Code Brown

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Yeah, it's not all about the money, but what the hell.

So, assume that as a physician, you will pull in around $300,000 per year. After taxes/malpractice insurance, you take home around $210,000.

This means that you'll have a monthly draw of $17,500 (this is some major cash!)

Now here is your budget (These numbers are fairly accurate):
Lease a 2005 BMW 745i - $1000 per month
Lease a 2005 Range Rover - $1000 per month (for the spouse)
$800,000 mortgage (this is a nice pad) - (30 year @ 6%) - $4700 per month
$200,000 in student loans (20 years @ 3%) - $1100 per month
Utilities (cable, phone, electricity) - $500 per month
Groceries - $700 per month

Even after splurging on some nice cars and a big ass house (unless you live in Coastal Cali), that still leaves you with about $8500 per month (or $102,000 for the year!) to play with or to invest. :eek:

(on a side note, that $200,000 in student loans won't really be a big deal)
 

hung

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Code Brown said:
Yeah, it's not all about the money, but what the hell.

So, assume that as a physician, you will pull in around $300,000 per year. After taxes/malpractice insurance, you take home around $210,000.
300g that would be grand if u could get that with Internal Med.
 

Variance

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300Gs? thats hardly the norm for doctors...
100 - 200 is alot more realistic.
 

tacrum43

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I think $300,000 is high too. I think the average for all doctors is around $180,000. Still enough, but you're not going to have that extra $100K/yr. You should still be okay, as long as you don't want to live in California. Guess where I live? If you want a beach house, it's $4 million, easy. (I know, :eek: ) Of course you could look at it as $18,357/month with an $800,000 DOWN PAYMENT. Now I can understand why our local Anesthesiologists were complaining about making "only" $350,000/yr.
 

Psycho Doctor

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this thread is pathetic.

i'm going to practice medicine in a third world country and ride my horse to the outdoor clinic. Then i'll scavenge for my "groceries" that i'll cook on an open fire pit outside my hut.
 

tacrum43

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Psycho Doctor said:
this thread is pathetic.

i'm going to practice medicine in a third world country and ride my horse to the outdorr clinic. Then i'll scavenge for my "groceries" that i'll cook on an open fire outside my hut.
But how could you live without high-speed internet access to SDN?
 

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tacrum43 said:
But how could you live without high-speed internet access to SDN?
hmmm..you do have a good point there, :cool: i'll have to reconsider my life's plans now :eek:
 

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Code Brown said:
Yeah, it's not all about the money, but what the hell.

So, assume that as a physician, you will pull in around $300,000 per year. After taxes/malpractice insurance, you take home around $210,000.

This means that you'll have a monthly draw of $17,500 (this is some major cash!)

Now here is your budget (These numbers are fairly accurate):
Lease a 2005 BMW 745i - $1000 per month
Lease a 2005 Range Rover - $1000 per month (for the spouse)
$800,000 mortgage (this is a nice pad) - (30 year @ 6%) - $4700 per month
$200,000 in student loans (20 years @ 3%) - $1100 per month
Utilities (cable, phone, electricity) - $500 per month
Groceries - $700 per month

Even after splurging on some nice cars and a big ass house (unless you live in Coastal Cali), that still leaves you with about $8500 per month (or $102,000 for the year!) to play with or to invest. :eek:

(on a side note, that $200,000 in student loans won't really be a big deal)
I'm guessing you are a youngsta'. You are assuming no inflation and/or that costs of things will stay basically the same between now and when you complete a residency, or that your salary will inflate to match costs (notwithstanding the growth of managed care) which is an unlikelihood. But even if you are correct, if you have a big house, your utilities and maintenance costs are going to be much higher than you indicated -- especially if you live in a part of the country where heat/AC are necessary (and you will also need to pay oil/gas and water bills on top of those mentioned). Additionally, if you figure you will be in one of the highest tax brackets, and if you factor in state and local taxes, property taxes, etc. then even if the tax rates stay constant (another unlikelihood given the number of administration changes between now and then), your effective tax rate could be as high as 40%, so your take-home is going to be much much less than 210k. You also assume that you will have no kids, no unforseen health costs, no home repairs, no future college costs to start saving for, etc. (Not to mention that you are assuming a very low maintenance spouse ;) ). Thus while I think you will be able to live quite comfortably -- I wouldn't start counting up your disposable income for investments just yet. :rolleyes:
 

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Law2Doc said:
Additionally, if you figure you will be in one of the highest tax brackets, and if you factor in state and local taxes, property taxes, etc. then even if the tax rates stay constant (another unlikelihood given the number of administration changes between now and then), your effective tax rate could be as high as 40%, so your take-home is going to be much much less than 210k.

I think this is the biggest flaw with this budget. Anyone who thinks they will take home 210K of a 300K salary after taxes and malpractice insurance will be very disappointed. I know an OB-GYN who can't practice obstetrics anymore because he can't make enough to cover his insurance and still pay his bills. I'm sure he'd love the 100K extra to play with every year.
 

wendywellesley

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Now here is your budget (These numbers are fairly accurate):
Lease a 2005 BMW 745i - $1000 per month
Lease a 2005 Range Rover - $1000 per month (for the spouse)
$800,000 mortgage (this is a nice pad) - (30 year @ 6%) - $4700 per month
$200,000 in student loans (20 years @ 3%) - $1100 per month
Utilities (cable, phone, electricity) - $500 per month
Groceries - $700 per month

The sound of a hot nurse saying "Paging Dr. Wonderful, we need you in surgery STAT"- priceless
 

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wendywellesley said:
Now here is your budget (These numbers are fairly accurate):
Lease a 2005 BMW 745i - $1000 per month
Lease a 2005 Range Rover - $1000 per month (for the spouse)
$800,000 mortgage (this is a nice pad) - (30 year @ 6%) - $4700 per month
$200,000 in student loans (20 years @ 3%) - $1100 per month
Utilities (cable, phone, electricity) - $500 per month
Groceries - $700 per month

The sound of a hot nurse saying "Paging Dr. Wonderful, we need you in surgery STAT"- priceless
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbup:
 

palminator2003

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Law2Doc said:
I'm guessing you are a youngsta'. You are assuming no inflation and/or that costs of things will stay basically the same between now and when you complete a residency, or that your salary will inflate to match costs (notwithstanding the growth of managed care) which is an unlikelihood. But even if you are correct, if you have a big house, your utilities and maintenance costs are going to be much higher than you indicated -- especially if you live in a part of the country where heat/AC are necessary (and you will also need to pay oil/gas and water bills on top of those mentioned). Additionally, if you figure you will be in one of the highest tax brackets, and if you factor in state and local taxes, property taxes, etc. then even if the tax rates stay constant (another unlikelihood given the number of administration changes between now and then), your effective tax rate could be as high as 40%, so your take-home is going to be much much less than 210k. You also assume that you will have no kids, no unforseen health costs, no home repairs, no future college costs to start saving for, etc. (Not to mention that you are assuming a very low maintenance spouse ;) ). Thus while I think you will be able to live quite comfortably -- I wouldn't start counting up your disposable income for investments just yet. :rolleyes:
While this is true, but you also get a few deductions as well. You can write off your car as an expense. You can deduct your mortgage from your taxes. In fact, you probably want to get a 2nd home so you can deduct that as well. If you have a credit card, you can probably write off more than a few dinners (or have the drug reps pay for them ;)). As for your spouse, choose...choose wisely :laugh: :love: :love:
 

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palminator2003 said:
While this is true, but you also get a few deductions as well. You can write off your car as an expense. You can deduct your mortgage from your taxes. In fact, you probably want to get a 2nd home so you can deduct that as well. If you have a credit card, you can probably write off more than a few dinners (or have the drug reps pay for them ;)). As for your spouse, choose...choose wisely :laugh: :love: :love:
The days of deducting all the cost of a luxury car as a business expense are pretty much over -- you can probably deduct part of this cost if the vehicle is used primarilly for and by the business and your accountant is very aggressive, but if it's your personal use car probably not. And you can only deduct interest on the mortgage(s), not the mortgage itself...

But certainly the taxes, insurance bite and unforseen expenses are the big things the OP didn't do a good job of factoring into his original formula. I will stand by my original position -- you will be comfortable but you ain't going to have 100k of disposable investment income by any stretch of the imagination...
 
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Law2Doc said:
The days of deducting all the cost of a luxury car as a business expense are pretty much over -- you can probably deduct part of this cost if the vehicle is used primarilly for and by the business and your accountant is very aggressive, but if it's your personal use car probably not. And you can only deduct interest on the mortgage(s), not the mortgage itself...

But certainly the taxes, insurance bite and unforseen expenses are the big things the OP didn't do a good job of factoring into his original formula. I will stand by my original position -- you will be comfortable but you ain't going to have 100k of disposable investment income by any stretch of the imagination...
I actually did factor all of those things into the equation (more or less). Remember, these were rough estimates. The utilities, while increasing, won't be that much higher than that for a normal house. The water/electricity does change, but the phone/cable/internet (for access to SDN!) etc will remain the same.

As for the tax issue, it was based on the following calculation:

$300,000
-$38,000 malpractice (average amount in 2003-2004 I believe)
-$50,000 deduction for mortgage payments from taxes
-$20,000 normal deduction and deductions you can work on with your accountant (business use of the home alone will probably be $10K alone, so this would actually skyrocket)

This leaves you with about $190,000 in taxable income. The first $40K is at 15%, etc. You don't enter the 39% bracket until you've made over $300K in taxable income. Plugging all of these numbers into any generic tax program that has all of the tables included will show a tax of $44,685 (from the online version of TurboTax) on $190,000. This means that my $210,000 was conservative. It should have been $215K ;) . So before you start calling people "youngsta'", get your facts straight yourself (notice, I did say that I did work out the numbers before hand). As for my background, I'm a 30 year old marketing analyst with an economics background (and an economics degree) who has been putting together sales forecasts (including EBIT, SG&A, depreciation, etc. - working directly with the controller for budget constraints) for the past 4 years for a large aerospace company. I do know what I'm talking about. I don't want this to be a flame war, so no offense is or was meant by my comments. I know that people often spout off before they get the facts straight, but in this case, these are the facts. True, I could have added $1000 per month for unforseen contingencies, but the numbers were accurate enough.

I was just trying to help ease the stress around here ;) Basically, for those of us lucky enough to get into medical school and willing to put in the time to go through everything, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Even with your student loans, you'll live very very comfortably and will never be without (financially)!
 

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Code Brown said:
Yeah, it's not all about the money, but what the hell.

So, assume that as a physician, you will pull in around $300,000 per year. After taxes/malpractice insurance, you take home around $210,000.

This means that you'll have a monthly draw of $17,500 (this is some major cash!)

Now here is your budget (These numbers are fairly accurate):
Lease a 2005 BMW 745i - $1000 per month
Lease a 2005 Range Rover - $1000 per month (for the spouse)
$800,000 mortgage (this is a nice pad) - (30 year @ 6%) - $4700 per month
$200,000 in student loans (20 years @ 3%) - $1100 per month
Utilities (cable, phone, electricity) - $500 per month
Groceries - $700 per month

Even after splurging on some nice cars and a big ass house (unless you live in Coastal Cali), that still leaves you with about $8500 per month (or $102,000 for the year!) to play with or to invest. :eek:

(on a side note, that $200,000 in student loans won't really be a big deal)
Don't lease, buy and where's my lexus?
 

Law2Doc

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Code Brown said:
I actually did factor all of those things into the equation (more or less). Remember, these were rough estimates. The utilities, while increasing, won't be that much higher than that for a normal house. The water/electricity does change, but the phone/cable/internet (for access to SDN!) etc will remain the same.

As for the tax issue, it was based on the following calculation:

$300,000
-$38,000 malpractice (average amount in 2003-2004 I believe)
-$50,000 deduction for mortgage payments from taxes
-$20,000 normal deduction and deductions you can work on with your accountant (business use of the home alone will probably be $10K alone, so this would actually skyrocket)

This leaves you with about $190,000 in taxable income. The first $40K is at 15%, etc. You don't enter the 39% bracket until you've made over $300K in taxable income. Plugging all of these numbers into any generic tax program that has all of the tables included will show a tax of $44,685 (from the online version of TurboTax) on $190,000. This means that my $210,000 was conservative. It should have been $215K ;) . So before you start calling people "youngsta'", get your facts straight yourself (notice, I did say that I did work out the numbers before hand). As for my background, I'm a 30 year old marketing analyst with an economics background (and an economics degree) who has been putting together sales forecasts (including EBIT, SG&A, depreciation, etc. - working directly with the controller for budget constraints) for the past 4 years for a large aerospace company. I do know what I'm talking about. I don't want this to be a flame war, so no offense is or was meant by my comments. I know that people often spout off before they get the facts straight, but in this case, these are the facts. True, I could have added $1000 per month for unforseen contingencies, but the numbers were accurate enough.

I was just trying to help ease the stress around here ;) Basically, for those of us lucky enough to get into medical school and willing to put in the time to go through everything, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Even with your student loans, you'll live very very comfortably and will never be without (financially)!
I too am not trying to start a flame war and agree that you could live quite comfortably at that income level -- But that was not your original point -- I am just suggesting that your perceived amount available for investment is highly unlikely. I note the following: Perhaps use of the term youngsta' was uncalled for - I apologize (but at 30, you are still a youngsta' to me). Again, you can only deduct the interest on the mortgage payments, not the principal (not sure if you are doing this but you won't be allowed to only pay interest and never any principal so the deduction will be considerably less than your mortgage payment)... And adding the state, local, city and various excise and property taxes will potentially get you up to a higher effective tax rate than the federal tax amount you are figuring, depending somewhat on where you live. Next, I continue to believe that you are gravely underestimating the costs incident to home ownership and upkeep. Finally, are you contemplating practicing medicine out of your house? If not, you will probably have trouble legally deducting ANY portion of your home as a business expense (FYI I have direct experience working on legal cases involving this, and using part of your house as a "study" no longer passes IRS muster). But good luck! :rolleyes:
 

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You're living in a fantasy world.

The top Federal tax bracket is 35%. Depending upon how successful you are, you could pay between 28% and 35%. SO - about one third's gone immediately. See page 76 of http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040.pdf.

Add another 7.65% for Medicare/whatever.
So - almost 40% is already gone.

Here in Virginia, the top State tax bracket is 5.75%.

If you consider that in addition to the 7.65% you forked over for Medicare tax, you also paid for the hidden/concealed 7.65% Federal payroll tax (which you pay anyway if you're self-employed. on Schedule SE) - you'll pay over half of your income in taxes to the federal and state government.

That's right - over half!

Then - you have to pay property tax (on your house).
Then - you have to pay car tax - much much more for a Lex than a VW bug.

Then you pay for your loans.

On whatever's left - you pay local sales tax.

So - start thinking "I GET TO TAKE HOME LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT I EARN".

And join the Republican Party as soon as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prior to 1980, the top Federal tax rate was 77%. THAT'S RIGHT - 77%. Thank God for Ronald Reagan!!!!!!!
 

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Mothra said:
You're living in a fantasy world.

The top Federal tax bracket is 35%. Depending upon how successful you are, you could pay between 28% and 35%. SO - about one third's gone immediately. See page 76 of http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040.pdf.

Add another 7.65% for Medicare/whatever.
So - almost 40% is already gone.

Here in Virginia, the top State tax bracket is 5.75%.

If you consider that in addition to the 7.65% you forked over for Medicare tax, you also paid for the hidden/concealed 7.65% Federal payroll tax (which you pay anyway if you're self-employed. on Schedule SE) - you'll pay over half of your income in taxes to the federal and state government.

That's right - over half!

Then - you have to pay property tax (on your house).
Then - you have to pay car tax - much much more for a Lex than a VW bug.

Then you pay for your loans.

On whatever's left - you pay local sales tax.

So - start thinking "I GET TO TAKE HOME LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT I EARN".

And join the Republican Party as soon as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prior to 1980, the top Federal tax rate was 77%. THAT'S RIGHT - 77%. Thank God for Ronald Reagan!!!!!!!
Exactly -- that's what I'm saying :cool:
 

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Ain't it a bit peurile to be debating future pecuniary status as a mode of cheering up applicants stuck in a nebula of self-doubt? I just go to http://www.i8u.org whenever I'm down on this process.

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Psycho Doctor

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wow you guys are all debating inflation and compounded interest; i took this thread as a total joke :laugh:
 

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Code Brown said:
I actually did factor all of those things into the equation (more or less). Remember, these were rough estimates. The utilities, while increasing, won't be that much higher than that for a normal house. The water/electricity does change, but the phone/cable/internet (for access to SDN!) etc will remain the same.

As for the tax issue, it was based on the following calculation:

$300,000
-$38,000 malpractice (average amount in 2003-2004 I believe)
-$50,000 deduction for mortgage payments from taxes
-$20,000 normal deduction and deductions you can work on with your accountant (business use of the home alone will probably be $10K alone, so this would actually skyrocket)

This leaves you with about $190,000 in taxable income. The first $40K is at 15%, etc. You don't enter the 39% bracket until you've made over $300K in taxable income. Plugging all of these numbers into any generic tax program that has all of the tables included will show a tax of $44,685 (from the online version of TurboTax) on $190,000. This means that my $210,000 was conservative. It should have been $215K ;) . So before you start calling people "youngsta'", get your facts straight yourself (notice, I did say that I did work out the numbers before hand). As for my background, I'm a 30 year old marketing analyst with an economics background (and an economics degree) who has been putting together sales forecasts (including EBIT, SG&A, depreciation, etc. - working directly with the controller for budget constraints) for the past 4 years for a large aerospace company. I do know what I'm talking about. I don't want this to be a flame war, so no offense is or was meant by my comments. I know that people often spout off before they get the facts straight, but in this case, these are the facts. True, I could have added $1000 per month for unforseen contingencies, but the numbers were accurate enough.

I was just trying to help ease the stress around here ;) Basically, for those of us lucky enough to get into medical school and willing to put in the time to go through everything, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Even with your student loans, you'll live very very comfortably and will never be without (financially)!
This is ridiculous.

If you think you'll get $50K in deductions from interest on your mortgage - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That equates to a house in the neighborhood of $1.3 million.

But the joke's on you - because - you'll never be permitted to deduct that much in interest. There is a little known tax called the Alternative Minimum Tax - that causes all of your itemized deductions to disappear when you get much over $150K (I think). You need to get very, very familiar with Form 6251. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f6251.pdf

Plus - business use of your home? You're going to see patients in your home? Well - then your local county will have a problem with that. If they don't start requiring you to collect sales tax, and buy business licenses/etc., they might not permit you to do that. If you're not going to see patients in your home, then this will be the flag that starts the IRS audits. You'll pay $thousands to tax attorneys, and $thousands to the IRS in penalties and interest to find out that "business use of a home" isn't a good idea.

People - you can pay piles of money to accountant and tax attorneys - to get really, really complicated, and then get audited. One way or the other - YOU PAY.

Boy, do you people have a lot to learn.
 

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Psycho Doctor said:
wow you guys are all debating inflation and compounded interest; i took this thread as a total joke :laugh:
Well, unlike the nebulous religious debate thread you started, there is probably a single correct answer to this one... :laugh:
 

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Excatly. Thanks for saying this


Psycho Doctor said:
this thread is pathetic.

i'm going to practice medicine in a third world country and ride my horse to the outdoor clinic. Then i'll scavenge for my "groceries" that i'll cook on an open fire pit outside my hut.
 

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Law2Doc said:
Well, unlike the nebulous religious debate thread you started, there is probably a single correct answer to this one... :laugh:
i can't help that it turned into a religious debate, or rather a evolution vs creation debate; it started as a sincere question about med schools and I was not the one to turn it around :confused:
 

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Psycho Doctor said:
i can't help that it turned into a religious debate, or rather a evolution vs creation debate; it started as a sincere question about med schools and I was not the one to turn it around :confused:
I was just kidding with you. :D
 

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Mothra said:
People - you can pay piles of money to accountant and tax attorneys - to get really, really complicated, and then get audited. One way or the other - YOU PAY.
Just give me one tax to cover everything. I'll write my one check and then I'll be happy. :laugh:
 

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lakersfan said:
I concur.
Its the opposite. The original poster started this thread with some slightly bogus info in order to provoke somebody to respond (which he KNEW would happen) who would release COMPLETELY false information (pointing to the fact that doctors make absolutely NO money) and then, people who didnt get in would be able to say, hey, doctors make no money anyway.
 

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Ross434 said:
Its the opposite. The original poster started this thread with some slightly bogus info in order to provoke somebody to respond (which he KNEW would happen) who would release COMPLETELY false information (pointing to the fact that doctors make absolutely NO money) and then, people who didnt get in would be able to say, hey, doctors make no money anyway.
I don't think anyone here said doctors make no money -- just that banking on 100k of investment income is not going to happen. :confused:
 

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I don't really care how much I earn/pay tax/actually take home. the only fancy item i've ever wanted was a nice viper, and in 10 years a first gen gts will only be about 40k :laugh: hell, i'll bet that when i become a doctor i'll still be mowing my own lawn.
 

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I have to concur with code brown on his estimate. It's tough to be a GP raking in 300K but it's doable if you willing to sacrafice time. Being a doc is looking better and better :thumbup: :thumbup:
 

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Im not going to sell my soul for money. Ever hear of social responsibility? This thread shows the true form of why many chose medicine, $, pathetic. Money isnt everything, money is hardly anything, other people are. Learn some passion, learn some care, learn some respect, else you will always be pathetic doctors who only care about their financial wellbeing.

Join the Socialists party as fast as you can!!!!!!! Or move to Canada. Or France. Hey would you look at that, for some reason those two countries have a higher standard of living and higher life expectancy then the money grabbing U S of A, I wonder why.

Mothra said:
You're living in a fantasy world.
...
And join the Republican Party as soon as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prior to 1980, the top Federal tax rate was 77%. THAT'S RIGHT - 77%. Thank God for Ronald Reagan!!!!!!!
 

abraxas20

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Well. whatever happens with my income, I cannot and will not join the republican party. :smuggrin:
 

so_nice

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Mothra said:
You're living in a fantasy world.

The top Federal tax bracket is 35%. Depending upon how successful you are, you could pay between 28% and 35%. SO - about one third's gone immediately. See page 76 of http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040.pdf.

Add another 7.65% for Medicare/whatever.
So - almost 40% is already gone.

Here in Virginia, the top State tax bracket is 5.75%.

If you consider that in addition to the 7.65% you forked over for Medicare tax, you also paid for the hidden/concealed 7.65% Federal payroll tax (which you pay anyway if you're self-employed. on Schedule SE) - you'll pay over half of your income in taxes to the federal and state government.

That's right - over half!

Then - you have to pay property tax (on your house).
Then - you have to pay car tax - much much more for a Lex than a VW bug.

Then you pay for your loans.

On whatever's left - you pay local sales tax.

So - start thinking "I GET TO TAKE HOME LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT I EARN".

And join the Republican Party as soon as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prior to 1980, the top Federal tax rate was 77%. THAT'S RIGHT - 77%. Thank God for Ronald Reagan!!!!!!!

You took the words out of my mouth...

Until you experience the penalties of a making 80K+ per year (or where ever the tax rate begins to steep high), you do not really believe that you earn less than half of what you make.
 

Without Wax

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Code Brown said:
Yeah, it's not all about the money, but what the hell.

So, assume that as a physician, you will pull in around $300,000 per year. After taxes/malpractice insurance, you take home around $210,000.

This means that you'll have a monthly draw of $17,500 (this is some major cash!)

Now here is your budget (These numbers are fairly accurate):
Lease a 2005 BMW 745i - $1000 per month
Lease a 2005 Range Rover - $1000 per month (for the spouse)
$800,000 mortgage (this is a nice pad) - (30 year @ 6%) - $4700 per month
$200,000 in student loans (20 years @ 3%) - $1100 per month
Utilities (cable, phone, electricity) - $500 per month
Groceries - $700 per month

Even after splurging on some nice cars and a big ass house (unless you live in Coastal Cali), that still leaves you with about $8500 per month (or $102,000 for the year!) to play with or to invest. :eek:

(on a side note, that $200,000 in student loans won't really be a big deal)
I also think $300,000 is too high. More likely $200,000.
And you also have unrealistic budget. more than 50% of doctors divorce, so you got to pay alimony. (Half of you budget right there, for the REST OF YOUR CAREER)

then you will more likely spend a lot of money ($30,000-50,000) per year for you kids' education because you will send them to private preschool, elementary.....

so what I am saying is, life won't be as rosy
 

nabeel76

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I think this is the biggest flaw with this budget. Anyone who thinks they will take home 210K of a 300K salary after taxes and malpractice insurance will be very disappointed. I know an OB-GYN who can't practice obstetrics anymore because he can't make enough to cover his insurance and still pay his bills. I'm sure he'd love the 100K extra to play with every year.
I have no idea what kind of doctors you guys are trying to be, but there are 3 doctors in my family all in the Washington DC area and they all pull in more than 300K a year take home. As a matter of fact my uncle pulls in more than 3 times this! Granted they have a **** load of experience under there belt, I think if you have a true desire or care to make more than 300K a year you can easily attain this by specializing.
 

trinitrotoluene

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Join the Republican Party as soon as you can!
The GOP is also gutting funding for Medicaid and Social Security that reduces that amount of money old people and the poor can spend on health-care. These people then show up in the emergency room really sick, and hospitals have to treat them for free. Private insurance rates then go up, fewer people get health care, and doctors get less money. The only time the GOP increased spending on health-care, it was through massive barrowing (something the GOP loves to do) that creates a huge birth tax on the young and unborn. Massive barrowing is driven by the huge tax cuts they enact and government spending they refuse to eliminate and often increase. This weakens the US dollar deflating the economy. When people can't find work (like right now), there is less money to spend on health-care.

Anyway you slice it, doctors make less money under GOP rule.

And under the GOP, you will have to refuse to treat more patients.
 
OP
Code Brown

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nabeel76 said:
I have no idea what kind of doctors you guys are trying to be, but there are 3 doctors in my family all in the Washington DC area and they all pull in more than 300K a year take home. As a matter of fact my uncle pulls in more than 3 times this! Granted they have a **** load of experience under there belt, I think if you have a true desire or care to make more than 300K a year you can easily attain this by specializing.
Yes, finally a sense of reason. I personally know four doctors myself and they make the following: Family Practice $350K, ENT $650, Plastics $800K, Pain Management $950K. My friends aunt is in Derm and pulling in $600K. Granted, these are in California so this could be part of the reason, but I don't think there is that much difference. Have a look at some of the head-hunting firms that handle physicians, you'll crap your pants at the money being tossed around.

As for the taxman, it's not as bad as you make it out to be. Yes, the top bracket is 35% (or whatever it will be in 10 years when we are making it), but keep in mind that the social security addition maxes out at somewhere arround $85K. If you make more, you don't pay more than someone making $85K so you can't add the 7.5% (or whatever it is). As for having tax deductions? Why do you think conventions are always in places like Hawaii or Bermuda? They call they "deductable vacations" for a reason.

As for the alimony, you got me on this one.

Expensive education? That's both an investment and a luxury that I will love to be able to pay for.
 

superdevil

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Code Brown said:
Yeah, it's not all about the money, but what the hell.
a whimsical thread is started on SDN today at 5:14AM. meant purely for sport and fun...

and then, today at 3:16PM, this is posted...
Origianlly Posted by gbiz
This thread shows the true form of why many chose medicine, $, pathetic. Money isnt everything, money is hardly anything, other people are. Learn some passion, learn some care, learn some respect, else you will always be pathetic doctors who only care about their financial wellbeing.
no more silly fantasies, children, feel shame. and the obligatory "you total strangers whom i don't know from a hole in the ground will be bad doctors" line is also an SDN classic.

this thread gets SD's 3 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: out of 5. :p
 

Mothra

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trinitrotoluene said:
The GOP is also gutting funding for Medicaid and Social Security that reduces that amount of money old people and the poor can spend on health-care. These people then show up in the emergency room really sick, and hospitals have to treat them for free. Private insurance rates then go up, fewer people get health care, and doctors get less money. The only time the GOP increased spending on health-care, it was through massive barrowing (something the GOP loves to do) that creates a huge birth tax on the young and unborn. Massive barrowing is driven by the huge tax cuts they enact and government spending they refuse to eliminate and often increase. This weakens the US dollar deflating the economy. When people can't find work (like right now), there is less money to spend on health-care.

Anyway you slice it, doctors make less money under GOP rule.

And under the GOP, you will have to refuse to treat more patients.
Oh please. Howard Doom (Dean) is an idiot. Only he would say something as completely false as this. "The GOP is also gutting funding for Medicaid and Social Security that reduces that amount of money old people and the poor can spend on health-care"????? Oh for pity's sake... the indigent don't pay anything for Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. YOU are going to pay for it. YOU YOU YOU. PAY PAY PAY. Get used to it! That's how our flavor of socialism is funded. The top 50% of all wage earners pay 96% of all taxes. YOU are the EVIL ones now. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Welcome to the club!

The GOP guts nothing. Dems gut nothing. Sure, there's a lot of rhetoric. But it doesn't matter who's in power. They're going to ratchet costs down because they can. And they'll ratchet them down until just before no one will treat the indigent. "Free" healthcare isn't free after all, is it? This is called economics. It's the science of the behavior of consumers and producers. Go learn the SCIENCE. Don't throw out the slogans and the irrational rants of demagogues (of any flavor). Take a microeconomics course from someone that isn't wrapped up in the politics.

For example: who in the early to mid 1990's used ("evil!") supply-side economics to reduce the cost of health care?

Was it -
(a) Newt Gingrich
(b) Osama Bin Laden
(c) Hunter Thompson
(d) None of the above

(Jeopardy theme music)

OK - time's up! The answer is..... D: NONE OF THE ABOVE. Well, who was it then, Mr. Trubek? It was Hill and Bill! Their threats to socialize medicine were thwarted, thankfully, so they used supply-side economics instead. They increased the supply of healthcare by pushing the system toward the HMO model. (Increasing the supply causes the price of healthcare to go down for all levels of demand.) It was all the rage in the mid 90's. And guess where the reductions came from? Physicians' income, mostly. That's right. And they also turned over a lot of the decision-making to the MBA dweebs running the HMOs. (Remember that when Hillary runs.)

My point is - don't get into medicine to be wealthy. Between the government dweebs and the MBAs at the HMOs, your income potential will never be much more than it is today. You have to want to be a physician these days - more than to make a lot of money. If your priorities are in order, you'll be a better physician, and maybe someday you'll have some interesting cash. You'll be comfortable - but not really rich. And (did I say this already?) be prepared to PAY.
 

Ross434

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Mothra said:
Oh please. Howard Doom (Dean) is an idiot. Only he would say something as completely false as this. "The GOP is also gutting funding for Medicaid and Social Security that reduces that amount of money old people and the poor can spend on health-care"????? Oh for pity's sake... the indigent don't pay anything for Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. YOU are going to pay for it. YOU YOU YOU. PAY PAY PAY. Get used to it! That's how our flavor of socialism is funded. The top 50% of all wage earners pay 96% of all taxes. YOU are the EVIL ones now. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Welcome to the club!

The GOP guts nothing. Dems gut nothing. Sure, there's a lot of rhetoric. But it doesn't matter who's in power. They're going to ratchet costs down because they can. And they'll ratchet them down until just before no one will treat the indigent. "Free" healthcare isn't free after all, is it? This is called economics. It's the science of the behavior of consumers and producers. Go learn the SCIENCE. Don't throw out the slogans and the irrational rants of demagogues (of any flavor). Take a microeconomics course from someone that isn't wrapped up in the politics.

For example: who in the early to mid 1990's used ("evil!") supply-side economics to reduce the cost of health care?

Was it -
(a) Newt Gingrich
(b) Osama Bin Laden
(c) Hunter Thompson
(d) None of the above

(Jeopardy theme music)

OK - time's up! The answer is..... D: NONE OF THE ABOVE. Well, who was it then, Mr. Trubek? It was Hill and Bill! Their threats to socialize medicine were thwarted, thankfully, so they used supply-side economics instead. They increased the supply of healthcare by pushing the system toward the HMO model. (Increasing the supply causes the price of healthcare to go down for all levels of demand.) It was all the rage in the mid 90's. And guess where the reductions came from? Physicians' income, mostly. That's right. And they also turned over a lot of the decision-making to the MBA dweebs running the HMOs. (Remember that when Hillary runs.)

My point is - don't get into medicine to be wealthy. Between the government dweebs and the MBAs at the HMOs, your income potential will never be much more than it is today. You have to want to be a physician these days - more than to make a lot of money. If your priorities are in order, you'll be a better physician, and maybe someday you'll have some interesting cash. You'll be comfortable - but not really rich. And (did I say this already?) be prepared to PAY.
Im sick and tired of people boo-hooing the future of medicine and people's future earning potential. For the record, salaries of almost ALL specialties have been increasing FASTER than inflation. And i know of several jobs offering more than a million. You know, i guess 300,000 is comfortable... but.. no. you really dont have that much money after all.
 

trinitrotoluene

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Mothra said:
Oh please. Only Howard Dean would say something as completely false as this.
Of all the assumptions you make, the only one you get right is that I support Dean.

Mothra said:
"The GOP is also gutting funding for Medicaid and Social Security that reduces that amount of money old people and the poor can spend on health-care"? The indigent don't pay anything for Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. You are going to pay for it. That's how our flavor of socialism is funded.
We either pay for it in the doctor's offices through Medcaid or in the emergency room when people ar about to die. Naturally, its better for the patient and cheaper for taxpayers to deliver care in the doctor's office.

Mothra said:
The top 50% of all wage earners pay 96% of all taxes.
Of income taxes and not all personal taxes. If you include payroll taxes and exclude the taxes that the rich simply elect to not pay, the US actually has a flat taxation syatem. If you include the subsidities companies get from the government, we also have a rather flat "entitlement scheme".

Mothra said:
[The Clintons] used supply-side economics [to change healthcare]. They increased the supply of healthcare by pushing the system toward the HMO model. It was all the rage in the mid 90's. And guess where the reductions came from? Physicians' income, mostly. That's right. And they also turned over a lot of the decision-making to the MBA dweebs running the HMOs.
The market gave rise to HMOs. Bill was not able to change the health-care system. Anyway, how do HMOs increase the supply of health-care?

Mothra said:
My point is - don't get into medicine to be wealthy.
That is the only thing you said that makes sense.

BTW Since you are new to SDN, I want to tell you that you should be a little more courtious when you post.
 

trinitrotoluene

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There is one thing doctors of all political stripes (conseravtive, moderate, liberal, independent, and disinterested) need to do: keep government from reducing rembursments to doctors. Doctors deserve a fair salery for a fair day's work, and the pay should be consumate with skill level.
 

JimmyMallo

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This thread has started to get a little crazy. Lest we not forget that most of the poeple we know live pretty well on less than 100k for the whole family! We may not be rich but unless your a dumba$$ you should be able to live a very nice life. As for the 50% divorce rate, at that salary level you would think one would have a good lawyer on retainer (can anyone say prenup) :cool: As for taxes, get a good accountant and live on whats left, it will be plenty. The fact we are debating the dollars when those of us that make it through will all be financially secure is amusing. :laugh:
 

tacrum43

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Mothra said:
Oh please. Howard Doom (Dean) is an idiot. Only he would say something as completely false as this. "The GOP is also gutting funding for Medicaid and Social Security that reduces that amount of money old people and the poor can spend on health-care"????? Oh for pity's sake... the indigent don't pay anything for Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. YOU are going to pay for it. YOU YOU YOU. PAY PAY PAY. Get used to it! That's how our flavor of socialism is funded. The top 50% of all wage earners pay 96% of all taxes. YOU are the EVIL ones now. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Welcome to the club!
Name calling is stupid and it only encourages division among the political parties and the country. You know, I used to be conservative but then I got over myself and my money and realized that most moderates and liberals (yes, even socialists :scared: ) have people's best interests in mind (yes, I believe that other people, even strangers, are more important than my disposable income).

Taxes are a good and necessary thing when they are used effectively (for example, not for an unnecessary war or "Star Wars") and are applied in equitable way. Have you looked at the exchange rate on the dollar lately? The U.S. is part of a larger world, and if we keep borrowing and spending recklessly without anyway to pay for it, we're going to go bankrupt. Besides the Republican party doesn't stand for fiscal responsibility anymore (if it ever did, again refer to the "Star Wars" program by Reagan = $1 TRILLION dollars and it never worked), they stand for evangelical Christian values that are unconstitutional intermixed with tax breaks for the rich. I strongly advise people not to join it (I'm still a member though, I should probably change that.)

People making $20,000 /yr can't afford to pay a lot of taxes, but they are citizens in our society, so those of us who make more pay more. We still get more money for our hard work (that's why it's not communism), but we are also the bigger person and help others. If we could nationalize healthcare (I still find it hard to comprehend that people have a right to a lawyer but not a doctor) it would be the biggest social progress we've made since the civil rights movement.

Taxes are only money, and this is people's lives we are talking about. How can you be so indifferent?