DO shadowing advice

[Corpsman Up]

Hey everyone. I am shadowing a DO tomorrow evening and want to know if anyone has any advice on how to not be annoying or come off as an idiot.

I have a ton of prior healthcare experience, so I dont have any questions about what its like to be a doctor or anything (im just doing this because I will need an LOR), so what kind of questions should I ask?

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[just one]

Don't ask: "why aren't you a MD?"

 

[gatewasani]

yep, i'm in the same situation...

hope I don't sound like an idiot...

Should I dress normally or dress up a little because I shadowed another doctor before and he got mad that I wasn't dressed up, but I think he was kinda weird.

 

[just one]

You should ask the dress code before hand. If you are shadowing in an ER or surgical setting, dressing up is not always advised. In a family practice, I always wore slacks and button up shirt. Dress professionally. FWIW, many times I'd be dressed up and the physician would be in jeans and sweater.

 

[DmanGTR]

Dress appropriately. Many hospitals don't approve of neckties. Slacks and a button down shirt is always safe. Bring a lab coat just in case.

Before starting the day, ask the doc if it will be ok to take notes, ask questions, or interact while the doc is with a patient. Most of the time, you simply observe and ask questions later (when the patient is not around).

Don't be offended if some patients would rather not have a student around when they're being seen.

Have some questions prepared for the doc. It's ok to ask him why he chose DO instead of MD.

Things I have asked:
What influenced you to pursue your specialty?
What do you think is different from the allopathic view in the way you treat your patients?
Depending on the doc's specialty, I would ask whatever comes to mind regarding certain drug interactions, anatomical relationships/importance of such, etc...

Make sure you show that you're interested and enthusiastic. Nothing like a dead beat student to add to the stress of a long day at work.

After the shadowing, send the doc a thank you card via mail (not email, not phone call), ESPECIALLY if he's writing you a LOR.

 

[Corpsman Up]

Dress appropriately. Many hospitals don't approve of neckties. Slacks and a button down shirt is always safe. Bring a lab coat just in case.

Before starting the day, ask the doc if it will be ok to take notes, ask questions, or interact while the doc is with a patient. Most of the time, you simply observe and ask questions later (when the patient is not around).

Don't be offended if some patients would rather not have a student around when they're being seen.

Have some questions prepared for the doc. It's ok to ask him why he chose DO instead of MD.

Things I have asked:
What influenced you to pursue your specialty?
What do you think is different from the allopathic view in the way you treat your patients?
Depending on the doc's specialty, I would ask whatever comes to mind regarding certain drug interactions, anatomical relationships/importance of such, etc...

Make sure you show that you're interested and enthusiastic. Nothing like a dead beat student to add to the stress of a long day at work.

After the shadowing, send the doc a thank you card via mail (not email, not phone call), ESPECIALLY if he's writing you a LOR.

Thanks for the advice, the thank you letter via regular mail seems like a good idea.

 

[Corpsman Up]

yep, i'm in the same situation...

hope I don't sound like an idiot...

Should I dress normally or dress up a little because I shadowed another doctor before and he got mad that I wasn't dressed up, but I think he was kinda weird.

Im shadowing an ER doc during the overnight shift. The only thing he told me about attire was "no shirt, no jeans". Im taking this to mean button down and slacks. I am debating wearing a tie, but in an ER setting I doubt thats advised

 

[Corpsman Up]

Im shadowing an ER doc during the overnight shift. The only thing he told me about attire was "no shirt, no jeans". Im taking this to mean button down and slacks. I am debating wearing a tie, but in an ER setting I doubt thats advised

WHOOPS!! I meant "nice shirt, no jeans"

 

[MSmentor018]

I have a ton of prior healthcare experience, so I dont have any questions about what its like to be a doctor or anything (im just doing this because I will need an LOR), so what kind of questions should I ask?

I've got a ton myself...I am assuming you're military background also so the biggest "don't be a douche" mistakes are:
1. walking in the telling them your background
2. thinking you don't have questions about being a physician
3. letting them know you're only here for a letter (they may already suspect that)
4. being cocky/overconfident with knowledge.....they'll see right through it

ask about being a DO and the current issues? where for school/residency? 3 vs 4 yr programs. married/children? how to balance? pts you see in a shift? what did you do before DO? current roles besides EM? the whole purpose to find something in common and hopefully connect. introduce your background towards the end of the night in the conversations, if you speak enough proper medical jargon, they'll pick up that you're not the average student and you shouldn't even have to.

the conservative nice shirt, slacks, tie combo is good. some community places I've taught at it was the code, some just scurbs but you can't go wrong with the conserative look. lab jacket, and student ID badge just for appearance. I'd even bring a stethoscope, there might be something cool to hear. at least it'll gives the appearance that your hoping to hear something. I'd hold off on note taking unless it's for getting contact info. ask 1 or 2 BRIEF questions about the patients, even if you know the answer. the last thing they want to do is drop their productivity level to explain things. ask the nurses questions too. it's your first and maybe only impression so keep your military bearing at all times, you'll be fine. if you hit it off, ask to come back again. the more they get to know you, the more personable the letter will sound. bring the cover letter info, address/stamped envelope, and your CV for them. a little thank you card in a week or so is appropriate. if they give you the letter, that's even better. good luck on DO school

 

[JaggerPlate]

Dress accordingly, be polite, be interested but not annoying, don't be nervous ... it's fun (imo). Just go with the flow.

 

[vpv]

Hey, not meaning to "hijack" the thread but I was just wondering if shadowing Canadian D.O.'s is looked in the same way as an American D.O. Osteopaths in Canada, from what I know are different from the Osteopathic practitioners in the States. In the future, I do want to apply to a D.O. school in the States and I was just wondering about this fact. Also, if someone can perhaps link me to a Canadian Osteopathic doctor's site, it would be helpful.
Thank you.

 

[gatewasani]

shadowing was really cool today, I really enjoyed it, such a beneficial use of my time.

My doc was a real nice, down to earth guy who all the patients loved.

If you haven't shadowed yet...doooooooooooooooooo ittttttttttt

 

[Morsetlis]

My DO let me spend the first 5 min with patients taking history and doing physical exams. I just do the EMT trauma exam...

Not sure if this is legal, but it's fun.

 

[Corpsman Up]

shadowing was really cool today, I really enjoyed it, such a beneficial use of my time.

My doc was a real nice, down to earth guy who all the patients loved.

If you haven't shadowed yet...doooooooooooooooooo ittttttttttt

My first shadowing experience was so-so. The doc was a nice guy for taking the time to allow me to shadow, and I greatly appreciate it, but the experience itself wasnt too beneficial. I shadowed for about 3hrs (midnight to 3am) in the ED, and I didnt get a chance to ask many questions because it was busy (totally understandable). When I was leaving, he said I wouldnt be able to shadow again because this was a one time, unofficial thing. I wish I had known that before hand, as I am looking for an on-going experience that will eventually lead to LOR.

On the upside, I did get to spend quite a bit of time with a 4yr medical student doing this rotation. He was more than willing to tell me everything he knew about everything! It was great to talk with someone that was at the end of the long road im just starting

 

[DrMom]

My first shadowing experience was so-so. The doc was a nice guy for taking the time to allow me to shadow, and I greatly appreciate it, but the experience itself wasnt too beneficial. I shadowed for about 3hrs (midnight to 3am) in the ED, and I didnt get a chance to ask many questions because it was busy (totally understandable). When I was leaving, he said I wouldnt be able to shadow again because this was a one time, unofficial thing. I wish I had known that before hand, as I am looking for an on-going experience that will eventually lead to LOR.

On the upside, I did get to spend quite a bit of time with a 4yr medical student doing this rotation. He was more than willing to tell me everything he knew about everything! It was great to talk with someone that was at the end of the long road im just starting

Pre-med shadowing is about seeing what the practice of medicine is like, not about learning any medicine. You got to see 3 hrs of EM, so I'm not sure why you think it wasn't beneficial. I do understand the frustration of not being able to get an LOR out of it, but still be appreciative of the Dr being willing to let you follow him for a while.

 

[Corpsman Up]

Pre-med shadowing is about seeing what the practice of medicine is like, not about learning any medicine. You got to see 3 hrs of EM, so I'm not sure why you think it wasn't beneficial. I do understand the frustration of not being able to get an LOR out of it, but still be appreciative of the Dr being willing to let you follow him for a while.

I am appreciative for him allowing me to do it. But it was not beneficial for me personally because I worked in an ED for a few years while I was in the Navy. I worked side-by-side with ER docs, so I wasnt shadowing to see what it was like. I know that many DO schools require LOR from a DO, which is why I am shadowing.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I am appreciative for him allowing me to do it. But it was not beneficial for me personally because I worked in an ED for a few years while I was in the Navy. I worked side-by-side with ER docs, so I wasnt shadowing to see what it was like. I know that many DO schools require LOR from a DO, which is why I am shadowing.

It's always nice when docs allow you to shadow, but some doc simply know how to be a 'shadower' better than others. Most of the time, it's tough for docs to slow down what they are doing and explain things to a student, or purposely show them things they normally wouldn't do, etc. I think as docs get older and have more and more students shadow them, they become better at it. It's a learning curve, like everything else in life. I shadowed one doc in an ER and it was the same way ... he was young, just went about his job, didn't even really talk to me, etc, then another one who allows shadowing all the time, and he essentially had like a set playbill (hahah).

I liked shadowing though ... it was always interesting. I still want to shadow an OMM specialist at some point. Hahaha

 

[jslo85]

It's always nice when docs allow you to shadow, but some doc simply know how to be a 'shadower' better than others. Most of the time, it's tough for docs to slow down what they are doing and explain things to a student, or purposely show them things they normally wouldn't do, etc. I think as docs get older and have more and more students shadow them, they become better at it. It's a learning curve, like everything else in life. I shadowed one doc in an ER and it was the same way ... he was young, just went about his job, didn't even really talk to me, etc, then another one who allows shadowing all the time, and he essentially had like a set playbill (hahah).

I liked shadowing though ... it was always interesting. I still want to shadow an OMM specialist at some point. Hahaha

Yeah I agree completely with Jagger. Some doctors are simply better or more inclined to allowing the student more "education" than others. At the same time, you really can't even blame them at all because they're doing you a favor and at the same time they have a responsibility to their patients and often have to consider whether having a student following will slow down his practice (say he's private) or if it will trouble the patient at all.

Really try and shadow an OMM/NMM certified physician, it's a great experience. OMM was the primary reason I want to go D.O. and when I followed an OMM specialist, he had a 3rd year from Western Univ's Northwest Track with him so it was really informative to have the student show you what he/she's actually doing. I got to see counterstrain, muscle energy. LVLA etc. and the nice thing is the patients that saw him weren't the usual referred ones but returning patients who truly believed in the treatment they were getting. OMM/NMM physicians have a really great perspective too and it's inspirational if I can really call it that to hear of the many situations/experiences that the physician had where OMM has really made a positive difference.

 

[Corpsman Up]

Yeah I agree completely with Jagger. Some doctors are simply better or more inclined to allowing the student more "education" than others. At the same time, you really can't even blame them at all because they're doing you a favor and at the same time they have a responsibility to their patients and often have to consider whether having a student following will slow down his practice (say he's private) or if it will trouble the patient at all.

Really try and shadow an OMM/NMM certified physician, it's a great experience. OMM was the primary reason I want to go D.O. and when I followed an OMM specialist, he had a 3rd year from Western Univ's Northwest Track with him so it was really informative to have the student show you what he/she's actually doing. I got to see counterstrain, muscle energy. LVLA etc. and the nice thing is the patients that saw him weren't the usual referred ones but returning patients who truly believed in the treatment they were getting. OMM/NMM physicians have a really great perspective too and it's inspirational if I can really call it that to hear of the many situations/experiences that the physician had where OMM has really made a positive difference.

Thats something I am looking into. The doc I shadowed had been working in the ED for a little over 20yrs, and seemed kinda jaded. I asked him if he did OMM and he said "not anymore because too many free-loaders thought I was their personal chiropractor", I then asked him if he did any patient education with regards to lifestyle choices (we had just seen an obese woman with back pain) and he said "not anymore, its just a waste of time because they dont listen anyway".

Im looking for a shadowing experience with a younger, more enthusiastic doc that still enjoys/believes in what they are doing

 

[jslo85]

to be honest, the younger doctors are usually the ones who are more concerned with their practice and see you as being a potential problem. That is purely from my experience.

The older established doctors are usually the ones who will help to guide you along. Try finding ones who are contracted with the medical school as clinical preceptors for the medical students and ask them to walk you through the same way. NMM/OMM specialists are usually really good on allowing patients to shadow.

 

[JaggerPlate]

to be honest, the younger doctors are usually the ones who are more concerned with their practice and see you as being a potential problem. That is purely from my experience.

The older established doctors are usually the ones who will help to guide you along. Try finding ones who are contracted with the medical school as clinical preceptors for the medical students and ask them to walk you through the same way. NMM/OMM specialists are usually really good on allowing patients to shadow.

Where was the NMM/OMM specialist you shadowed?

 

[jslo85]

Where was the NMM/OMM specialist you shadowed?

http://www.healthgrades.com/directo...dr-md-reports/Dr-Brian-Knight-DO-556F7B53.cfm

He was the second D.O. I shadowed because OMM was really what led me to go the osteopathic route. The first one ran a family medicine practice and I only saw four or so "OMM" HVLA style procedures which gave mixed results/responses from the patients but I have to thank him for helping point me in this direction.

You're going to be at KCOM this fall no? You can follow some at the NRMC I'm sure.

 

[JaggerPlate]

http://www.healthgrades.com/directo...dr-md-reports/Dr-Brian-Knight-DO-556F7B53.cfm

He was the second D.O. I shadowed because OMM was really what led me to go the osteopathic route. The first one ran a family medicine practice and I only saw four or so "OMM" HVLA style procedures which gave mixed results/responses from the patients but I have to thank him for helping point me in this direction.

You're going to be at KCOM this fall no? You can follow some at the NRMC I'm sure.

For sure. I was just hoping this doc may be down my ways a bit, though I figured it was the Wash/OR area, and I have no free time now anyway. Hahaha.

 

[jslo85]

haha hopefully i'll see you there. It won't be for medical school class but if I do get accepted in their MBS program, I'll be taking gross anatomy/physio with you guys.

 

[JaggerPlate]

haha hopefully i'll see you there. It won't be for medical school class but if I do get accepted in their MBS program, I'll be taking gross anatomy/physio with you guys.

Sweet. We should hang out. Are you planning on going to KCOM eventually (ie after MBS)?

 

[jslo85]

Yeah i think most of the people in the program (only 10-11 each year) have the idea to matriculate into medical school after completion. Most actually should apply right after spring. There is a biomedical track which focuses primarily around biochem and another course which is where their research will take them to, either physio/immunology/microbiology etc. and you'll see them (8-9) in those classes.

If I do get in (did my interview last week so hopefully will know soon), I should be one of the one or two MBS students in the anatomy track which will be focused around taking gross anatomy/dissections. KCOM is my first choice for D.O. so hopefully things work out, but I will at least try for OHSU as well because my family is there in Portland.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Yeah i think most of the people in the program (only 10-11 each year) have the idea to matriculate into medical school after completion. Most actually should apply right after spring. There is a biomedical track which focuses primarily around biochem and another course which is where their research will take them to, either physio/immunology/microbiology etc. and you'll see them (8-9) in those classes.

If I do get in (did my interview last week so hopefully will know soon), I should be one of the one or two MBS students in the anatomy track which will be focused around taking gross anatomy/dissections. KCOM is my first choice for D.O. so hopefully things work out, but I will at least try for OHSU as well because my family is there in Portland.

I met someone during the interview day (student ambassador) who was in a MS program there (not sure if it was the same one), but he said from his program there's a really good chance of getting into KCOM after doing your MS there. The anatomy track sounds fun! KCOM became my first choice after I interviewed there as well ... their program is top notch.