so I'll give you mine. Personally, I think you are just trying to stir up trouble and you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[WorldChanger36]

You gave us your opinion, so I'll give you mine. Personally, I think you are just trying to stir up trouble and you have no idea what you are talking about.

Thank you opinion noted.