DOA for competitive residencies?

[ChordaEpiphany]

OP I think nearly everything that needs to be said has been said. Your first priority should be getting this sealed and/or in a state where it does not have to be disclosed. Second priority, if the first is not bulletproof, is making personal connections. If I'm a PD choosing between two candidates, and one has a serious conviction, I'm choosing the non-convicted one, even if the convicted applicant has a 20+ point advantage on Step, more research, AOA, and better letters.

Think about liability. If that PD hires you, and you do something rash or mess up in some way, they have to answer for why they took you. It could cost them their position. If the PD hires a less qualified resident on paper without red flags and the same thing happens, it's rightly recognized as the cost of doing business.

The only way I'd take on that liability in that position is if I personally knew the applicant, felt 100% confident that they will not cause any problems, and had some reason to think that they would further enhance the program beyond what a normal applicant is capable of.

I am confident that I will be able to be ranked in the top decile and get AOA

You should be less confident. Excelling in medical school is very different from undergrad.

Where are academic IM residencies that feed into heme onc, cardiology, and other fellowships usually positioned on the competitiveness scale

Big 4 = As competitive as any other residency out there unless you already attend a T20 school.
Solid academic = School dependent. At a T50 school as long as you put in an honest effort and check all the boxes you can get one of these residencies.

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

Please make the tragic death of this physician mean something

We will never know how much more Leigh could have accomplished, how many more lives she could have touched. She only wished to help others heal, but the system thoroughly and unequivocally failed her.

www.kevinmd.com

Leigh Sundem Memorial Scholarship | Center for Addiction Recovery | Georgia Southern University



This is a very relevant and sad case. Former addict, arrested multiple times, got sober. Accepted into and did well in medical school. Aimed for the stars and failed to match ortho first time. I think she tried EM and failed to match. Tried a third time and failed to match. Then she committed suicide.

Her suicide notes are very sad. It’s disappointing how our system failed her.

Just because you got accepted into medical school does not necessarily mean you will match into residency, get a state license, or pass credentialing. I think it highly depends on what the red flag is and what field you apply to

I have read about this and it is one of the reasons I am somewhat nervous. Granted, hers were multiple felonies + jail time whereas mine misdemeanor no jail time.

Worst comes to worst, I would just go back into finance with an even more specialized focus on healthcare. I have already passed series 7 and 66. Plus, I have enough saved in cash/marketable securities to pay for nearly two years so it’s not like the debt would be unbearable, especially since I am getting a merit scholarship for over half tuition. Worst case, it would be like 80k plus the opportunity cost. Obviously it wouldn’t be ideal but I think I would regret staying finance and not giving med school a try due to fear.

 

[Goro]

I have read about this and it is one of the reasons I am somewhat nervous. Granted, hers were multiple felonies + jail time whereas mine misdemeanor no jail time.

Worst comes to worst, I would just go back into finance with an even more specialized focus on healthcare. I have already passed series 7 and 66. Plus, I have enough saved in cash/marketable securities to pay for nearly two years so it’s not like the debt would be unbearable, especially since I am getting a merit scholarship for over half tuition. Worst case, it would be like 80k plus the opportunity cost. Obviously it wouldn’t be ideal but I think I would regret staying finance and not giving med school a try due to fear.

Just get off of SDN already and do something constructive in the time before matriculation. Obsessing over things you have no control over when you haven't even set foot on a med school campus is unhealthy.

 

[throwaway123342]

Obsessing over things you have no control over when you haven't even set foot on a med school campus is unhealthy.

lol what. How does he not have control over this? He is making a decision that involves risk. He has clear control over whether to accept that risk by taking student loans or to not take that risk by walking away. Why would he not take some time to engage in due diligence on a purported forum of his peers. He has made 5 comments on this thread, not exactly an "obsession".

 

[operaman]

Please make the tragic death of this physician mean something

We will never know how much more Leigh could have accomplished, how many more lives she could have touched. She only wished to help others heal, but the system thoroughly and unequivocally failed her.

www.kevinmd.com

Leigh Sundem Memorial Scholarship | Center for Addiction Recovery | Georgia Southern University



This is a very relevant and sad case. Former addict, arrested multiple times, got sober. Accepted into and did well in medical school. Aimed for the stars and failed to match ortho first time. I think she tried EM and failed to match. Tried a third time and failed to match. Then she committed suicide.

Her suicide notes are very sad. It’s disappointing how our system failed her.

Just because you got accepted into medical school does not necessarily mean you will match into residency, get a state license, or pass credentialing. I think it highly depends on what the red flag is and what field you apply to.

I think OP has a distinct advantage over the girl in the tragic story because he is coming to this with a reasonable and thoughtful outlook. Doesn’t guarantee success of course but he seems to have a solid plan and solid backup plans.

I read the suicide note and either she was failed bigtime by her advisors or she lacked the capacity to listen and process what they were telling her. I have some friends with similar stories/red flags and their advisors helped steer them out of medicine and they’re alive and seemingly happy and working in other fields. Their advisors surely didn’t green light extra years of school and applying to one of the most competitive fields in all of medicine.

OP seems to have a solid grasp of the issues and hopefully can work the legal system to his advantage so this becomes a non issue.

 

[nimbus]

When should I start asking for research, considering that I may have to go above and beyond to get certain matches. I am thinking about doing machine learning research so hypothetically I could do it from home after my normal job. Should I wait until I start? I was deferred post interview at my top choice so there is a small chance I may not end up going where I’m thinking about going now

If you’re interested in a competitive specialty, you should have something lined up for M1 summer.

 

[Goro]

lol what. How does he not have control over this? He is making a decision that involves risk. He has clear control over whether to accept that risk by taking student loans or to not take that risk by walking away. Why would he not take some time to engage in due diligence on a purported forum of his peers. He has made 5 comments on this thread, not exactly an "obsession".

The paternalistic attitude exuded on this site is nauseating, especially by the non-doctors who have no clue.

One doesn't have to be a chicken to something about eggs.

The OP is fussing about things some three-four years in the future. The fact that he started this thread is enough

 

[Taurus]

I think OP has a distinct advantage over the girl in the tragic story because he is coming to this with a reasonable and thoughtful outlook. Doesn’t guarantee success of course but he seems to have a solid plan and solid backup plans.

I read the suicide note and either she was failed bigtime by her advisors or she lacked the capacity to listen and process what they were telling her. I have some friends with similar stories/red flags and their advisors helped steer them out of medicine and they’re alive and seemingly happy and working in other fields. Their advisors surely didn’t green light extra years of school and applying to one of the most competitive fields in all of medicine.

OP seems to have a solid grasp of the issues and hopefully can work the legal system to his advantage so this becomes a non issue.

I agree. The OP says he only he has misdemeanor and not felonies on his record. That won’t prevent him from eventually becoming an employed board-certified physician. However, the OP should not aim for the stars and pretend that he has an equal chance for any specialty as with someone else with equal stats and no red flags. His application is tarnished and he is coming from a position of weakness. So don’t apply to plastics, derm, ortho, ENT, etc. He should be happy with matching into less competitive fields like FM, IM, EM, peds, path, RadOnc, etc. He may even match into rad, gas, etc. If he’s lucky, he will get his foot in the door and get into a great fellowship or his field makes a dramatic turnaround. For example, my field radiology was near the bottom of medical student interest when I was matching. The interest has increased significantly because the job market turned around and radiology is again competitive to match. Look at the fundamentals of a field and ask yourself if this is a temporary correction or a structural permanent change. Radiology was in the former camp while I would argue a field like EM is in the latter camp.

 

[throwaway123342]

One doesn't have to be a chicken to something about eggs.

The OP is fussing about things some three-four years in the future. The fact that he started this thread is enough

I see...

So he gets to Match day and finds out that no ENT program interviewed him for the reasons he posted here. And his conclusion at that point is "well, at least I didn't obsess over an SDN thread 4 years ago!".

I don't know what it is about you that you feel the need to give off total condescension at all times. Especially for a group of people you have no basis or qualification for doing so.

 

[pazzer2]

Worst comes to worst, I would just go back into finance with an even more specialized focus on healthcare.

If you were to go back into finance, how can you avoid this being detected in a background check? I assume the same thing would happen for finance jobs. Am I misunderstanding?

 

[Dral]

Folks, no need to resort to personal insults.

OP, I don't think this will be a major issue, but I can't say for sure. It's hard to predict what a certain program will do with your app. You certainly will have to report it, despite it being sealed. One program may look at your app and think it not a big deal. Other programs may have some type of policy or a reviewer that just auto rejects an app with any type of conviction type red flag. However, I don't believe that every program in a competitive specialty will auto-reject based on your type of red flag alone. This will be relatively far in the past and people realize that we are all human and make mistakes. However, avoid any risk of academic dishonesty at all costs. I can tell you that at my program at least (a competitive specialty), that sort of red flag is pretty much a no go.

You've made it past the first step. My guess is you will find a field you enjoy and make it into a residency program. Just work hard and no more mess ups with the law for sure.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Folks, no need to resort to personal insults.

Agreed--I've removed a couple of posts that really were nonproductive. If you don't want to interact with another poster, just put them on ignore (preferably without a colorful parting shot).

 

[sloop]

This is all going to be highly fact-specific. You’ve said it is a misdemeanor which actually doesn’t say much. In my state, second degree assault is a misdemeanor. I think that a criminal conviction for second degree assault would seriously damage anyone’s prospect of basically any residency. Certain weapons charges are also misdemeanors. Obviously a lot of drug crimes are misdemeanors. DUI is generally a misdemeanor. All of these things are going to say different things about you to interviewers and raise different concerns.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you were to go back into finance, how can you avoid this being detected in a background check? I assume the same thing would happen for finance jobs. Am I misunderstanding?

Financial jobs don’t seem to care for the most part. Understandably they look mainly at offenses related to fraud and or theft

 

[deleted555445]

Financial jobs don’t seem to care for the most part. Understandably they look mainly at offenses related to fraud and or theft

Having cocaine-related convictions is actually a pre-requisite for many financial sector jobs

 

[nimbus]

We are so short right now that if you have no felonies, a pulse, and 46 chromosomes, then you are hired.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

We are so short right now that if you have no felonies, a pulse, and 46 chromosomes, then you are hired.

In anesthesiology? or in general?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The conviction was officially sealed today. My lawyer advised that I will not have to disclose on ERAS but I will talk to other people at the school.

I wonder how differently my cycle would have panned out if it was sealed a year ago but what’s done is done.

 

[NegativeMargin]

Well that certainly is a satisfying ending. Good luck OP!

 

[efle]

The conviction was officially sealed today. My lawyer advised that I will not have to disclose on ERAS but I will talk to other people at the school.

I wonder how differently my cycle would have panned out if it was sealed a year ago but what’s done is done.

I would absolutely not list it on ERAS if it is sealed, even if your advisor says better to be transparent, ignore them and keep it off your app if you are entitled to do so. It is way too common to get auto filtered out before anyone reads your app for things like a conviction or a failed board attempt

 

[Taurus]

I would absolutely not list it on ERAS if it is sealed, even if your advisor says better to be transparent, ignore them and keep it off your app if you are entitled to do so. It is way too common to get auto filtered out before anyone reads your app for things like a conviction or a failed board attempt

I agree. I would do whatever the lawyers say. The smallest red flag for the dumbest reasons will bomb your application. If they ask why you didn’t disclose, I would reply that I was advised by my lawyers not to and that you didn’t legally have to. If they have a problem with that, tell them that their lawyer can talk to your lawyer. Right now, they have you over a barrel because you’re in training so you have to play nice and disclose more than you legally have to. In the real world when you’re done training, it’s a more level playing field and it’s lawyer versus lawyer. I hate how our field has a “holier than though” attitude and we shoot our young while our competitors like nurses are eroding our scope.

 

[throwaway123342]

The conviction was officially sealed today. My lawyer advised that I will not have to disclose on ERAS but I will talk to other people at the school.

I wonder how differently my cycle would have panned out if it was sealed a year ago but what’s done is done.

I would recommend not breathing a word of this to anyone at your school. You would be surprised what admin will do in order to hurt a student. Just keep this as quiet as possible.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I would recommend not breathing a word of this to anyone at your school. You would be surprised what admin will do in order to hurt a student. Just keep this as quiet as possible.

Yes, I think that I will just check no, and if it does happen to come up for whatever reason (some private background companies don’t update their records very often), I would just tell the residency to contact my lawyer.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Unfortunately, I'm going to disagree with the consensus of this thread -- or at least point out it's not quite as simple as you think.

It is your choice whether you decide to disclose this or not. You have not posted on the thread what the actual issue is, so I can't assess how severe / germane the conviction is to medical practice.

Saying "my lawyer said it was OK" is not an excuse, ever. You can always find a lawyer whom is willing to back your plan, whatever it is. In the end the choice is yours, and the consequences of that choice are yours also.

I am never, ever going to "talk to your lawyer". I could care less what your lawyer told you.

When you disclose it post match (which you will do), it can cause lots of problems. You will need your program's support to get a training license (in most states). If the program doesn't fully support you, the board may not give you a license and then you lose your spot. You might fail the onboarding process at a VA. Or you might still get hired, but start on a really bad note - such that any new problem that arises will be seen more seriously.

If this is a misdemeanor for speeding, then no one is going to care, ever. Even if you don't disclose it, no one will care when it comes up later. If this is for a DUI, or drug distribution, then it will likely be a big deal.

So the choice is yours. If you disclose it (along with mentioning it's been sealed), then you might get less interviews -- but when you match somewhere, you know that the program will have your back. If you don't, you may get more interviews but if the program you match at has a problem with this, you could end up in a very tough spot.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Unfortunately, I'm going to disagree with the consensus of this thread -- or at least point out it's not quite as simple as you think.

It is your choice whether you decide to disclose this or not. You have not posted on the thread what the actual issue is, so I can't assess how severe / germane the conviction is to medical practice.

Saying "my lawyer said it was OK" is not an excuse, ever. You can always find a lawyer whom is willing to back your plan, whatever it is. In the end the choice is yours, and the consequences of that choice are yours also.

I am never, ever going to "talk to your lawyer". I could care less what your lawyer told you.

When you disclose it post match (which you will do), it can cause lots of problems. You will need your program's support to get a training license (in most states). If the program doesn't fully support you, the board may not give you a license and then you lose your spot. You might fail the onboarding process at a VA. Or you might still get hired, but start on a really bad note - such that any new problem that arises will be seen more seriously.

If this is a misdemeanor for speeding, then no one is going to care, ever. Even if you don't disclose it, no one will care when it comes up later. If this is for a DUI, or drug distribution, then it will likely be a big deal.

So the choice is yours. If you disclose it (along with mentioning it's been sealed), then you might get less interviews -- but when you match somewhere, you know that the program will have your back. If you don't, you may get more interviews but if the program you match at has a problem with this, you could end up in a very tough spot.

True, this is why I was on the fence about disclosure. I didn’t mean telling the PD to talk to the lawyer but rather the hospital HR or legal department since I assume they are more involved than the PD. Do you know if hospitals are bound by standard employment laws in resident hiring/firing. For example, in New York,

If you have an arrest that was resolved in your favor, a sealed record, or a youthful offender adjudication, you cannot be asked about it in any form application or otherwise, or discriminated against on, those grounds in connection with employment, licensing, or the provision of credit or insurance.

The protections described above do not apply to governmental agencies involved in the licensing of guns, firearms, and other deadly weapons, or in the employment of police officers or peace officers. There, the agency may ask about and consider an arrest resolved in your favor, a sealed record, or a youthful offender adjudication.

Would a NYC residency who fired a resident because of a sealed record be breaking state law in this case or does it not apply to hospitals?

 

[Browns99]

Yes, I think that I will just check no, and if it does happen to come up for whatever reason (some private background companies don’t update their records very often), I would just tell the residency to contact my lawyer.

Telling the residency to contact your lawyer...um, no, that won't fly.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Telling the residency to contact your lawyer...um, no, that won't fly.

I meant more of like the HR/legal staff than the actual program director or other faculty since I assume that program directors/residency faculty aren’t involved in the actual background check process. I could be wrong though. At places I’ve worked in the past, there is a firewall between HR and supervising employees/managers

I also obviously wouldn’t say it in an adversarial tone, but more of like “I was advised to answer in this way because of xyz state law. I can direct you to talk to xyz lawyer, who advised me to answer in this way, if you need any additional information”

 

[Browns99]

I meant more of like the HR/legal staff than the actual program director or other faculty since I assume that program directors/residency faculty aren’t involved in the actual background check process. I could be wrong though. At places I’ve worked in the past, there is a firewall between HR and supervising employees/managers

I also obviously wouldn’t say it in an adversarial tone, but more of like “I was advised to answer in this way because of xyz state law. I can direct you to talk to xyz lawyer, who advised me to answer in this way, if you need any additional information”

Ok, also, a good idea is to do a background check with fingerprints to be sure that the conviction does not show up.

 

[Mad Jack]

Thanks for the replies everybody!


Where are academic IM residencies that feed into heme onc, cardiology, and other fellowships usually positioned on the competitiveness scale


Coming from a mid/lower tier school, I’ve heard one as to get all their ducks in a row if they’re thinking about a competitive residency. I know that I’ll probably have to do even more than average because of past mistakes I’ve made, so I’m just trying to get an idea if these would even be possible.

If you're leaning toward IM subspecialties you're probably fine unless it was a violent offense. If it was a DUI or possession or something it'll probably get brushed aside. If it was a scuffle, hit or miss. If it was a domestic, that's going to haunt you forever. So it really depends on the offense

 

[efle]

Yeah can't you just try a background check on yourself to see if it's visible to residencies? How would it end up disclosed to his residency if it's sealed and not seen in the onboarding process?

 

[Taddy Mason]

Yeah can't you just try a background check on yourself to see if it's visible to residencies? How would it end up disclosed to his residency if it's sealed and not seen in the onboarding process?

Just because a record is “sealed” doesn’t mean it won’t show up when a licensure board does a search, background check for a DEA number, or federal agency (e.g., the VA). Which if it does show up in those instances unexpectedly it’ll come back to the residency program. I personally know someone this happened to and when the program found out in June they reported it as a Match violation. Ultimately this individual was dropped from the program before starting residency and barred from participating in the Match for several years for essentially lying on his/her application. What was found out/not disclosed was relatively minor but technically a violation and the program interpreted it as a “tip of iceberg” situation and preferred to cut their losses v. taking the risk.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Just because a record is “sealed” doesn’t mean it won’t show up when a licensure board does a search, background check for a DEA number, or federal agency (e.g., the VA). Which if it does show up in those instances unexpectedly it’ll come back to the residency program. I personally know someone this happened to and when the program found out in June they reported it as a Match violation. Ultimately this individual was dropped from the program before starting residency and barred from participating in the Match for several years for essentially lying on his/her application. What was found out/not disclosed was relatively minor but technically a violation and the program interpreted it as a “tip of iceberg” situation and preferred to cut their losses v. taking the risk.

Wow that’s crazy, he was kicked out for a sealed/expunged record? Did he try to fight it or did he just leave medicine altogether?

If you're leaning toward IM subspecialties you're probably fine unless it was a violent offense. If it was a DUI or possession or something it'll probably get brushed aside. If it was a scuffle, hit or miss. If it was a domestic, that's going to haunt you forever. So it really depends on the offense

It wasn’t violent. After doing some more research on specialties, I think that the most competitive I would go is radiology, with IM or neurology as a backup. Maybe since these aren’t overly competitive (outside of top programs of course…but not interested in academics so not sure how much top would even matter). Since these aren’t overly competitive, maybe it’s better just to disclose

 

[Sidus1011]

Wow that’s crazy, he was kicked out for a sealed/expunged record? Did he try to fight it or did he just leave medicine altogether?

It wasn’t violent. After doing some more research on specialties, I think that the most competitive I would go is radiology, with IM or neurology as a backup. Maybe since these aren’t overly competitive (outside of top programs of course…but not interested in academics so not sure how much top would even matter). Since these aren’t overly competitive, maybe it’s better just to disclose

Vox I sincerely think you'll be alright. Medical schools probably deal with things like this a lot more frequently than we think. If they decided to give you a shot I think they have insight as to how similar students may have fared. With the case being closed as well, I think it'll all play out fine in the end as long as you are able to disclose this and address how you've moved on if it comes up.

I'm looking more into Neuro too, I might consider using categorical Neuro as my back up for Psych (If I do end up pursuing it). Lifestyle may be more hectic, but Neuro is definitely fascinating and all the doctors I've scribed for have seemed happy with their field.

 

[Mad Jack]

Wow that’s crazy, he was kicked out for a sealed/expunged record? Did he try to fight it or did he just leave medicine altogether?

It wasn’t violent. After doing some more research on specialties, I think that the most competitive I would go is radiology, with IM or neurology as a backup. Maybe since these aren’t overly competitive (outside of top programs of course…but not interested in academics so not sure how much top would even matter). Since these aren’t overly competitive, maybe it’s better just to disclose

If it's not expunged/sealed and not revealed during a FBI background check you aren't required to disclose. If it does pop up, just disclose though. Most likely it won't matter

 

[Taddy Mason]

Wow that’s crazy, he was kicked out for a sealed/expunged record? Did he try to fight it or did he just leave medicine altogether?

She/he didn’t disclose because he/she didn’t think it would show-up. Popped-up when the state medical board was doing a background check for a training licenses —> residency program found out and argued she/he had lied on his/residency app and was able to back out of their half of the Match agreement and said individual got a Match ban. She/he obtained a spot outside the Match about a year later.

 

[Goro]

Unfortunately, I'm going to disagree with the consensus of this thread -- or at least point out it's not quite as simple as you think.

It is your choice whether you decide to disclose this or not. You have not posted on the thread what the actual issue is, so I can't assess how severe / germane the conviction is to medical practice.

Saying "my lawyer said it was OK" is not an excuse, ever. You can always find a lawyer whom is willing to back your plan, whatever it is. In the end the choice is yours, and the consequences of that choice are yours also.

I am never, ever going to "talk to your lawyer". I could care less what your lawyer told you.

When you disclose it post match (which you will do), it can cause lots of problems. You will need your program's support to get a training license (in most states). If the program doesn't fully support you, the board may not give you a license and then you lose your spot. You might fail the onboarding process at a VA. Or you might still get hired, but start on a really bad note - such that any new problem that arises will be seen more seriously.

If this is a misdemeanor for speeding, then no one is going to care, ever. Even if you don't disclose it, no one will care when it comes up later. If this is for a DUI, or drug distribution, then it will likely be a big deal.

So the choice is yours. If you disclose it (along with mentioning it's been sealed), then you might get less interviews -- but when you match somewhere, you know that the program will have your back. If you don't, you may get more interviews but if the program you match at has a problem with this, you could end up in a very tough spot.

The infraction was on the order of possession of hard drugs with intent to sell.

Thoughts?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The infraction was on the order of possession of hard drugs with intent to sell.

Thoughts?

It’s not this severe of an offense. Severe but not this. In the original WAMC, I wanted to get an idea of the worst case scenario

 

[RickyScott]

It’s not this severe of an offense. Severe but not this. In the original WAMC, I wanted to get an idea of the worst case scenario

Any misdemeanor should be wiped off your record and non reportable.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Any misdemeanor should be wiped off your record and non reportable.

Yes It is sealed now, which according to New York justice department, means that it will be wiped from the fingerprint database. However, sometimes the state forgets to report to the national system so I’ll have to check the prints beforehand

 

[Lawpy]

I would recommend not breathing a word of this to anyone at your school. You would be surprised what admin will do in order to hurt a student. Just keep this as quiet as possible.

Why would the school hurt their own students and damage their own match rates? That doesn’t make sense

 

[RickyScott]

Yes It is sealed now, which according to New York justice department, means that it will be wiped from the fingerprint database. However, sometimes the state forgets to report to the national system so I’ll have to check the prints beforehand

I would follow up that this done and certainty not report, once you confirm it does not show up on a search.
In radonc, multiple applicants with criminal records received interviews and were ranked this year. If you were applying to a competitive specialty, it will undoubtably hurt you.

 

[Lawpy]

Unfortunately, I'm going to disagree with the consensus of this thread -- or at least point out it's not quite as simple as you think.

It is your choice whether you decide to disclose this or not. You have not posted on the thread what the actual issue is, so I can't assess how severe / germane the conviction is to medical practice.

Saying "my lawyer said it was OK" is not an excuse, ever. You can always find a lawyer whom is willing to back your plan, whatever it is. In the end the choice is yours, and the consequences of that choice are yours also.

I am never, ever going to "talk to your lawyer". I could care less what your lawyer told you.

When you disclose it post match (which you will do), it can cause lots of problems. You will need your program's support to get a training license (in most states). If the program doesn't fully support you, the board may not give you a license and then you lose your spot. You might fail the onboarding process at a VA. Or you might still get hired, but start on a really bad note - such that any new problem that arises will be seen more seriously.

If this is a misdemeanor for speeding, then no one is going to care, ever. Even if you don't disclose it, no one will care when it comes up later. If this is for a DUI, or drug distribution, then it will likely be a big deal.

So the choice is yours. If you disclose it (along with mentioning it's been sealed), then you might get less interviews -- but when you match somewhere, you know that the program will have your back. If you don't, you may get more interviews but if the program you match at has a problem with this, you could end up in a very tough spot.

How can any program access a charge that’s been sealed?

 

[RickyScott]

How can any program access a charge that’s been sealed?

From what I understand only law enforcement. The point is not to screw someone for the rest of their life. The state does not have an interest in damaging your career so that you pay less taxes and make less of a contribution to society.

 

[Lawpy]

From what I understand only law enforcement. The point is not to screw someone for the rest of their life. The state does not have an interest in damaging your career.

I guess I’m still confused because something isn’t adding up here

OP’s charge is sealed. If OP applies with the statement they don’t have the charges, programs have no choice but to agree unless they have some capability to see the sealed charges… and if that’s the case, I want to know how

Because programs by default having law enforcement to scan through every matched incoming intern to look for sealed charges looks like a waste of resources.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Yes law enforcement and the courts can still access it, because if one does something again, penalties are more severe. Also for example, if one was applying to be a police officer, it would come up.

New York State does not release the records to license boards per my lawyer, but I guess theoretically it could come up at a VA rotation (maybe just apply to programs that don’t staff the va?).

The only thing that I can think of is the question that says “would you have any issue getting a medical license.”

I don’t know how to answer that because in every state, docs are licensed with the type of conviction that I have (unless they have done it multiple times)

 

[Lawpy]

Just because a record is “sealed” doesn’t mean it won’t show up when a licensure board does a search, background check for a DEA number, or federal agency (e.g., the VA). Which if it does show up in those instances unexpectedly it’ll come back to the residency program. I personally know someone this happened to and when the program found out in June they reported it as a Match violation. Ultimately this individual was dropped from the program before starting residency and barred from participating in the Match for several years for essentially lying on his/her application. What was found out/not disclosed was relatively minor but technically a violation and the program interpreted it as a “tip of iceberg” situation and preferred to cut their losses v. taking the risk.

What’s the point of sealing the charges if they’re going to show up in the background check anyways? The idea is to wipe the charges off your records from the database as they’re functionally dismissed.

 

[RickyScott]

Yes law enforcement and the courts can still access it, because if one does something again, penalties are more severe. Also for example, if one was applying to be a police officer, it would come up.

New York State does not release the records to license boards per my lawyer, but I guess theoretically it could come up at a VA rotation (maybe just apply to programs that don’t staff the va?).

The only thing that I can think of is the question that says “would you have any issue getting a medical license.”

I don’t know how to answer that because in every state, docs are licensed with the type of conviction that I have (unless they have done it multiple times)

Look buddy, I have been around the block and multiple docs have been in this situation. No one reports it. Run or pay for a background check on yourself.

 

[Lawpy]

Yes law enforcement and the courts can still access it, because if one does something again, penalties are more severe. Also for example, if one was applying to be a police officer, it would come up.

New York State does not release the records to license boards per my lawyer, but I guess theoretically it could come up at a VA rotation (maybe just apply to programs that don’t staff the va?).

The only thing that I can think of is the question that says “would you have any issue getting a medical license.”

I don’t know how to answer that because in every state, docs are licensed with the type of conviction that I have (unless they have done it multiple times)

Uh… i feel like that directly violates double jeopardy laws. But then again, the American justice system is driven on punishing people and operates on giving little to no chances of redemption (and people wonder why crime and social conditions are still worsening…)

I’m just trying to go with the simple understanding that sealed charges serve functionally as if they’re dismissed from your records and so if you run a background check on yourself, you wouldn’t see the sealed charges. And neither would the programs unless they’re operating on some strange extralegal methods and if so, I’d like to know what they are

 

[Taurus]

If you have an arrest that was resolved in your favor, a sealed record, or a youthful offender adjudication, you cannot be asked about it in any form application or otherwise, or discriminated against on, those grounds in connection with employment, licensing, or the provision of credit or insurance.

The protections described above do not apply to governmental agencies involved in the licensing of guns, firearms, and other deadly weapons, or in the employment of police officers or peace officers. There, the agency may ask about and consider an arrest resolved in your favor, a sealed record, or a youthful offender adjudication.

I expect applicants to follow the law and I expect training programs and state licensing boards to follow the law. No one is above the law. I’m a physician and not a law enforcement officer or judge. If the justice system has evaluated you and says that your offense can be sealed, who am I to second guess their judgment? It’s like how I wouldn’t want some non-medical person to second guess my medical decision-making. If training programs or licensing boards are breaking the law by trying to induce you to go against what your lawyer has advised you or punishes you by voiding your residency contract, you should file a lawsuit and take them to court. If I lose my residency spot over something like this and especially if I can’t get another spot, I’ll see that program in court. A precedent needs to be established if it hasn’t already that no training program or licensing board is above the law. What’s next? Training programs asking you if you have kids or plan to have kids?

 

[Taddy Mason]

What’s the point of sealing the charges if they’re going to show up in the background check anyways? The idea is to wipe the charges off your records from the database as they’re functionally dismissed.

Having records “sealed” is not as black and white as people think it is. And without knowing any details of OP’s charge(s) the best anyone can offer is to answer any future questions honestly or consider hiring an attorney familiar with medical licensure when the time comes. If OP chooses not to disclose that’s completely fine, but if something comes up down the road and a medical board, residency program, etc. ends up having to ask OP to explain why this wasn’t disclosed earlier there could be consequences.