Do they seriously read all of these repetitive secondary essays?

[Phoenix.]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I was reading through the essay questions from secondary applications last year, and I'm boggled by some of them. I can't believe that adcomms really read the answers to all of these lengthy, and repetitive essay questions. And if they do, at what point do they read them? Before they decide to grant an interview? After? How important are they? I'm especially shocked that they'll really be read when some schools ask you to respond to up to 5 essay questions, each 2400 characters in length!

Many of the questions cover things that you would have clearly discussed in your personal statement. Are they just checking that you're really the one that wrote it and want to see you do it again in other words? For instance: "Describe the path you took to prepare, both academically and personally, for a career in medicine." Who didn't discuss this already in their personal statement? And some of these secondaries specify that you cannot just refer back to your PS (while some are more reasonable, and say you can just state "see PS."). Or how about: "How did you reach your decision to enter medicine? Describe your participation in any health care or other activities, which reinforced your decision. (25 lines)." Again, isn't that the purpose of the 5300 character PS?

Are there any adcomms out there that can weigh in on this? At what point does someone read through all of these secondary essays, and how much weight are they actually given? Do you guys take these seriously? Or are they just to "justify" the $100 fee? I really don't relish having to rehash my very well written and comprehensive personal statement that already perfectly addresses many of these questions. Is there a penalty for simply re-stating what you already wrote in your PS but in new sentences? Or are you guys really looking for completely original answers to what was already soundly answered in the PS?

Ok, I'll stop ranting. Of course I'm going to write essays for all of these essay questions. I'm certainly not going to withdraw any applications just because they ask repetitive secondary questions. I'm just exasperated by this process. Can't they just take a pint of blood instead? I feel like a dog dressed up in a suit jumping through hoops at the circus for peanuts. And I don't even like peanuts. Anyone else feel like this?

 

[gary5]

I think that they read essays of people whom they are about to invite to interview. The rest are excluded by stats. A very rough partial estimate might be 600 apps over 100 days. With 6+ people on the adcom, then you're talking about 1 per day per person. Obviously, the actual numbers are different than this, but it's a very rough estimate. Maybe it's 3 times that, or 3 apps per day per person. I'm sure they get bored with the repetition. That's why the occasional person will get in with a completely off-the-wall application.

 

[Phoenix.]

I didn't mean the repetition of reading the same answers by every applicant. I meant the schools that ask the very same questions that are clearly already answered in everyone's personal statement. Why read a 2400 character essay on why the person decided to pursue medicine, or what clinical experiences helped lead the applicant to their decision, when the adcomm has already read that answered in the applicant's 5300 character personal statement? Know what I mean? Those questions can't possibly be looking for new information, or can they?

 

[Law2Doc]

I think that they read essays of people whom they are about to invite to interview. The rest are excluded by stats.

No, you can be excluded by crummy essays as well. Anything to cull the herd down to a manageable level.

 

[LizzyM]

Just chiming in to say that at my undisclosed location, a member of the adcom spends about 30 minutes with each application and reads the entire AMCAS plus the secondary and the LORs before writing an assessment and making a recommendation to interivew or not. Each application reader needs to do 1- 3 applications per day to keep up with the workload (>4,000 completed applications/yr). A second reader reviews the commentary written by the first reader and selectively reads the application. A second reader might spend 5-10 minutes on an application and will cover about 7-10applications per day. There is a third layer of review before an invitation to interview is granted. Depending on whether an application is closed or open file, the interviewer may or may not read the supplemental and the PS (and the rest) before the interview. Even in the case of an open file interview, some interviewers prefer not to read the application in advance (to avoid preconceived notions and bias toward the applicant). Thus, when asked a question that was answered by the secondary, it may not be that the interviewer is testing whether or not you remember what you wrote but that listening rather than reading may be their preferred way to get information (some of our most interesting interviewers are psychiatrists-- no surprise there).

Some applicants take a lot of poetic license with their PS. They may spend the whole essay talking about grandad's work as a surgeon and the feeling that ran through the applicant's body as she looked at grandad's hands as he lay dying. The secondaries asking very specific questions give those applicants a second chance to address the questions that should have been answered in the PS. The specific questions also streamline the process of reviewing specific information. In some schools it wouldn't surprise me if the first reader reviews the academic stats and if those are found to be acceptable then a second reviewer, who is blinded to the academic stats, is asked to read the secondaries. This would serve the purpose of removing any bias that might arise if the essays are reviewed in light of the stats. (Is an essay by someone with a MCAT of 37 really better than someone with an MCAT of 32 or does it just seem better in light of the MCAT score?) That would be another reason to replicate on the secondary the material that is on the AMCAS. It may also have something to do with how files are managed and distributed to readers and interviewers.

Finally, there is an argument to be made for testing an applicant's ability to write a new essay under a time constraint. In these days of ghost writers and editing services, some applicants come under suspicion if they are unable to write something coherent in the secondary essay or if they fall back on the same old PS.

Write something fresh and interesting. The adcom will thank you.

 

[nskittles57]

Thanks again for all the helpful insights and advice LizzyM. This definitely clears some of the questions I had about the whole secondary thing and it makes me think Adcoms really aren't as biased as they sometimes seem towards those with amazing numbers...

 

[Phoenix.]

LizzyM: Thank you for taking the time to lay out that process. Very interesting. And that definitely will be helpful to keep in mind while writing secondaries.

I'm still not quite sure what to do about the questions that ask how I came to decide to pursue medicine, since that is in fact exactly what I set forth explicitly in my personal statement. You suggest being original, but it would be hard to do so given the reasoning and reasons for "why medicine" have not changed since I wrote the PS. I certainly don't want to bore the reader, but I don't know what to do other than paraphrase my PS. Ah well, I hope they won't hold my repetitive answer too much against me.

Anyone else write a PS that clearly set forth how and why medicine? What are you going to do for these types of questions which you already answered at length in your PS?

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM: Thank you for taking the time to lay out that process. Very interesting. And that definitely will be helpful to keep in mind while writing secondaries.

I'm still not quite sure what to do about the questions that ask how I came to decide to pursue medicine, since that is in fact exactly what I set forth explicitly in my personal statement. You suggest being original, but it would be hard to do so given the reasoning and reasons for "why medicine" have not changed since I wrote the PS. I certainly don't want to bore the reader, but I don't know what to do other than paraphrase my PS. Ah well, I hope they won't hold my repetitive answer too much against me.

Anyone else write a PS that clearly set forth how and why medicine? What are you going to do for these types of questions which you already answered at length in your PS?

Write your essay without looking back at the PS. Don't cut & paste the PS into the supplemental. You might use a different technique on the supplemental although the information being conveyed is the same.

 

[Phoenix.]

Write your essay without looking back at the PS. Don't cut & paste the PS into the supplemental. You might use a different technique on the supplemental although the information being conveyed is the same.

Thanks. Will do.

You know, I did wonder about all of those personal statement/essay writing services. I.e., if/how they would ever know if someone wrote their own PS or not. I guess the great equalizer will be the secondaries - similar to the implications made when comparing a gpa to a divergent MCAT score.

 

[alesdu1]

Just chiming in to say that at my undisclosed location, a member of the adcom spends about 30 minutes with each application and reads the entire AMCAS plus the secondary and the LORs before writing an assessment and making a recommendation to interivew or not. Each application reader needs to do 1- 3 applications per day to keep up with the workload (>4,000 completed applications/yr). A second reader reviews the commentary written by the first reader and selectively reads the application. A second reader might spend 5-10 minutes on an application and will cover about 7-10applications per day. There is a third layer of review before an invitation to interview is granted. Depending on whether an application is closed or open file, the interviewer may or may not read the supplemental and the PS (and the rest) before the interview. Even in the case of an open file interview, some interviewers prefer not to read the application in advance (to avoid preconceived notions and bias toward the applicant). Thus, when asked a question that was answered by the secondary, it may not be that the interviewer is testing whether or not you remember what you wrote but that listening rather than reading may be their preferred way to get information (some of our most interesting interviewers are psychiatrists-- no surprise there).

Some applicants take a lot of poetic license with their PS. They may spend the whole essay talking about grandad's work as a surgeon and the feeling that ran through the applicant's body as she looked at grandad's hands as he lay dying. The secondaries asking very specific questions give those applicants a second chance to address the questions that should have been answered in the PS. The specific questions also streamline the process of reviewing specific information. In some schools it wouldn't surprise me if the first reader reviews the academic stats and if those are found to be acceptable then a second reviewer, who is blinded to the academic stats, is asked to read the secondaries. This would serve the purpose of removing any bias that might arise if the essays are reviewed in light of the stats. (Is an essay by someone with a MCAT of 37 really better than someone with an MCAT of 32 or does it just seem better in light of the MCAT score?) That would be another reason to replicate on the secondary the material that is on the AMCAS. It may also have something to do with how files are managed and distributed to readers and interviewers.

Finally, there is an argument to be made for testing an applicant's ability to write a new essay under a time constraint. In these days of ghost writers and editing services, some applicants come under suspicion if they are unable to write something coherent in the secondary essay or if they fall back on the same old PS.

Write something fresh and interesting. The adcom will thank you.

Question about "write a new essay under a time constraint." There was recently a forum that mentioned that it is extremely important, if not obligatory, to submit your secondary within 2 weeks of having received it. Is there any truth to this? Is this what you are referring to as well?

 

[Madame]

Question about "write a new essay under a time constraint." There was recently a forum that mentioned that it is extremely important, if not obligatory, to submit your secondary within 2 weeks of having received it. Is there any truth to this? Is this what you are referring to as well?

Why do some people knock themselves out to submit the AMCAS early only to sit on the supplementals for weeks and weeks. The more quicky you submit the supplementals, the more quickly your application will make it through the review. If you don't submit until October (a typical "deadline") you might not be reviewed until December and be interviewed in February ... or later. When everyone else is being interivewed, you won't be too happy to be sitting by the keyboard waiting for an invitation.