Dodged a bullet

[Chodan]

I've considered coming back here to post my story in the hope that it might help someone in some way, so I'm doing it.

A little background: After about 5 years of the idea rattling around in the back of my mind I made the decision to go back to school for science classes, take the MCAT, apply to schools, and eventually become a doctor. I think the non-trad story is similar for everyone so I'll skip the details.

I shadowed a neurosurgeon and a neurologist during my studies and the weird thing was that both of them and other doctors I talked to told me to avoid medicine. I had a great life, ran my own successful but modest company and was pursuing the MD to feel like I was helping people in a more personal and "larger" way. They said that going back to school would destroy everything good I've built in my life so far and turn me into a miserable person. These doctors were not miserable themselves (well, one was, but I don't think he was speaking strictly out of bitterness) and I feel were giving me an honest assessment.

Well, I didn't believe them and forged ahead. I did great in my pre-reqs, 3.9 average, did okay on the MCAT, 30Q, not bad for a previous PoliSci major, and applied. I went through two unsuccessful cycles, each with what I thought were great interviews, and decided to not waste any more time with it. Yes, I quit and moved on.

Best decision of my life. I was disappointed in myself at first, sure, because I felt that I was a failure and not good enough, but I eventually got past that nonsense and found ways to accomplish what I was seeking through other means. Also, looking back at what I would have missed as I started a family (child #3 due in October) and grew a business I would have been a fool to trade what I have now for long hours in the library, lab, or hospital.

I've come to grips with the fact that it takes all kinds to make this world better and the willing contribute in different ways. My way will not be as a doctor and I'm okay with that.

I guess the point that I hope will benefit someone is to not bank everything on a successful application. I know the nature of the application cycle and I know how easy it is to focus on that and nothing else, but, in the end, no matter what, you will be okay. Everything will be okay! Take it from a happy non-doctor.

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[xxx2012]

When you say shadow do you mean for credit? How much student loans did you get in your experiment? I know there are great nonmedical jobs, but which one did you land?

Did the medical training help at all still? (I know for some jobs like academia it can)

 

[realmeaning]

Thanks for posting this. I think many of us pre-meds, including myself, get into a sky-is-falling mode. On one hand that's motivating for many of us, but on the other hand, it can do serious psychological damage on the way if we fail in a battle or the whole war.

Glad you made a decision you're happy with, and best of luck to you.

 

[FiremedicMike]

I guess the point that I hope will benefit someone is to not bank everything on a successful application. I know the nature of the application cycle and I know how easy it is to focus on that and nothing else, but, in the end, no matter what, you will be okay. Everything will be okay! Take it from a happy non-doctor.

IMHO, the key to surviving this ordeal is to step back and not sacrifice everything about yourself to make it through this process. I fully intend on continuing to live my life throughout my pre-medical education, because I would never want to not gain admission and look back with regret at all of the things I sacrificed in order to get nowhere.

Sure, I will miss a few ballgames and not buy ALL the toys I want, and I will accrue some student debt, but I refuse to put EVERYTHING on hold for something that might happen.

Would I like to start medical school tomorrow? Well of course! Could I buckle down now, crush my schedule and be done with all of my pre-reqs in 18-24 months (I still have some undergraduate stuff to do), yep! Would I rather spread it out over 3 years or more so that I can maintain a balance between my family, sanity, work, and school, and still end up in the same spot? Well the answer to that, for me, is absolutely yes.

 

[Chodan]

When you say shawdow do you mean for credit? How much student loans did you get in your experiment? I know there are great nonmedical jobs, but which one did you land?

Did the medical training help at all still? (I know for some jobs like academia it can)

I didn't shadow for any credit other than the experience, which was very valuable for my personal statement, interviews, and just overall as a life experience.

I didn't exactly land some other job afterwards, I just kept growing the company I had already started and I still do some Java programming and web work on the side (kind of a good-paying hobby).

The medical training hasn't directly helped me professionally, but it was a great personal experience and has made me a much better businessman and person, in general. The people I met and experiences I had along that path permanently changed me for the better.

Edit: I didn't have any loan debt as I only paid for 2 years worth of pre-reqs, MCAT fees, and application fees, all of which I was able to pay for out of my savings, fortunately.

 

[DrMidlife]

Best advice I ever got:

If there's any career other than medicine in which you could be happy, then for the love of all that's holy, do the other career.

The what if's go both ways. It's not whether you'll want to quit medicine, it's how you'll deal with wanting to quit every other day during the hard parts.

 

[vc7777]

Word.

 

[StarlingForce1]

Best advice I ever got:

If there's any career other than medicine in which you could be happy, then for the love of all that's holy, do the other career.

The what if's go both ways. It's not whether you'll want to quit medicine, it's how you'll deal with wanting to quit every other day during the hard parts.

What if there isn't another career though? At some point, after say, a few unsuccessful application cycles to medical school, would medical schools just look at subsequent applications (should one bulldoze forth with their applications) and say "what is this person doing? They haven't been accepted after 2x, why are they chasing a pipe dream?" I am at a point where I have money saved for up to 5 application cycles, but I am hoping it never comes to that....just trying to get some perspective I guess; I think this post kind of got away from me after I set out to write it..

 

[theseeker4]

What if there isn't another career though? At some point, after say, a few unsuccessful application cycles to medical school, would medical schools just look at subsequent applications (should one bulldoze forth with their applications) and say "what is this person doing? They haven't been accepted after 2x, why are they chasing a pipe dream?" I am at a point where I have money saved for up to 5 application cycles, but I am hoping it never comes to that....just trying to get some perspective I guess; I think this post kind of got away from me after I set out to write it..

The biggest thing you need to have when re-applying is improvement over the previous cycle. If you have no real difference between your first and second and third applications, yeah, schools would probably glance at the new one and throw it away. If you keep improving your research, clinical experience, grades (if necessary), etc. between cycles, your chances increase each time.

 

[DrMidlife]

What if there isn't another career though?

By what effort did you become familiarized with medicine?

Similar effort to investigate other fields would be responsible and add clarity.

For example: those who want to be Paul Farmer, work in Doctors without Borders, etc, could make a great contribution by studying civil engineering, in order to work on the water and roads needed to make relief efforts possible.

For example: those who want to work with returning military and their families could make a great contribution by getting a masters in social work or psychology, or studying physical therapy, or working in career counseling.

For example: those who have a background in accounting or engineering or whatever can support healthcare efforts as volunteers, consultants, board members, fundraisers, writers, etc.

For example: those who are motivated to be a doctor in order to "help people" could work to become job creators by starting a business that can employ semi-skilled workers.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Chodan]

What if there isn't another career though?

Part of the original point I was trying to make is that there are always alternatives. Thinking that there aren't, that it's doctor or nothing, can lead to a lot of anxiety. Maybe being a doctor is the only thing you can imagine right now, but you never know where you'll end up. Embrace the mystery that life never turns out exactly the way you plan. Boy do I sound like a hippy guidance counselor.

 

[Chodan]

For example: those who are motivated to be a doctor in order to "help people" could work to become job creators by starting a business that can employ semi-skilled workers.

Great point! For me, it's this one. I'm involved in charity through contribution and work projects and I receive great satisfaction from caring about my employees and their families.

 

[startingover84]

IMHO, the key to surviving this ordeal is to step back and not sacrifice everything about yourself to make it through this process. I fully intend on continuing to live my life throughout my pre-medical education, because I would never want to not gain admission and look back with regret at all of the things I sacrificed in order to get nowhere.

Sure, I will miss a few ballgames and not buy ALL the toys I want, and I will accrue some student debt, but I refuse to put EVERYTHING on hold for something that might happen.

Would I like to start medical school tomorrow? Well of course! Could I buckle down now, crush my schedule and be done with all of my pre-reqs in 18-24 months (I still have some undergraduate stuff to do), yep! Would I rather spread it out over 3 years or more so that I can maintain a balance between my family, sanity, work, and school, and still end up in the same spot? Well the answer to that, for me, is absolutely yes.

^^This exactly. Something I've learned since college is that life happens. I know it's a cliche thing to state, but it's so true. I plan on having children, supporting my husband in his career choices (if that means moving, selling our house or whatever) and keeping up on my few hobbies (reading, volunteering at the Humane Society) while I focus on my journey to becoming an MD.

 

[StarlingForce1]

Part of the original point I was trying to make is that there are always alternatives. Thinking that there aren't, that it's doctor or nothing, can lead to a lot of anxiety. Maybe being a doctor is the only thing you can imagine right now, but you never know where you'll end up. Embrace the mystery that life never turns out exactly the way you plan. Boy do I sound like a hippy guidance counselor.

Indeed, it is important to keep an open-mind, but when you want something so greatly, isn't it appropriate to relentlessly pursue that until you have exhausted your capability to do so? I feel that it is, at least in my case.

 

[DrMidlife]

Indeed, it is important to keep an open-mind, but when you want something so greatly, isn't it appropriate to relentlessly pursue that until you have exhausted your capability to do so? I feel that it is, at least in my case.

That's exactly what I did, but I had the benefit of a couple decades of extra experience. It's completely beyond me how the average 22 year old premed has any idea yet what they like, what they're good at, how hard they want to work over the long term, etc.

In the end, medicine is a job and people burn out of it, just like any other job. You can't predict the future, but you can do your best to know your own deal before you pick an insanely tough path like medicine. I suggest that it's in your best interest to fill that open mind with possibilities, so that you're making a maximally educated decision to pursue your dream.

Best of luck to you.

 

[StarlingForce1]

That's exactly what I did, but I had the benefit of a couple decades of extra experience. It's completely beyond me how the average 22 year old premed has any idea yet what they like, what they're good at, how hard they want to work over the long term, etc.

In the end, medicine is a job and people burn out of it, just like any other job. You can't predict the future, but you can do your best to know your own deal before you pick an insanely tough path like medicine. I suggest that it's in your best interest to fill that open mind with possibilities, so that you're making a maximally educated decision to pursue your dream.

Best of luck to you.

Well yes, I've taken some "time-off" if you will, to explore research and medicine; Improving the health of others has been a consistent trend in my exploration, as well as my education: having started out as a physical education major (fostering healthy habits in youth) to observing in a physical therapy office, to being a swim coach, to studying biology and shadowing physicians and volunteering in hospitals - indeed I have seen a multitude of capacities in which I could help others, but all things considered, medicine seems to be the field which confers the greatest potential to maintain my interest in the life sciences, while also making a tremendous DIRECT difference in another persons life. Sure, I could touch the lives of millions through research, as did James Watson, but I am more interested in having a direct role in the process; also I am not interested in a primarily research-oriented career.

 

[realmeaning]

Best advice I ever got:

If there's any career other than medicine in which you could be happy, then for the love of all that's holy, do the other career.

The what if's go both ways. It's not whether you'll want to quit medicine, it's how you'll deal with wanting to quit every other day during the hard parts.

I have to say that I disagree. I think that having other mistresses besides medicine doesn't negate love of it, or predict success in med school or as a doctor. There are many other things that I could see myself being happy in-- advertising, magazine publishing, ID work, hell, teaching gymnastics or even making pottery in Northern California. None of these alternatives are even remotely related to medicine. But at the end of the day, medicine is the perfect package for me, because it would be the most fulfilling. The reasons for which one chooses a career are not always linear, but can be mysteriously synergistic.

I'm not the only one. My sophomore roommate was all Bloomberg biz until senior year and now is very successful at Yale Med. I remember reading a book by a doctor (whose name I of course forgot-- he was Indian is all I remember) documenting his switch from a Ph.D in physics to med school. Even while in med school, he nursed a secret passion for reporting, and considered dropping out to pursue journalism. Today he's a successful doctor in NY who's a medical correspondent as well. I'm sure there are more people in similar situations whom I can't anecdotally name.

I think the above quote does have its truth for certain people. But I caution pre-meds who read it and assume they've chosen the wrong career because they have diverse interests. At the end of the day, one must obviously have enough passion for medicine to be faithful to it through the bumps and bruises of what will be a rocky marriage. But other passions don't hurt; on the contrary, med schools love to see diverse applicants with a variety of interests.

 

[startoverat40]

.

For example: those who want to be Paul Farmer, work in Doctors without Borders, etc, could make a great contribution by studying civil engineering, in order to work on the water and roads needed to make relief efforts possible.

.

I thought about that, but came to the conclusion that I don't want to be just an enabler. I want to be THE lifesaver. Plus, having a corporate job Still means sitting in the cubicle and going to stupid meetings. I can't stand the thought of doing that any longer. I couldn't be happier about starting med school!

By the way, I said pretty much that exact thing in my personal statement.

 

[NightGod]

I thought about that, but came to the conclusion that I don't want to be just an enabler. I want to be THE lifesaver. Plus, having a corporate job Still means sitting in the cubicle and going to stupid meetings. I can't stand the thought of doing that any longer. I couldn't be happier about starting med school!

By the way, I said pretty much that exact thing in my personal statement.

This is a huge part of what finalized my decision to follow me med school dreams. If I'm going to be working insane hours and dealing with piles of paperwork and bureaucracy, I'd rather be saving lives than padding some CEO's stock portfolio.

 

[Chilaquiles]

I think this thread should be sticky'd.

This is a non-trad success story, with a different spin.

no sarcasm.

I mean it.

I feel a bit relieved after reading it and motivated as well.

Thanks for posting!

 

[Law2Doc]

The biggest thing you need to have when re-applying is improvement over the previous cycle. If you have no real difference between your first and second and third applications, yeah, schools would probably glance at the new one and throw it away. If you keep improving your research, clinical experience, grades (if necessary), etc. between cycles, your chances increase each time.

This. As a reapplicant you need to show substantial improvement. If it's pretty much the same application, skip a cycle. And try to meet with admissions folk to see where you fell short and what you need to improve. If they tell you X, Y and Z, and you fix X, Y and Z, they are more vested in the outcome. at some point, if it's really not going to happen here, your last hail Mary shot would be offshore. That window is quickly closing though, and odds of throwing away a lot if money for a worthless MD and no residency spot are kind of high, so realize that it's not a first choice option.

As for the OP, congrats. The goal is less about being a doctor and more about self satisfaction. The title is meaningless, and white coats lose their shine after a while. In the end it's about having a career you like and not dreading the alarm clock every Monday morning.

 

[realmeaning]

This is a huge part of what finalized my decision to follow me med school dreams. If I'm going to be working insane hours and dealing with piles of paperwork and bureaucracy, I'd rather be saving lives than padding some CEO's stock portfolio.

+1

I was turned off (by lack of a better word) by the idea that physicians have the some of the longest work weeks and non-existant personal lives. Then I realized that if I wanted to aim for the "top tier" of any profession, be it management consulting or advertising, it would require the same crazy work weeks with MUCH less personal satisfaction and less alignment with my morals.

 

[jl lin]

In the end it's about having a career you like and not dreading the alarm clock every Monday morning.

Totally this. And there is a big difference between being tired and not feeling like getting out of bed the first second the alarm goes off versus dreading, pretty much, the rest of the day.

 

[startoverat40]

+1

I was turned off (by lack of a better word) by the idea that physicians have the some of the longest work weeks and non-existant personal lives. Then I realized that if I wanted to aim for the "top tier" of any profession, be it management consulting or advertising, it would require the same crazy work weeks with MUCH less personal satisfaction and less alignment with my morals.

 

[SrootsWwings]

By what effort did you become familiarized with medicine?

Similar effort to investigate other fields would be responsible and add clarity.

Medicine was the job I dedicated myself towards wholeheartedly up until college, or during formative and less informed years of my life. I did my pre-med prereqs in undergrad, but otherwise distanced myself from considering medicine - in college, that meant various ECs and seriously LOVING my philosophy major; since graduating (the past three years), I have worked from tutoring/teaching to the legal world and government work to being almost full-time dedicated to the great outdoors.

More important (at least I think) than varied concrete experiences, though, I have learned incredible basic life tenets in a way (experientially) that I could never have learned otherwise (even though I had been told them millions of times). E.g., I can posit myself towards almost any goal/career I set upon by creating/molding my value system of happiness/success. My, and many people's, basic non-negotiables of doing good for the world, challenging oneself intellectually/creatively, and securing a baseline Maslow's-hierarchy-wise for the family one hopes to raise can all be met in a nearly infinite and certainly ever-expanding number of ways. I feel lucky to have had these lessons.

I am currently essentially doing what is being warned against here, i.e., sacrificing everything I currently have to throw all my chips into med school. This is not, though, because I think there is nothing else I can do - it is simply THE thing I want to do. If, several years down the road, I still cannot get accepted, I imagine I will move on to something else after much reflection, and I know I will find great happiness with that something else. But first I'm gonna throw everything I have at it and jump through every ring of fire in front of me.

Why?

Well, although there are a number of things that fit my basic non-negotiable bill listed above, medicine does it in an idiosyncratic way pursuant to my and our culture that just gets me all warm, fuzzy, and giddy like no other field in which I have worked or investigated. I obviously need more time to properly explicate my reasoning, but I know that it is what I want, regardless of my trouble articulating it. Fortunately, I have at least over a year to work on said articulation before I'm on the hot seat (right now, I just need to get to the hot seat!).

Chodan, thank you very much for sharing. I really do not know whether this ramble makes sense, but your story enframes many of our current paths with a transcendental goodness/settledness that prevents a "nightmare" scenario.