Do Sim Labs matter?

[Mavs88]

It seems that a high tech simulation lab is pretty standard for DO schools. You have the normal dummy, mom and baby dummies, standardized patients and rooms, etc. I'm trying to gauge how important this is and whether it's just a bells and whistles type of thing..

For current medical students, have you seen any of these, particularly the dummies make a difference? Were they useful for years 3 and 4 in rotations? And I mean for things like putting in IVs, intubation, etc.

How about standardized patients and interacting with the actors and doing medical write ups?

Thanks!

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[docycle]

Also interested to know current student opinions. I'd guess it does make a difference in terms of mitigating the initial shock of having to deal with a patient. This way, we can take it slow, know what we need to do, make and correct most of the rookie mistakes in advance, and go into our first real patient encounters with confidence and competence. That's at least the way I see it. I mean, if I'm gonna bumble and fumble at the start, I'd rather not do that in front of a real patient that might actually be harmed by my incompetence.

 

[DO2015CA]

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[DO2015CA]

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[docycle]

Nnnnnoooooopppppeeee. They are fun and you do learn a lot but they aren't enough to choose a school over another if you love another school without one

So you're talking about sims here, right? Or sims and standardized patients?

 

[AlteredScale]

It seems that a high tech simulation lab is pretty standard for DO schools. You have the normal dummy, mom and baby dummies, standardized patients and rooms, etc. I'm trying to gauge how important this is and whether it's just a bells and whistles type of thing..

For current medical students, have you seen any of these, particularly the dummies make a difference? Were they useful for years 3 and 4 in rotations? And I mean for things like putting in IVs, intubation, etc.

How about standardized patients and interacting with the actors and doing medical write ups?

Thanks!

IMO, the dummies don't help much. Doing an IV on plastic arm? Foley catheter on a fake bajingo? No thanks. Would rather try it in third year. Even just learning the technqiue right now I'm sure to forget it witout practicing on a rule patient. I think the dummies work if you have a schedule where you are working with real patients as preparation. But the first two years? Meh.

The standardized patient exams are IMO a great way to shape you up and learn how to do a quick and thorough patient work up while working through a quick differential. KCU has very high standards by putting the Step 2 clinical skills time limit (14 min to interview, 9 to write the note) form the get go and increasing the requirements for each exam. If I was asked to do a problem focused interview for a patient and write a SOAP I would (at this moment) feel pretty confident to do so.

 

[Rekt]

IMO, the dummies don't help much. Doing an IV on plastic arm? Foley catheter on a fake bajingo? No thanks. Would rather try it in third year. Even just learning the technqiue right now I'm sure to forget it witout practicing on a rule patient. I think the dummies work if you have a schedule where you are working with real patients as preparation. But the first two years? Meh.

The standardized patient exams are IMO a great way to shape you up and learn how to do a quick and thorough patient work up while working through a quick differential. KCU has very high standards by putting the Step 2 clinical skills time limit (14 min to interview, 9 to write the note) form the get go and increasing the requirements for each exam. If I was asked to do a problem focused interview for a patient and write a SOAP I would (at this moment) feel pretty confident to do so.

Yep.
A sim is nice to get your feet wet, once or twice max. So you at least have some idea of what's going on when you try a real patient. Anything beyond that is wasting precious study time.

Sounds like same set up SOAP at my school as well.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Schools are purchasing random eye candy to attract students.

In our OMM lab the old tables we replaced out with new ones that are adjustable and all sorts of weird crap. A majority of the students don't care that you can adjust the tables now. I heard they spent a pretty penny on them.

In the OMM lab right after winter break we were told all the TVs had been replaced out with thinner ones. This was 30 minutes into lab and not a single person had noticed it until it was mentioned.

Don't fall for the eye candy they throw at you. Ask about the essentials that matter. What is the curriculum like, how much time for boards, how are rotation sites picked etc.

 

[crazyboi1993]

I remember when interviewing at CUSOM, I was amazed at their sim center, it was so nice, but I chose LECOM-B at the end, I feel like its literally eye candy, its nice but at the end of the day its not that important

 

[Mad Jack]

Having worked with real patients for years, I can tell you completely and honestly that you'll learn more in one week of dealing with actual patients than you'll learn from any number of simulations.

 

[AM508]

Having worked with real patients for years, I can tell you completely and honestly that you'll learn more in one week of dealing with actual patients than you'll learn from any number of simulations.

I agree in total with my learned colleague here. Simulations are useful only for those who have had no practical healthcare exposure. A real patient can teach you much more. I spent 12 years in a high volume EMS system prior to medical school and each one of my patients taught me light-years more than a round at the sim lab has. My school has a very legit sim lab, but having started thousands of IV's and intubated well over 100 real patients, even $120,000 simulators have nothing on the real thing. I generally skip all simulations that aren't required. I do think that standardized patients though are a nice way to work on interview and assessment skills though (all of those upper and lower extremity tests anyone? ). SP's are nice for being able to run through things a time or two before being unleashed on real patients. But yeah, sim labs, fun toys for those with little exposure, but otherwise they don't add much.

 

[samac]

Schools are purchasing random eye candy to attract students.

In our OMM lab the old tables we replaced out with new ones that are adjustable and all sorts of weird crap. A majority of the students don't care that you can adjust the tables now. I heard they spent a pretty penny on them.

In the OMM lab right after winter break we were told all the TVs had been replaced out with thinner ones. This was 30 minutes into lab and not a single person had noticed it until it was mentioned.

Don't fall for the eye candy they throw at you. Ask about the essentials that matter. What is the curriculum like, how much time for boards, how are rotation sites picked etc.

The fact the tables adjust is my favorite thing in OMM lab. But I'm very short

 

[Mbeas]

For current medical students, have you seen any of these, particularly the dummies make a difference? Were they useful for years 3 and 4 in rotations? And I mean for things like putting in IVs, intubation, etc.

These things are only good to practice technique. Suturing, intubating, IV's, and just about everything else is very different when you do it on a person. Don't pick a school because they have some super high tech sim lab. As everyone has stated, it's just "eye candy".

SP's are a slightly different story. Pick the school that is going to mirror COMLEX PE the most, because in the end, that is the purpose of SP's: to pass PE (and to not look like a total rookie when you start rotations). The way my school structured our standardized patient encounters was almost identical to PE, so I didn't even need to practice at all when I took it.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

They're not bad to practice some techniques. But they're hardly impressive.

 

[purplecricket]

The fact the tables adjust is my favorite thing in OMM lab. But I'm very short

Literally one of the things I was worried about when I first started considering DO. The OMM doc I shadowed assured me that my under 5' tall self could do just fine