Do you have to be a GENIUS to be a doctor

[StayingFocused]

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When I was in grade school I wasn't in gifted courses, when I was in high school I was in accelerated and then some honors courses and I did better than almost all the honors kids because I studied more than them.

My ACT score was only a 28, but I didn't study so much for it because I didn't think I would do very well on it no matter how hard I studied.

I'm really good at science and I love it. When we took a IQ/intelligence test in school my science score was the only one that was in the gifted range.

But I feel really discouraged now because my goal is to get into an MSTP school and I feel like there is no way I will get into one when I'm up against students who were valedictorians of their highschools, in all gifted courses, and have super high IQs.

I'm smart but I have to study A LOT to do well when others don't. My parents are also super discouraging because they want me to play it safe and apply for early assurance programs at a not very prestigious medical school.

Does/has anyone ever felt like this??

Thanks

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

When I was in grade school I wasn't in gifted courses, when I was in high school I was in accelerated and then some honors courses and I did better than almost all the honors kids because I studied more than them.

My ACT score was only a 28, but I didn't study so much for it because I didn't think I would do very well on it no matter how hard I studied.

I'm really good at science and I love it. When we took a IQ/intelligence test in school my science score was the only one that was in the gifted range.

But I feel really discouraged now because my goal is to get into an MSTP school and I feel like there is no way I will get into one when I'm up against students who were valedictorians of their highschools, in all gifted courses, and have super high IQs.

I'm smart but I have to study A LOT to do well when others don't. My parents are also super discouraging because they want me to play it safe and apply for early assurance programs at a not very prestigious medical school.

Does/has anyone ever felt like this??

Thanks

Don't sweat it. I would say that the vast majority of people in medical schools would not qualify as geniuses, and have to work hard at what they do.

Also, I wouldn't be concerned about the prestige of medical school right now. How you do once you're in medical school is more important than which medical school you go to.

 

[DrYoda]

When I was in grade school I wasn't in gifted courses, when I was in high school I was in accelerated and then some honors courses and I did better than almost all the honors kids because I studied more than them.

My ACT score was only a 28, but I didn't study so much for it because I didn't think I would do very well on it no matter how hard I studied.

I'm really good at science and I love it. When we took a IQ/intelligence test in school my science score was the only one that was in the gifted range.

But I feel really discouraged now because my goal is to get into an MSTP school and I feel like there is no way I will get into one when I'm up against students who were valedictorians of their highschools, in all gifted courses, and have super high IQs.

I'm smart but I have to study A LOT to do well when others don't. My parents are also super discouraging because they want me to play it safe and apply for early assurance programs at a not very prestigious medical school.

Does/has anyone ever felt like this??

Thanks

I'm assuming you are somewhere early in college. Your high school credentials don't matter to med school so it's not worth worrying about yours or anyone else's. concentrate on performing well in college.

Med students are overall above average intelligence but most I would not describe as geniuses.

 

[jenkim]

Take a chill poill there gunner

 

[mvenus929]

You need to be smart, but you don't need to be a genius. Hard work will be what determines who succeeds in med school.

 

[DrYoda]

You need to be smart, but you don't need to be a genius. Hard work will be what determines who succeeds in med school.

Hard work is a big part of it, but is not the only component. Intelligence does play a role.

 

[Bartelby]

Hard work is enough, I think. Go to college, have fun, do well, and you might find yourself surprised to discover that a year or two from now you have found that some other field is your passion anyway.

 

[Penner]

Are you kidding me, pre-meds are stereotypically dumber at my school.

Most of medicine (90% of practicing medicine) is memorization and repetition. Except we shouldn't let idiots become doctors because they'll kill people.

 

[HaiThar]

Oh god, if you have to be a genius then I am so screwed...

 

[jenkim]

Are you kidding me, pre-meds are stereotypically dumber at my school.

Most of medicine (90% of practicing medicine) is memorization and repetition. Except we shouldn't let idiots become doctors because they'll kill people.

Ye such a large amount of memorization that you need a certian intelligence level to understand and be able to store all that info up there - a genius no, but you need some degree of intellectual aptitude

 

[NotAsking4Much]

When I was in grade school I wasn't in gifted courses, when I was in high school I was in accelerated and then some honors courses and I did better than almost all the honors kids because I studied more than them.

My ACT score was only a 28, but I didn't study so much for it because I didn't think I would do very well on it no matter how hard I studied.

I'm really good at science and I love it. When we took a IQ/intelligence test in school my science score was the only one that was in the gifted range.

But I feel really discouraged now because my goal is to get into an MSTP school and I feel like there is no way I will get into one when I'm up against students who were valedictorians of their highschools, in all gifted courses, and have super high IQs.

I'm smart but I have to study A LOT to do well when others don't. My parents are also super discouraging because they want me to play it safe and apply for early assurance programs at a not very prestigious medical school.

Does/has anyone ever felt like this??

Thanks

Medicine is all about pattern recognition. If you see the same thing over and over, you'll soon recognize patterns in how diseases manifest themselves in which helps with your diagnoses the next time.

Obviously, you need a level of intelligence to handle all the material / background material required, but if anything - the most important things in my opinion are dedication and persistence.

 

[StayingFocused]

Medicine is all about pattern recognition. If you see the same thing over and over, you'll soon recognize patterns in how diseases manifest themselves in which helps with your diagnoses the next time.

Obviously, you need a level of intelligence to handle all the material / background material required, but if anything - the most important things in my opinion are dedication and persistence.

SWEET!!! I'm awesome at recognizing patterns. 🙂

Thanks for all these answers, I feel so much better now!!! I may not be a genius but I'm very motivated and dedicated, yeah!

 

[fisticuffs]

If you can get admitted to medical school, then you're smart enough to handle it. If you don't get admitted then it's a moot point. Succeeding as a pre-med (and as a medical student, as I understand it) is 10% intelligence and 90% hard work.

 

[tmeggs]

There was actually a recent study, which I can't find the link for right now, but it said that diligence wins over IQ. They looked at the grades of students that had high IQ's and average IQ's, recorded study habits through teacher and self-report, and recorded grades. The kids who studied more and with more focus had better grades than the kids who just tested smart. So work hard and you will usually do well!

 

[empty p orbital]

No. Geniuses get PhDs not MDs... being a medical doctor would be too much memorization and grunt work for their superior minds 🙂.

Success in just about ANY field is WAY more dependent on work ethic and diligence than intelligence.

I had a wise professor once who said, "Those who get A's in this class will have good jobs, those who get B's will be managing the students who get A's, and those who get C's will be the CEOs of the companies where all the A and B students work."

 

[Prism328]

No. Geniuses get PhDs not MDs... being a medical doctor would be too much memorization and grunt work for their superior minds 🙂.

Success in just about ANY field is WAY more dependent on work ethic and diligence than intelligence.

I had a wise professor once who said, "Those who get A's in this class will have good jobs, those who get B's will be managing the students who get A's, and those who get C's will be the CEOs of the companies where all the A and B students work."

thats kind of depressing...

Anyways, I assume you need to have an above average critical thinking ability to do well on the MCATs

 

[Stewie32]

When I was in grade school I wasn't in gifted courses, when I was in high school I was in accelerated and then some honors courses and I did better than almost all the honors kids because I studied more than them.

My ACT score was only a 28, but I didn't study so much for it because I didn't think I would do very well on it no matter how hard I studied.

I'm really good at science and I love it. When we took a IQ/intelligence test in school my science score was the only one that was in the gifted range.

But I feel really discouraged now because my goal is to get into an MSTP school and I feel like there is no way I will get into one when I'm up against students who were valedictorians of their highschools, in all gifted courses, and have super high IQs.

I'm smart but I have to study A LOT to do well when others don't. My parents are also super discouraging because they want me to play it safe and apply for early assurance programs at a not very prestigious medical school.

Does/has anyone ever felt like this??

Thanks

Don't fret about whether or not you will be able to do it. Focus on what you will do to achieve your goal. If you are studying a lot more than others, maybe you are studying inefficiently. Check out this blog for some tips: http://calnewport.com/blog/. In addition, while I am having trouble finding the article at the moment, I remember reading an article saying that the average ACT scores for practicing doctors was a 27 (it may have gone up since). So your 28 would actually put you above average.

Don't psyche yourself out. If you really want this and have focused goals, you will be able to reach your goal.

 

[plzNOCarribbean]

Take a chill poill there gunner

lmao

 

[fizzgig]

I had a wise professor once who said, "Those who get A's in this class will have good jobs, those who get B's will be managing the students who get A's, and those who get C's will be the CEOs of the companies where all the A and B students work."

LOL.


with your screen name and that quote there's just some whimsical quality to your post... you know, in a sad but probably true sorta way 🙂

or it might be the friday night lights. and by lights i mean wine.

 

[Parts Unknown]

You need to be smart, but you don't need to be a genius. Hard work will be what determines who succeeds in med school.

There are four groups of people in medical school:

1. Smart and work hard
2. Smart and lazy
3. Dumb and work hard
4. Dumb and lazy

After M1 and M2 groups 1 and 4 will be in the first and fourth quartiles, respectively. The remaining students will commingle and shake out in the second and third quartiles.

While hard work is never a bad thing, there will be people in your medical school class with brain power you simply cannot match.

 

[NickNaylor]

Your IQ score is a major part of your application, so you'll be fine.

 

[shiftingmirage]

Somewhere they told us that the average IQ for physicians is 120. Depending on who you ask, some say genius starts at 135, others 140, there's probably another number floating around. But no, one does not need to be a genius as 1/2 physicians have IQs of 120 or lower.

IQ tests are standardized so that 100 is the mean and I think standard deviation is 15 (maybe 20).

 

[Suenya]

There are probably quite a few doctors of average intelligence. Intelligence is of diminishing marginal utility in most cases anyway, medicine is not one of the exceptions.

 

[jenkim]

Somewhere they told us that the average IQ for physicians is 120. Depending on who you ask, some say genius starts at 135, others 140, there's probably another number floating around. But no, one does not need to be a genius as 1/2 physicians have IQs of 120 or lower.

IQ tests are standardized so that 100 is the mean and I think standard deviation is 15 (maybe 20).

So if thats true it shows doctor's on average arn't geniuses, but are a hell of alot smarter then the public at large

 

[MossPoh]

Medicine is all about pattern recognition. If you see the same thing over and over, you'll soon recognize patterns in how diseases manifest themselves in which helps with your diagnoses the next time.

Obviously, you need a level of intelligence to handle all the material / background material required, but if anything - the most important things in my opinion are dedication and persistence.

Part of it is pattern recognition and algorithmic, but if that were all of it then they'd just teach basic stuff and throw you in the fire to gain experience...our education wouldn't be much different than PA school.

"Hypothetical-deductive reasoning" is generally what is used. You have to have a baseline intelligence to be a doc. That baseline intelligence is higher than the national average, but isn't ridiculous. If you look at nobel prize winners they usually don't have freakish genius high IQs. They DO have patience and persistence and a vision that most don't have.

IQ isn't the whole person. There are other metrics of intelligence that are equally as important.

It is similar in medicine. In medical school, you learn to think differently. The vast volumes of material essentially reprogram how you think. There is much more than raw IQ that matters. The smartest person in the world will be a crappy physician if they lack the ability to connect with their patients. It might sound cheesy to say you think differently, but I've already noticed a difference in my thought processes from my friends in other fields. I've also become much more aware of physical characteristics of people since I've started...but that is another story.

 

[jenkim]

Part of it is pattern recognition and algorithmic, but if that were all of it then they'd just teach basic stuff and throw you in the fire to gain experience...our education wouldn't be much different than PA school.

"Hypothetical-deductive reasoning" is generally what is used. You have to have a baseline intelligence to be a doc. That baseline intelligence is higher than the national average, but isn't ridiculous. If you look at nobel prize winners they usually don't have freakish genius high IQs. They DO have patience and persistence and a vision that most don't have.

IQ isn't the whole person. There are other metrics of intelligence that are equally as important.

It is similar in medicine. In medical school, you learn to think differently. The vast volumes of material essentially reprogram how you think. There is much more than raw IQ that matters. The smartest person in the world will be a crappy physician if they lack the ability to connect with their patients. It might sound cheesy to say you think differently, but I've already noticed a difference in my thought processes from my friends in other fields. I've also become much more aware of physical characteristics of people since I've started...but that is another story.

I agree with most of what you say

Buuut...if you look at nobel prize winners in physics, mathematics, chemistry etc. you better believe those people have mega freakishly high IQ's

It takes more then persistance and drive to develope breakthrough's in theoretical physics

 

[ruiner]

When I was in grade school I wasn't in gifted courses, when I was in high school I was in accelerated and then some honors courses and I did better than almost all the honors kids because I studied more than them.

My ACT score was only a 28, but I didn't study so much for it because I didn't think I would do very well on it no matter how hard I studied.

I'm really good at science and I love it. When we took a IQ/intelligence test in school my science score was the only one that was in the gifted range.

But I feel really discouraged now because my goal is to get into an MSTP school and I feel like there is no way I will get into one when I'm up against students who were valedictorians of their highschools, in all gifted courses, and have super high IQs.

I'm smart but I have to study A LOT to do well when others don't. My parents are also super discouraging because they want me to play it safe and apply for early assurance programs at a not very prestigious medical school.

Does/has anyone ever felt like this??

Thanks

Gosh I hope not, otherwise this med school thing is going to suck.

 

[anbuitachi]

it depends on who you ask... if you ask people with iq of 80, yea they'll prob say wow they are all geniuses, move up a bit and no one will say that. its like when i was in middle school, the school wasn't so good so people were like wow your a genius or wow your so smart... but once you get into better schools, there's a lot of kids like you/better so you'll no longer be called a genius.

 

[AlexB]

this will be the best advice you'll get out of this thread, if you want to be a doctor:

If your not so smart, or borderline, then simply take an easy major at an easy (but somewhat prestigious) university. +10 pts for going to one with major grade inflation, IE Brown or Princeton. Look up all teachers on ratemyprofessor.com.

There you go, easy man's way to get into med school with a 4.0. I am applying now, but wish someone would have told me this advice from the start. I followed my advisor's advice and took all the hard classes, but this is NOT what you want to do.
There you go,

 

[Danlee07]

easy major for the 4.0 if i had to do it again

intelligence + efficient hard work (good study method) = best outcome...just like with anything else.

if you run a 13+ 100 m .....you're gonna take AGES just to get to 11...but never ever will be world record..

 

[RogueUnicorn]

this will be the best advice you'll get out of this thread, if you want to be a doctor:

If your not so smart, or borderline, then simply take an easy major at an easy (but somewhat prestigious) university. +10 pts for going to one with major grade inflation, IE Brown or Princeton. Look up all teachers on ratemyprofessor.com.

There you go, easy man's way to get into med school with a 4.0. I am applying now, but wish someone would have told me this advice from the start. I followed my advisor's advice and took all the hard classes, but this is NOT what you want to do.
There you go,

fail

 

[Amrazzz]

When I was in grade school I wasn't in gifted courses, when I was in high school I was in accelerated and then some honors courses and I did better than almost all the honors kids because I studied more than them.

My ACT score was only a 28, but I didn't study so much for it because I didn't think I would do very well on it no matter how hard I studied.

I'm really good at science and I love it. When we took a IQ/intelligence test in school my science score was the only one that was in the gifted range.

But I feel really discouraged now because my goal is to get into an MSTP school and I feel like there is no way I will get into one when I'm up against students who were valedictorians of their highschools, in all gifted courses, and have super high IQs.

I'm smart but I have to study A LOT to do well when others don't. My parents are also super discouraging because they want me to play it safe and apply for early assurance programs at a not very prestigious medical school.

Does/has anyone ever felt like this??

Thanks

Nope. Its all about focus. If you are focused and you really want to be a good doctor, nothing can stop you. Don't discourage yourself, you can do anything if you put your mind to it.

Also, medical school is medical school. Apply for early assurance as a backup, I'm sure you can still apply to other medical schools even with the program.

 

[nopressure]

it helps to be a genius. but no, you don't need to be particularly intelligent to get through medschool.

being willing to work hard + life issues probably matter more for the ones who failed.

 

[mmmcdowe]

While hard work is never a bad thing, there will be people in your medical school class with brain power you simply cannot match.

Agreed. Being exceptionally intelligent makes a difference. You can still do well and be in the top echelon of your class even if you aren't the absolute smartest, but additional intelligence, especially when it comes to raw ability to absorb and mentally organize/recall information, makes things EASIER. More than just IQ, I sincerely would love a near photographic memory. The first time someone in your class shouts out an intermediate from a pathway that hadn't even been lectured on, just on the screen, from a lecture that was months ago you will start to see just how much more brain power some people have. The ultimate value of this in the long run isn't probably that great, but like I said it makes medical school easier.

 

[portlandpixie]

The cardiologist who I'm shadowing told me that it's really not about being the smartest person in your class but about your dedication and persistence. Although this is coming from someone who went to harvard for undergrad, Columbia to do his pre-med reqs, and stanford for med school...

But I mean, I believe him. Obviously you can't be a ******* but you def don't have to be a genius. I wouldn't consider myself a genius but I do fairly well in my classes because I work twice as hard as other ppl do. It's about effort and knowing your strengths and weaknesses. To make you feel better about your act score, I only got a 27. 😉

 

[SoulinNeed]

A 28 on the ACT is bad? Wow.

 

[jrou111]

It's all about perspective. I have a 160 IQ and a moderately photographic memory and I don't think I'm a "genius".

 

[sonia1177]

NO! I will be a junior next year so I can't speak for actual doctors but what I have learned is that it is literally 1% intelligence and 99% persistence and work ethic. I know a lot of smart people with very good IQ's and top SAT scores (almost 300-400 pts higher than mine) but they are not doing well because they don't study and expect everything to fall into their head (or they are too arrogant and full of themselves and feel like they don't need to and then go and bomb exams and in most classes, your grade is based ONLY on exams). Most classes involve drilling problems or reading, rewriting, etc. notes again and again until you are regurgitating the material

Others may disagree but this is how I feel. I am not a genius at all but in my Organic Class and Intro Bio and Intro Chem classes I was getting good grades and I do not consider myself a genius. When it gets tough, you just have persist and remember that these times really tell you what you are made of and how you will handle the pressure in med school. Good luck with everything

 

[Cleavername]

No. Geniuses get PhDs not MDs... being a medical doctor would be too much memorization and grunt work for their superior minds 🙂.

Success in just about ANY field is WAY more dependent on work ethic and diligence than intelligence.

I had a wise professor once who said, "Those who get A's in this class will have good jobs, those who get B's will be managing the students who get A's, and those who get C's will be the CEOs of the companies where all the A and B students work."

I DONT GET IT!!! i have never had any problem interpreting any quote by any philosophers after thinking about it for a bit, but this quote i just dont get it, what the hell.

 

[Doc Of Life]

I'm not in med school yet, but from what I've heard you definitely don't have to be a genius, but if you're not a genius or a person with a photographic memory then you do have to be reasonably smart and work hard.

According to this research, doctors *generally* have high IQs, but this chart also shows that a large portion of doctors have IQs that are below 115, which means they are less than 1 standard deviation away from the average population's IQ.

 

[Cleavername]

No. Geniuses get PhDs not MDs... being a medical doctor would be too much memorization and grunt work for their superior minds 🙂.

Success in just about ANY field is WAY more dependent on work ethic and diligence than intelligence.

I had a wise professor once who said, "Those who get A's in this class will have good jobs, those who get B's will be managing the students who get A's, and those who get C's will be the CEOs of the companies where all the A and B students work."

wait a minute, does this have to do with the idea that those A students are good at doing what the yare told and those C students will take chances and can think for themselves, thus, a much better quality which is fit for CEOs?

 

[fizzgig]

wait a minute, does this have to do with the idea that those A students are good at doing what the yare told and those C students will take chances and can think for themselves, thus, a much better quality which is fit for CEOs?

lol. i thin it's just an ironic quote that points out that with your super tough class where you're learning all this difficult science, you'd think the 'smartest' (using grades as a metric) would be top dog... but the kids making Bs and Cs may not care so much about the intricacies of the science, but go on to get their MBA and move up the corporate ladder and make bank you can't imagine. you can claim your brilliance, but they will be making ze millions.

it's that sorta humor, i think.

you may be a richrich doc at the end of all this, but the guy who made a C alongside you in general bio may well be running the whole hospital 😉

(no i don't think all people in managerial positions are idiots, if anyone is wondering...i do like the irony of the quote though.)

 

[Lokhtar]

Hey let's turn this into a circle jerk about posting your IQ scores. My IQ is 879 and I'd come up with the Theory of Everything, but I decided to into medicine because I like helping people.

 

[dancingDO14]

Hey let's turn this into a circle jerk about posting your IQ scores. My IQ is 879 and I'd come up with the Theory of Everything, but I decided to into medicine because I like helping people.

👍

 

[mcgyver]

👍

i can memorize pi to 100,000 decimals

 

[afugazzi]

It's all about perspective. I won the Putnam, solved a Millenium Prize Problem, killed a lion with my bare hands, and worked as a CIA operative all under the age of 12, but I don't think I'm a "genius".

 

[Narmerguy]

Hey let's turn this into a circle jerk about posting your IQ scores. My IQ is 879 and I'd come up with the Theory of Everything, but I decided to into medicine because I like helping people.

I think that the lesson I've learned in college is that almost always the person at the top will have to work hard. For some that takes more work than others but regardless, it will take work. I agree with many posters above in that I've met many students who are probably very intelligent that just don't have the work ethic to put in the time and do the "gritty" work. Some of them still do well but the majority wallow frustratingly in mediocrity.

 

[roseglass6370]

Short answer: No.

I have to work really, really, hard to get the A's I get in the hard sciences. It's about 90% motivation and about 10% natural intelligence/common sense, IMHO.

Most of the people that I know who are at the top of the class work harder than just about anyone I know. They might make it look easy, but truth is, they just know how to study...and they do it A LOT.

 

[roseglass6370]

Hey let's turn this into a circle jerk about posting your IQ scores. My IQ is 879 and I'd come up with the Theory of Everything, but I decided to into medicine because I like helping people.

"I was first in my class at Princeton, I have an IQ of a hundred and eighty-seven, and it's been suggested that Stephen Hawking stole his Brief History of Time...from my fourth grade paper."

(Bonus points if you can name the movie...)

 

[roseglass6370]

Legally Blonde?

👍