Do y'all think second year is more about how smart your are than first year?

[sharklasers]

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EDIT: i'm sure you figured this out, but title should say "you are" not "your are" lol

M1 seemed like it was all about how hard you worked
M2, the amount of effort you put in is definitely the biggest factor but now its more than memorizing, its being able to think critically and tie different bits of knowledge together in ways you have never seen before

just a thought, i'm only 2 weeks in so i don't know lol

 

[KinasePro]

M2, the amount of effort you put in is definitely the biggest factor but now its more than memorizing, its being able to think critically and tie different bits of knowledge together in ways you have never seen before

just a thought, i'm only 2 weeks in so i don't know lol

No, M2 is just more of the same. The topics are more interesting, but it's the same ol fire hose you drank from in M1.

 

[Kaustikos]

I'll report back after I finish it this year.

Or I'll get kicked out for my behavior.

 

[projectlogic]

No.

It just moves at a faster pace due to the increased amount of material. Requires more dedication and organization.

 

[Ugen]

It depends on your curriculum. For me, yes. Cardiovascular physiology takes a lot more thinking than Anatomy which is a lot more about memorizing over and over.

 

[migm]

EDIT: i'm sure you figured this out, but title should say "you are" not "your are" lol

M1 seemed like it was all about how hard you worked
M2, the amount of effort you put in is definitely the biggest factor but now its more than memorizing, its being able to think critically and tie different bits of knowledge together in ways you have never seen before

just a thought, i'm only 2 weeks in so i don't know lol

It depends on your curriculum, but I think you'll find there is a general trend for learning about things you've never heard about or truly understood in second year, whereas in your first year, your passing familiarity (premed, bio major, etc) helps you know more of the material (or at least some of the vocab). The quantity of the material is roughly the same, imo.

 

[RadicalRadon]

I would generally say yes. The smartest individuals in your class will be able to master and retain the most information in the least amount of time. When time is not a factor, hard workers (most medical students) may be able to equal the performance of the brightest in your class (who did not need to work as hard to achieve the same knowledge level).

Situations where the differences between hard-workers and the brightest are realized:
1. Year 2 -- Step 1 Studying and Mastering Pathology/Pharm/Etc.
2. Clinical Rotations -- Most of the day wasted on wards, limited time to study for shelf exams; Caveat: if bright student has poor social skills, then excellent test performance will be irrelevant in the face of poor clinical evaluations
3. Schools w/ Condensed Curriculums -- Duke takes a year, UCSF/Penn/Columbia 1.5 years for pre-clinical course work --> naturally bright students find it easier to master the material in a shortened time frame and will do better.

Hard work only takes you so far.

 

[rocketbooster]

I would generally say yes. The smartest individuals in your class will be able to master and retain the most information in the least amount of time. When time is not a factor, hard workers (most medical students) may be able to equal the performance of the brightest in your class (who did not need to work as hard to achieve the same knowledge level).

Situations where the differences between hard-workers and the brightest are realized:
1. Year 2 -- Step 1 Studying and Mastering Pathology/Pharm/Etc.
2. Clinical Rotations -- Most of the day wasted on wards, limited time to study for shelf exams; Caveat: if bright student has poor social skills, then excellent test performance will be irrelevant in the face of poor clinical evaluations
3. Schools w/ Condensed Curriculums -- Duke takes a year, UCSF/Penn/Columbia 1.5 years for pre-clinical course work --> naturally bright students find it easier to master the material in a shortened time frame and will do better.

Hard work only takes you so far.

Wrong. Generally speaking, hard work takes you farther than just being the brightest. The combo of brightest+hard work trumps all, but hard work by itself trumps just being the brightest by itself (without hard work). Plus you have to realize everyone in med school is pretty smart. The #1 person in the class is probably not miles above the average kid in the class...maybe miles above the last ranked kid though.

1. The less bright student can start studying for Step 1 earlier and do just as well as the brightest kid.
2. Generally agree, except for your caveat. Generally, 50% of your grade is clinical evals and 50% is shelf exam. Pretty much everyone is given HP clinical evals, so if the bright ppl kill the shelf then that'll boost them into the Honor range pretty much everytime.
3. Makes sense.

 

[RadicalRadon]

Wrong. Generally speaking, hard work takes you farther than just being the brightest. The combo of brightest+hard work trumps all, but hard work by itself trumps just being the brightest by itself (without hard work). Plus you have to realize everyone in med school is pretty smart. The #1 person in the class is probably not miles above the average kid in the class...maybe miles above the last ranked kid though.

1. The less bright student can start studying for Step 1 earlier and do just as well as the brightest kid.
2. Generally agree, except for your caveat. Generally, 50% of your grade is clinical evals and 50% is shelf exam. Pretty much everyone is given HP clinical evals, so if the bright ppl kill the shelf then that'll boost them into the Honor range pretty much everytime.
3. Makes sense.

It goes without saying that the brightest students must work hard to beat out others. On the wards and for step 1, usually everyone works their hardest if they are serious about being competitive down the road. My experiences have shown this to be how it works out.

I would strongly disagree with you about hard working students studying harder and obtaining an equivalent score on the steps. Usually there is a major time constraint and, more importantly, I think knowledge base and test-taking ability are the most important factors for 260+. I think that this score range is mostly off limits to average, hardworking students. My experiences on shelfs also show that the 99 raws are impossible to obtain for the hard workers no matter how hard they study but commonly achieved by the brightest in the class.

Also, I think you're really off if you think the top couple kids in a class at a top school are anywhere near the average in the class. Even at the elites, there is a vast gap between the middle and the top. lol, in my opinion, it's about as big a difference as the average american's income and the top 1%.

 

[Dr Love]

It goes without saying that the brightest students must work hard to beat out others. On the wards and for step 1, usually everyone works their hardest if they are serious about being competitive down the road. My experiences have shown this to be how it works out.

I would strongly disagree with you about hard working students studying harder and obtaining an equivalent score on the steps. Usually there is a major time constraint and, more importantly, I think knowledge base and test-taking ability are the most important factors for 260+. I think that this score range is mostly off limits to average, hardworking students. My experiences on shelfs also show that the 99 raws are impossible to obtain for the hard workers no matter how hard they study but commonly achieved by the brightest in the class.

Also, I think you're really off if you think the top couple kids in a class at a top school are anywhere near the average in the class. Even at the elites, there is a vast gap between the middle and the top. lol, in my opinion, it's about as big a difference as the average american's income and the top 1%.

From what I've seen, I think the top kids in the class (if by top you mean the people who score highest on tests) are simply the ones who focus on tests the most. Other people are perfectly content to score average and then distinguish themselves by volunteering/research/networking/whatever. So I am not sure the highest scorers are really dramatically smarter than everyone else.

 

[RadicalRadon]

From what I've seen, I think the top kids in the class (if by top you mean the people who score highest on tests) are simply the ones who focus on tests the most. Other people are perfectly content to score average and then distinguish themselves by volunteering/research/networking/whatever. So I am not sure the highest scorers are really dramatically smarter than everyone else.

By top, I mean 260+ step, all honor clinicals, hhmi or equivalent research fellowship. Dominance on tests, rotations and research is what I mean by top.

Volunteering, student groups, student government doesn't mean anything for residency and people should know that.