Do US universities pay Canadians less?

[1stYearGunner]

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[Tiger100]

I don't think your visa status DIRECTLY affects your salary. But people may take advantage of you if they think you need to stay in a job. Anyway, as far as I know, getting a green card is a 2-3 year process and not a life-time process.

And "top US academic hospitals" is a red herring here because they usually pay less than mid tier or low tier academic places.

And why do you need to know about other specialties?

 

[1stYearGunner]

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[redoitall]

I wanted to compare with say, ortho, where the job prospects are poor in Canada.

If you have some unique features (eg: you landed an ultraspecialized fellowship at a quaternary center and "Harvard" wants someone with that fellowship), how willing would they be to give a solid 500 000$ salary? I'm trying to plan where I want to settle in the future with my SO who is unfortunately a CAD citizen.

I am sorry but could you clarify your question. I can't really understand what you are asking.
Being from Europe originally I had to go through the entire VISA and work situation and it ain't pretty.
1) Yes your salary will likely be lower as a foreigner with a visa "take or leave it". However I would not assume you can work here as a Foreign MD. Unlikely to happen (or I didn't understand the question)
2) Visa for health-worker are usually impossible to justify so don't count on one. It will be easier to be a research fellow because salaries are low and Americans (who can work without a visa) don't want them. Health care in general is probably one of the worst sector to get a H1B or green card. Many Foreign MDs come here through the research route.
3) Another route to explore is through marriage to US citizen. Naturally I am not implying this is a strategy. A perk should you be a US citizen. That still leaves training issues to be dealt with.


Again given how you have state the info, talking about you(?) as a radiologist or your wife (as a radiologist or ortho). I don't really get it. So if you could clarify.
As an aside, I came here with a J1 then H1B (in research). The path to Green Card + Citizenship took about 10 years. I started Med School with a green card and obtained citizenship in the interim.

I am not canadian though and perhaps rules and regulations are different. If anyone knows, I am sure they will add / correct what my experience has taught me.

 

[rrxr]

I'm just an MS4, but I'm pretty sure "Harvard" isn't gonna pay you 500k unless you're someone with significant seniority... Generally the more prestigious place you're at, the more they'll try to pay you in prestige instead of $$. I've heard secondhand the terms of several prestigious academic attending job offers for recently graduated fellows and none of them were close to 500k lol.

Edit: I didn't notice Tiger100 already told you prestige =/= $$, before you mentioned 500k...

 

[1stYearGunner]

@redoitall Your situation is different because you are from Europe. I am particularly seeking advice for Canadians who want top/mid-tier academic positions in the states and who want to maximize their earning potential.

 

[Tiger100]

Are you a resident or fellow?

 

[CloudEmperor]

@redoitall Your situation is different because you are from Europe. I am particularly seeking advice for Canadians who want top/mid-tier academic positions in the states and who want to maximize their earning potential.

If you want to maximize your earning potential, I wouldn't go to an academic hospital

 

[1stYearGunner]

If you want to maximize your earning potential, I wouldn't go to an academic hospital

I understand, but I do not see myself in private practice.

 

[Tiger100]

I understand, but I do not see myself in private practice.

You can't have best of worlds. In life and in your career, you can't have money, location and the type of job that you desire all at once unless in rare situations that you are both lucky AND a superstar.

 

[Gadofosveset]

I understand, but I do not see myself in private practice.

The answer is no. Your skill set does not matter. You can't make that kind of salary in DR (I would guess not in IR either) at any "top" US academic hospital unless you are the chairman. Not in any program that I know of, anyway, and I know a few.

 

[redoitall]

If you want to maximize your earning potential, I wouldn't go to an academic hospital

It depends... The only reason to go into academics is that if offers opportunities that PP doesn't such a teaching or research. The work environment is generally better (not always). That said, while your salary will be lower, should you go into research and should you be a successful one oriented toward translation, your earning potential should be far superior to any job. In other words, a marketable discovery will make you very rich. I have personally met several of these folks, including the richest MD on earth (bonus point if you find out who that is).
However this path is difficult. uncertain, frustrating (I tried and failed, twice even when the richest MD on earth was considering investing...). If your primary motivation is money you will likely fail.

All that said, I was under the impression that Canadians still needed visas to work and are subject to similar requirements to any foreigner (I am not sure of that, just thought that it was the case). So all this is assuming you can practice here as a Canadian.

 

[Tiger100]

Generally speaking, the person who becomes the richest MD on earth did not do it for money in the first place. Money came secondary. Just like the NBA player who makes 100 mil a year. When he was 12 years old he didn't play basketball to sign an astronomical contract when he becomes 25.

 

[1stYearGunner]

It depends... The only reason to go into academics is that if offers opportunities that PP doesn't such a teaching or research. The work environment is generally better (not always). That said, while your salary will be lower, should you go into research and should you be a successful one oriented toward translation, your earning potential should be far superior to any job. In other words, a marketable discovery will make you very rich. I have personally met several of these folks, including the richest MD on earth (bonus point if you find out who that is).
However this path is difficult. uncertain, frustrating (I tried and failed, twice even when the richest MD on earth was considering investing...). If your primary motivation is money you will likely fail.

All that said, I was under the impression that Canadians still needed visas to work and are subject to similar requirements to any foreigner (I am not sure of that, just thought that it was the case). So all this is assuming you can practice here as a Canadian.

It's Patrick Soon! I think everybody knows him. How did you meet him?

Can you tell me about your background? Could you practice radiology without having North American board certification? I've heard of attendings from Ireland doing a fellow in the States and staying, but I never understood how that is allowed as they did not go through residency in the US/Canada.

Don't universities keep all profits made from discoveries?

 

[Rads4lyfe]

It's Patrick Soon! I think everybody knows him. How did you meet him?

Can you tell me about your background? Could you practice radiology without having North American board certification? I've heard of attendings from Ireland doing a fellow in the States and staying, but I never understood how that is allowed as they did not go through residency in the US/Canada.

Don't universities keep all profits made from discoveries?

A few attendings at my program did residencies in a different country and did fellowship here and are now practicing. It's not common, and it was a very difficult road for them...but possible.

 

[redoitall]

It's Patrick Soon! I think everybody knows him. How did you meet him?

Can you tell me about your background? Could you practice radiology without having North American board certification? I've heard of attendings from Ireland doing a fellow in the States and staying, but I never understood how that is allowed as they did not go through residency in the US/Canada.

Don't universities keep all profits made from discoveries?

Cool. Yes it is him. He was supposed to invest in a pharma based on text analytics I co-founded. A plateform he intend to use for Nantealth. Called me up on a superbowl day (I was watching the game, don't remember which year though). He flew me to LA to visit him, at the time it was at Abraxis, a company he then sold a bit later for a few billions. The fun part is when he took me to a restaurant: a burger place (really?)... Enough about that story.
As for my background, well too long. Let's just say a bunch of diplomas and letters behind my name and attempts with mixed success at entrepreneurship. I have not given up though and my plan is to continue in that direction. I was just a bit tired of Bioinformatics/Text mining.

Regarding your question about practicing here without Board certification, my understanding is that it is no possible. I have met many MDs (including from Ireland) who ultimately went back due to lack of prospects. In undeserved specialties, perhaps Nephro / Endocrino and Rheum come immediately to mind, many fellows are foreign MDs with some "observatorship" period here prior to making it to the fellow level. I don't exactly know how that works to be honest, and it remains a mystery how they come here as J1/H1 and then become green card holder. Perhaps the fact that these specialties are in deep need of applicants may help justify their visas. I do not know...

About universities keeping profits: No they don't. There is a way (likely university dependent) in which way profits are split. I won't go into the definition of profit though. Suffice it to say that when you make a discovery as an inventor you can perceive a percentage of royalties (to be negotiated). These royalties are perceived in part personally (in your pocket) and professionally (injected in your lab to fund you research). A lab is an awesome vehicle to work on high end technologies that are not market ready. Nobody would pay for that. You get them just ready "enough" until big money comes in. To get to that "early enough stage" is kind of the issue because funding is done through grants. Grants are generally more into basic science. There are some grants like SBIR that are designed to fund more entrepreneurial projects.
But the real issue is to survive until you get something cool enough to be interesting to someone who is willing to pay for it. That is where research is painful.
I would like to make you understand however that in academy, when you are inventor and have your name on a patent, it belongs to the university (I have one of those). However part of the royalties should it be licensed will come into your pocket. Now go work for a private company and you will get zip. Hopefully, you can see that academy would offer the best prospect moneywise. Royalties can add to millions, literally. Going private is a nice salary, that is more or less safe, that would be the cherry. Going academy and being successful would be more than just he cake, the entire flipping bakery!

 

[1stYearGunner]

A few attendings at my program did residencies in a different country and did fellowship here and are now practicing. It's not common, and it was a very difficult road for them...but possible.

Could you please detail the difficulties they had to face?

Cool. Yes it is him. He was supposed to invest in a pharma based on text analytics I co-founded. A plateform he intend to use for Nantealth. Called me up on a superbowl day (I was watching the game, don't remember which year though). He flew me to LA to visit him, at the time it was at Abraxis, a company he then sold a bit later for a few billions. The fun part is when he took me to a restaurant: a burger place (really?)... Enough about that story.
As for my background, well too long. Let's just say a bunch of diplomas and letters behind my name and attempts with mixed success at entrepreneurship. I have not given up though and my plan is to continue in that direction. I was just a bit tired of Bioinformatics/Text mining.

Regarding your question about practicing here without Board certification, my understanding is that it is no possible. I have met many MDs (including from Ireland) who ultimately went back due to lack of prospects. In undeserved specialties, perhaps Nephro / Endocrino and Rheum come immediately to mind, many fellows are foreign MDs with some "observatorship" period here prior to making it to the fellow level. I don't exactly know how that works to be honest, and it remains a mystery how they come here as J1/H1 and then become green card holder. Perhaps the fact that these specialties are in deep need of applicants may help justify their visas. I do not know...

About universities keeping profits: No they don't. There is a way (likely university dependent) in which way profits are split. I won't go into the definition of profit though. Suffice it to say that when you make a discovery as an inventor you can perceive a percentage of royalties (to be negotiated). These royalties are perceived in part personally (in your pocket) and professionally (injected in your lab to fund you research). A lab is an awesome vehicle to work on high end technologies that are not market ready. Nobody would pay for that. You get them just ready "enough" until big money comes in. To get to that "early enough stage" is kind of the issue because funding is done through grants. Grants are generally more into basic science. There are some grants like SBIR that are designed to fund more entrepreneurial projects.
But the real issue is to survive until you get something cool enough to be interesting to someone who is willing to pay for it. That is where research is painful.
I would like to make you understand however that in academy, when you are inventor and have your name on a patent, it belongs to the university (I have one of those). However part of the royalties should it be licensed will come into your pocket. Now go work for a private company and you will get zip. Hopefully, you can see that academy would offer the best prospect moneywise. Royalties can add to millions, literally. Going private is a nice salary, that is more or less safe, that would be the cherry. Going academy and being successful would be more than just he cake, the entire flipping bakery!

Awesome.

 

[Rads4lyfe]

Could you please detail the difficulties they had to face?



Awesome.

After completing residency in his home country, one attending had to do many years of research at the institution he did fellowship at. He was able to get support from the deans and department heads. Im not sure exactly what he had to do in terms of certifications and usmle and visa stuff.

One way or another, he didn't do residency in the US. There are a few other attendings ive met in my residency with similar experiences. And Im at a well known institution.

 

[redoitall]

After completing residency in his home country, one attending had to do many years of research at the institution he did fellowship at. He was able to get support from the deans and department heads. Im not sure exactly what he had to do in terms of certifications and usmle and visa stuff.

One way or another, he didn't do residency in the US. There are a few other attendings ive met in my residency with similar experiences. And Im at a well known institution.

Sounds about right to me (not even knowing the details). Back to the original question: Yes you would likely have to take a lower pay while doing research, paid as a postdoc (maybe 40K+ a year or so) and serve at the pleasure of the PI etc...