Doctor cheating warnings expand to dermatology

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what's there to memorize? aren't all the answers biopsy and steroids???
 
molmol said:
what's there to memorize? aren't all the answers biopsy and steroids???
Click to expand...

That reminds me of the joke:

"Derm residency in 10 seconds:
If it's wet, dry it. If it's dry, wet it.
If they're on steroids, stop them. If they're not, start them.
When in doubt, biopsy."

That CNN article says that the ABD exam has a store of 300 questions that are used. Really? My EM written had 330 questions, and those are rotated all around (which, for reasons I shall not elucidate, I know occurs). And, considering all the weird rashes I see in the ED, I would guess without knowing that there could be 1000 or more regular questions.

Contrast that with the 60K questions USMLE says they have in the repository for step I - or, at least, when I took it 12 years ago, it was 60K. Maybe 75K questions now?
 
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Apollyon said:
That reminds me of the joke:

"Derm residency in 10 seconds:
If it's wet, dry it. If it's dry, wet it.
If they're on steroids, stop them. If they're not, start them.
When in doubt, biopsy."

That CNN article says that the ABD exam has a store of 300 questions that are used. Really? My EM written had 330 questions, and those are rotated all around (which, for reasons I shall not elucidate, I know occurs). And, considering all the weird rashes I see in the ED, I would guess without knowing that there could be 1000 or more regular questions.

Contrast that with the 60K questions USMLE says they have in the repository for step I - or, at least, when I took it 12 years ago, it was 60K. Maybe 75K questions now?
Click to expand...

60,000 questions? This document (http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/Press/files/pdffiles/2011/Suliman, Eihab et al. Indictment.pdf), says the NBME has 5,000 questions at any one time (p. 5)
 
b-real said:
60,000 questions? This document (http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/Press/files/pdffiles/2011/Suliman, Eihab et al. Indictment.pdf), says the NBME has 5,000 questions at any one time (p. 5)
Click to expand...

It was what they published back at the turn of the millennium. Since that crap had no relevance for me anymore, I don't have the hard copy. The written stuff also said something about each question costing around $500, from writing, to testing, to validating.

Who'd'athunk it? Here they are, lying to us! Only 5K!

(At the same time, I remember 2 questions from Step II, which asked the identical thing - but, one was words, and the other was a diagram - "Where would the most likely location be?" - and it was the same location!)
 
Apollyon said:
That reminds me of the joke:
That CNN article says that the ABD exam has a store of 300 questions that are used. Really? My EM written had 330 questions, and those are rotated all around (which, for reasons I shall not elucidate, I know occurs). And, considering all the weird rashes I see in the ED, I would guess without knowing that there could be 1000 or more regular questions.

Contrast that with the 60K questions USMLE says they have in the repository for step I - or, at least, when I took it 12 years ago, it was 60K. Maybe 75K questions now?
Click to expand...

FYI, the 300 questions referred to in this article means the derm board exam has about 300 questions. It does not mean that they draw from a bank of 300 questions. I'd recommend reading more carefully before criticizing.
 
I am not a resident yet so I cannot fully comment on how "widespread" the use of these airplane notes are but from my experience at two institutions and interviews at several more, I have a hard time believing that residents are just kicking back for 3 years and then reading the airplane notes last minute to be able to pass the boards. Instead, I see residents pooring over Bolognia, Andrews and question banks. I could be wrong, but this whole vindication of physicians as cheaters seems to be nothing more than a journalist spewing venom at a bunch of highly trained people just so he/she can make a name for themself. What else can you expect from a profession that regularly takes one data point (of their choosing) and extrapolates an entire conclusion from it? I think I will wait and see how bad this "cheating" really is before I believe a bunch of unscientific journalist bums whose hardest exam they ever took was their biology 100 final in college which they probably cheated on.
 
starbuckscoffee said:
FYI, the 300 questions referred to in this article means the derm board exam has about 300 questions. It does not mean that they draw from a bank of 300 questions. I'd recommend reading more carefully before criticizing.
Click to expand...

Zing. True, though.

The exam was even longer just a few years ago when I took it. This story has been blown way out of proportion.
 
Cheating huh? Why not just make it an appropriate test? My guess is that 80% of practicing academic dermatologists 10 yrs out of residency couldn't pass the test, so it isn't a valuable tool for assessing one's ability to practice in the field. Galderma is essentially taking people's knowledge from previous board exams so if they are going to start somewhere, that seems more practical than a bunch of residents remembering questions and passing off their notes to former colleagues.

For $2,500, you think they could pay a few more question writers to come up with a bigger bank of questions and kodachromes.
 
starbuckscoffee said:
FYI, the 300 questions referred to in this article means the derm board exam has about 300 questions. It does not mean that they draw from a bank of 300 questions. I'd recommend reading more carefully before criticizing.
Click to expand...

Reading more carefully?

Here is what was written: "The dermatology board scrambles the approximately 300 questions from test to test to make it more difficult to memorize them." Worded poorly? If I read that again, I would draw the same conclusion, with the same amount of care. At the same time, I don't expect much from "journalists".

Moreover, criticizing? Really? No, criticism would be calling you a gunner or brown-noser or lazy or less than hardworking, based on stereotypes. However, I have no basis for that, except for one snotty, "zing-worthy" comment. In your defense, I've known about 10 dermatologists, and, ranging from my experience with each one, the ones I've known peripherally were really nice people, and the ones I've seen in consultation have been absolute superstars - bar none. That's from Mt. Sinai, Downstate, and Duke, and in the community.

Or does this make you cringe and feel criticized?

12+stereotypes+panel+09.jpg
 
Apollyon said:
Reading more carefully?

Here is what was written: "The dermatology board scrambles the approximately 300 questions from test to test to make it more difficult to memorize them." Worded poorly? If I read that again, I would draw the same conclusion, with the same amount of care.
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You realize that the very next sentence in the article points out that only 20% of the questions are repeats from previous years, right? Which would essentially debunk everything you've tried to argue in this thread.

The questions are scrambled - i.e. the order of questions and multiple choice answers are different from test form to test form, to prevent people from getting together and trying to compile the questions from memory later on. Nowhere does the article imply that the same 300 questions are used from year to year; in fact, the authors make a point to state that there are fewer repeat questions on the derm boards than on the radiology boards.

Asinine CNN Article said:
The dermatology board scrambles the approximately 300 questions from test to test to make it more difficult to memorize them. About 20% of the questions each year are recycled from old tests, compared with about 50% for the written exam in radiology.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
As I said, poorly written. However, I see now that SDN self-professed dermies are a gentle, easily offended lot. I offer you profuse thanks and gratitude for not "sinking to (my) level". I am happy that you think you, as representative of a specialty, are above another. That is collegial and polite. I just won't ask what you say about surgeons and IM docs, or, the horror - plastic surgeons! Don't get the vapors!
 
N-Surge said:
The allegation of cheating ... smears the entire specialty with a broad and unjustified brush.
American College of Radiology

Why is this tack in there?
Click to expand...

The original CNN story was involving cheating on the American Board of Radiology exam: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/13/health/prescription-for-cheating/index.html. That quote was a response to that story.

This story is just a followup story from that one, that the cheating "scandal" (and I use that term loosely) has now expanded to dermatology: http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/03/health/doctor-cheating-dermatology/index.html
 
When I took my derm boards I wrote all the answers on my penis in permanent marker. I was able to get Bolognia and half of Andrews on there. I picked syphilis for most of my answers. And I passed!
 
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