DO vs Carib vs reapplying MD

[Kisangani]

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So as this admission cycle nears its end, I would appreciate some advice on what the best course of action would be. I recently got off of a waitlist for a DO school, am currently on a waitlist for a low-tier MD school, and have been accepted to both SGU and Ross. I know my numbers were a bit low for US MD schools (3.33gpa, 28 MCAT), but I thought I would have had some chance this cycle if I applied broadly and early (which I did....submitted 6/1/2015 and applied 40+ schools). I have plenty of research and clinical involvement throughout my undergrad and I believe that I solicited good letters of recommendation. Assuming that I will not get off of the waitlist for the MD program that I waiting to hear back from (most likely scenario at this point) what should I do? I know this question has been beaten to death on this forum, but with my GPA and MCAT both being borderline for MD consideration, would reapplying and trying to improve my MCAT and/or GPA be a wise decision. The MCAT has changed significantly since I last took it (2014 version) so I don't know if it would help me. Even if I improve me MCAT significantly, I am still stuck with a 3.33 gpa. I personally am not very interested in the DO philosophy/approach and feel that it would be disreputable for me to go simply as a backup. My parents (who are doctors themselves) are very opposed to osteopathic medicine and would rather send me to the Caribbean than have me attend a DO school. I am interested in internal medicine if that affects what I should consider doing in any way. Any input would greatly appreciated.

 

[Lawpy]

Do not go to the Caribbean.

In your case, take the DO acceptance and move on. Yes, US MD may be better than US DO, but what is important is that you are a US-educated and US-trained physician. And the only thing difficult to do as a US DO student is matching into the most competitive residencies (and even these are still difficult for US MD).

 

[PatchAdams25]

Why the *$&%( did you apply to a DO school if you have absolutely no interest in it and your parents are so against it?

 

[piii]

Why the *$&%( did you apply to a DO school if you have absolutely no interest in it and your parents are so against it?

The kids that make these kinds of decisions are the ones that go to the Caribbean, and the ones who fail out.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

You're against the holistic philosophy of DO programs? Considering how much the two types of schools have converged, then you should question the philosophy of training anywhere in the US.

Otherwise I'm going to agree with the above posters and say go US DO. That's the common thought on these threads and you can probably search and read hundreds of reasons to support that opinion.

 

[Kisangani]

Why the *$&%( did you apply to a DO school if you have absolutely no interest in it and your parents are so against it?

I applied to a few DO programs later in the game after not having much luck with the MD programs I applied to. One of my research mentors also suggested it.

 

[NonTrad16]

So as this admission cycle nears its end, I would appreciate some advice on what the best course of action would be. I recently got off of a waitlist for a DO school, am currently on a waitlist for a low-tier MD school, and have been accepted to both SGU and Ross. I know my numbers were a bit low for US MD schools (3.33gpa, 28 MCAT), but I thought I would have had some chance this cycle if I applied broadly and early (which I did....submitted 6/1/2015 and applied 40+ schools). I have plenty of research and clinical involvement throughout my undergrad and I believe that I solicited good letters of recommendation. Assuming that I will not get off of the waitlist for the MD program that I waiting to hear back from (most likely scenario at this point) what should I do? I know this question has been beaten to death on this forum, but with my GPA and MCAT both being borderline for MD consideration, would reapplying and trying to improve my MCAT and/or GPA be a wise decision. The MCAT has changed significantly since I last took it (2014 version) so I don't know if it would help me. Even if I improve me MCAT significantly, I am still stuck with a 3.33 gpa. I personally am not very interested in the DO philosophy/approach and feel that it would be disreputable for me to go simply as a backup. My parents (who are doctors themselves) are very opposed to osteopathic medicine and would rather send me to the Caribbean than have me attend a DO school. I am interested in internal medicine if that affects what I should consider doing in any way. Any input would greatly appreciated.

1) Your stats are independently borderline for MD. In combination... it's impressive you got the MD invite to begin with. Retaking the MCAT would be necessary, but unless you have a reason to think you'd do better this time around it may be a fruitless endeavor. In doing so, you also might burn the bridge of DO by getting accepted and turning it down...
2) You are an adult, right? Why are your parents sending you anywhere? If it's any consolation, my parent MD says "DO? That's fine too... It's all really competitive these days..." Admittedly, you should care less about a stranger's parents opinion than you own, but you can't follow your parents orders forever either.
3) You've seen the threads and the stats. Have your parents? Show them the comparison between DO and Caribbean match stats. Admit to them you're not a special snowflake that will somehow be different than the others. (Again, my parent MD had no clue about current MCAT requirements/GPA/extras needed for admission, let alone attrition rates, residency stats, etc.)

 

[GrapesofRath]

Really all this comes down is you have to ask

a) what specifically are you opposed about the DO route(realize this philosophy talk in many ways wqy overstates the differences between how DOs and the rest of medicine approach things)

b) why do you want to go into medicine. Because honestly my first thought reading this post is not necessarily going into medicine with an interest in working with patients, altruism and interest in the field as much as perhaps pressure from others, issues of prestige/pride amongst various other things

Answer these two questions and you'll know what course of action you should take. Yes DOs have various disadvantages and biases well beyond just matching into top fields. This is even more true or Caribb MDs. And frankly your stats aren't near any position that you ahould be looking at turning down acceptances to reapply US MD. You are only as good as the offers you have and your stats and nothing about that screams reapply. It's either take your acceptance or decide to pursue another field. Both are perfectly viable choices. Which one you take nobody on here can answer for you and has the knowledge about you to tell you.

 

[kamakazi5]

I applied to a few DO programs later in the game after not having much luck with the MD programs I applied to. One of my research mentors also suggested it.

That answers the basic question but it doesn't answer why you did it if you had no plan on attending.

What specifically do you think is so different between DO and MD? Do you just completely disagree with the principal of manipulation or is it something different? In the end both are trained to be physicians and will, in general, be no different coming out of medical school. What kind of doctor you will be has more to do with your personality than the actual school you go to.

 

[VegasSurgeon]

OP, I was in your position many years ago as well. I had an acceptance to a well-ranked DO school and an acceptance to several of the “Big 4” Caribbean schools. After discussing the issue with my parents (who are both MDs as well) and several of my mentors, I decided to go the Caribbean route. I would take what you hear on this site with a grain of salt regarding DO being a better option than the Caribbean. While it will make it easier for you to match (particularly into competitive specialties) when you graduate, it comes with disadvantages as well. The reality is that few people outside of the medical field have any idea what a DO is. That is a BIG disadvantage! Think about that…..your patients will confuse you as a glorified chiropractor or nurse half of the time. Additionally, DOs are not recognized as physicians in many countries (though this may be changing slowly). By any means please do not listen to anyone on this site saying that there is no difference between MDs and DOs. Many of them seem to be involved with administration or are stern advocates for various osteopathic schools (some may be DOs themselves who are insecure with themselves and the added competition that IMGs cause when it comes time to match) and are thus biased in their responses. While they are similar (MD and DO) in their roles and responsibilities in medicine, saying that they are indistinguishable is a severe exaggeration. Osteopathic doctors still face a certain stigma amongst medical professionals and their schools tend to have match rates that are significantly below those of US MD schools. Though keep in mind that match rates at international medical schools as a whole are far below those of both US MD and DO schools. However, unless you truly believe in the osteopathic “philosophy,” you should not go to a DO school (especially if MD was your first choice). The best way to look at it is that you will have a chip on your shoulder regardless of whether you go to a DO school of an international MD school. But down the road it will be easier for you to conceal where you went to medical school as opposed to the two initials after your name. Also remember that as you go through this process (starting in you M3 year) it really becomes more of who you know than what you know. Once you get into your residency, nobody really cares where you went to medical school, and they will never know unless you tell them. However, if you go to a DO school, it will be stitched onto your jacket that you studied an alternative form of medicine and couldn’t get into a US MD school. The relationships that you build with the attendings supervising your clinicals as well as the letters of recommendations you get will have a great amount of influence in determining where you can do your residency, fellowships, etc (though board scores are VERY important as well). Many people on this site will also claim that Caribbean schools have incredibly high attrition rates and only exist to rob people with nothing to show for it. While I cannot say that all Caribbean schools have good student retentions, I can only think of one person who I was close to at my medical school who dropped out due to academic reasons. Though there were others who dropped out, I am unsure of the exact attrition. I would estimate less than 10% of those who started did not graduate in my year. Even though this is a higher attrition rate than all US MD schools, many DO schools have attrition rates around this. I would say that so long as you are dedicated and focused while you are there, you should be able to pass and get through it. In my opinion, medical school was FAR easier than being an undergraduate. I suppose it depends on what you majored in, but I found the material and workload to be significantly reduced in medical school (and I scored high on all of my Steps). The time I spent in the Caribbean went by very quickly and the accommodations for students are getting better with time. The clinical rotations I got in the US were all adequate in my opinion and taught me what I needed to know in order to prepare for residency. While I did have some good luck along the way, I was able to easily graduate on time and matched into a low-tier (but respectable) general surgery residency (categorical). I also recently completed a fellowship in plastics which is something nobody ever thought I would be able to accomplish as an IMG (though I did need to complete a year of research before I was accepted). The reality is that some specialties will simply be out of reach to you as an IMG and will unfairly go to US MDs/DOs before they are offered to you (even if you have superior grades/board scores). As a matter of fact, IMGs may be one of the last groups of people who can be legally discriminated against in our society. However, you still have many options if you pick a broad specialty (IM or general surgery) and subspecialize later (Ex. IM to pulmonology or GI, gen surg to colorectal ect) Anything is possible with enough hard-work, determination, and perserverance. I would choose the Caribbean again over DO in a heartbeat and hope that you consider doing the same. At the end of the day, an MD degree is more valuable than a DO degree even coming from a school outside of the US. Best of luck to you in your pursuits.

-VegasSurgeon

 

[Lawpy]

OP, I was in your position many years ago as well. I had an acceptance to a well-ranked DO school and an acceptance to several of the “Big 4” Caribbean schools. After discussing the issue with my parents (who are both MDs as well) and several of my mentors, I decided to go the Caribbean route. I would take what you hear on this site with a grain of salt regarding DO being a better option than the Caribbean. While it will make it easier for you to match (particularly into competitive specialties) when you graduate, it comes with disadvantages as well. The reality is that few people outside of the medical field have any idea what a DO is. That is a BIG disadvantage! Think about that…..your patients will confuse you as a glorified chiropractor or nurse half of the time. Additionally, DOs are not recognized as physicians in many countries (though this may be changing slowly). By any means please do not listen to anyone on this site saying that there is no difference between MDs and DOs. Many of them seem to be involved with administration or are stern advocates for various osteopathic schools (some may be DOs themselves who are insecure with themselves and the added competition that IMGs cause when it comes time to match) and are thus biased in their responses. While they are similar (MD and DO) in their roles and responsibilities in medicine, saying that they are indistinguishable is a severe exaggeration. Osteopathic doctors still face a certain stigma amongst medical professionals and their schools tend to have match rates that are significantly below those of US MD schools. Though keep in mind that match rates at international medical schools as a whole are far below those of both US MD and DO schools. However, unless you truly believe in the osteopathic “philosophy,” you should not go to a DO school (especially if MD was your first choice). The best way to look at it is that you will have a chip on your shoulder regardless of whether you go to a DO school of an international MD school. But down the road it will be easier for you to conceal where you went to medical school as opposed to the two initials after your name. Also remember that as you go through this process (starting in you M3 year) it really becomes more of who you know than what you know. Once you get into your residency, nobody really cares where you went to medical school, and they will never know unless you tell them. However, if you go to a DO school, it will be stitched onto your jacket that you studied an alternative form of medicine and couldn’t get into a US MD school. The relationships that you build with the attendings supervising your clinicals as well as the letters of recommendations you get will have a great amount of influence in determining where you can do your residency, fellowships, etc (though board scores are VERY important as well). Many people on this site will also claim that Caribbean schools have incredibly high attrition rates and only exist to rob people with nothing to show for it. While I cannot say that all Caribbean schools have good student retentions, I can only think of one person who I was close to at my medical school who dropped out due to academic reasons. Though there were others who dropped out, I am unsure of the exact attrition. I would estimate less than 10% of those who started did not graduate in my year. Even though this is a higher attrition rate than all US MD schools, many DO schools have attrition rates around this. I would say that so long as you are dedicated and focused while you are there, you should be able to pass and get through it. In my opinion, medical school was FAR easier than being an undergraduate. I suppose it depends on what you majored in, but I found the material and workload to be significantly reduced in medical school (and I scored high on all of my Steps). The time I spent in the Caribbean went by very quickly and the accommodations for students are getting better with time. The clinical rotations I got in the US were all adequate in my opinion and taught me what I needed to know in order to prepare for residency. While I did have some good luck along the way, I was able to easily graduate on time and matched into a low-tier (but respectable) general surgery residency (categorical). I also recently completed a fellowship in plastics which is something nobody ever thought I would be able to accomplish as an IMG (though I did need to complete a year of research before I was accepted). The reality is that some specialties will simply be out of reach to you as an IMG and will unfairly go to US MDs/DOs before they are offered to you (even if you have superior grades/board scores). As a matter of fact, IMGs may be one of the last groups of people who can be legally discriminated against in our society. However, you still have many options if you pick a broad specialty (IM or general surgery) and subspecialize later (Ex. IM to pulmonology or GI, gen surg to colorectal ect) Anything is possible with enough hard-work, determination, and perserverance. I would choose the Caribbean again over DO in a heartbeat and hope that you consider doing the same. At the end of the day, an MD degree is more valuable than a DO degree even coming from a school outside of the US. Best of luck to you in your pursuits.

-VegasSurgeon

So I respect and admire attendings who take the time to post on SDN and help premeds and medical students out in the medical journey, but I would like to provide a major concern:

Yes, US DOs suffer from stigma right now and that US MD is better than US DO, but I personally would not go far to say that any MD is superior to US DO. I think it is an advertising tactic used by some of the Caribbean schools to lure DO-worthy applicants into seeking MD despite massive risks of failing out of medical school in first two years and ending up in a lot of debt. There is also a significant risk in not matching at all from Caribbean as opposed to a minor disadvantage for DO.

I think your experiences may have hold true several years ago, but I think now the situation and environment have changed so significantly that going to the Caribbean is a very significant risk that is not worth taking.

Of course, adcoms/faculty/attendings like @Goro @gyngyn @ThoracicGuy @gonnif are welcome to correct and expand on my post.

 

[Kisangani]

Really all this comes down is you have to ask

a) what specifically are you opposed about the DO route(realize this philosophy talk in many ways wqy overstates the differences between how DOs and the rest of medicine approach things)

b) why do you want to go into medicine. Because honestly my first thought reading this post is not necessarily going into medicine with an interest in working with patients, altruism and interest in the field as much as perhaps pressure from others, issues of prestige/pride amongst various other things

Answer these two questions and you'll know what course of action you should take. Yes DOs have various disadvantages and biases well beyond just matching into top fields. This is even more true or Caribb MDs. And frankly your stats aren't near any position that you ahould be looking at turning down acceptances to reapply US MD. You are only as good as the offers you have and your stats and nothing about that screams reapply. It's either take your acceptance or decide to pursue another field. Both are perfectly viable choices. Which one you take nobody on here can answer for you and has the knowledge about you to tell you.

a) for many of the reasons VegasSurgeon pointed out.
b) I think that is a pretty unfair assumption. Yes, I would be lying if I said that my parents being physicians did not influence my career choice, but it is not the only nor the most significant reason. There is nepotism in medicine the same way there is in any other field, so making that assertion (based on I don't even know what part of my original post) is ridiculous.

 

[lyana]

drop the DO acceptance, let someone who actually wants to go to osteopathic medical school have it.

 

[VegasSurgeon]

So I respect and admire attendings who take the time to post on SDN and help premeds and medical students out in the medical journey, but I would like to provide a major concern:

Yes, US DOs suffer from stigma right now and that US MD is better than US DO, but I personally would not go far to say that any MD is superior to US DO. I think it is an advertising tactic used by some of the Caribbean schools to lure DO-worthy applicants into seeking MD despite massive risks of failing out of medical school in first two years and ending up in a lot of debt. There is also a significant risk in not matching at all from Caribbean as opposed to a minor disadvantage for DO.

I think your experiences may have hold true several years ago, but I think now the situation and environment have changed so significantly that going to the Caribbean is a very significant risk that is not worth taking.

Of course, adcoms/faculty/attendings like @Goro @gyngyn @ThoracicGuy @gonnif are welcome to correct and expand on my post.

If someone can hack it at DO school, there is no reason to believe that they couldn't complete a program at a (decent) Caribbean MD school. I would not advise that everyone consider going to the Caribbean. I would just say that in the case of the particular individual who started this thread it may be the best choice for him. While Caribbean school (even the big 4) tend to take applicants who are questionable candidates, the OP does not have stats anywhere close to the point that I would worry about him not being able to get through the basic sciences in the Caribbean.

 

[JustAPhD]

If you feel your stigma against going DO is worth the risk of being hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and not practicing medicine then go for it. Going to the Carib could possibly work out for you, or it could possibly ruin your life, that's up to you to decide.

The people here usually tend to minimize risk, especially when the risk is as great as this situation.

 

[Dr.Kitty]

If you really want to be a MD go through a SMP, do great and you will be accepted into a US MD school. Don't go DO, it clearly is going to make you miserable to be in an environment you don't want to be in, whether I agree with that thought process is another completely different story. Going the caribbean route will make your matching situation a very worrisome one, getting into a US MD school is still very possible with a successful SMP, and a bit higher MCAT score.

 

[deleted274002]

OP, I was in your position many years ago as well. I had an acceptance to a well-ranked DO school and an acceptance to several of the “Big 4” Caribbean schools. After discussing the issue with my parents (who are both MDs as well) and several of my mentors, I decided to go the Caribbean route. I would take what you hear on this site with a grain of salt regarding DO being a better option than the Caribbean. While it will make it easier for you to match (particularly into competitive specialties) when you graduate, it comes with disadvantages as well. The reality is that few people outside of the medical field have any idea what a DO is. That is a BIG disadvantage! Think about that…..your patients will confuse you as a glorified chiropractor or nurse half of the time. Additionally, DOs are not recognized as physicians in many countries (though this may be changing slowly). By any means please do not listen to anyone on this site saying that there is no difference between MDs and DOs. Many of them seem to be involved with administration or are stern advocates for various osteopathic schools (some may be DOs themselves who are insecure with themselves and the added competition that IMGs cause when it comes time to match) and are thus biased in their responses. While they are similar (MD and DO) in their roles and responsibilities in medicine, saying that they are indistinguishable is a severe exaggeration. Osteopathic doctors still face a certain stigma amongst medical professionals and their schools tend to have match rates that are significantly below those of US MD schools. Though keep in mind that match rates at international medical schools as a whole are far below those of both US MD and DO schools. However, unless you truly believe in the osteopathic “philosophy,” you should not go to a DO school (especially if MD was your first choice). The best way to look at it is that you will have a chip on your shoulder regardless of whether you go to a DO school of an international MD school. But down the road it will be easier for you to conceal where you went to medical school as opposed to the two initials after your name. Also remember that as you go through this process (starting in you M3 year) it really becomes more of who you know than what you know. Once you get into your residency, nobody really cares where you went to medical school, and they will never know unless you tell them. However, if you go to a DO school, it will be stitched onto your jacket that you studied an alternative form of medicine and couldn’t get into a US MD school. The relationships that you build with the attendings supervising your clinicals as well as the letters of recommendations you get will have a great amount of influence in determining where you can do your residency, fellowships, etc (though board scores are VERY important as well). Many people on this site will also claim that Caribbean schools have incredibly high attrition rates and only exist to rob people with nothing to show for it. While I cannot say that all Caribbean schools have good student retentions, I can only think of one person who I was close to at my medical school who dropped out due to academic reasons. Though there were others who dropped out, I am unsure of the exact attrition. I would estimate less than 10% of those who started did not graduate in my year. Even though this is a higher attrition rate than all US MD schools, many DO schools have attrition rates around this. I would say that so long as you are dedicated and focused while you are there, you should be able to pass and get through it. In my opinion, medical school was FAR easier than being an undergraduate. I suppose it depends on what you majored in, but I found the material and workload to be significantly reduced in medical school (and I scored high on all of my Steps). The time I spent in the Caribbean went by very quickly and the accommodations for students are getting better with time. The clinical rotations I got in the US were all adequate in my opinion and taught me what I needed to know in order to prepare for residency. While I did have some good luck along the way, I was able to easily graduate on time and matched into a low-tier (but respectable) general surgery residency (categorical). I also recently completed a fellowship in plastics which is something nobody ever thought I would be able to accomplish as an IMG (though I did need to complete a year of research before I was accepted). The reality is that some specialties will simply be out of reach to you as an IMG and will unfairly go to US MDs/DOs before they are offered to you (even if you have superior grades/board scores). As a matter of fact, IMGs may be one of the last groups of people who can be legally discriminated against in our society. However, you still have many options if you pick a broad specialty (IM or general surgery) and subspecialize later (Ex. IM to pulmonology or GI, gen surg to colorectal ect) Anything is possible with enough hard-work, determination, and perserverance. I would choose the Caribbean again over DO in a heartbeat and hope that you consider doing the same. At the end of the day, an MD degree is more valuable than a DO degree even coming from a school outside of the US. Best of luck to you in your pursuits.

-VegasSurgeon

 

[Goro]

Since you do not wish to be a DO. give up the acceptance and let someone who really wants to be a doctor take the seat. By all means, go to the Caribbean.

So as this admission cycle nears its end, I would appreciate some advice on what the best course of action would be. I recently got off of a waitlist for a DO school, am currently on a waitlist for a low-tier MD school, and have been accepted to both SGU and Ross. I know my numbers were a bit low for US MD schools (3.33gpa, 28 MCAT), but I thought I would have had some chance this cycle if I applied broadly and early (which I did....submitted 6/1/2015 and applied 40+ schools). I have plenty of research and clinical involvement throughout my undergrad and I believe that I solicited good letters of recommendation. Assuming that I will not get off of the waitlist for the MD program that I waiting to hear back from (most likely scenario at this point) what should I do? I know this question has been beaten to death on this forum, but with my GPA and MCAT both being borderline for MD consideration, would reapplying and trying to improve my MCAT and/or GPA be a wise decision. The MCAT has changed significantly since I last took it (2014 version) so I don't know if it would help me. Even if I improve me MCAT significantly, I am still stuck with a 3.33 gpa. I personally am not very interested in the DO philosophy/approach and feel that it would be disreputable for me to go simply as a backup. My parents (who are doctors themselves) are very opposed to osteopathic medicine and would rather send me to the Caribbean than have me attend a DO school. I am interested in internal medicine if that affects what I should consider doing in any way. Any input would greatly appreciated.

 

[NonTrad16]

If you really want to be a MD go through a SMP, do great and you will be accepted into a US MD school. Don't go DO, it clearly is going to make you miserable to be in an environment you don't want to be in, whether I agree with that thought process is another completely different story. Going the caribbean route will make your matching situation a very worrisome one, getting into a US MD school is still very possible with a successful SMP, and a bit higher MCAT score.

The OP originally got a 25, then 28, both using prep courses. Also, their GPA has a downward trend due to challenging upper level courses. (Found in their only other thread). I find it hard to believe that a third MCAT will somehow bring miracles. And an SMP seems appropriate in some cases, but do you really think they could somehow kick it into a high enough gear to get >3.5 in an SMP after failing to do so as an undergrad?

OP: Honestly, you can do whatever you want, but I think it would be valuable for you to honestly assess your history and weigh it against the odds you see for domestic MD, DO, or international MD options. If you'd be unhappy as a DO, turn it down. But of the many paths your life could take, DO does not seem the riskiest in terms of getting you to your goal of being a physician...

 

[Weirdy]

Looks like OP already made his decision.

Or their parents already made it for them.

Go Carib. Stop looking for affirmation. You won't get it here. If you don't like DO and already have a personal bias against it, you are just wasting a slot to someone who has it in their best interests to become a DO.

 

[Dr.Kitty]

The OP originally got a 25, then 28, both using prep courses. Also, their GPA has a downward trend due to challenging upper level courses. (Found in their only other thread). I find it hard to believe that a third MCAT will somehow bring miracles. And an SMP seems appropriate in some cases, but do you really think they could somehow kick it into a high enough gear to get >3.5 in an SMP after failing to do so as an undergrad?

OP: Honestly, you can do whatever you want, but I think it would be valuable for you to honestly assess your history and weigh it against the odds you see for domestic MD, DO, or international MD options. If you'd be unhappy as a DO, turn it down. But of the many paths your life could take, DO does not seem the riskiest in terms of getting you to your goal of being a physician...

OP's strong desires against becoming a DO are not going away. Given the history, I do find it that he/she will have to work harder than ever before to qualify for a US MD acceptance, but it's not out of reach if given the right tools. I'm not saying it will be easy, but if OP really feels like they need that US MD it's going to be the only way to get there. It's not unheard of for people to kick it into gear after performing poorly in undergrad; SMPs are risky, but I would much rather OP go through a SMP than the caribbean and that's where it seems like this is headed.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

So as this admission cycle nears its end, I would appreciate some advice on what the best course of action would be. I recently got off of a waitlist for a DO school, am currently on a waitlist for a low-tier MD school, and have been accepted to both SGU and Ross. I know my numbers were a bit low for US MD schools (3.33gpa, 28 MCAT), but I thought I would have had some chance this cycle if I applied broadly and early (which I did....submitted 6/1/2015 and applied 40+ schools). I have plenty of research and clinical involvement throughout my undergrad and I believe that I solicited good letters of recommendation. Assuming that I will not get off of the waitlist for the MD program that I waiting to hear back from (most likely scenario at this point) what should I do? I know this question has been beaten to death on this forum, but with my GPA and MCAT both being borderline for MD consideration, would reapplying and trying to improve my MCAT and/or GPA be a wise decision. The MCAT has changed significantly since I last took it (2014 version) so I don't know if it would help me. Even if I improve me MCAT significantly, I am still stuck with a 3.33 gpa. I personally am not very interested in the DO philosophy/approach and feel that it would be disreputable for me to go simply as a backup. My parents (who are doctors themselves) are very opposed to osteopathic medicine and would rather send me to the Caribbean than have me attend a DO school. I am interested in internal medicine if that affects what I should consider doing in any way. Any input would greatly appreciated.

Contrary to what you believe, your MCAT and GPA are not really close to being borderline for an MD school....look @ MSAR

 

[jwilliams1993]

I feel like applying DO and sitting on an acceptance when you don't agree with DO philosophy is like accepting a seat in a dental hygiene program or something when you have no intention of attending- you've already decided your future, but you're now messing with someone else's future and livelihood.

 

[VegasSurgeon]

Factually incorrect.

79% is not equal to 93%. That is a big difference. Also, the 50% that is quoted for USIMGs is taking all Caribbean schools (and those in others countries as well) into account. I can't prove it, but I would say that the match rate for USIMGs coming from one of the big 4 Caribbean schools is close to that of a US DO school. Except, you know, they will have the initials MD after their name in the end.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

OP, I was in your position many years ago as well. I had an acceptance to a well-ranked DO school and an acceptance to several of the “Big 4” Caribbean schools. After discussing the issue with my parents (who are both MDs as well) and several of my mentors, I decided to go the Caribbean route. I would take what you hear on this site with a grain of salt regarding DO being a better option than the Caribbean. While it will make it easier for you to match (particularly into competitive specialties) when you graduate, it comes with disadvantages as well. The reality is that few people outside of the medical field have any idea what a DO is. That is a BIG disadvantage! Think about that…..your patients will confuse you as a glorified chiropractor or nurse half of the time. Additionally, DOs are not recognized as physicians in many countries (though this may be changing slowly). By any means please do not listen to anyone on this site saying that there is no difference between MDs and DOs. Many of them seem to be involved with administration or are stern advocates for various osteopathic schools (some may be DOs themselves who are insecure with themselves and the added competition that IMGs cause when it comes time to match) and are thus biased in their responses. While they are similar (MD and DO) in their roles and responsibilities in medicine, saying that they are indistinguishable is a severe exaggeration. Osteopathic doctors still face a certain stigma amongst medical professionals and their schools tend to have match rates that are significantly below those of US MD schools. Though keep in mind that match rates at international medical schools as a whole are far below those of both US MD and DO schools. However, unless you truly believe in the osteopathic “philosophy,” you should not go to a DO school (especially if MD was your first choice). The best way to look at it is that you will have a chip on your shoulder regardless of whether you go to a DO school of an international MD school. But down the road it will be easier for you to conceal where you went to medical school as opposed to the two initials after your name. Also remember that as you go through this process (starting in you M3 year) it really becomes more of who you know than what you know. Once you get into your residency, nobody really cares where you went to medical school, and they will never know unless you tell them. However, if you go to a DO school, it will be stitched onto your jacket that you studied an alternative form of medicine and couldn’t get into a US MD school. The relationships that you build with the attendings supervising your clinicals as well as the letters of recommendations you get will have a great amount of influence in determining where you can do your residency, fellowships, etc (though board scores are VERY important as well). Many people on this site will also claim that Caribbean schools have incredibly high attrition rates and only exist to rob people with nothing to show for it. While I cannot say that all Caribbean schools have good student retentions, I can only think of one person who I was close to at my medical school who dropped out due to academic reasons. Though there were others who dropped out, I am unsure of the exact attrition. I would estimate less than 10% of those who started did not graduate in my year. Even though this is a higher attrition rate than all US MD schools, many DO schools have attrition rates around this. I would say that so long as you are dedicated and focused while you are there, you should be able to pass and get through it. In my opinion, medical school was FAR easier than being an undergraduate. I suppose it depends on what you majored in, but I found the material and workload to be significantly reduced in medical school (and I scored high on all of my Steps). The time I spent in the Caribbean went by very quickly and the accommodations for students are getting better with time. The clinical rotations I got in the US were all adequate in my opinion and taught me what I needed to know in order to prepare for residency. While I did have some good luck along the way, I was able to easily graduate on time and matched into a low-tier (but respectable) general surgery residency (categorical). I also recently completed a fellowship in plastics which is something nobody ever thought I would be able to accomplish as an IMG (though I did need to complete a year of research before I was accepted). The reality is that some specialties will simply be out of reach to you as an IMG and will unfairly go to US MDs/DOs before they are offered to you (even if you have superior grades/board scores). As a matter of fact, IMGs may be one of the last groups of people who can be legally discriminated against in our society. However, you still have many options if you pick a broad specialty (IM or general surgery) and subspecialize later (Ex. IM to pulmonology or GI, gen surg to colorectal ect) Anything is possible with enough hard-work, determination, and perserverance. I would choose the Caribbean again over DO in a heartbeat and hope that you consider doing the same. At the end of the day, an MD degree is more valuable than a DO degree even coming from a school outside of the US. Best of luck to you in your pursuits.

-VegasSurgeon

Joined Monday, 2 posts, troll 5/10

But in the off chance you are not a troll. You actually think that patients will care? Patients that don't have insurance/have cheap garbage insurance will probably not give a rats ass if you go to a DO school or an MD school. If you choose EM, critical care, ICU, ect, the patients aren't gonna be like "Oh you're a DO I don't want you to treat me". If the doc can save your life, then they won't give a ****.

The other big part is "once you are done with residency, then blah blah blah". Ok, well the rate limiting step is getting into residency...which isn't the easiest thing to do as a Carib or IMG grad (AAMC said something along the lines of 53.9% according to NRMP. Now compare that to the 80% DO match rate into ACGME slots (that's excluding AOA, you include that, the number creeps up to the 90's). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which is the better option. Dedication and focus can only go so far. Also, it speaks volume about your medical education if you thought it was FAR easier than undergraduate. You are clearly the exception rather than the rule.

Also, how on Earth would you determine that IMG's are being illegally discriminated!? PD's have every right to vet candidates based off the quality of their education, and the Caribbean is notorious for not providing quality education.

 

[JustAPhD]

Joined Monday, three posts (all in this thread), provokes the tired MD vs DO argument. Now, I'm no mathematician but I know I've seen this equation before.


Edit: We were thinking the same thing. ^

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

79% is not equal to 93%. That is a big difference. Also, the 50% that is quoted for USIMGs is taking all Caribbean schools (and those in others countries as well) into account. I can't prove it, but I would say that the match rate for USIMGs coming from one of the big 4 Caribbean schools is close to that of a US DO school. Except, you know, they will have the initials MD after their name in the end.

Lolz. Do you even know what evidence based anything is? That's like saying, you have lymphoma. I can't prove it, but I'm sure you have it.

Also, at the hospital I work at, both for the cardiology fellowship and EM residency, in the past they accepted IMG's. Now, they don't. They get high caliber US MD and DO applicants and they prefer those over IMG MD applicants. And that's from a probably low tier hospital that probably isn't the best ranking for residency.

 

[VegasSurgeon]

Joined Monday, 2 posts, troll 5/10

But in the off chance you are not a troll. You actually think that patients will care? Patients that don't have insurance/have cheap garbage insurance will probably not give a rats ass if you go to a DO school or an MD school. If you choose EM, critical care, ICU, ect, the patients aren't gonna be like "Oh you're a DO I don't want you to treat me". If the doc can save your life, then they won't give a ****.

The other big part is "once you are done with residency, then blah blah blah". Ok, well the rate limiting step is getting into residency...which isn't the easiest thing to do as a Carib or IMG grad (AAMC said something along the lines of 53.9% according to NRMP. Now compare that to the 80% DO match rate into ACGME slots (that's excluding AOA, you include that, the number creeps up to the 90's). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which is the better option. Dedication and focus can only go so far. Also, it speaks volume about your medical education if you thought it was FAR easier than undergraduate. You are clearly the exception rather than the rule.

Also, how on Earth would you determine that IMG's are being illegally discriminated!? PD's have every right to vet candidates based off the quality of their education, and the Caribbean is notorious for not providing quality education.

Assuming that you have not stated medical school yet like your profile suggests, you have no idea what kind of stigmas exist in the real world of medicine. Also, regarding your comment about the quality of education in the Caribbean, that is why standardized tests exist. To assess the aptitudes and qualifications of individuals from unlike backgrounds.

 

[Kisangani]

Ok, I really didn't mean to start a flame war over this topic (though I should have seen it coming). Thanks for your responses.

 

[tantacles]

a) for many of the reasons VegasSurgeon pointed out.
b) I think that is a pretty unfair assumption. Yes, I would be lying if I said that my parents being physicians did not influence my career choice, but it is not the only nor the most significant reason. There is nepotism in medicine the same way there is in any other field, so making that assertion (based on I don't even know what part of my original post) is ridiculous.

Vegassurgeon leaves out a lot. For example, the huge expense of living in the Caribbean. Everything, even food, is much more expensive. He also leaves out the fact that there is actually a bigger stigma, at least among medical professionals, against Caribbean schools than DO schools. As a recent US grad, let me tell you: The MD attendings I work with are very used to working with DO students and know exactly what their degree is, but they do not feel the same way about Caribbean MD's - they see them as inferior, and most of the residency programs I interviewed at were far more likely to take a US DO than a Caribbean MD.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

Assuming that you have not stated medical school yet like your profile suggests, you have no idea what kind of stigmas exist in the real world of medicine. Also, regarding your comment about the quality of education in the Caribbean, that is why standardized tests exist. To assess the aptitudes and qualifications of individuals from unlike backgrounds.

Lol I do because I've worked both in an inpatient and outpatient setting...with DO's and MD's...patients don't care.

Standardized tests sure they exist, but that still doesn't explain a 50% match rate for IMG. For your n=1 of your own success story, there are probably 30-40 stories of students who scored fairly competitive on their steps but could only do an IM/primary care residency at a low tier community hospital. There's a thing called the cost-benefit principle. The cost of going Caribbean far outweigh the benefits especially compared to DO. At the end of the day, the DO still treats the patient, still does everything the MD does, and makes the same money.

As one of the Derm docs from CCOM explained to me:
"I went to CCOM after 3 prior failed application cycles. I got my degree, crushed COMLEX, got my residency in derm, and am making the same amount as my stuck up colleague from UPenn. Not to mention, I have the same administrative responsibilities, and patients don't care because I treat them and do the exact same thing as my counterpart does".

 

[Lawpy]

Joined Monday, three posts (all in this thread), provokes the tired MD vs DO argument. Now, I'm no mathematician but I know I've seen this equation before.


Edit: We were thinking the same thing. ^

Better to give a benefit of doubt and see how this thread progresses.

(hint: the answer's likely this)

 

[Goro]

Actually, there are plenty of people who, at, say age, 25, are not the same persons they were at ages 18-21. At my school, at least 80% of the students who do well in our SMP (like have a 3.5 or better) do fine in our med school. The lure of the Carib diploma mills is that they appeal to student's need for instant gratification, and thus who do not wish to reinvent themselves.

The OP is exactly the type of gullible mark these purveyors of educational malpractice thrive upon.

. And an SMP seems appropriate in some cases, but do you really think they could somehow kick it into a high enough gear to get >3.5 in an SMP after failing to do so as an undergrad?
...

 

[Kisangani]

Actually, there are plenty of people who, at, say age, 25, are not the same persons they were at ages 18-21. At my school, at least 80% of the students who do well in our SMP (like have a 3.5 or better) do fine in our med school. The lure of the Carib diploma mills is that they appeal to student's need for instant gratification, and thus who do not wish to reinvent themselves.

The OP is exactly the type of gullible mark these purveyors of educational malpractice thrive upon.

I do not believe I have done so poorly in undergrad that I should need to "reinvent" myself. The lowest grade that I received in a class required to apply to medical school was a B. As for instant gratification, this process has been nothing but that. I know you work for a DO school, so I don't mean to offend you by not being enthusiastic about attending one, but saying I am gullible to consider another path is simply incorrect.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

I do not believe I have done so poorly in undergrad that I should need to "reinvent" myself. The lowest grade that I received in a class required to apply to medical school was a B. As for instant gratification, this process has been nothing but that. I know you work for a DO school, so I don't mean to offend you by not being enthusiastic about attending one, but saying I am gullible to consider another path is simply incorrect.

When the average MD GPA is hovering around a 3.7 and yours a 3.33, you have reinventing to do by MD standards (and even in DO standards).

 

[ThoracicGuy]

So as this admission cycle nears its end, I would appreciate some advice on what the best course of action would be. I recently got off of a waitlist for a DO school, am currently on a waitlist for a low-tier MD school, and have been accepted to both SGU and Ross. I know my numbers were a bit low for US MD schools (3.33gpa, 28 MCAT), but I thought I would have had some chance this cycle if I applied broadly and early (which I did....submitted 6/1/2015 and applied 40+ schools). I have plenty of research and clinical involvement throughout my undergrad and I believe that I solicited good letters of recommendation. Assuming that I will not get off of the waitlist for the MD program that I waiting to hear back from (most likely scenario at this point) what should I do? I know this question has been beaten to death on this forum, but with my GPA and MCAT both being borderline for MD consideration, would reapplying and trying to improve my MCAT and/or GPA be a wise decision. The MCAT has changed significantly since I last took it (2014 version) so I don't know if it would help me. Even if I improve me MCAT significantly, I am still stuck with a 3.33 gpa. I personally am not very interested in the DO philosophy/approach and feel that it would be disreputable for me to go simply as a backup. My parents (who are doctors themselves) are very opposed to osteopathic medicine and would rather send me to the Caribbean than have me attend a DO school. I am interested in internal medicine if that affects what I should consider doing in any way. Any input would greatly appreciated.

You got accepted at a DO school. You have a chance to be a doctor. You still have a chance at the MD school between now and the day of matriculation. SGU and Ross accepted you because you are above their minimal requirements on stats and you have the ability to get federal loans.

Your numbers are significantly low for most MD schools. While you would be considered an URM and that improves your chances, it still won't change things alot for you.

So what should you do? I would go with the DO acceptance and run. Yes, you have to learn OMM. Yes, they say they look at patients holistically and MDs don't. But really, it just means you learn OMM and have to be tested on that. When you finish school you can blow that off if you want and never worry about it again. DO is not a disreputable path and is, in fact, a legitimate path to practicing medicine. Years ago there was more of a stigma against DOs than today. But years ago the Caribbean schools were also a reasonable path to medicine for nontraditional students as well. Now? Caribbean students fight uphill battles to get residency programs. You have to make it through your schooling and pass certain exams and milestones just to be able to take some of your Step exams. Then you can't just pass those exams, you have to do above average. Then you have to get through your clinical rotations that could be scattered throughout the country. Once you do that, you apply to the match for a residency slot. Maybe you'll get in that first time. Maybe you won't. I've seen many stories from Caribbean students who apply to 150-200 programs and get maybe 10-15 interviews. Compare that to a DO student who would apply to less than half that and get a much higher number of interviews. In fact, by the time you would be graduating, the DO and MD program merger should be underway if not finished, so you will be accredited by the same group as MD residencies. You will have a far greater chance of matching.

Now let's also be realistic about your chances based on the info you posted. Your grades are below average for medical students and your MCAT is below average. If you go to the Caribbean you will have less help and far greater chances of flunking out. Of course, you may say that'll never happen to you. You'll be the one to get all A's and be in the top of your class. Maybe you will, but your past history does not suggest that. Compare that to a DO school. They have an investment in you and a desire to see you graduate. You will have more support and resources if you struggle.

You have people like VegasSurgeon who claims that Caribbean MDs are more desired than DOs. I find that attitude is mostly seen only in premeds and perhaps some in the older generations. Nowadays as a DO you have a chance at most anything you want. Yes, things like neurosurgery, ophthalmology, and derm might be harder, but those are hard for MD students as well and they are certainly very difficult for Caribbean students.

I would recommend taking a good hard look at things before you turn down a DO acceptance. Any future applications to MD schools will likely ask if you have been accepted to medical schools in the past and you may be hurt for turning down a DO acceptance. You have your chance now to be a doctor. How bad do you want it?

 

[Kisangani]

You got accepted at a DO school. You have a chance to be a doctor. You still have a chance at the MD school between now and the day of matriculation. SGU and Ross accepted you because you are above their minimal requirements on stats and you have the ability to get federal loans.

Your numbers are significantly low for most MD schools. While you would be considered an URM and that improves your chances, it still won't change things alot for you.

So what should you do? I would go with the DO acceptance and run. Yes, you have to learn OMM. Yes, they say they look at patients holistically and MDs don't. But really, it just means you learn OMM and have to be tested on that. When you finish school you can blow that off if you want and never worry about it again. DO is not a disreputable path and is, in fact, a legitimate path to practicing medicine. Years ago there was more of a stigma against DOs than today. But years ago the Caribbean schools were also a reasonable path to medicine for nontraditional students as well. Now? Caribbean students fight uphill battles to get residency programs. You have to make it through your schooling and pass certain exams and milestones just to be able to take some of your Step exams. Then you can't just pass those exams, you have to do above average. Then you have to get through your clinical rotations that could be scattered throughout the country. Once you do that, you apply to the match for a residency slot. Maybe you'll get in that first time. Maybe you won't. I've seen many stories from Caribbean students who apply to 150-200 programs and get maybe 10-15 interviews. Compare that to a DO student who would apply to less than half that and get a much higher number of interviews. In fact, by the time you would be graduating, the DO and MD program merger should be underway if not finished, so you will be accredited by the same group as MD residencies. You will have a far greater chance of matching.

Now let's also be realistic about your chances based on the info you posted. Your grades are below average for medical students and your MCAT is below average. If you go to the Caribbean you will have less help and far greater chances of flunking out. Of course, you may say that'll never happen to you. You'll be the one to get all A's and be in the top of your class. Maybe you will, but your past history does not suggest that. Compare that to a DO school. They have an investment in you and a desire to see you graduate. You will have more support and resources if you struggle.

You have people like VegasSurgeon who claims that Caribbean MDs are more desired than DOs. I find that attitude is mostly seen only in premeds and perhaps some in the older generations. Nowadays as a DO you have a chance at most anything you want. Yes, things like neurosurgery, ophthalmology, and derm might be harder, but those are hard for MD students as well and they are certainly very difficult for Caribbean students.

I would recommend taking a good hard look at things before you turn down a DO acceptance. Any future applications to MD schools will likely ask if you have been accepted to medical schools in the past and you may be hurt for turning down a DO acceptance. You have your chance now to be a doctor. How bad do you want it?

Thank you for your response (by far the most useful so far). I will seriously consider the points you've made. Also, how would I be considered a URM?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thank you for your response (by far the most useful so far). I will seriously consider the points you've made. Also, how would I be considered a URM?

I was basing that off your user name description of Zimbabwean940 that would indicate Zimbabwean heritage. You could be from DRC by the actual user name, though.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Joined Monday, 2 posts, troll 5/10

You and I were thinking the same thing. And also claims to be an attending but isn't verified.. Hmm.. Gotta love the Carib advertisers that come. Must be losing a lot of applicants now with the merger to be begging for applicants in SDN.

but saying I am gullible to consider another path is simply incorrect.

If you are considering the Carib then yes, you are extremely gullible.

 

[Kisangani]

I was basing that off your user name description of Zimbabwean940 that would indicate Zimbabwean heritage. You could be from DRC by the actual user name, though.

I'm very impressed you know where Kisangani is. I'm from Zimbabwe, however I am of English decent (US citizen now).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people_in_Zimbabwe

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I'm very impressed you know where Kisangani is. I'm from Zimbabwe, however I am of English decent (US citizen now).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people_in_Zimbabwe

Google helped with Kisangani. It's a shame how Mugabe treated the white citizens with all the land grabs. But that's a conversation for another time. Unfortunately you would not be considered an URM even though you would technically be an African American (which is why I don't really like that term).

 

[Kisangani]

Google helped with Kisangani. It's a shame how Mugabe treated the white citizens with all the land grabs. But that's a conversation for another time. Unfortunately you would not be considered an URM even though you would technically be an African American (which is why I don't really like that term).

Exactly. We left several years after our land was seized. But that brings up an interesting point regarding the MD vs DO debate. I would never consider moving back to Zimbabwe, but my family and I have considered living in South Africa. Because DO's have limited recognition in South Africa (and are unrecognized in Zimbabwe), would going to a DO school still be in my best interest under these circumstances over a Caribbean MD?

 

[Lawpy]

You and I were thinking the same thing. And also claims to be an attending but isn't verified.. Hmm.. Gotta love the Carib advertisers that come. Must be losing a lot of applicants now with the merger to be begging for applicants in SDN.

I agree but you don't need to be a verified physician to "claim" the attending status.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Exactly. We left several years after our land was seized. But that brings up an interesting point regarding the MD vs DO debate. I would never consider moving back to Zimbabwe, but my family and I have considered living in South Africa. Because DO's have limited recognition in South Africa (and are unrecognized in Zimbabwe), would going to a DO school still be in my best interest under these circumstances over a Caribbean MD?

It appears that DOs have full practice rights in South Africa and Zimbabwe by this map:

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a.../Pages/international-practice-rights-map.aspx

 

[Sardinia]

Vegassurgeon leaves out a lot. For example, the huge expense of living in the Caribbean. Everything, even food, is much more expensive. He also leaves out the fact that there is actually a bigger stigma, at least among medical professionals, against Caribbean schools than DO schools. As a recent US grad, let me tell you: The MD attendings I work with are very used to working with DO students and know exactly what their degree is, but they do not feel the same way about Caribbean MD's - they see them as inferior, and most of the residency programs I interviewed at were far more likely to take a US DO than a Caribbean MD.

If VegasSurgeon is truly a surgeon in Vegas perhaps the expense of living and the cost of food may be of no issue to him considering his double MD parents supported his Caribbean school aspirations. Honestly we don't know if the seat went to someone who is grateful for the chance to become a doctor, but I feel better knowing it wasn't taken up by someone who was paranoid about the initials stitched on his white coat.

 

[Kisangani]

It appears that DOs have full practice rights in South Africa and Zimbabwe by this map:

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a.../Pages/international-practice-rights-map.aspx

I must have been looking at a poor source of info (just did a quick google search). Thanks.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I agree but you don't need to be a verified physician to "claim" the attending status.

Oh I know, but if you aren't verified then the moment you say something questionable I doubt that it is true, I.E. VegasSurgeon's pro Carib slant.

 

[Sardinia]

@Kisangani I know of two Ross graduates who prioritized IM as their match choice this year. One failed the match process entirely and the other one matched into Family Medicine.
@VegasSurgeon How did your alma mater fair this year for match?

 

[Goro]

I can't sugar coat this, OP, you are displaying gullibility, as well as poor research skills as well, in addition to being in denial.

These aren't "a bit low" for MD schools, they're lethal, unless you live in LA, KS the Dakotas, or AR. The MCAT is 3 points below the median for acceptees, and your GPA is 0.4 points lower. This is below the 10th%ile for nearly all MD schools. Your LizzyM score is lower than that that of the Touro or CCOM student.

"I know my numbers were a bit low for US MD schools (3.33gpa, 28 MCAT),"

I do not believe I have done so poorly in undergrad that I should need to "reinvent" myself. The lowest grade that I received in a class required to apply to medical school was a B. As for instant gratification, this process has been nothing but that. I know you work for a DO school, so I don't mean to offend you by not being enthusiastic about attending one, but saying I am gullible to consider another path is simply incorrect.

 

[VegasSurgeon]

@Kisangani I know of two Ross graduates who prioritized IM as their match choice this year. One failed the match process entirely and the other one matched into Family Medicine.
@VegasSurgeon How did your alma mater fair this year for match?

I honestly do not know how well the school did this year in the match overall. I will say though that it is harder than it used to be to match into general surgery coming even from one of the better schools in the Caribbean (but it is still doable). The OP said specifically that he wants to go into internal medicine. If one wants FM, IM, Peds, or psych, the Caribbean is much more viable option.