Doctors (radiology residents) cheated on exams

[organdonor]

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CNN has an exclusive story about the use of "recall exams" in radiology residency programs. They have an interview with a military radiologist who didn't use them, failed what I assume to be the radiology board certification exam, and then was coerced to use them. He complained to the American Board of Radiology who then conducted an investigation that shows widespread use of recall exams even though the test is prefaced by a confidentiality agreement similar to the one before the MCAT or NBME exams. Programs seem reluctant to punish anyone for actually using them although many have now sent out warnings to their residents not to use them.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/13/health/prescription-for-cheating/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

 

[CuttingCorneas]

How different is this from getting previous exams from professors in undergrad? Everyone does it, and some questions are often repeated. But students are still encouraged to use them.

 

[Spatula]

How different is this from getting previous exams from professors in undergrad? Everyone does it, and some questions are often repeated. But students are still encouraged to use them.

Everyone does it is a terrible excuse. In Nazi Germany "everyone" supported Hitler.

 

[organdonor]

I don't know if I would categorize this as cheating, but it is surely a violation of the confidentiality agreement of the test. I see the view that it is similar to having past exams but hopefully the lecturers consent to that. At least at my medical school they do. They know this and plan accordingly: concepts get repeated but rarely do actual questions.

 

[deleted307836]

Wow, interesting article. Props to CNN. /edit - on second review, this does seem to be more sensationalism than true investigative work.

How different is this from getting previous exams from professors in undergrad? Everyone does it, and some questions are often repeated. But students are still encouraged to use them.

I don't think it's fair to compare school tests to standardized exams used for certification and licensure purposes... especially if questions are reused in the latter, it's important to maintain their integrity. There is a reason why the rule of not sharing questions on standardized exams like the MCAT is strictly enforced.

 

[RedSHIFT]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/13/health/prescription-for-cheating/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

 

[drizzt3117]

The boards are being changed to a non-oral board system starting next year, what were allegedly being circulated were the topics of oral exam qs, along with information to study about them which the people making the guides looked up.

CNN has an exclusive story about the use of "recall exams" in radiology residency programs. They have an interview with a military radiologist who didn't use them, failed what I assume to be the radiology board certification exam, and then was coerced to use them. He complained to the American Board of Radiology who then conducted an investigation that shows widespread use of recall exams even though the test is prefaced by a confidentiality agreement similar to the one before the MCAT or NBME exams. Programs seem reluctant to punish anyone for actually using them although many have now sent out warnings to their residents not to use them.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/13/health/prescription-for-cheating/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

 

[TAWS]

Dr. Gary Becker, executive director of the American Board of Radiology (ABR):
"He said "accumulating and studying from lists of questions on prior examinations constitutes unauthorized access, is inappropriate, unnecessary, intolerable and illegal."

Can someone explain to me how this is illegal? It might be unethical but wonder what Dr. Becker meant.

 

[jdh71]

Dr. Gary Becker, executive director of the American Board of Radiology (ABR):
"He said "accumulating and studying from lists of questions on prior examinations constitutes unauthorized access, is inappropriate, unnecessary, intolerable and illegal."

Can someone explain to me how this is illegal? It might be unethical but wonder what Dr. Becker meant.

They'd probably argue they own the intellectual rights (ie property) to specific questions if they are in their exam, and using the same question would be using their property. Kind of like using software not licensed to you.

 

[235009]

The boards are being changed to a non-oral board system starting next year, what were allegedly being circulated were the topics of oral exam qs, along with information to study about them which the people making the guides looked up.

if you actually read the article you'd know that what you just said is not true.

there's even a link to a pdf of one of these "recall" sheets with specific MCQs and answers. It says in the article that residents were memorizing questions on the boards and getting together later to compile them.

 

[CuttingCorneas]

I don't think it's fair to compare school tests to standardized exams used for certification and licensure purposes... especially if questions are reused in the latter, it's important to maintain their integrity. There is a reason why the rule of not sharing questions on standardized exams like the MCAT is strictly enforced.

I think what I'm saying is that using old exam questions is using old exam questions, no matter what. Either way you look at it, it's still cheating, yet it's viewed as acceptable on the smaller scale. So what makes this form of cheating (i.e. for board purposes) so inherently wrong? I'm not disagreeing that certification exams need to be taken seriously; in fact, I very strongly believe they do. But by making one okay, you're kind of putting forth the idea that the other's okay as well.

 

[copes]

I think it is very easy to take the high road on this issue. But it would be interesting to hear from more residents if they feel like using "recalls" is cheating or provide an unfair advantage. The whole issue may be overblown and the guy who was dismissed from the radiology program certainly had a lot to be angry about. Even the attendings/department chairs quoted seemed hesitant to call using the recalls as cheating. It's hard enough taking tests in medical school without old questions. Imagine taking the step 1 without uworld, or 5 years of residency material without a guideline of what to study. Yes, technically and theoretically, using the recalls is cheating, but what is the consensus in practice?

 

[drizzt3117]

if you actually read the article you'd know that what you just said is not true.

there's even a link to a pdf of one of these "recall" sheets with specific MCQs and answers. It says in the article that residents were memorizing questions on the boards and getting together later to compile them.

The boards in radiology are an oral exam. There are no multiple choice questions. If you're talking about the physics boards, then perhaps that's true. In any case, both are being integrated into one board exam given during the PGY-4 year of residency.

 

[235009]

I think what I'm saying is that using old exam questions is using old exam questions, no matter what.

if a professor gives you old exam questions to use its not the same as memorizing and reproducing exam questions after you sign an agreement saying that you won't do that.

this is not exclusive to radiology and if we want to point fingers then everyone should stop using Uworld as well

again, not the same thing! UWorld does not reproduce old board questions, they make their own.

 

[boggvir]

I think it is very easy to take the high road on this issue. But it would be interesting to hear from more residents if they feel like using "recalls" is cheating or provide an unfair advantage. The whole issue may be overblown and the guy who was dismissed from the radiology program certainly had a lot to be angry about. Even the attendings/department chairs quoted seemed hesitant to call using the recalls as cheating. It's hard enough taking tests in medical school without old questions. Imagine taking the step 1 without uworld, or 5 years of residency material without a guideline of what to study. Yes, technically and theoretically, using the recalls is cheating, but what is the consensus in practice?

Well the consensus in other fields is that it's cheating and your scores are canceled..

 

[drizzt3117]

if a professor gives you old exam questions to use its not the same as memorizing and reproducing exam questions after you sign an agreement saying that you won't do that.



again, not the same thing! UWorld does not reproduce old board questions, they make their own.

First aid, a student to student guide... Every review book reproduces exam questions/concepts, they just don't advertise as such. I had qs on UWorld for step 1/2 that were nearly verbatim from the real test, coincidence, probably.

 

[boggvir]

First aid, a student to student guide... Every review book reproduces exam questions/concepts, they just don't advertise as such. I had qs on UWorld for step 1/2 that were nearly verbatim from the real test, coincidence, probably.

If they took the exam and reproduced the exact question, they would be sued. They either A) legally buy questions that the board/AAMC decides should be released (or if its the same company, it's officially sanctioned), or B) make up their own questions that test the same concepts -- and it's likely that many of them would be similar.

If you and a few of your friends were to remember a bunch of questions verbatim from your Step I, and make a document of it to distribute to others, I would guarantee you that you would be in a LOT of trouble.

 

[drizzt3117]

If they took the exam and reproduced the exact question, they would be sued. They either A) legally buy questions that the board/AAMC decides should be released (or if its the same company, it's officially sanctioned), or B) make up their own questions that test the same concepts -- and it's likely that many of them would be similar.

If you and a few of your friends were to remember a bunch of questions verbatim from your Step I, and make a document of it to distribute to others, I would guarantee you that you would be in a LOT of trouble.

The radiology boards are an ORAL exam. The scenarios are the same, but examiners can ask whatever they want about the images in sequence. I guarantee people aren't reproducing the questions verbatim because they aren't seeing the questions verbatim. Different examiners can ask different questions about the same clinical case. That's one of the reasons they're changing the boards, to make it more standardized.

If you're talking about the physics exam, then maybe, but I don't know about you, but I couldn't reproduce even 1 question verbatim (with all of the answer choices) from my step 1; I could remember broad concepts or the thrust of a question, but certainly not the whole questions. It's not like these people were sent in to just memorize the test; they're taking the boards, meaning their concentration is going to be answering the questions.

 

[235009]

The radiology boards are an ORAL exam. The scenarios are the same, but examiners can ask whatever they want about the images in sequence

from the CNN article:
"residents have been required to pass two written exams and an intensive oral test during five years of residency training"

from wikipedia:
"The radiology resident must pass a medical physics board exam during training covering the science, technology and radiobiology of ultrasound, CTs, x-rays, nuclear medicine and MRI. Near the completion of residency, the radiologist in training may be deemed eligible to "sit for the Boards", take the written and oral board examinations administered by the American Board of Radiology (ABR)."

 

[drizzt3117]

from the CNN article:
"residents have been required to pass two written exams and an intensive oral test during five years of residency training"

from wikipedia:
"The radiology resident must pass a medical physics board exam during training covering the science, technology and radiobiology of ultrasound, CTs, x-rays, nuclear medicine and MRI. Near the completion of residency, the radiologist in training may be deemed eligible to "sit for the Boards", take the written and oral board examinations administered by the American Board of Radiology (ABR)."

There's a small written component to the boards, but if you ask any current or former radiology residency about the boards, they're talking about the ABR oral boards in Louisville.

 

[MKA55]

other considerations aside, its interesting that the guy who finds such activity "morally objectionable and abhorrent" was reprimanded multiple times by the military and kicked out of the residency program...makes him seem like a somewhat less than impeccable/reliable witness. I'm not disputing that such cheating occurs, or the veracity of CNN's reporting, but whenever I see a caveat like that I try to think twice about the source it's coming from

 

[TAWS]

I remember reading Princeton Review hires people to take the SATs and have them try to remember the questions so they can adjust their books accordingly. Wouldn't this be considered cheating?

I also find it ridiculous that they can "copyright" test questions, which are just facts. If they really wanted to prevent this sort of cheating, they should make sure each new test has completely new questions. Why are testmakers so lazy and just re-use old questions?

 

[Shnurek]

Why are testmakers so lazy and just re-use old questions?

👍👍👍 There lies the real problem.

 

[csmittyB]

Well the consensus in other fields is that it's cheating and your scores are canceled..

Wow. How did I not hear about this?

 

[DrVanNostran]

Good ole Radiologists 😀

 

[copes]

Well the consensus in other fields is that it's cheating and your scores are canceled..

Which fields? I did see a comment by a resident who seemed disgruntled about the use of recalls because his program did not have a good set of them. But it seems like the use of recalls is the way to study for boards in rads.

dergon
I am radiologist who has been in practice for 15 years. I took the Kaplan SAT prep course, I took (and later taught) the Kaplan MCAT course. And yes, I and every radiology resident I know, used a bank of old question "recalls" to prepare for the written portion of the board certification exam. My education was 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, 5 years of a radiology residency, and an additional year of subspecialty fellowship. In addition to the routine work, study, and hands on "at the alternator" work of radiology training, I estimate that I have spent literally hundreds to thousands of hours in exam preparation study. This is the norm for people who want to become radiologists. We board certified radiolgists are well trained professionals, deeply conscientious and QUALIFIED. I regret the words of the ABR and the sensationalistic tone to CNN reporting as they do a disservice to the community.

AuntMinnie
Given the large and ever expanding amount of information radiology residents have to review and retain and the relatively limited time to achieve that goal, the only way to pass and get that written test out of the way (so you can prepare for the real challnge- the oral test), is to review old tets.
I took my written boards in radiology 25 years ago, we reviewed old test questions at that time as well, no one even remotely considered that as cheating, just a nuisance,very many hours of pretty boring, uninspiring activity.
All the radiologists you interviewed were residents at one time, they most likely did the same and now they pretend like this whole issue is news to them.
The ABR is at fault for recycling many old questions, instead of spending the time and effort in preparing new questions each year.
Your report was poorly researched, sensational and misleading.

BWC13
I am a radiologist and completely agree with many of the other radiologist postings in response to this story. This was a poorly researched and Dr. Webb was apparently poorly vetted by CNN journalists in regards to his status as a "whistleblower." AC and his crew seem to imply that he was released from the his residency program as a sexual harrasser in response to his blowing the whistle on his Army residency. I suspect that he was first punished for unrelated unprofessional behavior and retaliated by alerting CNN to what he hoped would come across as a scandalous story for the military. CNN apparently took the bait hook, line and sinker. The use of recalls to study for board exams is no scandal. For the ABR president to appear shocked that a residency program was using recalls is at best completely uninformed, at worst, hypocritical and disengenuous. The American Journal of Roentgenology, the flagship journal of U.S. radiologists published an article in 2008 (AJR 2008:191:954-961) which surveyed the vast majority of radiololgy residencies in the U.S. The survey showed that the vast majority of most residents in most U.S. radiology residencies used recall questions as a substantial component of their written board preparation... so this is not breaking news or a scandal... Apparently Dr. Becker and Dr. Webb don't read the AJR and CNN doesn't know how to look up facts on Google Scholar before they run a story. Shame on you Anderson Cooper and your sloppy, sensationalistic journalism. I'll turn the channel back to MSNBC.

 

[Law2Doc]

...


again, not the same thing! UWorld does not reproduce old board questions, they make their own.

um no, false. Both World and Kaplan have been paying people to recall questions for years. It's not really an accident that there are very similar questions in those banks to the real thing. Do you seriously think they could make up questions randomly out of the infinite amount of fair game questions and get some reasonable facsimile to the exam? Not only that, but Kaplan and Princeton review have done the same thing in their SAT and MCAT preps, BarBri does the same thing in it's law bar exam preps, all the absite review tests do the same kind of recall for their surgery board prep question books. So if this is cheating, we are a nation of cheaters.

But why is this cheating exactly? you don't come out of a test with any answers, you just know approximately what was asked. The testers are free to change questions as much as they want. That they don't is lazy. That is the crux of the new ABR policy. They are switching to a computer based multiple choice board exam, and don't want to be obligated to keep making up new questions. That they make a policy that you are not allowed to tell others what is asked means if you tell someone what you saw on the test, you have violated the policy, and are liable for whatever punishment the ABR imposes. But that isn't "cheating". In fact, studying for tests from old tests is a tried and true method. It doesn't really matter where you learn the information, the point is that you learn the information.

The ABR is allowing this accuser to have his day on CNN because they don't really care -- they already switched to a "no recall" policy months ago. It serves them well to label this as cheating, because it will dissuade people from sharing questions, and allow them to be lazy and not make up many new ones. But it will also do two things You don't want (1) it will mean people waste time with a lot of lower yield information in preparing for their boards and won't know as much of what the board deems important, and (2) it will benefit the less scrupulous doctors/programs who continue to take the risk and use recalls. Basically this move encourages laziness by the ABR, creates less educated radiologists, and whittles some of the more ethical radiologists out. Strong work.

 

[Sheldor]

um no, false. Both World and Kaplan have been paying people to recall questions for years. It's not really an accident that there are very similar questions in those banks to the real thing. Do you seriously think they could make up questions randomly out of the infinite amount of fair game questions and get some reasonable facsimile to the exam? Not only that, but Kaplan and Princeton review have done the same thing in their SAT and MCAT preps, BarBri does the same thing in it's law bar exam preps, all the absite review tests do the same kind of recall for their surgery board prep question books. So if this is cheating, we are a nation of cheaters.

But why is this cheating exactly? you don't come out of a test with any answers, you just know approximately what was asked. The testers are free to change questions as much as they want. That they don't is lazy. That is the crux of the new ABR policy. They are switching to a computer based multiple choice board exam, and don't want to be obligated to keep making up new questions. That they make a policy that you are not allowed to tell others what is asked means if you tell someone what you saw on the test, you have violated the policy, and are liable for whatever punishment the ABR imposes. But that isn't "cheating". In fact, studying for tests from old tests is a tried and true method. It doesn't really matter where you learn the information, the point is that you learn the information.

The ABR is allowing this accuser to have his day on CNN because they don't really care -- they already switched to a "no recall" policy months ago. It serves them well to label this as cheating, because it will dissuade people from sharing questions, and allow them to be lazy and not make up many new ones. But it will also do two things You don't want (1) it will mean people waste time with a lot of lower yield information in preparing for their boards and won't know as much of what the board deems important, and (2) it will benefit the less scrupulous doctors/programs who continue to take the risk and use recalls. Basically this move encourages laziness by the ABR, creates less educated radiologists, and whittles some of the more ethical radiologists out. Strong work.

Well said!

 

[pkwraith]

Everyone does it is a terrible excuse. In Nazi Germany "everyone" supported Hitler.

Really, Godwin this thread already?

Nazism is an appropriate analogy for an arguable appropriateness of test prep material?

 

[Law2Doc]

I remember reading Princeton Review hires people to take the SATs and have them try to remember the questions so they can adjust their books accordingly. Wouldn't this be considered cheating?

I also find it ridiculous that they can "copyright" test questions, which are just facts. If they really wanted to prevent this sort of cheating, they should make sure each new test has completely new questions. Why are testmakers so lazy and just re-use old questions?

Exactly. If you think Kaplan, TPR, etc arent shaking in their boots, let alone virtually every specialty which uses multiple choice board or inservice exams, you are missing the big picture. This whole prep test industry is based on providing a reasonable facsimile of the test questions, and they do this by debriefing and even paying people to tell them what they saw on the test. So taking a prep course, based on these CNN claims is cheating. Using a qbank is certainly cheating. Studying from old tests is cheating. Having profs tell you that X "is asked a lot on the boards" during lectures is now also cheating. I would suggest that this isn't cheating, its the essence of learning. You are learning material the boards want you to learn. If they didn't care about you knowing that material, they wouldn't have tested on it in the past. You aren't going in and memorizing 1-a, 2-b, 3 -a, 4-c. You can't try to do that when you have thousands of old questions to work with and when only a minority of them will be repeats. So you are learning the actual answers to actual questions the board has deemed high yield. We WANT doctors to do this. We don't want them to spend hours on the stuff the board doesn't even find important, and thus be LESS informed on the things that actually are important.

Again, this isn't really a radiology issue, although the CNN story used some whining malcontent's claims to attack radiology, and the ABR, which had apparently recently switched its format anyhow, didn't work hard to defend themselves. It can (and likely will) impact every specialty that uses board prep materials, as well as all Step 1-3 materials which provide realistic board questions (qbanks). Because looking at those (recall based materials) is apparently cheating.🙄

 

[FiremedicMike]

Exactly. If you think Kaplan, TPR, etc arent shaking in their boots, let alone virtually every specialty which uses multiple choice board or inservice exams, you are missing the big picture. This whole prep test industry is based on providing a reasonable facsimile of the test questions, and they do this by debriefing and even paying people to tell them what they saw on the test. So taking a prep course, based on these CNN claims is cheating. Using a qbank is certainly cheating. Studying from old tests is cheating. Having profs tell you that X "is asked a lot on the boards" during lectures is now also cheating. I would suggest that this isn't cheating, its the essence of learning. You are learning material the boards want you to learn. If they didn't care about you knowing that material, they wouldn't have tested on it in the past. You aren't going in and memorizing 1-a, 2-b, 3 -a, 4-c. You cIan't try to do that when you have thousands of old questions to work with and when only a minority of them will be repeats. So you are learning the actual answers to actual questions the board has deemed high yield. We WANT doctors to do this. We don't want them to spend hours on the stuff the board doesn't even find important, and thus be LESS informed on the things that actually are important.

Again, this isn't really a radiology issue, although the CNN story used some whining malcontent's claims to attack radiology, and the ABR, which had apparently recently switched its format anyhow, didn't work hard to defend themselves. It can (and likely will) impact every specialty that uses board prep materials, as well as all Step 1-3 materials which provide realistic board questions (qbanks). Because looking at those (recall based materials) is apparently cheating.🙄

I agree that this is the essence of learning to take a standardized test, however I vehemently disagree that this is actual learning. It has been suggested several times, and believed by many (myself included) that the ability to take and pass a standardized test is poor at best when determining whether or not an individual actually understands the material that has been taught to them.

I'm not suggesting I have a better answer for testing, as teaching is not my career of choice, I'm merely suggesting that this article scratches the surface as to what the real problem is when looking at our education system as a whole.

 

[valkener]

I wonder if people even watched the video. They said that there was a database on a military computer server that belonged to the residency program with the mentioned questions that students had memorized.

That's a little different than an external, independent organization like Kaplan or TPR doing something questionable.

I agree though that these questions should be changed otherwise the producers come across as lazy and encourage/enable cheating.

 

[valkener]

The use of recalls to study for board exams is no scandal. For the ABR president to appear shocked that a residency program was using recalls is at best completely uninformed, at worst, hypocritical and disengenuous. The American Journal of Roentgenology, the flagship journal of U.S. radiologists published an article in 2008 (AJR 2008:191:954-961) which surveyed the vast majority of radiololgy residencies in the U.S. The survey showed that the vast majority of most residents in most U.S. radiology residencies used recall questions as a substantial component of their written board preparation... so this is not breaking news or a scandal... Apparently Dr. Becker and Dr. Webb don't read the AJR and CNN doesn't know how to look up facts on Google Scholar before they run a story. Shame on you Anderson Cooper and your sloppy, sensationalistic journalism. I'll turn the channel back to MSNBC.

Yes but in this case the residency program itself maintained, updated, and provided students with a database of recalls. That's the key point.

 

[Dr Love]

Everyone does it is a terrible excuse. In Nazi Germany "everyone" supported Hitler.

....and Godwin's law is verified once again.

 

[Dr Love]

I agree that this is the essence of learning to take a standardized test, however I vehemently disagree that this is actual learning. It has been suggested several times, and believed by many (myself included) that the ability to take and pass a standardized test is poor at best when determining whether or not an individual actually understands the material that has been taught to them.

I'm not suggesting I have a better answer for testing, as teaching is not my career of choice, I'm merely suggesting that this article scratches the surface as to what the real problem is when looking at our education system as a whole.

People love to knock on standardized tests because it is the one objective measure of learning still out there, and because most people can't do well on standardized tests because, well, it is standardized. What exactly are these people proposing as the alternative, that you pass based on whether or not a teacher likes you?

 

[Law2Doc]

Yes but in this case the residency program itself maintained, updated, and provided students with a database of recalls. That's the key point.

This is done by many residencies in a multitude if specialties. And it's the basis of every commercial qbank/qbook you will study from for your Steps. And tons of college organizations that maintain old tests in files for it's members. I think the point is this isnt "cheating" by most people's definitions, it's called studying. You select the highest yield information based on what they tested on last year, the year before etc. To do otherwise would mean you would spend an inordinate amount of time on things the profession doesn't even deem test worthy. You don't know what questions will be on the exam. You don't even have the answers to these old questions, just some guys version if what he remembers being asked as a question in a test given in a prior year (ie you or somebody still needs to read up and figure out what the answer is). Basically it's just a table of contents of the highest yield subjects.

 

[235009]

um no, false. Both World and Kaplan have been paying people to recall questions for years. It's not really an accident that there are very similar questions in those banks to the real thing. Do you seriously think they could make up questions randomly out of the infinite amount of fair game questions and get some reasonable facsimile to the exam? Not only that, but Kaplan and Princeton review have done the same thing in their SAT and MCAT preps, BarBri does the same thing in it's law bar exam preps, all the absite review tests do the same kind of recall for their surgery board prep question books. So if this is cheating, we are a nation of cheaters.

i don't doubt that these test prep companies need some way of finding out what is high yield and likely pay students to be informants just like goljan finds out what information is high yield by talking to students. however, one big difference between these and the recalls that jumps out is that these qbanks are available to the public and the nbme (or whichever other standardized test company) can scrutinize them and would certainly have taken legal action if they felt that uworld and kaplan were simply reproducing old questions that students had memorized. on the other hand these recall documents are distributed privately through the residency programs and are exact reproductions of test questions.

 

[HondoCrouch]

I agree that this is the essence of learning to take a standardized test, however I vehemently disagree that this is actual learning. It has been suggested several times, and believed by many (myself included) that the ability to take and pass a standardized test is poor at best when determining whether or not an individual actually understands the material that has been taught to them.

I'm not suggesting I have a better answer for testing, as teaching is not my career of choice, I'm merely suggesting that this article scratches the surface as to what the real problem is when looking at our education system as a whole.

What this terrible article does not adequately explain is that the "real" certification exam for radiology is the Oral Exam which is the mother of all tests and no amount of recalls will help you if you are not a competent radiologist. This ignorant article makes it sound like you memorize a bunch of questions and badabing youre board certified, that aint the case.

The physics exam is no lightweight either, most residents spend 2-4 months of intense studying and if you do not understand the material you will fail, recalls or not.

The written exam, on the other hand, is/was a completely worthless test that tested nothing but esoteric BS and if you didnt have recalls you would be at a severe disadvantage.

It's all irrelevant now as they are changing the format of the certification process.

 

[link2swim06]

The article seems to miss the fact that the whistle blower Dr. Webb was kicked out of residency 6 months after failing this physics boards due to sexual harassment. Seems like someone needed another reason to being kicked out of his residency.

 

[HondoCrouch]

People love to knock on standardized tests because it is the one objective measure of learning still out there, and because most people can't do well on standardized tests because, well, it is standardized. What exactly are these people proposing as the alternative, that you pass based on whether or not a teacher likes you?

The final certification exam for radiology is not a standardized test. It is a 4 hour 10 section oral exam where examiners show you cases and you must walk them through the case and demonstrate safety and competence in all 10 sections.

 

[FIREitUP]

The article seems to miss the fact that the whistle blower Dr. Webb was kicked out of residency 6 months after failing this physics boards due to sexual harassment. Seems like someone needed another reason to being kicked out of his residency.

 

[Dr Love]

The article seems to miss the fact that the whistle blower Dr. Webb was kicked out of residency 6 months after failing this physics boards due to sexual harassment. Seems like someone needed another reason to being kicked out of his residency.

Whether or not Webb is a good person or not, or sexually harassed anyone or not, his allegations were true. It would not be surprising to me if the sexual harassment allegations were hyped up or fabricated solely as an excuse to get him kicked out. That said, I don't think looking at past questions on a test is a major scandal.

 

[valkener]

The article seems to miss the fact that the whistle blower Dr. Webb was kicked out of residency 6 months after failing this physics boards due to sexual harassment. Seems like someone needed another reason to being kicked out of his residency.

Source? This seems to get more and more interesting. If it's true it could be for lots of reasons from being utterly fabricated to what you're suggesting.

 

[FiremedicMike]

My appologies, I was unaware of the depth of the exam in question and will go back to my hole.

 

[link2swim06]

Source? This seems to get more and more interesting. If it's true it could be for lots of reasons from being utterly fabricated to what you're suggesting.

Read through this...people know alot more about this story than published on cnn.

http://www.auntminnie.com/forum/tm.aspx?&m=332901&mpage=2

 

[TheRadiologist]

The boards in radiology are an oral exam. There are no multiple choice questions. If you're talking about the physics boards, then perhaps that's true. In any case, both are being integrated into one board exam given during the PGY-4 year of residency.

Things may have changed recently but in the past,the ABR certification required passing an oral exam after passing two separate written MCQ exams- one in the physics and another in clinical radiology

 

[radspouse]

Law2Doc has been correct in all of his/her assessments of this situation.

In the interest of not repeating myself:

http://forums.sdn.net/showthread.php?t=882205

It's worth reading the reality of the situation. CNN is doing its yellow journalism schtick.

All of you participating in the Kaplan q-bank might want to take note of your cheating by studying previous exam content - including specific questions and answers. 😉 Now, take the "reasonable explanation" you just thought up as to why it's OK for YOU to do that and apply it to all of the residents in all of the specialties that do exactly the same thing you are currently doing with Kaplan's q-bank. 🙂

 

[Montisumo]

thats not cheating... realistically, these guys wont remember anything from that exam anyways... isnt medicine all practice and experience anyways (except for prescriptions)...

Cant believe the guy actually blew up everyones spot on this one...

 

[Food]

thats not cheating... realistically, these guys wont remember anything from that exam anyways... isnt medicine all practice and experience anyways (except for prescriptions)...

Cant believe the guy actually blew up everyones spot on this one...

Man, cheating on the radiology boards is ridiculous. the AAMC has a similar policy against writing down test questions and sharing them - they monitor all these forums, i.e. SDN, Kaplan forums etc to make sure there's no sharing going on. I'm sure the other standardized tests have similar security policies. If you don't like the format of the test or don't agree with it's correlation to good medical practice, that's fine. But then you should be willing to deal with the consequences if you want to actually cheat.

 

[dr zaius]

Man, cheating on the radiology boards is ridiculous. the AAMC has a similar policy against writing down test questions and sharing them - they monitor all these forums, i.e. SDN, Kaplan forums etc to make sure there's no sharing going on. I'm sure the other standardized tests have similar security policies. If you don't like the format of the test or don't agree with it's correlation to good medical practice, that's fine. But then you should be willing to deal with the consequences if you want to actually cheat.

The milmed forum thread on this has been a pretty entertaining read. You ought to check it out.