DO vs. MD match

[Flurane]

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Could someone confirm this for me: I heard that if you apply to both DO and MD residency, and you match DO first (in Feb), you have to withdraw fr MD match (or aka got locked in with the DO program unless you remove)?

Is it true? Should I then just go for MD match to avoid all this?

 

[Dr JPH]

Could someone confirm this for me: I heard that if you apply to both DO and MD residency, and you match DO first (in Feb), you have to withdraw fr MD match (or aka got locked in with the DO program unless you remove)?

Is it true? Should I then just go for MD match to avoid all this?

If/when you match in the DO match your application is automatically withdrawn from the allopathic match.

Once you match you CANNOT change your mind, pull your name out of the match or still go through the allopathic match.

 

[Krazykritter]

I think the common wisdom for a person applying to both match processes is this; Don't rank any program that you would not be willing to spend the next 3-5 years of your life.

It doesn't hurt to interview at & look at many different programs in both "worlds."

If there is only one AOA residency that you would be happy at, only rank that one & throw your chips in the ACGME basket.

 

[Taty]

If/when you match in the DO match your application is automatically withdrawn from the allopathic match.

Once you match you CANNOT change your mind, pull your name out of the match or still go through the allopathic match.

JP if I am interested in PCOM program is it necessary to rotate there???

So far I understand that it is better if I'll rotate in the places which I am interested in...

 

[Dr JPH]

JP if I am interested in PCOM program is it necessary to rotate there???

Its advisable to rotate anywhere you plan on applying to...at least the top few choices.

PCOMs surgical programs have become extraordinarily competitive the last few years...so its safe to say that WITHOUT rotating through here you dont have much of a shot.

 

[SomeDoc]

JP if I am interested in PCOM program is it necessary to rotate there???

So far I understand that it is better if I'll rotate in the places which I am interested in...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5084084&postcount=2

 

[MavsFan08]

JP if I am interested in PCOM program is it necessary to rotate there???

So far I understand that it is better if I'll rotate in the places which I am interested in...

Almost all DO programs give preference to applicants who rotate there and show an interest. You will be dropped to the bottom of the stack if you don't rotate there.

Obviously you can't rotate everywhere, so go to your top 3 choices.

It is not as imperative to rotate at MD residencies, but it still can be helpful.

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

I think the common wisdom for a person applying to both match processes is this; Don't rank any program that you would not be willing to spend the next 3-5 years of your life.

It doesn't hurt to interview at & look at many different programs in both "worlds."

If there is only one AOA residency that you would be happy at, only rank that one & throw your chips in the ACGME basket.

That's what I did. Worked out fine for me, however I did get about a million phone calls when I went unmatched in the DO match. Since my 1st choice had duel accreditation, I didn't worry and landed there anyway a month later.

Its advisable to rotate anywhere you plan on applying to...at least the top few choices.

PCOMs surgical programs have become extraordinarily competitive the last few years...so its safe to say that WITHOUT rotating through here you dont have much of a shot.

I agree with you JP, however if the applicant is a decent guy on paper, but a tool in person, it's best to stick to not rotating through the program. (Well best for the applicant, that is, not for the program.)

 

[Dr JPH]

I agree with you JP, however if the applicant is a decent guy on paper, but a tool in person, it's best to stick to not rotating through the program. (Well best for the applicant, that is, not for the program.)

Perhaps true for some specialties, but for surgical programs a personal appearance and month long audition rotation is a must.

 

[MavsFan08]

Perhaps true for some specialties, but for surgical programs a personal appearance and month long audition rotation is a must.

This is true for just about all competitive AOA residencies...

 

[Old_Mil]

Could someone confirm this for me: I heard that if you apply to both DO and MD residency, and you match DO first (in Feb), you have to withdraw fr MD match...is this true

Yes.

Should I then just go for MD match to avoid all this?

Yes.

 

[Dr JPH]

Yes.

Said the boy who has never been through the match.

 

[Old_Mil]

Said the boy who has never been through the match.

You know, I really have a hard time taking the opinion of anyone who ever thought highly enough of OMT to waste a year of his life as a fellow seriously.

 

[Dr JPH]

You know, I really have a hard time taking the opinion of anyone who ever thought highly enough of OMT to waste a year of his life as a fellow seriously.

Far from wasted my friend. 2 years of tuition paid for plus a spot in my #1 ranked residency program...sounds like I made out pretty good in the deal.

 

[Old_Mil]

Far from wasted my friend. 2 years of tuition paid for plus a spot in my #1 ranked residency program...sounds like I made out pretty good in the deal.

In other words, you delayed achieving a full doctor's salary by 1 year in order to work for (essentially) 50% pay for a year. As far as getting your #1 ranked residency, congratulations.

 

[Dr JPH]

In other words, you delayed achieving a full doctor's salary by 1 year in order to work for (essentially) 50% pay for a year.

You could look at it that way.

I look at it more as $80,000 @ 6.8% interest for 30 years that I will never have to pay. Not to mention the masters degree, publications, teaching experience and months of elective time that contributed to my ability to secure my top residency choice.

Plus the stipend allowed me to put money towards an engagement ring and also a house. Im still paying both of those off, but it might just be worth it in the long run...the house I mean. 😉

As far as getting your #1 ranked residency, congratulations.

Thank you.

 

[sweet2th]

JP- are you going to be my teacher next month?? I have OMM lab coming up 🙂

 

[Taus]

JP- are you going to be my teacher next month?? I have OMM lab coming up 🙂

u missed out by one year...he's busy cutting people open now

 

[Dr JPH]

Yeah...sorry. No more teaching for me in the OMM lab. Perhaps an occasional guest lecture if youre lucky.

 

[mitawa]

You could look at it that way.

I look at it more as $80,000 @ 6.8% interest for 30 years that I will never have to pay. Not to mention the masters degree, publications, teaching experience and months of elective time that contributed to my ability to secure my top residency choice.

Plus the stipend allowed me to put money towards an engagement ring and also a house. Im still paying both of those off, but it might just be worth it in the long run...the house I mean. 😉





Thank you.

Sounds like I need to be a fellow!👍

 

[BACMEDIC]

Okay, this is still confusing to me in terms of dual accreditation.

My issue is that how can I rank programs if I have not been on an interview. I may like a program because I rotated there or because they look good on paper, but the interview may change your ranking, so the dual program that may have been your top choice at one time may sink to 2, 3, 4,or….you get the idea. Also there is the added cost of using both match processes.

I can apply to a program that is dual via ERAS to the MD or the DO program.

1) Applying to the osteopathic program will get my application in sooner and perhaps an earlier interview, but does this mean I HAVE to use the AOA match or can I still go with the ACGME match? Is applying DO and using the MD match even legal?

2) Are there any advantages/disadvantages to applying via the DO route and then using the MD match for dual programs? This will save me money, but will the DME, a DO, look upon this unfavorable?

3) Is it considered bad form as a DO to apply to a dual program via the MD side?

4) Is there anything else I should be considering, something I have not thought about yet?

 

[group_theory]

Okay, this is still confusing to me in terms of dual accreditation.

My issue is that how can I rank programs if I have not been on an interview. I may like a program because I rotated there or because they look good on paper, but the interview may change your ranking, so the dual program that may have been your top choice at one time may sink to 2, 3, 4,or….you get the idea. Also there is the added cost of using both match processes.

I can apply to a program that is dual via ERAS to the MD or the DO program.

1) Applying to the osteopathic program will get my application in sooner and perhaps an earlier interview, but does this mean I HAVE to use the AOA match or can I still go with the ACGME match? Is applying DO and using the MD match even legal?

2) Are there any advantages/disadvantages to applying via the DO route and then using the MD match for dual programs? This will save me money, but will the DME, a DO, look upon this unfavorable?

3) Is it considered bad form as a DO to apply to a dual program via the MD side?

4) Is there anything else I should be considering, something I have not thought about yet?

I'm confused by your confusion 😛

You apply to both DO and MD programs (and dual DO/MD programs) using ERAS. Think of ERAS as AACOMAS/AMCAS. So you can apply to DO programs, MD programs, and dual DO/MD programs.

Then you apply for the match. You can apply for the AOA Match, the NRMP Match, or both. DO programs will use the AOA Match, ACGME programs will use NRMP match (for the most part, excluding a few specialties), and dually accredited AOA/ACGME programs can use both matches.

As a DO applicant, you can apply for both matches, or just one of them (AOA or ACGME).

If you interview at a DO program and like it enough to rank, then you rank it in the AOA Match. If you don't like it, you don't rank it in the AOA match. You can participate in the AOA Match and not submit a rank list ... in which case, you will go unmatch. That means you are still eligible for the NRMP Match if you apply and submitted a list. If you submit a rank list to the AOA and happen to match, then you are pulled from the NRMP Match. If you submit a rank list to the AOA and go unmatch, you are still eligible for the NRMP Match.


Programs that are dually accredited can participate in both AOA and NRMP Match (although some may choose to go through only one match). It is possible as a DO to match into a program via the NRMP Match (and initially go unmatched in the AOA Match). Let's say a program can take 8 residents a year. This hypothetical program specifically reserve 2 spots for the AOA Match. While you may not have matched for those 2 spots through the AOA Match, if the program likes you and rank you high enough in the NRMP Match (and you rank them high enough in your NRMP Match list), then you may still match into that program via the NRMP Match. And you still get the full benefit of the dually accredited program, even if you entered it via the NRMP instead of the AOA Match.


It's very confusing. Hope this clarifies some stuff.

 

[kirbyross]

I'm confused by your confusion 😛

You apply to both DO and MD programs (and dual DO/MD programs) using ERAS. Think of ERAS as AACOMAS/AMCAS. So you can apply to DO programs, MD programs, and dual DO/MD programs.

Then you apply for the match. You can apply for the AOA Match, the NRMP Match, or both. DO programs will use the AOA Match, ACGME programs will use NRMP match (for the most part, excluding a few specialties), and dually accredited AOA/ACGME programs can use both matches.

As a DO applicant, you can apply for both matches, or just one of them (AOA or ACGME).

If you interview at a DO program and like it enough to rank, then you rank it in the AOA Match. If you don't like it, you don't rank it in the AOA match. You can participate in the AOA Match and not submit a rank list ... in which case, you will go unmatch. That means you are still eligible for the NRMP Match if you apply and submitted a list. If you submit a rank list to the AOA and happen to match, then you are pulled from the NRMP Match. If you submit a rank list to the AOA and go unmatch, you are still eligible for the NRMP Match.


Programs that are dually accredited can participate in both AOA and NRMP Match (although some may choose to go through only one match). It is possible as a DO to match into a program via the NRMP Match (and initially go unmatched in the AOA Match). Let's say a program can take 8 residents a year. This hypothetical program specifically reserve 2 spots for the AOA Match. While you may not have matched for those 2 spots through the AOA Match, if the program likes you and rank you high enough in the NRMP Match (and you rank them high enough in your NRMP Match list), then you may still match into that program via the NRMP Match. And you still get the full benefit of the dually accredited program, even if you entered it via the NRMP instead of the AOA Match.


It's very confusing. Hope this clarifies some stuff.

Can I infer from this info that a dually accredited institution will take my COMLEX score so I don't have to take the USMLE?? It's another test, another 600 bucks, another stressor, and I'm pretty good at psyching myself out.

I'm hoping for the G.P. route; no plastics, derm, radiology, etc., but I want to be able to focus more on OMM and less on Biochem/Genetics as I cram these next 3 months before the big test...and the LAST THING I WANT TO DO is have to take the USMLE sometime late 3rd or early 4th year so I can be eligible for a residency slot in a dually accredited program!

 

[ShyRem]

If a program is dually accredited, you should be able to go into the DO match and only submit COMLEX scores.

 

[hopeinternist]

So if you do match in the DO match, with just submitting your comlex scores, and you complete a dually accredited residency, can you still be ABMS board certified? Only reason i ask is to avoid being forced to pay unreasonable fees etc. as part of being a DO and forced to be part of the AOA as part of being "DO board certified" Sorry if this question is vague, or if my understanding of the system is off, please do correct me. thanks!

 

[ShyRem]

As part of a dually accredited program, you can apply and get in via the DO match. You would have to complete your COMLEX series of exams. But with a dually accredited program you would be eligible to take BOTH sets of boards. Some programs require you take both sets, so ask at your interviews.

 

[DocEspana]

I'm confused by your confusion 😛

some insightful stuff i deleted in the middle

It's very confusing. Hope this clarifies some stuff.

as a side note to what you said. Little known, but true fact: you do not need to even apply for the AOA match to enter its scramble. As long as you're graduating from an American DO school you can scramble in their system as their scramble is 100% detached from their match (which is *not* true of the ACGME) and doesn't require any match data to be on file (also not true of ACGME). The only thing entering an empty ranking does is cost you $60 and gets the scramble list mailed directly to you (but your school is also supposed to disseminate that list to you, and the list is made publically available. So thats not much of an advantage). Its why I am so perplexed by why people would submit an 'empty' AOA match list.

I guess the "little known" part that came before 'fact' is what leads to people submitting empty AOA matches.