DOA for competitive residencies?

[voxveritatisetlucis]

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Hi everybody,

I am fortunate enough to be starting medical school this summer despite a significant red flag from 3-4 years ago. Despite getting in, I was WLed or rejected from ~13 schools post interview (despite being a good interviewer), because of this red flag.

Going into medical school, am I dead on arrival for competitive specialties and programs? I am confident that I will be able to be ranked in the top decile and get AOA. However, I’m not sure if I should set myself up for a competitive residency if my app will be thrown in the trash. By time I apply, the conviction will be 8 to 9 years old and hopefully sealed. Has anybody heard of a med student matching competitive specialties with a red flag from before med school?

 

[catnip12]

Get in and do the best you can. You cannot change the past so you should not limit yourself before you even take your first medical school class. Also, about being top decile, it is possible, but don't underestimate your future classmates, and/or overestimate your abilities.

 

[FalconSlice]

Hi everybody,

I am fortunate enough to be starting medical school this summer despite a significant red flag from 3-4 years ago. Despite getting in, I was WLed or rejected from ~13 schools post interview (despite being a good interviewer), because of this red flag.

Going into medical school, am I dead on arrival for competitive specialties and programs? I am confident that I will be able to be ranked in the top decile and get AOA. However, I’m not sure if I should set myself up for a competitive residency if my app will be thrown in the trash. By time I apply, the conviction will be 8 to 9 years old and hopefully sealed. Has anybody heard of a med student matching competitive specialties with a red flag from before med school?

Generally, no one cares what you did before medical school (unless you ran a company, significant research, etc. for "good" things or felonies and other major brushes with the law--in which case the med school will find out in the background check anyway...).

That being said, just because something is "competitive" doesn't mean it's the best choice for you. pre-meds and med students always assume it is even if they say they don't... (this post among scores of others being proof). It is a childish and naïve way of thinking about this (sorry to be harsh).

Also, the bolded statement exemplifies the ignorance and arrogance even more. I'm sorry, but you really still have no idea what med school will be like and how "ranking" and "AOA" actually is so different at different schools and even year-to-year. As the previous commenter said, keep your head down and learn as many things as deeply as you can. It's not the worst thing in the world if you actually want to go into *gasp* family medicine instead of dermatology.

Again, sorry if that came off as harsh, but needed to be said.

 

[deleted1100659]

Generally, no one cares what you did before medical school (unless you ran a company, significant research, etc. for "good" things or felonies and other major brushes with the law--in which case the med school will find out in the background check anyway...).

That being said, just because something is "competitive" doesn't mean it's the best choice for you. pre-meds and med students always assume it is even if they say they don't... (this post among scores of others being proof). It is a childish and naïve way of thinking about this (sorry to be harsh).

Also, the bolded statement exemplifies the ignorance and arrogance even more. I'm sorry, but you really still have no idea what med school will be like and how "ranking" and "AOA" actually is so different at different schools and even year-to-year. As the previous commenter said, keep your head down and learn as many things as deeply as you can. It's not the worst thing in the world if you actually want to go into *gasp* family medicine instead of dermatology.

Again, sorry if that came off as harsh, but needed to be said.

I think it depends on what that red flag is, and how serious it is. if its an easily visible criminal conviction, then I would say it will play a significant part on how residencies view you.

But I agree, I think everyone goes in with the mindset they're going to be the best, and when you have 100 of these people in the same room, only one person can be number one. Someone has to be number 100.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I understand why you're keeping the specifics close to the vest, but as always the answer to these questions is "it depends on what the red flag is, how competitive the rest of your application is, and what specialty you apply to." But in general, if you're applying to something uber competitive like derm where EVERYONE is in the top decile/AOA/etc, then you have to be even further up on the bell curve.

 

[Lawpy]

Also just be prepared that your grades aren't like college where it's almost completely in your control. I had a near perfect MCAT, got high As in every science class, very high Step 1, above average in every core class and shelf exam, still was bottom half of my class. The social sciency stuff, papers we had to write, and most importantly clinical grades are so variable grader to grader and I got a couple of the notoriously tough graders. One 3/5 grade can tank your class rank. So just know that nothing is a guarantee. Also, the less competitive specialties are better because you don't have to work as much with the types of people who gun for AOA.

Are you at a top school that unfortunately has AOA?

 

[Lawpy]

Also OP you got good advice but keep in mind the med forums can be extremely demoralizing and depressing fairly regularly, with SDNer tendency to ignore your question and finding some reason to tear you apart under the pretense of being honest or realistic. For questions as specific and personal involving your red flag situation, please consider PMing SDN experts or use the Confidential Expert forums to post your questions anonymously.

 

[Chelsea FC]

You haven’t even started medical school as yet and worrying about your competitiveness for competitive specialties?? How about starting and figure out what you like rather than chasing the shiny specialties.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Thanks for the replies everybody!

I understand why you're keeping the specifics close to the vest, but as always the answer to these questions is "it depends on what the red flag is, how competitive the rest of your application is, and what specialty you apply to." But in general, if you're applying to something uber competitive like derm where EVERYONE is in the top decile/AOA/etc, then you have to be even further up on the bell curve.

Where are academic IM residencies that feed into heme onc, cardiology, and other fellowships usually positioned on the competitiveness scale

You haven’t even started medical school as yet and worrying about your competitiveness for competitive specialties?? How about starting and figure out what you like rather than chasing the shiny specialties.

Coming from a mid/lower tier school, I’ve heard one as to get all their ducks in a row if they’re thinking about a competitive residency. I know that I’ll probably have to do even more than average because of past mistakes I’ve made, so I’m just trying to get an idea if these would even be possible.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Where are academic IM residencies that feed into heme onc, cardiology, and other fellowships usually positioned on the competitiveness scale

Getting into a "top tier" IM program is tough, but a generic "strong" academic IM program which gets fellowship spots shouldn't be hard.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Also just be prepared that your grades aren't like college where it's almost completely in your control. I had a near perfect MCAT, got high As in every science class, very high Step 1, above average in every core class and shelf exam, still was bottom half of my class. The sociology stuff, papers we had to write, and most importantly clinical grades are so variable grader to grader and I got a couple of the notoriously tough graders. One or two 3/5 grades can tank your class rank if you didn't get picked for the clinic known to give out all 5/5s. So just know that nothing is a guarantee. Also, the less competitive specialties are better because you don't have to work as much with the types of people who gun for AOA.

What even are “less competitive” ones these days. I’ve been hearing that anesthesiology, psychiatry, EM etc. are all becoming more competitive and matching is becoming more difficult

 

[Ganon]

What even are “less competitive” ones these days. I’ve been hearing that anesthesiology, psychiatry, EM etc. are all becoming more competitive and matching is becoming more difficult

I have a feeling we are going to gravitate even more towards: "Yuck, a primary care residency" vs. "Yay, a non-primary care residency!"

 

[Chelsea FC]

I keep preaching this. Vast majority of docs aren’t in competitive specialties and live a fulfilling life and career. Why worry about specialties that you have no idea if you are interested in it. Life is too short

 

[Browns99]

What even are “less competitive” ones these days. I’ve been hearing that anesthesiology, psychiatry, EM etc. are all becoming more competitive and matching is becoming more difficult

Competitiveness in tiers:

Uber-High- Integrated Plastics, Neurosurgery, ENT
High- Derm, Ortho, Ophthalmology and Urology
Mid- Psychiatry (low end of mid) , general surgery
Low- Anesthesia, EM, rads and all the rest.



Some may argue that ENT is in the "high" category, while ortho could be in the "Uber-high" class, so some are interchangeable.

 

[Lawpy]

I keep preaching this. Vast majority of docs aren’t in competitive specialties and live a fulfilling life and career. Why worry about specialties that you have no idea if you are interested in it. Life is too short

Yeah i agree with this. SDN/reddit likes to overhype the surgical subs and derms as the must go to specialties… but medicine is a lot more than that. It’s better to just ignore the internet hype and focus on things that are actually interesting to you

 

[Lawpy]

Competitiveness in tiers:

Uber-High- Integrated Plastics, Neurosurgery, ENT
High- Derm, Ortho, Ophthalmology and Urology
Mid- Psychiatry (low end of mid) , general surgery
Low- Anesthesia, EM, rads, etc

All the rest

Some may argue that ENT is in the "high" category, while ortho could be in the "Uber-high" class, so some are interchangeable.

Wait how is psych more competitive than rads? I feel like i missed something big here

 

[Chelsea FC]

Competitiveness in tiers:

Uber-High- Integrated Plastics, Neurosurgery, ENT
High- Derm, Ortho, Ophthalmology and Urology
Mid- Psychiatry (low end of mid) , general surgery
Low- Anesthesia, EM, rads, etc

All the rest

Some may argue that ENT is in the "high" category, while ortho could be in the "Uber-high" class, so some are interchangeable.

EM has 210+ unfilled spots so its wayyy less competitive than specialties that havent been listed. Students are running away with the doom and gloom around the field. Anesthesia and rads just as competitive if not more competitive than gen surg

 

[Browns99]

EM has 210+ unfilled spots so its wayyy less competitive than specialties that havent been listed. Students are running away with the doom and gloom around the field. Anesthesia and rads just as competitive if not more competitive than gen surg

That's why it is listed as low....

 

[Browns99]

Wait how is psych more competitive than rads? I feel like i missed something big here

Like I said, some are interchangeable except for Neurosurgery and Integrated Plastics......

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Which path is more common for competitive specialties

1. Apply to a backup specialty in case don’t match

2. Not match and SOAP into specialty spot

 

[Browns99]

Which path is more common for competitive specialties

1. Apply to a backup specialty in case don’t match

2. Not match and SOAP into specialty spot

Try getting through the first year or so of medical school before worrying about possibly having to SOAP. While I understand you want to plan early, but don't shoot for a field because of prestige, find something you are passionate about because you will be doing it for the next 30+ years after residency.

 

[calivianya]

The question is warranted imo.

I came in on the other end of the spectrum (wanting IM) and ended up applying for a specialty with <200 spots in the match. What that practically looked like is me applying to three total specialties - my super competitive one, a decently competitive one that I also like, and then IM as a backup because I don’t know if I’m competitive for either of my others. It is 100% worth knowing from the beginning what you need to do or look like to be competitive for a competitive field… because if you don’t work toward being competitive, and decide on a competitive specialty later, the roller coaster ride you end up on is not fun. Better to be the best qualified IM applicant in the class than the least competitive applicant for ortho or plastics or whatever.

So that being said, if it’s a serious issue - which I think it must be if you got so many interviews but then they rejected you - I would consider trying to make a connection with the PDs in fields you’re interested in to ask them outright if they would ever rank a candidate with whatever’s in your history. That is the only way you’re going to know.

 

[Ole_Toe]

What did you do?

 

[mrbreakfast]

Wait how is psych more competitive than rads? I feel like i missed something big here

DR hasn't been competitive in year, and is actually one of the less competitive specialties. Based on charting outcomes, it has a 95.5% match rate, which is higher than pathology and only a little below FM, and a 97% match rate for Step 1 > 210, which is one of the highest for any specialty. Rad's mean step score and other metrics are high, but that's because almost 36% of DR applicants applied to at least one other specialty (e.g. to IR, which had a 98% dual-apply rate, or to derm, with a 76% dual-apply rate), and it's safe to say for the vast majority of them DR was their back-up.

 

[KirksvilleKrunk]

If the med school admitted you its probably not a big deal. They don't admit students who won't match into residency. This is a professionalism ding BEFORE med school. Every specialty has the same professionalism standards. Probably best to find a mentor to talk about this with (not from your school) and get all of your letter writers to speak highly on your behavioral strengths.

 

[Doctoscope]

Just a premed applying next year, but the IM doc I worked for/shadowed actually specifically told me not to chase a specialty just because it's competitive, because it's a guaranteed way to make yourself miserable.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If the med school admitted you its probably not a big deal. They don't admit students who won't match into residency. This is a professionalism ding BEFORE med school. Every specialty has the same professionalism standards. Probably best to find a mentor to talk about this with (not from your school) and get all of your letter writers to speak highly on your behavioral strengths.

But that is partly why I’m concerned because so many schools didn’t admit me post interview. Then again, it could be more of a risk management thing such that they might have wanted somebody with my background to show a few additional years of distance between the incident and starting medical school to diminish probably of it happening again in med school.

I talked to lawyers in my state and state of school and they said that theydidn’t foresee it causing a licensing issue but were not familiar with ERAS or match

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

DR hasn't been competitive in year, and is actually one of the less competitive specialties. Based on charting outcomes, it has a 95.5% match rate, which is higher than pathology and only a little below FM, and a 97% match rate for Step 1 > 210, which is one of the highest for any specialty. Rad's mean step score and other metrics are high, but that's because almost 36% of DR applicants applied to at least one other specialty (e.g. to IR, which had a 98% dual-apply rate, or to derm, with a 76% dual-apply rate), and it's safe to say for the vast majority of them DR was their back-up.

You can't just look at match rates. There are plenty of bottom-feeders DR programs (~25%) that will take anyone, but on average the majority of academic rads programs will be significantly more competitive with psych. Plus, rads is a highly self-selecting field. Rads is higher than psych in nearly every metric used to assess applicants

And even before integrated IR was a thing, the average matched Rads applicant was still stronger than the average matched psych applicant.


Before posting next time, you probably should have a better idea of what you are talking about

 

[KirksvilleKrunk]

But that is partly why I’m concerned because so many schools didn’t admit me post interview. Then again, it could be more of a risk management thing such that they might have wanted somebody with my background to show a few additional years of distance between the incident and starting medical school to diminish probably of it happening again in med school.

I talked to lawyers in my state and state of school and they said that theydidn’t foresee it causing a licensing issue but were not familiar with ERAS or match

Did they specifically tell you that the red flag was why you didnt get accepted? I would think if they extended an interview, they were at least partially OK with your history. Lawyers kind of suck regarding this because like you said, they dont know ERAS or what the match even is. They usually help doctors who were already licensed and then got caught up in legal issues. But there is bound to be some lawyer who encountered your situation before, so keep asking around. Best thing would be to befriend a PD or former PD and rack their brain about this. Risky though.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Did they specifically tell you that the red flag was why you didnt get accepted? I would think if they extended an interview, they were at least partially OK with your history. Lawyers kind of suck regarding this because like you said, they dont know ERAS or what the match even is. They usually help doctors who were already licensed and then got caught up in legal issues. But there is bound to be some lawyer who encountered your situation before, so keep asking around. Best thing would be to befriend a PD or former PD and rack their brain about this. Risky though.

That is the only reason I can think of unless I’m a much worse interviewer over zoom than I am in person, which I guess is defintely a possibility. I didn’t want to ask the schools for feedback (the ones who give it) because I feel like it’s really geared more for people who don’t get in anywhere and I didn’t want to take one of those people’s spots


There is also a decent chance that it gets sealed as the state already indicated that it had no objections to the motion to seal the record. Now comes down to what the judge decides in regards to sealing.

 

[mrbreakfast]

You can't just look at match rates. There are plenty of bottom-feeders DR programs (~25%) that will take anyone, but on average the majority of academic rads programs will be significantly more competitive with psych. Plus, rads is a highly self-selecting field. Rads is higher than psych in nearly every metric used to assess applicants

And even before integrated IR was a thing, the average matched Rads applicant was still stronger than the average matched psych applicant.


Before posting next time, you probably should have a better idea of what you are talking about

I mean, I can give you stats like number of interviews needed to match, applicants/spot, match rate at given step range, etc. I'm not really sure how to weigh your personal opinion against stat like, for example, applicants who got just a single DR interview had a 70% match rate, or that DR had a higher match rate for applicants with a below average step score than psychiatry did. It's pretty hard to argue a field is competitive when almost everyone who applies to it matches. Sure, DR has a high mean step score, but an applicant with psych's means step score who applied DR would be more likely to match (99%) than an applicant with DR's mean step score who applied psych (94%) so...and DR's overall match rate was 96% in 2011 and a whopping 98.5% in 2014.

Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers or offend anyone, and I realize radiology applicants historically look good on paper; they evidently are a self-selecting bunch, as you say. But if you define competitiveness as "how likely is the average med student to match in this field if they apply?" the answer to that question for DR is "close to 100%."

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

I mean, I can give you stats like number of interviews needed to match, applicants/spot, match rate at given step range, etc. I'm not really sure how to weigh your personal opinion against stat like, for example, applicants who got just a single DR interview had a 70% match rate, or that DR had a higher match rate for applicants with a below average step score than psychiatry did. It's pretty hard to argue a field is competitive when almost everyone who applies to it matches. Sure, DR has a high mean step score, but an applicant with psych's means step score who applied DR would be more likely to match (99%) than an applicant with DR's mean step score who applied psych (94%) so...and DR's overall match rate was 96% in 2011 and a whopping 98.5% in 2014.

Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers or offend anyone, and I realize radiology applicants historically look good on paper; they evidently are a self-selecting bunch, as you say. But if you define competitiveness as "how likely is the average med student to match in this field if they apply?" the answer to that question for DR is "close to 100%."

You're not ruffling anyone's feathers. You are posting misinformation. You are basing psych's competitiveness on one single year. Here are the actual charting outcomes from 2020.

You can see that the average UNMATCHED USMLE step 1 score for radiology (226) is nearly identical to the average MATCHED USMLE step one score for psych (227)

The average AOA percentage for diagnostic radiology is 3x the average AOA percentage for psych


Just for fun, here's the charting outcomes for the 2016 match. Note that the average matched for radiology was >240 when the average matched for psych was not even 230.

The reason why I'm going through all of this is that future readers aren't misled from your post

 

[mrbreakfast]

The reason why I'm going through all of this is that future readers aren't misled from your post

I think you're missing my point. You're arguing that, on paper, DR applicants have mean higher step scores, research metrics, AOA, whatever, compared to psych residents. No one's arguing against that, it's clear in the data.

I'm going off of stuff like this. DR applicants had high step scores, but it didn't really matter, because essentially all the applicants matched, even those with low scores. You can't convince me DR is competitive because there simply aren't applicants who aren't successfully matching. I mean, look at the data. Can you conceive of an applicant whom you'd tell isn't competitive for DR? Would you tell someone not to apply because they have a low step score?

A specialty isn't competitive because its applicants have high metrics; it's competitive because they need those metrics, or they won't match. If you apply to DR, regardless of your stats, you have a very, very high likelihood of matching. If you plop an average med student on that graph and one on psychiatry's, statistically the one on DR is more likely to match. It doesn't matter that their stats are below average for DR and above average for psych. The stats show that diagnostic radiology is matching almost everyone who applies.

I'm not sure why you're accusing me of spreading misinformation when I'm essentially encouraging people apply to what I presume is your field. A potential applicant with a 225 on Step 1 (which is an anachronism now, but you get the point) might be intimidated by applying to a field with a mean accepted Step 1 score of 241. I'm trying to show them that their chances of matching are actually much higher than they might think. It's not competitive. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, that's just fact.

 

[Redpancreas]

Hi everybody,

I am fortunate enough to be starting medical school this summer despite a significant red flag from 3-4 years ago. Despite getting in, I was WLed or rejected from ~13 schools post interview (despite being a good interviewer), because of this red flag.

Going into medical school, am I dead on arrival for competitive specialties and programs? I am confident that I will be able to be ranked in the top decile and get AOA. However, I’m not sure if I should set myself up for a competitive residency if my app will be thrown in the trash. By time I apply, the conviction will be 8 to 9 years old and hopefully sealed. Has anybody heard of a med student matching competitive specialties with a red flag from before med school?

Unless your red flag includes already completing 90% of medical school and then getting kicked out within the last couple months to a year, I highly doubt you have any insight on your ability to get AOA.

That said, I would go for it and put all your effort into it, but be ready to accept that you may fail despite all the effort that you made and that if you do, accept the fact that you are content with a primary care specialty where you can see yourself getting up motivated to help patient’s everyday.

 

[Kardio]

If you’re packing a felony that will show up on your residency app but got into a USMD school after the conviction, you’re in such a rare spot that few people will be able to offer data driven or even anecdotal advise.

That said, you’re question is pointless. Not because it’s dumb to wonder how legal issues will impact your competitiveness, but because you’re not going to behave differently anyway. You worked hard, despite low odds of success, to get yourself an acceptance. Low odds or not, you’re going to try your best. And you should.

 

[AzBasRad]

OP, as others have eluded, you are getting way ahead of yourself.

Start med school, do well academically (classes, clinicals, Steps) , shadow and find your speciality early, connect with mentors and delve into research. If you are a decent dude/dudette and well liked w/i the department at your med school, they will most likely take you. I don't know what your red flag is, but if your med school was able to look past it, I don't see why a specific department/speciality won't. You're better off asking them (PD, APD, chief residents) early as well.

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

I think you're missing my point. You're arguing that, on paper, DR applicants have mean higher step scores, research metrics, AOA, whatever, compared to psych residents. No one's arguing against that, it's clear in the data.

View attachment 351899

I'm going off of stuff like this. DR applicants had high step scores, but it didn't really matter, because essentially all the applicants matched, even those with low scores. You can't convince me DR is competitive because there simply aren't applicants who aren't successfully matching. I mean, look at the data. Can you conceive of an applicant whom you'd tell isn't competitive for DR? Would you tell someone not to apply because they have a low step score?

A specialty isn't competitive because its applicants have high metrics; it's competitive because they need those metrics, or they won't match. If you apply to DR, regardless of your stats, you have a very, very high likelihood of matching. If you plop an average med student on that graph and one on psychiatry's, statistically the one on DR is more likely to match. It doesn't matter that their stats are below average for DR and above average for psych. The stats show that diagnostic radiology is matching almost everyone who applies.

I'm not sure why you're accusing me of spreading misinformation when I'm essentially encouraging people apply to what I presume is your field. A potential applicant with a 225 on Step 1 (which is an anachronism now, but you get the point) might be intimidated by applying to a field with a mean accepted Step 1 score of 241. I'm trying to show them that their chances of matching are actually much higher than they might think. It's not competitive. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, that's just fact.

Here's the issue when you look at that data. The people that apply with scores in that range either have tremendous research or significant connections.

For example, per the 2021 charting outcomes, if we look at the people that matched Dermatology with step 1 scores between 191-200, that's 3/5 (60%), No one believes for a second that the average person would be able to match Derm with those scores without some sort of "X factor"

Simply put, you are interpreting things in a vacuum. I think you'll be surprised at the charting data for this cycle. This cycle, Psych has 21 spots in the soap. DR has 2. Not one person other than you on these forms would say Psych is more competitive than Rads.

 

[operaman]

Echoing the others - all depends on what the red flag is. I’ve seen some applicants match ent with prior arrests. One was a DUI and the other was relating to urinating on a frat house lawn. Both were otherwise stellar applicants, and even then I’m sure it hurt them as neither were ranked highly at my program. And you’re instantly know as “the pee guy” or something similar when people talk about your app.

Things related to being young and stupid and from which you’ve clearly learned and matured may not hurt you too much. I would imagine more serious offenses, especially anything violent or other substances could be a major issue. Certain fields tend to have their own aversions too - ie anesthesia is known for DNRing anyone with substance issues simply because of the access they have to all sorts of things.

Regardless, getting it sealed/expunged is obviously a top priority if at all possible.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Echoing the others - all depends on what the red flag is. I’ve seen some applicants match ent with prior arrests. One was a DUI and the other was relating to urinating on a frat house lawn.

thanks for your insight. These two don’t seem to be equivalent. Wouldn’t the former be considered by PDs to be much worse than the latter?

 

[Lucca]

if a med school let u in, it is probably not something that will make u DOA.

 

[bGMx]

thanks for your insight. These two don’t seem to be equivalent. Wouldn’t the former be considered by PDs to be much worse than the latter?

I'd say they're pretty equivalent. Nearly every one of us has had some form of drinking and lawn mowing, and a few of us stopped midway through the job to pee on the fraternity lawn. I just didn't expect the feds to be ponging it up with the undergrads while on duty.

I joke; I think you're OK. Provided this is an infarction from before medical school, and you made it into medical school with the infarction obviously displayed, you were chosen anyway. If you hid that infarction from med school AdComs, that's a whole issue.

 

[Lawpy]

Echoing the others - all depends on what the red flag is. I’ve seen some applicants match ent with prior arrests. One was a DUI and the other was relating to urinating on a frat house lawn. Both were otherwise stellar applicants, and even then I’m sure it hurt them as neither were ranked highly at my program. And you’re instantly know as “the pee guy” or something similar when people talk about your app.

Things related to being young and stupid and from which you’ve clearly learned and matured may not hurt you too much. I would imagine more serious offenses, especially anything violent or other substances could be a major issue. Certain fields tend to have their own aversions too - ie anesthesia is known for DNRing anyone with substance issues simply because of the access they have to all sorts of things.

Regardless, getting it sealed/expunged is obviously a top priority if at all possible.

But why would programs be risk averse if US med schools are still okay with the same red flags? That doesn’t make sense because med school admissions are the ones who are going to get the most heat for allowing red flags to go through in the first place

 

[gyngyn]

Which path is more common for competitive specialties

1. Apply to a backup specialty in case don’t match

2. Not match and SOAP into specialty spot

There are no "specialty" spots in the SOAP. At least not the kind you are referring to.
You either do (another) research year, apply primarily to a second specialty or SOAP into a surg prelim and try again (double apply this time).

 

[wholeheartedly]

If the question on the app is “have you ever been convicted,“ and the conviction is sealed, wouldn’t you technically still need to disclose that?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If the question on the app is “have you ever been convicted,“ and the conviction is sealed, wouldn’t you technically still need to disclose that?

I actually don’t know, because the state department of justice only publishes guidelines in relation to jobs. It says that it is the equivalent of it never happening and one does not need to check the box. I know that it is different in other states so would need to make sure to ask advisor and counsel if this would be okay.

Also I know for a medical license, I would have to disclose regardless of whether it is sealed.

 

[deleted555445]

I actually don’t know, because the state department of justice only publishes guidelines in relation to jobs. It says that it is the equivalent of it never happening and one does not need to check the box. I know that it is different in other states so would need to make sure to ask advisor and counsel if this would be okay.

Also I know for a medical license, I would have to disclose regardless of whether it is sealed.

I'm no expert, so I'm only sharing my opinion as a fellow incoming M1.

My guess is no medical school would have accepted you if this conviction would prevent you from getting a medical license. However, just being able to get a medical license doesn't mean that you aren't a less competitive applicant because of the conviction. If you have to disclose it, it will probably hurt you depending on the nature of the crime (i.e. getting in a bar fight in college would probably be easier to explain than dealing narcotics). But like anything in this process, its all a matter of making the best application you can. You're going to be coming in behind the 8 ball, as there will be many competitive residency applicants who don't have a legal history, but you can still work hard and demonstrate why you are not the person you were before.

 

[Taddy Mason]

…This cycle, Psych has 21 spots in the soap. DR has 2….

Nit picky and tangential buuuut, that’s unfilled spots NOT spots in SOAP and pretty consistently not all unfilled spots for psych are available in SOAP (there’s no way of knowing exactly how many spots were available in SOAP or which programs participated unless you were a SOAP eligible applicant for a given year or on the med school admin side of things………., but you can get a close estimate for some specialties by looking at the difference between unfilled spots after the Match and unfilled spots after SOAP). Also, close to half of those 21 spots are from brand new programs that didn’t participate in the main Match but are participating in SOAP which is where the majority of “unfilled” psych positions when you look at NRMP data and psych SOAP positions have come from for at least the past 4-5+ years. For example, the year I matched I believe there were around 15-16 unfilled psych spots (not counting combined programs). However, only 10 or 12 of those were available in SOAP, 9 of which were all from new programs that didn’t participate in the Match. Of the remaining 3 spots, 2 were research track specific and I believe did not fill, we’re not actively recruited for, or possibly didn’t actually participate in SOAP for that reason. I didn’t SOAP and can’t remember the details, but point being that only 1-3 spots available in SOAP were from programs that actually participated in the Match and this has been a consistent trend in psych for the better part of a decade at this point.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

When should I start asking for research, considering that I may have to go above and beyond to get certain matches. I am thinking about doing machine learning research so hypothetically I could do it from home after my normal job. Should I wait until I start? I was deferred post interview at my top choice so there is a small chance I may not end up going where I’m thinking about going now

 

[samsun]

You haven’t even started medical school as yet and worrying about your competitiveness for competitive specialties?? How about starting and figure out what you like rather than chasing the shiny specialties.

Well said

 

[Taurus]

Please make the tragic death of this physician mean something

We will never know how much more Leigh could have accomplished, how many more lives she could have touched. She only wished to help others heal, but the system thoroughly and unequivocally failed her.

www.kevinmd.com

Leigh Sundem Memorial Scholarship | Center for Addiction Recovery | Georgia Southern University



This is a very relevant and sad case. Former addict, arrested multiple times, got sober. Accepted into and did well in medical school. Aimed for the stars and failed to match ortho first time. I think she tried EM and failed to match. Tried a third time and failed to match. Then she committed suicide.

Her suicide notes are very sad. It’s disappointing how our system failed her.

Just because you got accepted into medical school does not necessarily mean you will match into residency, get a state license, or pass credentialing. I think it highly depends on what the red flag is and what field you apply to.