Hello I am a predent that will be applying to dental school in June but I am concerned about my interest in art. I undoubtedly find many aspects of dentistry fascinating but I never really drew for fun as a child because it just wasn't something that personally interested me but I wasn't against it at the same time. I think I would derive great pleasure from making someone have a beautiful smile with a meaningful goal at the end but drawing something for fun didn't seem to have a purpose for me. I always considered myself somewhat bad at art but I also never put very much effort into it at all because I didn't find meaning behind it. So I would LOVE some honest opinions from practicing dentists. If I haven't loved art or drawling throughout my life will I find dentistry boring or get sick of it after a while? I find my self having second thoughts on starting this next chapter of my life on a weekly basis but most of them boil down to this topic? Honest opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Do you need to love art and have loved it all your life to enjoy dentistry?
- Thread starter monkeykey
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deleted480308
a love of art is irrelevant
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Artsy Fartsy talent is one very small aspect of dentistry!
I know artistic dentists that can paint a knockoff of Monet, but can't make a #8 crown look lifelike.
I also know a lot of dentists can't draw a flower, but are killing it in cosmetic dentistry.
I know artistic dentists that can paint a knockoff of Monet, but can't make a #8 crown look lifelike.
I also know a lot of dentists can't draw a flower, but are killing it in cosmetic dentistry.
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I can't even draw a stick figure.
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I couldn't tell a Picasso from a Monet
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schmoob
Both. You become so familiar with every aspect of the tooth anatomy that you can visualize them during the procedure. When you look at what you're doing, you can critique your work "my mesioincisal angle is too obtuse," "the emergence profile is off," "the incisal edge is too bulky" etc. Before you know it, you've rebuilt a tooth freehand with composite.
This is just one aspect of dentistry, plenty of others that dont require an aritsts eye.
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I'm terrible at art/drawing and I can freehand a tooth that looks like a tooth. As @schmoob said, you know when something looks off with experience. Symmetry is the most important, but also managing expectations when it comes to esthetics. Convincing a patient that your work looks good is as important, if not more important than the actual esthetics.
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In private practice a great deal will depend on the quality of your lab and ceramist. A master ceramist will make even the least average clinician appear to be spectacular. This of course will not apply when doing freehand composite. Most graduates can do acceptable work out of school, as operative is stressed in D school.
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Exactly. Of course with all the emphasis on reducing overhead and using overseas labs, CAD CAM, etc. etc. .... these awesome ceramists will be a thing of the past. Having practiced in an environment where most if not all crowns, veneers, bridges were "artistically" fabricated by an expert, seasoned ceramist .... most of these cerec or cad cam crowns look "average" to my orthodontist eyes. These generic restorations may work fine, but in my view they are lacking that "artistic" quality. I also question their margins, but then again .... I came from PFMs with thin, polished, burnished metal margins on the posterior restorations.
One of my past ortho attendings use to use the phrase that a mouth is a beautiful portrait. The lips are the frame and the teeth are the portrait. It all has to match and work. One of the cool things about ortho is that I get to work on this portrait for 6-24 months. Improving it at every appointment.
So at least having some sense of artistic ability is an advantage for a dentist. Most people coming to see you for cosmetic reasons do not care about the function as much as how the final product looks. And it better look good.
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There will always be master ceramists who will work for high end FFS dental practices. I agree that right now milled restorations do not look that great, but I believe as the technology improves, so will these restorations. In the meantime, dentistry is business as usual, you get what you pay for.
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The fact is that patients do not care for the artistic look of a crown unless its in the anterior. In the posterior? Noone can tell the difference.
That being said, because dentistry is heading towards the bottom of the barrel in terms of pricing, dentists are cutting their costs and sending their crowns to overseas or huge mill production facilities where costs are cheap. Costs are cheap which basically means the "artistic" quality put into crowns are quite frankly terrible. I still use a local lab and their work is good, but theres no way I can afford a seasoned "ceramist" on PPO fees.
Speaking with my lab technician- alot of labs have gone out of business because dentists are searching for "cheaper" and "cheaper" labs and have resorted to cutting costs through lab and supplies. I use local because I can still communicate and jump into their lab if I need to clarify margins. Plus it feels good to support a local business.
That being said, because dentistry is heading towards the bottom of the barrel in terms of pricing, dentists are cutting their costs and sending their crowns to overseas or huge mill production facilities where costs are cheap. Costs are cheap which basically means the "artistic" quality put into crowns are quite frankly terrible. I still use a local lab and their work is good, but theres no way I can afford a seasoned "ceramist" on PPO fees.
Speaking with my lab technician- alot of labs have gone out of business because dentists are searching for "cheaper" and "cheaper" labs and have resorted to cutting costs through lab and supplies. I use local because I can still communicate and jump into their lab if I need to clarify margins. Plus it feels good to support a local business.
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You're a mechanic of sorts as a dentist.
There was a time when artistic flair may have been more important, but its doubtful you'll have time for all that as things stand. You'll do volume in an attempt to make ends meet at declining reimbursement rates, and volume doesn't mesh well with art.
Dental technicians would benefit from being artistic mind you.
There was a time when artistic flair may have been more important, but its doubtful you'll have time for all that as things stand. You'll do volume in an attempt to make ends meet at declining reimbursement rates, and volume doesn't mesh well with art.
Dental technicians would benefit from being artistic mind you.
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Yep, cerec crowns are functional and average looking, but at ppo fees, you can't afford to have pristine esthetics. I've had maybe 8-10 out of 2500 cerec crowns complain. They were mostly 45-65 y/o females with nothing better to do but complain about the lack of characterization of a cad/cam tooth. Solution? Send the scans out to a lab that will do all the staining and characterization. Thankfully, those picky patients don't come back and I am out an additional 100 dollars for a lab crown (+ time to recement a new one) just to get them out of my office.
It's hard to tell a patient upfront that they can't be cheap and picky at the same time, but they'll just jump to another office.
Do you feel like dentistry is dying as a career overtime and becoming too saturated?
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I think incomes will continue to fall and quality opportunities will continue to become more scarce.
There is no limit on grad plus loans and there is no requirement for residency within dentistry. Because of this, I see no reason for the strong trend toward supply that outstrips demand to change.
That says nothing of current debt levels, eventual mid level providers or reduction in the incidence of caries.
Whether that means the field is dying depends if you like dentistry because of opprotunity for self employment, income or job security. If those are your reasons, it is probably going to get worse out there. Dentistry has more in common with law or pharmacy from a supply/demand standpoint than it does medicine.
If you just like cutting teeth and can get through without much debt, different story. Maybe you just like teeth. Great. the nature of our work hasn't changed.
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Dentistry is declining but it’s still a profitable and good field none the less. Where else in business can you run a clinic on 50-65% overhead. Being self employed and three day weekends is a nice lifestyle.
The only real potential downfall to the entire gig is not corporate, it’s not insurance, it’s not oversaturation. I can deal with more competition... I can deal with more insurance... I can deal with more dentists on the block... one thing I can’t deal with? Just one thing: single payer plan. If Medicare for all encompasses dentistry and medicine... which in my opinion it will in our generation... it will make dentistry and medicine not worth it anymore. 50-75% paycuts in fees is crazy. I’ll just go work part time hourly locum tenens and collect a paycheck and go fishing all day.
I don't think it will happen 2020/2024/2028...but onwards 2030 who knows. To bad all the dentists and MDs that are balls deep in debt and will be graduating into this changing climate are going to be stuck with a crappy situation.
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I have solved the lab dilemma in my private practice the following way: I choose the type of crown the patient can receive based on my clinical opinion. I then give them a menu of labs (no names) with representation of what they can expect to receive....good, better, best....with the fee for each crown next to it. The good crown is at no additional charge. The better and best crowns are described as increased aesthetics, custom shading, with no difference in durability or function. The patient can decide on Hyundai, Audi, or Ferrari. Not everyone can drive a Ferrari. They seem to understand. Most of my patients choose Ferrari for anterior crowns. The additional fee is paid, no additional overhead for me, and I get free advertising each time they smile. A win for both of us.
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I don't understand the single payer concept much, but does that mean that insurances/private pay ceases to exist or will it be a two-tier system (those on government insurance and those that can afford better insurance/cash)?
If fees drop, demand should go up, but then supply (for the fee reduced market) will most likely shrink. If supply shrinks, can we expect rationing or an increase in queuing time of medical/dental care? In times of supply contractions, there's always an opportunity to make money somewhere. If you are allowed to do ffs in a single payer system, you have the advantage of selling convenience/minimal appointment wait times, and I sure as hell would market that. I've done it before by implicitly saying we're the only office in the area that doesn't take medicaid, why go to a medicaid mill when you can go to us. In a scenario where only the government is allowed to pay at extremely low reimbursement rates, then implicity, there should be no problems in lowering the standard of care.
The doomsday scenario that you're painting, it should provide even more motivation to retire early.
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