Do students from state schools have a disadvantage getting into top med schools?

[TurkSurg]

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[ensuii]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Imagine you are an adcom filling the very last seat in an entering class and there are 2 candidates. Both have identical GPAs/MCATs, great activies/honors/EC and fantastic LORs. The only different between the two is that one went to Princeton and the other went to San Fran State Uni. Who would you pick?

Being from a lesser-known school isn't going to close any doors for you...but it also might not give you as much leeway in the eyes of adcoms. Just IMO. I could be wrong.

 

[apumic]

[sarcasm]Definitely. Students who come from a state school really shouldn't even bother applying to med schools that rank higher than their state school; it'd be application suicide. If you really want to go to a top med school, you absolutely must go to Stanferd, Princetahn, Yayle or Hahvahd. No exceptions.[/sarcasm]

 

[TurkSurg]

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[ensuii]

umm ?

He's being sarcastic.

 

[apumic]

[sarcasm]Definitely. Students who come from a state school really shouldn't even bother applying to med schools that rank higher than their state school; it'd be application suicide. If you really want to go to a top med school, you absolutely must go to Stanferd, Princetahn, Yayle or Hahvahd. No exceptions.[/sarcasm]

umm ?

I guess sarcasm is lost on this one. Sorry, dude! Should've read your post after you posted it, the sarcasm tags were a bit more obvious 😉

But the answer is no.

 

[TurkSurg]

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[apumic]

so IF a student from a state school and a student top school have almost the same application and the state school applicant scores 2 more pts higher on the mcat, does that mean they'll accept the student from state school ??

No 2 applicants are ever identical. Pedigree of school is unlikely to make a difference worth the price tag of a "top school," esp. in medicine where rank of school means about as much as the color of your crap, which may matter more on occasion.... Get my drift? Get over school rankings. They're one of the most unsound methods of choosing schools there is and, frankly, don't correlate hardly at all with actual career success. Your height is FAR more important for your later career than is the school you went to, so maybe you ought to work on a way to become taller instead. (Don't believe me? Check the research.) You could also look into a sex change if you're female, since males make something like $1.35 million for every $1 million a woman makes as a physician. That'd also help you more than going to a better school.... (j/k...I think).

 

[ensuii]

so IF a student from a state school and a student top school have almost the same application and the state school applicant scores 2 more pts higher on the mcat, does that mean they'll accept the student from state school ??

No, it means both of you will be invited to interview and whichever one is lesser of a douchebag gets in 😛 Listen, there are plenty of things to worry about in the application process from how you list your activities to the things you say in your personal statement. The school you went it is very, very, very, very, very, ver, very, very, very, very low on the totem pole, all things considered. Hope this helps!

 

[vladmoney]

so IF a student from a state school and a student top school have almost the same application and the state school applicant scores 2 more pts higher on the mcat, does that mean they'll accept the student from state school ??

adcom told us during a seminar that certain schools are viewed as being harder (aka the avg premed student in there is going to have a lower GPA just because of curve and competition). Guess what, these aren't your state schools. Thus if there were two identical school applicants, I mean the exact same thing, the person from the "harder school" might get the benefit of the adcom. But such a scenario never exists, every applicant is unique. I will tell you right now that maybe a 3.4 might not look so bad from MIT, but in the end it is everything else but the school that will get that person in. AKA go to a school that will teach you well, prepare you for medical school/MCAT, and the one you will have fun and party at the most.

 

[SirGecko]

This question (or variations on it) gets asked a lot. The answer seems to be that the school you went to and the program that you went through at that university are taken into account. Usually though this isn't a huge factor. And if you went to a lesser known school they aren't going to ding you for it. You just don't get that benefit.

It's sort of like the URM issue. You aren't being penalized for not falling into the catagory and it isn't a free ticket to medical school if you do. Its just something that can (doesn't mean it always will) help.

edit: and schools are much more likely to take it into account if they like the rest of your application, being a good fit for the school is essential

 

[camaras2480]

He's being sarcastic.

lol. for whatever reason this brief exchange was hysterical.

 

[zayka]

I think that there is an indirect disadvantage. If you do undergrad at a big school, you have a lot more opportunity for cutting-edge research projects that are really interesting and you are surrounded by very competitive people (which can also be a bad thing) that push each other.

At Harvard UG, you are pretty much automatically paired up with a great prof to do research. This obviously makes life a whole lot easier.

You can still be a strong applicant from a state school as long as you show a lot of initiative in applying for and finding out about things yourself and make your work/activities really excellent.

 

[imer]

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[slick27]

I think that there is an indirect disadvantage. If you do undergrad at a big school, you have a lot more opportunity for cutting-edge research projects that are really interesting and you are surrounded by very competitive people (which can also be a bad thing) that push each other.

At Harvard UG, you are pretty much automatically paired up with a great prof to do research. This obviously makes life a whole lot easier.

You can still be a strong applicant from a state school as long as you show a lot of initiative in applying for and finding out about things yourself and make your work/activities really excellent.

I agree with this. I went to a small state school, where there was no research and most students were more interested in graduating in five years than applying to medical school.

 

[bunnity]

On the other hand, I went to a huge state-related school and there were lots of opportunities for research. So remember that "state" does not necessarily mean small, large, research, no research, easy, hard...

 

[Kong Bu]

But in the eyes of an adcom, a student from Yale with a GPA of 3.6 is ranked about the same as a student from a state school who has a GPA of a 3.8.

Why? Because private schools seem to be harder than state schools.

Why aren't CC's taken into account then? We all know that med school's don't like people taking their pre-req's at CC's, so why is that an issue?

I don't mean to be brash, but I'm just curious to know as well.

 

[ensuii]

But in the eyes of an adcom, a student from Yale with a GPA of 3.6 is ranked about the same as a student from a state school who has a GPA of a 3.8.

Why? Because private schools seem to be harder than state schools.

Why aren't CC's taken into account then? We all know that med school's don't like people taking their pre-req's at CC's, so why is that an issue?

I don't mean to be brash, but I'm just curious to know as well.

That's not really true...grade inflation runs rampart at privates. There was a survey/research posted about this a whiles ago but I don't remember where it is. BTW, are you distinguishing between privates and tier-1 schools like Princeton, Yale, etc.?

 

[gbu730]

I think that there is an indirect disadvantage. If you do undergrad at a big school, you have a lot more opportunity for cutting-edge research projects that are really interesting and you are surrounded by very competitive people (which can also be a bad thing) that push each other.

At Harvard UG, you are pretty much automatically paired up with a great prof to do research. This obviously makes life a whole lot easier.

Agree. Research-wise, you'll be in major disadvantage coming from a small state school without adequate funding.

However, it is a different story GPA-wise. I believe that professors usually indicate class average and other stats in LORs, which would give adcom an idea of how inflated/deflated grades might be in a particular school/class. That would probably negatively affect applicants from schools that have an easy grading scale. However, I highly doubt that this would excuse for low GPAs even if you come from an Ivy school, especially with schools that screen, I don't know how they can weigh your GPA based on the school you are from. Just my 2 cents. 😀

 

[apumic]

Grades given vary far more between faculty at a school than between schools. As a result, little weight is given to Ivy GPAs. All you get there are some resources you could take advantage of. The truth, though, is that for something like medicine, the school you go to has almost no bearing upon your actual career (from what physicians have told me and the research I've done).

 

[QofQuimica]

do students from state schools need higher gpa/mcat/activities than another top school studens to have a better advantage of getting into a top med school?

No. Anyone who wants to get into medical school needs to have good GPA/MCAT/ECs, and people who want to go to top schools will often be stellar in all of those areas. The difference between a stellar applicant from State U versus a stellar applicant from Top Rank U is often non-distinguishable. It may seem like Top Rank applicants have an advantage in the admissions process because when you look at med school class profiles, there tend to be more students coming from high-ranked colleges. But there is a huge selection bias going on here because of the student populations at different schools.

State schools will have a large variety of students in terms of academic performance. In other words, the bell curve of academic performance at a state school is very wide, from kids who were C-students in HS up to kids who were HS valedictorians and National Merit scholars. The best students at the state U would have done well no matter where they went to college. At the highly ranked school, the bell curve of academic performance is much narrower. Pretty much everyone who goes to high-ranked schools was an excellent student in HS. So those schools tend to be premed powerhouses, because the vast majority of their students have the credentials to make them competitive for medical school admissions. If only 100 students at State U are competitive for med school, while 500 students from Top Rank U are competitive, it's not surprising that you'd see a 5:1 ratio of Top Rank U to State U matriculants. But it's not because students who go to Top Rank U are chosen preferentially over equally good students from State U.

So, the answer to your question is that you should work hard in school, study for the MCAT, participate in meaningful ECs, and get good LORs. If you are an obviously stellar applicant applying from a state U, the adcoms will recognize that.

 

[camaras2480]

No. Anyone who wants to get into medical school needs to have good GPA/MCAT/ECs, and people who want to go to top schools will often be stellar in all of those areas. The difference between a stellar applicant from State U versus a stellar applicant from Top Rank U is often non-distinguishable. It may seem like Top Rank applicants have an advantage in the admissions process because when you look at med school class profiles, there tend to be more students coming from high-ranked colleges. But there is a huge selection bias going on here because of the student populations at different schools.

State schools will have a large variety of students in terms of academic performance. In other words, the bell curve of academic performance at a state school is very wide, from kids who were C-students in HS up to kids who were HS valedictorians and National Merit scholars. The best students at the state U would have done well no matter where they went to college. At the highly ranked school, the bell curve of academic performance is much narrower. Pretty much everyone who goes to high-ranked schools was an excellent student in HS. So those schools tend to be premed powerhouses, because the vast majority of their students have the credentials to make them competitive for medical school admissions. If only 100 students at State U are competitive for med school, while 500 students from Top Rank U are competitive, it's not surprising that you'd see a 5:1 ratio of Top Rank U to State U matriculants. But it's not because students who go to Top Rank U are chosen preferentially over equally good students from State U.

So, the answer to your question is that you should work hard in school, study for the MCAT, participate in meaningful ECs, and get good LORs. If you are an obviously stellar applicant applying from a state U, the adcoms will recognize that.

Thank you for putting this to rest. 👍

 

[PremedIowa]

I'm surprised us state school kids can cross the street without help. 😛

If you do well at any school, you will do just fine.

 

[Food]

Many adcoms know state schools very well. UF, my undergrad school is a pretty big supplier of pre-meds nationwide, so UF premeds are judged against previous applicants from UF. The adcoms can guess the strength of particular programs within a state school, and know how difficult the classes tend to be. They can then base their decisions on the performance of applicants from that school in previous years. A lot of data and history goes into it.

 

[Food]

I'm surprised us state school kids can cross the street without help. 😛

If you do well at any school, you will do just fine.

By the way your stats are pretty ridiculous. I'm surprised you went to a state school for undergrad.

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm surprised us state school kids can cross the street without help. 😛

Hey, I resemble that remark! 😡 😉

By the way your stats are pretty ridiculous. I'm surprised you went to a state school for undergrad.

Why? This guy is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, someone who would have excelled anywhere.

 

[apumic]

By the way your stats are pretty ridiculous. I'm surprised you went to a state school for undergrad.

I'm not.
It simply shows some intelligence when it comes to money. 😉
As has been said throughout this thread, it's more about your accomplishments at your school than where you went to school.

I loved the private I went to, but the truth is that you can get just as good an education from a state school. You simply have to work for it instead of having everything given to you on a silver platter along with your diploma.

 

[Food]

Hey, I resemble that remark! 😡 😉


Why? This guy is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, someone who would have excelled anywhere.

Sure, but I was just assuming from his college stats that his HS stats had to be pretty good as well. If that were the case, I admit I'd be a little surprised he went to his state school. I know it's not unheard of - financial reasons are of course understandable. Still, sometimes I wonder how things would be if I had gone to a better private school. Not that I had the choice, my low GPA / high test score scenario was played out in HS as well.

 

[dr seuss]

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[Food]

Choosing to go to my state school with a full ride was an easy decision for me. IMO it doesn't make sense to take out loans for undergrad if you are going to go to med/law/whatever school.

No - I agree with you. But there are several undeniable advantages to going to HYMPS or the like...for one, I imagine your pre-professional advisers are far better connected and informed than the ones at our state schools. For state schools, a stage school adviser is probably the best, but if you are aiming for the top, it helps having a pre-med team that knows the adcoms on a first name basis.

 

[QofQuimica]

Choosing to go to my state school with a full ride was an easy decision for me. IMO it doesn't make sense to take out loans for undergrad if you are going to go to med/law/whatever school.

I agree with you completely; I did the same thing. Given the chance to do it all over, I'd still choose to go to one of my state schools for free. Finances played a large part in choosing my medical school also. I wound up getting enough financial aid that I was able to avoid taking out any loans. Unfortunately, most people won't have that luxury. But having a lot of loans in the current political and economic climate is scary, and you can still do your utmost to minimize your loans as much as possible. As the saying goes, paybacks are hell.

Food, I think many people would agree with me that too many premed advisors are over-rated and under-informed. I may be more cynical than some of you, but I can't help but think that if a lot of these people knew all that much about getting into medical school, they'd be physicians and not premed advisors.

Edit: I see you're at UF. I almost went there, but ended up going to New College instead.

 

[apumic]

I agree with you completely; I did the same thing. Given the chance to do it all over, I'd still choose to go to one of my state schools for free. Finances played a large part in choosing my medical school also. I wound up getting enough financial aid that I was able to avoid taking out any loans. Unfortunately, most people won't have that luxury. But having a lot of loans in the current political and economic climate is scary, and you can still do your utmost to minimize your loans as much as possible. As the saying goes, paybacks are hell.

Food, I think many people would agree with me that too many premed advisors are over-rated and under-informed. I may be more cynical than some of you, but I can't help but think that if a lot of these people knew all that much about getting into medical school, they'd be physicians and not premed advisors.

QofQ, way to go! I suspect you'll be much better off financially as a result of your decisions. As I've posted before, I've known a number of "big" physicians and not once have I heard from any of them that they felt a big name school did or would have helped them be as or more successful than they were. I'm sure big name med schools can help somewhat in getting a good residency if you happen to click with the right faculty member at that school w/ the right connections to the exact program you want into and if that faculty member is so impressed by you that he/she is willing to make a personal phone call to the director of said program on your behalf, but the evidence for a real advantage seems to be pretty weak or even nonexistent. IMO, that's certainly not enough cause to double (or even quadruple in some cases) one's debt!

 

[QofQuimica]

QofQ, way to go! I suspect you'll be much better off financially as a result of your decisions. As I've posted before, I've known a number of "big" physicians and not once have I heard from any of them that they felt a big name school did or would have helped them be as or more successful than they were. I'm sure big name med schools can help somewhat in getting a good residency if you happen to click with the right faculty member at that school w/ the right connections to the exact program you want into and if that faculty member is so impressed by you that he/she is willing to make a personal phone call to the director of said program on your behalf, but the evidence for a real advantage seems to be pretty weak or even nonexistent. IMO, that's certainly not enough cause to double (or even quadruple in some cases) one's debt!

Applying for a residency is akin to applying for a job. You need to have the necessary credentials on your CV, and you also need to have reputable people who can recommend you highly. The former is largely up to you. You work hard, and you pull the best grades and Step scores you can. The latter is also largely up to you. Every medical school I visited, including all of my state schools, has more resources than you can possibly use as a medical student. You have no one else to blame if you don't take advantage of the opportunities available to you. But if you somehow find that you don't have the necessary resources at your home school, you still have options. For exmaple, you can go away to other schools to do research and/or clinical rotations. Doing away rotations is very common for fourth year med students. Aways are basically like a month-long audition at a program you want to attend for residency, and they can help you get letters from influential people in your field of choice. I don't have to do an away to get the letters I need, but I plan to do one anyway. It's good to see how things are done at other institutions.