DO vs. MD for emergency medicine? OPINIONS??

[polarh]

I am a paramedic with an ASA in Emergency Medicine. I recently went back to school and am pre-med working on my B.S. in Biology. A few questions:

1. Are there any schools that are better than others for emergency medicine?

2. I would like to go U of Minnesota Med school, are my chances higher for getting into HCMC residency if I do?

3. I find DO interesting and more my personal beleif in care. Would it be difficult to get into a highly competitive residency program like HCMC with a DO? Would my experiance as a paramedic help me?

4. As I understand, EM programs look for students with a diverse background, experience in medicine and those who are non-traditional in their education. Is this the case with all programs and residencies?

Thanks for your opinions!

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[willow18]

What's an ASA in EM?

1. Some schools may, on average, produce somewhat more EM physicians because of local departmental strength/exposure, but it really depends on the class. I wouldn't pick a school based on the specialty you now think you might want to enter; yes, you're a medic, but maybe neurosurgery will knock your socks off?

2. A quick peek at HCMC's residents page should answer that, but I doubt it. Get good board scores and clinical evals/SLORS and you'll go wherever you wish to.

3. See #2 and the residents list. What about Osteopathy do you find more interesting and how do you think an Osteopathic Emergency Physician differs from an MD?

4. EM programs, like all others, look for students with high board scores and good evals/letters. Naturally, you shouldn't be a rapist and such. But as I said above, I'd worry about your MCAT and your Step 1, not residency, for now.

 

[RxnMan]

...1. Are there any schools that are better than others for emergency medicine?...

Any school with an academic EM departments. Otherwise I don't think one school is known for producing EM residents.

...2. I would like to go U of Minnesota Med school, are my chances higher for getting into HCMC residency if I do?...

See above. I would apply more broadly than one school to increase your chances of getting in.

...3. I find DO interesting and more my personal beleif in care. Would it be difficult to get into a highly competitive residency program like HCMC with a DO? Would my experiance as a paramedic help me?...

The difference between MD and DO is more PR than substance. Some DO schools without clinical affiliations will require students to make up their own rotation schedule for MS3 and MS4, or only have places for MS3 and you make up your MS4. I think that's very difficult for students and I'd remove those places from your list.

The limited data I have from my survey (link my sig) does not suggest that EMT or paramedic experience helps at the EM resident level. It might be a good way for a pre-med to get patient care experience.

...4. As I understand, EM programs look for students with a diverse background, experience in medicine and those who are non-traditional in their education. Is this the case with all programs and residencies?...

I'm sure each program has their idea of the ideal applicant. One will like numbers better, others will want research on top of clinical excellence. All programs in all specialties will look for "diversity" to some degree. This is something that applicants talk to their faculty about when they get ready to apply, fitting the program rep and mission to the applicant.

You've got a long, long way to go until you get to that point. And who knows - many student's interests change after they get into med school.

 

[Dwindlin]

What's an ASA in EM?

I think he means an Associates in EMS.

 

[Apollyon]

I agree about an associate's degree - may have been a typo that should have been "AAS".

 

[pushinepi2]

Some of the best, most succint advice ever advertised:

"..You've got a long, long way to go until you get to that point. And who knows - many student's interests change after they get into med school."

Where were you when I was applying?

To further underscore the above point, residency programs themselves have individual preferences. Though every residency will train you to perform the requisite number of intubations and insert the right number of chest tubes, each program distinguishes itself through some mission statement or philosophy. For example, the University of Maryland program is urban, tertiary care-based. I'd say that our faculty have a strong "academic" bias in that they favor candidates who express an interest in education and fellowship training. Other programs are more "community" based and offer a broader scope of practice within the emergency department itself. Websites are a fantastic way to get an overview of each program, but the journey begins with medical school entrance. The distinction between DO and MD blurs even further as you progress through your clinical training. Generally speaking, the degree isn't an issue in the world of emergency medicine. Good luck, though, and keep up that paramedic cert!

🙂

-Push

 

[shortbread9]

Im pretty sure that a medical school has no bearing whatsoever on breeding em residents? or any specific speciality for that matter. keep in mind that most med schools md/do have to fulfill two years of the basics and two years of required rotations. most programs have at least two ed months built in and a couple elective months to do extra em time/sub internships. the key to getting into EM is more based on your performance as far as grades, step 1 (comlex/usmle), rotations scores, lors, etc...i've never heard of med school name itself being a factor. unless you spend all your ed time at your med schools affiliated hospital and they get to know your well and rank you...it doesn't matter. good luck

 

[december07]

Which ever school is cheaper, go to that one.

 

[tsdesai]

Which ever school is cheaper, go to that one.

i second that

 

[Altruist]

I don't understand this. Couldn't you just live off a resident's salary for 1 year as an attending and pay off all your loans?

Even if you are single at that point, probably not. Your salary after taxes is unlikely to cover the loans and accrued interest from med school.

If you can grind through 7 years straight of med school and residency and want to live a spartan lifestyle another couple of years after all that, you are a rare person indeed.

 

[Flushot]

It sounds more about what other obligations exist rather than the willingness to live way below one's means for a few more years. I could totally see myself doing this since I've done it for years (no TV, no furniture, studio apartment, etc.) for a few years, assuming I'm still single then.

 

[TeamZissou]

I could totally see myself doing this since I've done it for years (no TV, no furniture, studio apartment, etc.) for a few years, assuming I'm still single then.

Wow I can't even imagine how much more productive I'd be in this situation.

All the same, for me pro sports in HD = a little slice of heaven.

 

[Laryngophed]

All the same, for me pro sports in HD = a little slice of heaven.

QFT. I was talking to an M3 about the loan dilemma and he said this: "Either way you go, you owe a f*$k-ton of money. You can make it a little cheaper or not, but either way (in reference to the our school) you're going to be out 150k. For me, I'd rather live a little more comfortably now and do things (he mentions friends weddings, a night on the town) because I'll always have a job and a paycheck. I'll pay it back eventually."

I dunno, I hope to be somewhere in the middle. My wife probably doesn't like the idea of a Spartan lifestyle, but she also doesn't ask for diamonds on the weekly, so hopefully we'll be able to strike a balance. Unless television technology keeps getting better, because those pro sports in HD, well, you get the idea.

 

[MSmentor018]

QFT. I was talking to an M3 about the loan dilemma and he said this: "Either way you go, you owe a f*$k-ton of money. You can make it a little cheaper or not, but either way (in reference to the our school) you're going to be out 150k. For me, I'd rather live a little more comfortably now and do things (he mentions friends weddings, a night on the town) because I'll always have a job and a paycheck. I'll pay it back eventually."

I dunno, I hope to be somewhere in the middle. My wife probably doesn't like the idea of a Spartan lifestyle, but she also doesn't ask for diamonds on the weekly, so hopefully we'll be able to strike a balance. Unless television technology keeps getting better, because those pro sports in HD, well, you get the idea.

exactly, that's how I am doing it. after interest with your loan, it's like having a mortgage except you don't have to pay as much at once. dept of ed has taken over all loan consolidation, there are 7 diff repayment options. take your time, enjoy life, live within your means and it'll get paid off. the new law is you only get 6 mo deferment out of med school then obama wants his money back!!

 

[Dwindlin]

exactly, that's how I am doing it. after interest with your loan, it's like having a mortgage except you don't have to pay as much at once. dept of ed has taken over all loan consolidation, there are 7 diff repayment options. take your time, enjoy life, live within your means and it'll get paid off. the new law is you only get 6 mo deferment out of med school then obama wants his money back!!

According to our Fin. Aid people this has always been the case, residents simply qualify for "economic hardship" which is different than deferment in some way he explained that I was only half way listening to.

 

[MSmentor018]

According to our Fin. Aid people this has always been the case, residents simply qualify for "economic hardship" which is different than deferment in some way he explained that I was only half way listening to.

not quite.....our financial aid dept does d@#k so I got all this straight from the dept of ed website. I know with economic hardship (I had that for previous stuff) you need to be around the poverty line ([FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]1,353.75/mo ). on your taxes to qualify. you can accomplish this by dumping your money into IRA's, property, deductions on taxes, charity....etc. this is where the new changes hit. soon some of these deductions are no longer counted (not sure when). on july 1 09, people that did qualify for economic hardship under the 20/220 rule now don't and must do repayment. I think plenty of new residents use to fit into this category. I am sure there's more changes, I am still digging through the red tape. see if you qualify:

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/economichardship.phtml

 

[TeamZissou]

QFT. I was talking to an M3 about the loan dilemma and he said this: "Either way you go, you owe a f*$k-ton of money. You can make it a little cheaper or not, but either way (in reference to the our school) you're going to be out 150k. For me, I'd rather live a little more comfortably now and do things (he mentions friends weddings, a night on the town) because I'll always have a job and a paycheck. I'll pay it back eventually."

I dunno, I hope to be somewhere in the middle. My wife probably doesn't like the idea of a Spartan lifestyle, but she also doesn't ask for diamonds on the weekly, so hopefully we'll be able to strike a balance. Unless television technology keeps getting better, because those pro sports in HD, well, you get the idea.

Ya I was just talking to a classmate about this. We both had to take out a bit more money late in this quarter and the FA office kinda got on our case about it. But we both had the view that if we are faced with the decision of taking out an extra $1000 or so a year to have nice little perks like good coffee while studying or being able to eat healthy fast food rather than Burger King it is well worth it. After all, by the time we are done what difference is a total of $4000 for our four years here going to be in comparison to the $300,000 we already owe? Practically nothing so if it makes life that much easier then go ahead and get your study coffee!

 

[Venko]

Regarding the DO vs. MD question.

I think there is no difference in your ability to be an exceptional physician with either degree.

However, the reality is that there are plenty of residencies that are much more difficult to attend if you graduate from an osteopathic institution. Even residencies that accept osteopaths (not all do), many have limited spots for them or rank them lower than a comparable allopathic grad.

I dont agree with this personally, but it is true at this point and you should be aware before going into things. Also, if you attend a less well known osteopathic school, you may be in a real bind trying to get into the residency of your choosing.

Please PM if you need any more details.

TL

 

[deleted65604]

I find DO interesting and more my personal beleif in care.

What belief do you agree with that DOs hold and MDs don't? Why do you believe that?

Would it be difficult to get into a highly competitive residency program like HCMC with a DO?

Look at their website, 0/13 are DOs. There are residents from DO programs that do well and get into very competitive residencies, but you've got to be a star. DO is a strike against you. Sorry, it is. When it is just as competitive to get into DO school as an MD school, maybe this stigma will go away.

Would my experiance as a paramedic help me?

All medical experience is helpful, and will make you more confident in medical school in your clinical assessment. However, in medical school, you don't do much hands-on resuscitation. I think it could be a very, very small positive in applying for ER residency (when viewed by fellow ex-paramedics), but I don't think it would make a significant impact in your chances of matching. By the time you hit the interview trail, things that happened more than 3 years prior aren't all that relevant.

As I understand, EM programs look for students with a diverse background, experience in medicine and those who are non-traditional in their education

I sat through three different match meetings and the term non-traditional ever came up as being important. Even the idea of non-traditional being a positive didn't come up. Besides, a large proportion of ER residents are paramedics, so the idea of being a paramedic helping you get into ER residency because you are "non-traditional" is counter-intuitive. This phrase strikes me as too similar to so many clichéd advice columns on how to get into medical school, written by the gods of political correctness. ER residencies are looking for smart, motivated, hard-working, friendly people. Make that your goal.

 

[Apollyon]

Besides, a large proportion of ER residents are paramedics

I don't know about that. My experience is anecdotal, but wide-ranging, and the former EMS people were relatively VERY infrequent.