docs and pilot's license

[HiddenTruth]

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Hi guys,

I was wondering whether any of you had any experiences with pilot licenses? I have been really interested in flying (ever since I was a kid). I think I would have became a pilot had I not decided to sell myself to this career. But anyways, I am interested to know the process and cost involved. I took one lesson back in my senior yr of high school but never went through with it.

I know it requires annual renewal and lots of commitment to keep it active--so is it not really worth getting one during med school (if i can find the time) or even during residency? I'd like to pick it up as a hobby mainly but I obviously don't know much about it.

If anyone has a pilot's license or has any experience with it, I'd love to know some details.

On a side note, is there a role of physicans for inflight practice? (other than military associated) Training, salaries?

Sorry for the fragmented post--thanks for any input.

 

[TTSD]

I was told to be a successful neurosurgeon you must have the following qualifications:

1) An MD degree
2) Board certification
3) Pilot's license
4) NRA membership

But outside of that, getting a pilot's license is an expensive and time consuming process.

 

[Green912]

I was looking into getting a licence over the summer, but the cost was a little much for me to justify. If I really had my way I'd get a helicopter pilots licence. Anyway, if I remember correctly you're looking at about $3500 total. I think that includes the 20hours of flight time you need w/the instructor. After that, keeping up the licence is fairly easy. It's when you want to carry passengers that things become more time consuming.

 

[phoenixsupra]

I was looking into getting a licence over the summer, but the cost was a little much for me to justify. If I really had my way I'd get a helicopter pilots licence. Anyway, if I remember correctly you're looking at about $3500 total. I think that includes the 20hours of flight time you need w/the instructor. After that, keeping up the licence is fairly easy. It's when you want to carry passengers that things become more time consuming.

ditto.

 

[Doc 2b]

Hi guys,

I was wondering whether any of you had any experiences with pilot licenses? I have been really interested in flying (ever since I was a kid). I think I would have became a pilot had I not decided to sell myself to this career. But anyways, I am interested to know the process and cost involved. I took one lesson back in my senior yr of high school but never went through with it.

I know it requires annual renewal and lots of commitment to keep it active--so is it not really worth getting one during med school (if i can find the time) or even during residency? I'd like to pick it up as a hobby mainly but I obviously don't know much about it.

If anyone has a pilot's license or has any experience with it, I'd love to know some details.

On a side note, is there a role of physicans for inflight practice? (other than military associated) Training, salaries?

Sorry for the fragmented post--thanks for any input.

I have my license I got it my senior year of high school.

Here is the deal, if you can't fly once a week or at least two weeks it isn't worth it, and makes you dangerous. It takes a great commitment to keep up with both mentally and financially. You can do it however. The Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) mandate that you recieve 20 hrs of dual instruction (excluding ground time) and 20 hrs of solo flight, including 3 solo cross country trips (meaning greater than 50 statute miles and I think at least 6 hrs of xcountry time as well. Most people will exceed these limitation before they are ready for their FAA checkride. I had about 60 hrs total time. It took me a little over a year to get mine. If you are already in school, I don't really see how you will have the time to study for classes and your license and fly all at the same time. However if you have a summer off, you can easily do it during the summer if you have the money. It cost me probably around 3500-4000 to get mine. However if you can do it for about 2500 if you fly everyday and fly a smaller plane. I did mine in a Cessna 172 you could do it in a 152 or 150 which rent for about 20/hr cheaper. Let me know if you have any questions, PM me if you want.

 

[Iain]

I have my license. I too got it during High School. Taking your pilots license is a big commitment, as mentioned it takes about 60 hours of flight time, an probably comparable studying to most college courses. Flying is expensive, when I was training it was $85 per hour.

To keep your license current - you have to take a flight review every 2 years, and keep an updated medical (every 3 years). However to operate an aircraft safely you need to fly every week or 2.

I went to University in the UK, and was unable to fly often. When I graduated I intended to pick it back up again, however I never did. I need to get a new medical, and a flight review. I would also probably need another 5-10 hours to get back up to speed. In the mean time I got new hobbies, which keep me occupied.

I am pleased I have it - it will never expire, and was/is good fun and maybe one day I will pick it back up.

 

[Frijolero]

I have my license. I too got it during High School. Taking your pilots license is a big commitment, as mentioned it takes about 60 hours of flight time, an probably comparable studying to most college courses. Flying is expensive, when I was training it was $85 per hour.

To keep your license current - you have to take a flight review every 2 years, and keep an updated medical (every 3 years). However to operate an aircraft safely you need to fly every week or 2.

I went to University in the UK, and was unable to fly often. When I graduated I intended to pick it back up again, however I never did. I need to get a new medical, and a flight review. I would also probably need another 5-10 hours to get back up to speed. In the mean time I got new hobbies, which keep me occupied.

I am pleased I have it - it will never expire, and was/is good fun and maybe one day I will pick it back up.

Everyones right on with the req's, but you don't need to fly once every week or two to stay safe, and the faa agrees. I don't remember exactly how many landings and takeoffs the FAA requires you to do per year, but it doesn't work out to flying once a week. It's like driving a car, it's something you don't forget, and I know a lot of pilots that don't fly at all from dec. to march, and then fly maybe a dozen times or so over the course of the summer. If you fly in marginal weather, at night, higher performance airplanes, long distances, etc., then yes, you do need to be flying more. If you're like me and prefer to cruise around locally in a 50 year old taildragger, you can stay very proficient and not fly weekly.

-Frijolero

 

[Discobolus]

My Dad has told me that years ago when he was getting his pilots license the instructor told him that the most dangerous pilots were doctors and ministers (my Dad is a minister). The reason being is that they aren't as afraid to take risks when flying because they are used to dealing with life and death situations fairly frequently.

 

[Doc 2b]

Everyones right on with the req's, but you don't need to fly once every week or two to stay safe, and the faa agrees. I don't remember exactly how many landings and takeoffs the FAA requires you to do per year, but it doesn't work out to flying once a week. It's like driving a car, it's something you don't forget, and I know a lot of pilots that don't fly at all from dec. to march, and then fly maybe a dozen times or so over the course of the summer. If you fly in marginal weather, at night, higher performance airplanes, long distances, etc., then yes, you do need to be flying more. If you're like me and prefer to cruise around locally in a 50 year old taildragger, you can stay very proficient and not fly weekly.

-Frijolero

The regs say that you have to have had three landings within the last 90 days to carry passengers. And if you fly at night you have to have made those landings at night. If you have an instrument rating you have to fly more often to maintain your proficiency because you have to fly so many approaches. Depending on the aircraft your flying you can also incur more training requirements and proficiency regs. However not flying often has been shown to increase accidents and incidents. The FAA suggests these requirements as minimums. I think you would be hard pressed to find many pilots that would disagree that every two weeks is a minimum. While the act of flying the airplane is like driving a car, systems managment and procedures decay over time.

To discobolus:

Your dad is somewhat right. Dr's got a bad name in aviation when back in the 60's general aviation boom many doctors began flying. The doctors could afford fast and high performance aircraft, which are much harder to manage. Therefore there were several accidents. The Beechcraft B35 similare to todays B36, except it had a V tail, was actually dubbed "doctor killer." The problem is two fold, doctors usually have an elevated sense of their abitlies and control, and can afford air planes that they don't have enough experience to fly. Being a doctor doesn't make them dangerous, it is usually the fat wallet they are setting on.

To you all who are thinking of getting your license think of what my instructor told me: "When you start your flying career you begin with a full bag of luck, and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill you bag of experience up before you empty your bag of luck." This is true in medicine as well.

 

[Iain]

The reality is it depends on what type of flying you are doing. If you are flying in J-3s, C-152s, C-172s just around a quiet practice area out of a non-controlled airport a landing every month should be fine (3 in 90 days). If you are flying in busy airspace, cross countries, at night, advance airplanes, etc every 1 - 2 weeks is needed.

I fly out of SNA - if you are not flying every week it is going to be too busy, you are going to struggle to get on frequency, and it will only get more difficult as the flight goes on.

 

[Frijolero]

The regs say that you have to have had three landings within the last 90 days to carry passengers. And if you fly at night you have to have made those landings at night. If you have an instrument rating you have to fly more often to maintain your proficiency because you have to fly so many approaches. Depending on the aircraft your flying you can also incur more training requirements and proficiency regs. However not flying often has been shown to increase accidents and incidents. The FAA suggests these requirements as minimums. I think you would be hard pressed to find many pilots that would disagree that every two weeks is a minimum. While the act of flying the airplane is like driving a car, systems managment and procedures decay over time.

To discobolus:

Your dad is somewhat right. Dr's got a bad name in aviation when back in the 60's general aviation boom many doctors began flying. The doctors could afford fast and high performance aircraft, which are much harder to manage. Therefore there were several accidents. The Beechcraft B35 similare to todays B36, except it had a V tail, was actually dubbed "doctor killer." The problem is two fold, doctors usually have an elevated sense of their abitlies and control, and can afford air planes that they don't have enough experience to fly. Being a doctor doesn't make them dangerous, it is usually the fat wallet they are setting on.

To you all who are thinking of getting your license think of what my instructor told me: "When you start your flying career you begin with a full bag of luck, and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill you bag of experience up before you empty your bag of luck." This is true in medicine as well.

At major hubs/cities in areas with nice weather year round you might find the kind of pilots that are flying at least once every two weeks, but I've a hunch that the majority of people holding licenses far away from controlled airspace fly far less than that. The airport I fly out of (grass strip, rural) has about 30-35 small aircraft, and I can tell you that at least half of those don't leave the ground for a third of the year. Hell, some of them haven't left the ground in 10 years. Fact is, most people with privates aren't spending much time in controlled airspace, don't fly at night, and don't fly for at least a few months out of the year. Are these guys marginally less safe? Maybe. But they're far from dangerous. Iain's right on with the once a month landing for the basic stuff. Personally, I'm partial to the J-3's. Nothing beats tooling around in the summer with the door down and the window up. If you've never been in one, you're missing out bigtime. Ratty old rental cessnas can't hold a candle to 'em.


-Frijolero

 

[Doc 2b]

At major hubs/cities in areas with nice weather year round you might find the kind of pilots that are flying at least once every two weeks, but I've a hunch that the majority of people holding licenses far away from controlled airspace fly far less than that. The airport I fly out of (grass strip, rural) has about 30-35 small aircraft, and I can tell you that at least half of those don't leave the ground for a third of the year. Hell, some of them haven't left the ground in 10 years. Fact is, most people with privates aren't spending much time in controlled airspace, don't fly at night, and don't fly for at least a few months out of the year. Are these guys marginally less safe? Maybe. But they're far from dangerous. Iain's right on with the once a month landing for the basic stuff. Personally, I'm partial to the J-3's. Nothing beats tooling around in the summer with the door down and the window up. If you've never been in one, you're missing out bigtime. Ratty old rental cessnas can't hold a candle to 'em.


-Frijolero

I'll have to agree with you on this, I flew a J3 once with this old guy. We went out and met a friend of his on his farm, landed in his front yard. It was great, a stark contrast to shooting an ILS in the dark with a 500 ft ceiling.

This is the best thread ever, I mean hanger flying and talking about medicine...How can you beat that.

 

[Frijolero]

Speaking of landing in random places, did you know that in Montana you can land pretty much wherever you please? Literally, you can legally land on the public roads out there, as long as you provide for adequate traffic control ie. get two buddies on the ground to stop cars. Talk about a sweet commute to work.

-Frijolero

 

[Doc 2b]

Speaking of landing in random places, did you know that in Montana you can land pretty much wherever you please? Literally, you can legally land on the public roads out there, as long as you provide for adequate traffic control ie. get two buddies on the ground to stop cars. Talk about a sweet commute to work.

-Frijolero

I don't think that is just limited to montana. The way the regs read (last time I read them, in 98) you really can land anywhere so long as you don't endanger anyone.

 

[HiddenTruth]

thanks for all your guys' in put--seems like you guys are loving it. So, what is the cost associated with renting a plane, fuel, airport fees.runway fees, etc for a typical leisure ride (like the once/2 weeks you guys described). This is all assuming that you don't own your own plane and just have a pilot's license. And, I'm not saying coast to caost flying--just an hour or two of leisure flying--

Also, you guys talk about how if you don't fly at night or don't fly long distances, it's really not dangerous and you don't need that much experience to be safe--but to me, i'd like to be eventually be able to take my family out on vacation across the states, etc--not just flying for an hr couple times a month--i mean, i guess i am asking is that those of us who aren't full time pilots and do this for a hobby, what is the point of flying for you guys other than actually beign able to travel and having the luxury of doing it anytime? (i would figure that those leisure hobby rides get old after a little while, eh)? Please advise--thanks.

HT

 

[Green912]

Anyone knowledgable about helicopters? One day I WILL own a chopper from this company http://www.rotorway.com/ then I'll really be dangerous!

 

[HiddenTruth]

Anyone knowledgable about helicopters? One day I WILL own a chopper from this company http://www.rotorway.com/ then I'll really be dangerous!

it's a 4-5 month salary dude, that's bearable--

 

[Iain]

For an hour leisure flight you are looking at $70-100 depending on aircraft, and area. You generally just have to rent the aircraft, fuel is included, and most airports do not have fees, the only time I ever paid a fee was at LAX for parking it was $20.

I think many people fly for different reasons. Some just like the mechanics of it, yanking and banking, looking down at the earth - it is just relaxing getting away from the norm. Other like it because of the travel, they can do weekend trips, go places for lunch etc.

It is a lot like people with horses. Some people show, and look all pretty while they ride, others jump, others just go out on trail, others play polo, etc!

 

[kenmc3]

I typically rent a Cessna 172 for $74 an hour in Florida (including fuel). For the type of flying most private pilots perform it is probably a good idea to fly at least once a month. Most pilots I know that don?t own their own aircraft average that much flying a month. In order to make owning an aircraft cost efficient you should fly it around 100 hours a year.

Now, incorporating aviation into medicine: I know a surgeon who owns a Moony and covers for a friend of his a few times a year. This friend lives about 3 hours away by car (45 min in a Moony). The amount the surgeon bills during those couple visits a year basically pays for his aircraft (making it a business expense at the same time). You can also sign up for Angle Flight where you volunteer to fly patients around, which is a great way to build hours.

On to helicopters: getting licensed costs around $10,000 (compare that to $3500 for a fixed-wing license). Which is why most helicopter pilots in this world received their training from Uncle Sam. Also, flying helicopters and owning them is very expensive due to steep maintenance and fuel costs.

 

[MoosePilot]

Pretty much everything has been covered here.

You can get your pilot's license in 40ish hours if you go straight through at an organized school. That's how I did it when I was in college, then I've added ratings through the military.

Remember that not being complacent, keeping your own mortality and fallibility in mind, is a survival quality in aviation. Just because you're an extremely competent "x" doesn't have anything to do with "y". That's one of the big downfalls of docs in aviation (and pilots in driving cars, etc.).

 

[Frijolero]

I typically rent a Cessna 172 for $74 an hour in Florida (including fuel). For the type of flying most private pilots perform it is probably a good idea to fly at least once a month. Most pilots I know that don?t own their own aircraft average that much flying a month. In order to make owning an aircraft cost efficient you should fly it around 100 hours a year.

Now, incorporating aviation into medicine: I know a surgeon who owns a Moony and covers for a friend of his a few times a year. This friend lives about 3 hours away by car (45 min in a Moony). The amount the surgeon bills during those couple visits a year basically pays for his aircraft (making it a business expense at the same time). You can also sign up for Angle Flight where you volunteer to fly patients around, which is a great way to build hours.

On to helicopters: getting licensed costs around $10,000 (compare that to $3500 for a fixed-wing license). Which is why most helicopter pilots in this world received their training from Uncle Sam. Also, flying helicopters and owning them is very expensive due to steep maintenance and fuel costs.

Dude, no way. 100 hours a year to be cost effective? I know we spend far less than $7,400 a year in fuel, maintenance, hangar rental, insurance, etc. And the airplane holds, if not builds its value. It all depends on what your flying/buying and where, but I think the number would be closer to half that. Hangar fees out in this neck of the woods (Ohio) are about $130/month, We probably spend about $300 for gas a year, and the maintenance works out to a hundred or so each year. Add another couple hundred for insurance. Throw in a $10k engine rebuild every other decade and a $10k recover/inspection then as well. This is all to fly low and slow in an old ragwing. Figure on some more cash if you've got electronics, want to go fast, etc. It's not cheap, but it definitely works out to a lot less than $7,400 a year. Truthfully, it's not that much more expensive than owning a car. And in the end you have an airplane that you can trust a bit more, you know nobody has landed hard or treated poorly. If you buy into an airplane with one or two others you can make it even more cost effective. Rent or own, it doesn't matter, the more the merrier either way you choose to go. To the OP, good luck getting that license.

-Frijolero

 

[Medpilot]

I flew a J3 once with this old guy. We went out and met a friend of his on his farm, landed in his front yard. It was great, a stark contrast to shooting an ILS in the dark with a 500 ft ceiling.

This is the best thread ever, I mean hanger flying and talking about medicine...How can you beat that.

No kidding. All we need now is for someone to add sports and camping to the thread to make it complete.

I'm right in there with Frijolero. I fly out of a grass strip that nobody uses unless they live on it. My dad runs an aircraft restoration business out there. Right now he's got two L-3's in the works. I always remind him that there will be two of them and you can only fly one at a time... so I should get to fly the one left on the ground. It never convinces him though.

I'm another guy that got his licence in high school when studying didn't matter. I think it would be a huge study load and cost load increase if you tried it while in med-school.

Anyone in this thread looking at possibly rural or international medicine? I think this is one place in medicine where a licence will come in very handy.

 

[joseph2707]

I don't have a pilot license but I have an endorsement -- I can't take passengers but I can fly by myself.

I have about 70 hours but don't have the time or the energy to fly until I have a spot in a school. My advise is to start immediately. Take 1 or 2 lessons a week for a year. By the end of the year you will be pretty competent and can test for your license.

You would not believe the amount of studying necessary to fly. You won't believe it. BUT DO IT ANYWAY!

 

[Doc 2b]

No kidding. All we need now is for someone to add sports and camping to the thread to make it complete.

I'm right in there with Frijolero. I fly out of a grass strip that nobody uses unless they live on it. My dad runs an aircraft restoration business out there. Right now he's got two L-3's in the works. I always remind him that there will be two of them and you can only fly one at a time... so I should get to fly the one left on the ground. It never convinces him though.

I'm another guy that got his licence in high school when studying didn't matter. I think it would be a huge study load and cost load increase if you tried it while in med-school.

Anyone in this thread looking at possibly rural or international medicine? I think this is one place in medicine where a licence will come in very handy.

noticed your in israel, what are you majoring in, how'd you end up there, that has to be a story?

 

[Medpilot]

I ask myself that all the time.

It's the Ben Gurion and Columbia University program for international medicine. It consists of about 100 American and Canadian med-students. We study medicine with an emphasis on 3rd world disease, globaliztion, and disaster relief. The big idea is that after a few years of globetrotting we can practice in refugee camps and whatnot effectively. That's also where getting the pilot's licence comes in. We take the US boards too, so almost all of the past grads are working in the States.

As for me, I wanted to travel while I learned medicine. I don't think I have the fortitude to stay in one place for the 4 years straight. Besides it can't hurt my shot at an emergency med residency with all the fighting going on and the way people drive here.

 

[underAchiever]

If you wanted to fly your family to different places it would be a good idea to be instrument rated, specially if you are going to different/far locations. Private pilot is great for personal fun, but you can only fly in fair weather and you do not want to get into clouds you do not know how to get out of. Look at what happened to Kennedy. The instrument rating on the other hand, could end up costing up to 10-20 thousand dollars. it's expensive and time consuming but without it you really are an amateur.

 

[Doc 2b]

If you wanted to fly your family to different places it would be a good idea to be instrument rated, specially if you are going to different/far locations. Private pilot is great for personal fun, but you can only fly in fair weather and you do not want to get into clouds you do not know how to get out of. Look at what happened to Kennedy. The instrument rating on the other hand, could end up costing up to 10-20 thousand dollars. it's expensive and time consuming but without it you really are an amateur.

I agree with your point about travel and the need for and instrument ticket. But I find your language about private pilots being amateur somewhat offensive. I know it is not meant like that, but I and the people that I fly with don't just treat flying like a painting hobby or something. We treat it respectfully and professionally. I just found that word odd, and doesn't give the amount of effort put forth to be a compitent private pilot justice.

 

[underAchiever]

I agree with your point about travel and the need for and instrument ticket. But I find your language about private pilots being amateur somewhat offensive. I know it is not meant like that, but I and the people that I fly with don't just treat flying like a painting hobby or something. We treat it respectfully and professionally. I just found that word odd, and doesn't give the amount of effort put forth to be a compitent private pilot justice.

You should take no offense for none was intended. Sometimes words mean different things to different people. When I say "amateur" I do so in the original sense of the word, meaning somebody who loves what he does. If I had used "dilettante" instead I would consider that offensive. Private pilot is however the lowest rating that allows you to fly other people, and obviously there are levels of ability above that, which I recommend. Flying is like medicine, both have an extremely low margin for error and do not forgive mistakes because lives are at stake. And in neither field do you want to go in with the lowest level of knowledge and ability.
I know the work and level of professionalism that goes into it, I am still working on my private license and I have friends working on other ratings. Every rating has it's own merits and is an accomplishment by itself.
By the way, somebody could come along and say you are being offensive to painters with your comment about painting as a hobby. So you see how this goes, words can let us down even when we don't intend anything bad by it.
And my intentions were good.
Best of luck

 

[Doc 2b]

By the way, somebody could come along and say you are being offensive to painters with your comment about painting as a hobby.
Best of luck

none taken, good luck with your license!

 

[MoosePilot]

I agree with your point about travel and the need for and instrument ticket. But I find your language about private pilots being amateur somewhat offensive. I know it is not meant like that, but I and the people that I fly with don't just treat flying like a painting hobby or something. We treat it respectfully and professionally. I just found that word odd, and doesn't give the amount of effort put forth to be a compitent private pilot justice.

Well, an instrument pilot is an amateur, too. A commercial rated pilot is the first who is not amateur, by definition.