Do you consider the need to euthanize when selecting a research project?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

NotASerialKiller

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
7,057
I had to put down dozens of animals for my thesis project, and some of my labmates have commented that they're not sure they would have been able to do that. I was wondering if the need to euthanize is a determining factor for anyone when seeking out research opportunities, obviously only if your area of interest might demand it.

For anyone who is currently looking to get involved in research, I think it's a good idea to consider whether you can look something cute in the eye and say, "Tomorrow I'm going to kill you for science". I feel like a lot of pre-meds are eager to land any opportunity, and don't think about this until the task is at hand.
 
I thought you would be the last person on earth to start a thread like this.
 
B-YPraNCQAAjHOL.jpg


In case anyone hasn't seen it
 
Our lab used to have a little ritual where before we'd euthanize the mouse we'd explain to it that this wasn't our fault and that the mouse should direct its blame toward our PI.

Holy cow that's dark.

Edit: I can't say I'm much better. I used to crack my knuckles near my lab partner to make her skin crawl... she really hated doing cervical dislocations.
 
I had to put down dozens of animals for my thesis project, and some of my labmates have commented that they're not sure they would have been able to do that. I was wondering if the need to euthanize is a determining factor for anyone when seeking out research opportunities, obviously only if your area of interest might demand it.

For anyone who is currently looking to get involved in research, I think it's a good idea to consider whether you can look something cute in the eye and say, "Tomorrow I'm going to kill you for science". I feel like a lot of pre-meds are eager to land any opportunity, and don't think about this until the task is at hand.

To answer your question, this is absolutely something a person should consider before entering into a research project. I wanted to get involved with mouse work from day one in my lab, and loved it. I had a few peers though who had some serious ethical concerns with working with animals and it was not at all for them.
 
Holy cow that's dark.

Edit: I can't say I'm much better... I used to crack my knuckles near my lab partner to make her skin crawl... she really hated doing cervical dislocations.

It was embryology/dev bio stuff so technically we also performing abortions in addition to euthanizing the maternal mouse if you really wanted to get dark about it.
 
I couldn't do it. I'd be like, "**** this." Lab animals are just as cute as regular animals, I'd get too attached.

I mean, if they were people, maybe I could... j/k, j/k :laugh:
 
To answer your question, this is absolutely something a person should consider before entering into a research project. I wanted to get involved with mouse work from day one in my lab, and loved it. I had a few peers though who had some serious ethical concerns with working with animals and it was not at all for them.

I respect a person's decision to avoid working with animals, the only issue that I have is with people who go along with a project because it was a good opportunity etc., and then make a tech euthanize the animals because they're not comfortable with it. I feel really strongly that if you don't think you'd be able to do the deed yourself, you should not get involved with the research.

My supervisor offered to have someone else take care of the euthanasias for my project but I insisted on being the one to do it.
 
I couldn't do it. Just look at my avatar! I love little animals, and have owned them as pets. I just try not to think about animal research. I feel very conflicted about it.
 
I couldn't do it. Just look at my avatar! I love little animals, and have owned them as pets. I just try not to think about animal research. I feel very conflicted about it.

well to be fair, one of our grad students had a mating pair that just wouldn't breed with each other, so he kept them on his desk as pets.
 
B-YPraNCQAAjHOL.jpg


In case anyone hasn't seen it
That's amazing. Where is it?


I hunted for years before I realized I was being a cruel person-- essentially killing for fun, especially when I didn't personally eat meat. I only support killing anything if the benefits justify it. I'm glad the EU and the US have worked to reduce unjustified use of animals.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I started looking for research opportunities, the use of lab animals was a systematic disqualifier.

Ultimately the ethical differences between testing on non-human animals and testing on humans are very thin.
 
I had to put down dozens of animals for my thesis project, and some of my labmates have commented that they're not sure they would have been able to do that. I was wondering if the need to euthanize is a determining factor for anyone when seeking out research opportunities, obviously only if your area of interest might demand it.

For anyone who is currently looking to get involved in research, I think it's a good idea to consider whether you can look something cute in the eye and say, "Tomorrow I'm going to kill you for science". I feel like a lot of pre-meds are eager to land any opportunity, and don't think about this until the task is at hand.

And yet another reason why I avoid any research involving animals like wildfire.
 
I've done it (not crazy about it, obviously), but I recently learned that it makes a difference to me how it's being done. Someone in our lab recently asked me for help using a mini-guillotine on fully alert rats. I politely declined.
 
I grew up coming into lab with my mother. Other than Sharpie/etOH wars and messing with stir bars, my favorite thing was to play with the live mice in lab...topped only by being able to look at/help with the dissections when my mother harvested inguinal nodes. It never seemed like a contradiction when I was a child. Still doesn't feel like one to me...after all, I've pet cows and sheep, and we kill them. (Side note: I've never figured out why eating dog/horse meat was so bad either, other than that it sounds super low-quality...there's a reason we don't raise them as meat animals).
 
That's amazing. Where is it?


I hunted for years before I realized I was being a cruel person-- essentially killing for fun, especially when I didn't personally eat meat. I only support killing anything if the benefits justify it. I'm glad the EU and the US have worked to reduce unjustified use of animals.

It's outside the Institute of Cytology and Genetics in Novosibirsk, Russia.
 
I recently was given the chance to assist in a non-survival surgery on this pig my lab had been raising for months, and jumped at the idea because it sounded cool to do surgery with the residents.

Watching the pig have a heart attack and die in the OR was honestly one of the sadest things I've ever seen. It's blood was literally on my hands as it died. That sucked...
 
I did computational chemistry research and rarely had to go to a physical lab space, let alone deal with research animals. The world of scientific research is vast, think outside the bio box.
 
I think the correct term is "sacrifice"
There's a lab near mine where they routinely raise dogs and put them through heart failure. It's so sad 🙁
 
I'm glad the EU and the US have worked to reduce unjustified use of animals.

On behalf of Canada I forgive you.

It depends what you consider justifiable though. Most (not all) of us would agree that advancing cancer research is worthy of animal use, but there are many other kinds of research that involve animal death.

In ecology it's not at all uncommon to kill a few hundred animals for one study so you can find out, for example, whether offspring raised in the presence of a certain predator change tissue type during mass loss. Ecologists and physiologists would find this interesting, but I think the average person might have a problem with it.

I think more than anything these policies do a good job of ensuring the animals are treated as well as possible.


I did computational chemistry research and rarely had to go to a physical lab space, let alone deal with research animals. The world of scientific research is vast, think outside the bio box.

Absolutely, I didn't mean that this applies to everyone, this was mainly a question for people who work in an area where this is commonly done. Or for people who avoided those areas for this exact reason.
 
I didn't do research though. Tried it. Got bored. Eh. I'd rather work with people.
 
I recently was given the chance to assist in a non-survival surgery on this pig my lab had been raising for months, and jumped at the idea because it sounded cool to do surgery with the residents.

Watching the pig have a heart attack and die in the OR was honestly one of the sadest things I've ever seen. It's blood was literally on my hands as it died. That sucked...

Intellectually justifying it is definitely different from experiencing it. I worked with my animals for 8 months before the culling. Probably shouldn't have named so many of them.
 
I did lots and lots of mouse work for my PhD thesis and I have reached the point that I will not do in vivo work anymore.

On top of that, it's onerous enough to jump through USDA and IACUC hoops as it is.

I had to put down dozens of animals for my thesis project, and some of my labmates have commented that they're not sure they would have been able to do that. I was wondering if the need to euthanize is a determining factor for anyone when seeking out research opportunities, obviously only if your area of interest might demand it.

For anyone who is currently looking to get involved in research, I think it's a good idea to consider whether you can look something cute in the eye and say, "Tomorrow I'm going to kill you for science". I feel like a lot of pre-meds are eager to land any opportunity, and don't think about this until the task is at hand.
 
I respect a person's decision to avoid working with animals, the only issue that I have is with people who go along with a project because it was a good opportunity etc., and then make a tech euthanize the animals because they're not comfortable with it. I feel really strongly that if you don't think you'd be able to do the deed yourself, you should not get involved with the research.

My supervisor offered to have someone else take care of the euthanasias for my project but I insisted on being the one to do it.

Don't eat sausage if you refuse to see how it's made.
 
I respect a person's decision to avoid working with animals, the only issue that I have is with people who go along with a project because it was a good opportunity etc., and then make a tech euthanize the animals because they're not comfortable with it. I feel really strongly that if you don't think you'd be able to do the deed yourself, you should not get involved with the research.

My supervisor offered to have someone else take care of the euthanasias for my project but I insisted on being the one to do it.
It's actually kind of weird. Like, I could kill an animal for food no problem. But something about lab animals bugs me. Like, they're suffering for us, and then we kill them. I couldn't. And I would say it's fair that I shouldn't be working in animal research because of that (I certainly never intend to).
 
This was the topic I used for some of my secondary essays where it asked to discuss a challenging dilemma you had to face. I'm an animal lover, I've worked in animal rescue since I was very young, and my undergraduate research at two different institutions used rats and required sacrificing them because we were studying the brain. It was even harder on me with a couple projects because the rats had to be comfortable around humans for the experiments to not be confounded by their fear response from us, which meant I went to socialize with them almost every day as we were raising them. People who have never been around rats don't realize that they act kind of like dogs. They would run to the front of their cages when I came in the room. 🙁 (Mice, on the other hand, are little jerks and we had to wear thick gloves when handling them to avoid bites). While it was certainly sad, I completely believe in the use of animal models for biomedical research, especially in the area we were studying as the pathways are very poorly understood and it was easy to see how these preliminary studies could someday benefit millions of people. I certainly did not choose these labs because of how the animals were used (dang, that would be super morbid...), but both labs were doing work focusing on diseases that affect a huge portion of the population, and trying to understand a relationship in the brain in an animal model is essential to understanding it in a human.

I've done it (not crazy about it, obviously), but I recently learned that it makes a difference to me how it's being done. Someone in our lab recently asked me for help using a mini-guillotine on fully alert rats. I politely declined.

Unless the rats being fully alert was critical to whatever they were studying, that should not have been permitted and I'm sure it was going against their IACUC-approved protocol.

I couldn't do it. Just look at my avatar! I love little animals, and have owned them as pets. I just try not to think about animal research. I feel very conflicted about it.

Your avatar was the desktop background on the computer in my lab's office.
 
Unless the rats being fully alert was critical to whatever they were studying, that should not have been permitted and I'm sure it was going against their IACUC-approved protocol.

Nah, everything was above board. Our institution doesn't play when it comes to IACUC, and everything she planned to do was written into the protocol (I was given a copy of it). I just personally wouldn't have been able to touch that project with a ten foot pole.

People who have never been around rats don't realize that they act kind of like dogs. They would run to the front of their cages when I came in the room. 🙁 (Mice, on the other hand, are little jerks and we had to wear thick gloves when handling them to avoid bites).

Seriously why are mice so mean.
 
Nah, everything was above board. Our institution doesn't play when it comes to IACUC, and everything she planned to do was written into the protocol (I was given a copy of it). I just personally wouldn't have been able to touch that project with a ten foot pole.



Seriously why are mice so mean.

Mice are pure evil. I'm lucky all I had to do was ear-punch and sac the adults. The mice I ran drug tests on were only 7-14 days old.
 
Nah, everything was above board. Our institution doesn't play when it comes to IACUC, and everything she planned to do was written into the protocol (I was given a copy of it). I just personally wouldn't have been able to touch that project with a ten foot pole.

I likely wouldn't have touched it either. We completely anesthetized ours before sacrificing them.
 
This was the topic I used for some of my secondary essays where it asked to discuss a challenging dilemma you had to face. I'm an animal lover, I've worked in animal rescue since I was very young, and my undergraduate research at two different institutions used rats and required sacrificing them because we were studying the brain. It was even harder on me with a couple projects because the rats had to be comfortable around humans for the experiments to not be confounded by their fear response from us, which meant I went to socialize with them almost every day as we were raising them. People who have never been around rats don't realize that they act kind of like dogs. They would run to the front of their cages when I came in the room. 🙁 (Mice, on the other hand, are little jerks and we had to wear thick gloves when handling them to avoid bites). While it was certainly sad, I completely believe in the use of animal models for biomedical research, especially in the area we were studying as the pathways are very poorly understood and it was easy to see how these preliminary studies could someday benefit millions of people. I certainly did not choose these labs because of how the animals were used (dang, that would be super morbid...), but both labs were doing work focusing on diseases that affect a huge portion of the population, and trying to understand a relationship in the brain in an animal model is essential to understanding it in a human.

Forced bonding before they're sac'd, are you sure your PI didn't secretly volunteer you for a psychology study?

I did mine by injection, they sometimes had some odd muscular responses but I believe they were out by then.
 
I was pretty lucky, right before I joined my lab, my pharm-type class went into detail about euthanizing, which really gave me a good solid foot on the ground before being asked explicitly about "euthanizing animals".

Apparently my quick response of "no problem" was a good sign and part of the choice in my selection, because hesitation in the past with my lab-mates has left the lab with hesitation. Some people who trained hard for months, failed to go through with intraperiotneal injections, let alone euthanize.

I put on my game face, but I have a sensitive energy, and go into those sacrificial days with a particular mindset of respect for research, the bigger picture and detachment. i hate the room. The thousands upon thousands lives lost doesn't bode with my energy. I just hate killing off litter because we dont want to spend 30 dollars a month
 
I've had to euthanize pregnant female mice at various stages of pregnancy and make chopped embryo soup for cell culture. Kinda sucks but you've got to keep the bigger picture in mind - maybe the work you do will help actual people in the future and give patients more time to spend with their families and loved ones.
I would never work on dogs though. I ****ing love dogs.
 
I was pretty lucky, right before I joined my lab, my pharm-type class went into detail about euthanizing, which really gave me a good solid foot on the ground before being asked explicitly about "euthanizing animals".

Apparently my quick response of "no problem" was a good sign and part of the choice in my selection, because hesitation in the past with my lab-mates has left the lab with hesitation. Some people who trained hard for months, failed to go through with intraperiotneal injections, let alone euthanize.

I put on my game face, but I have a sensitive energy, and go into those sacrificial days with a particular mindset of respect for research, the bigger picture and detachment. i hate the room. The thousands upon thousands lives lost doesn't bode with my energy. I just hate killing off litter because we dont want to spend 30 dollars a month

It was definitely emotional when I first started, but I had to do so many it became routine and felt like any other job. Now that I'm done with that though I'm sure if I had to do it again that process would start over.
 
Every time I turn on that O2/ Isoflurane knob and see those cute mice fall into slumber I get upset, but it's gotta be done
 
You damn hippies!

I will break the animals neck before stabbing it a few times with scalpel. I love killing things.

jokkkeee
 
(Side note: I've never figured out why eating dog/horse meat was so bad either, other than that it sounds super low-quality...there's a reason we don't raise them as meat animals).
Studies have shown horse meat is probably better for you in general than cow
My research involves human subjects. I'd need a huge pay raise to consider euthanizing any of them.
Hopefully you're first in line 😀
 
To me, it all depends what the end cause is. I know that the animal research I am doing will potentially save thousands of people's lives. Also, all of our protocols are written in the absolute most humane manner possible. Honestly, I feel like many of our lab mice live a better life than wild ones... they are never in pain for any sustained period, they get the perfect conditions while living, and then euthanasia is simply going to sleep by CO2. .... Some of those rodent killing spray and traps are much, much more painful and cruel to me.
 
Studies have shown horse meat is probably better for you in general than cow

Hopefully you're first in line 😀
Then I'm totes down to eat horses!
I thought predators, in general, were not as good for us, but I never bothered to look it up.
 
Top