does anyone else have to be strip searched before leaving store??

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Short Round said:
How do people sneak tussionex out haha. I can understand swiping some tabs or caps, but jacking tussionex seems like too much of a hassle
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Simple - the trash method mentioned above. It's a fairly common method of loss. The owner of my pharmacy had a tech at one of his other pharmacies stealing 500 count stock bottles of Lortab in this manner until she got busted. She would take the trash out and make sure to place the bag with a full bottle of Lortab in an easily accessible part of the dumpster, and her boyfriend would come by in the middle of the night and grab the goods out of the dumpster. Tussionex would be just as easy. Also, Phenergan w/ Codeine is a frequently stolen drug here.
 
By3Times1Minus1 said:
Simple - the trash method mentioned above. It's a fairly common method of loss. The owner of my pharmacy had a tech at one of his other pharmacies stealing 500 count stock bottles of Lortab in this manner until she got busted. She would take the trash out and make sure to place the bag with a full bottle of Lortab in an easily accessible part of the dumpster, and her boyfriend would come by in the middle of the night and grab the goods out of the dumpster. Tussionex would be just as easy. Also, Phenergan w/ Codeine is a frequently stolen drug here.
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Having outside dumpsters like that is against DEA regulations. If techs are putting bottles like that in trash cans that clerks use then that's a problem with management.
 
renetto said:
Having outside dumpsters like that is against DEA regulations. If techs are putting bottles like that in trash cans that clerks use then that's a problem with management.
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Please show me the regulations. Cite them. They do not exist. I would like to see where it is written. Every single pharmacy I have worked at for 27 years, chain and independent has had an outside trash dumpster.
 
Old Timer said:
Please show me the regulations. Cite them. They do not exist. I would like to see where it is written. Every single pharmacy I have worked at for 27 years, chain and independent has had an outside trash dumpster.
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But trash from behind the counter isn't supposed to be put into outside dumpsters unless it's shredded or the trash bin is locked. We have a DEA regulations book in the office so I'll get access to it Tuesday and find the regulation.
 
Old Timer said:
Please show me the regulations. Cite them. They do not exist. I would like to see where it is written. Every single pharmacy I have worked at for 27 years, chain and independent has had an outside trash dumpster.
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This is correct. The only trash that is to be kept inside is confidential papers and records, that goes into the blue bag.

Empty stock bottles and such are tossed into normal garbage.
 
Sparda29 said:
This is correct. The only trash that is to be kept inside is confidential papers and records, that goes into the blue bag.

Empty stock bottles and such are tossed into normal garbage.
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I've never used a blue bag for documents and records, we always shred them and put them with the normal trash.


Or keep them locked up in the database.
 
renetto said:
I've never used a blue bag for documents and records, we always shred them and put them with the normal trash.


Or keep them locked up in the database.
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That's what the independent I did my rotations at did. At CVS they put it in the blue bags, which are picked up by Cintas, and disposed of.
 
renetto said:
Having outside dumpsters like that is against DEA regulations. If techs are putting bottles like that in trash cans that clerks use then that's a problem with management.
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renetto said:
I've never used a blue bag for documents and records, we always shred them and put them with the normal trash.


Or keep them locked up in the database.
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I've worked at both chain and independent as well and agree with Old Timer. The only thing I've ever heard what you're talking about pertain to is disposable patient information. At Walgreen's, we had special cardboard boxes for this that were taped up once full and sent off to be incinerated. My current pharmacy has a big blue trash bin (with a locking lid that has a slot to slip papers into) for any pt info that we pay a company to destroy for us every so often. I don't think that this pertains to empty pill bottles or other trash the pharmacy generates unless it contains patient info. If you do have a citation that says otherwise, I'm curious to see it also.
 
renetto said:
But trash from behind the counter isn't supposed to be put into outside dumpsters unless it's shredded or the trash bin is locked. We have a DEA regulations book in the office so I'll get access to it Tuesday and find the regulation.
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That of course would be HIPAA, but would have no bearing on regular trash and has nothing to do with the DEA.
 
MountainPharmD said:
What?!?!? So you think the DEA has regulations concerning outside dumpsters?
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Believe it or not, i think someone told us this in high school in a health class section on drug abuse. It's pretty easy to tell it is bogus when you notice all the unlocked dumpsters outside of pharmacies.
 
Old Timer said:
That of course would be HIPAA, but would have no bearing on regular trash and has nothing to do with the DEA.
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HIPAA doesn't regulate drugs and how you dispose of them and their containers, you should know this.
 
aboveliquidice said:
and why do you think they shred certain papers/documents in the pharmacy?

Does no one fact check anymore?
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Shredding documents is to prevent a violation of HIPAA. How are you guys not getting this?

HIPAA goes with documents and patient information while DEA goes with drugs and controlled substances. It's like a SAT analogy, you guys passed that test right?
 
renetto said:
Shredding documents is to prevent a violation of HIPAA. How are you guys not getting this?

HIPAA goes with documents and patient information while DEA goes with drugs and controlled substances. It's like a SAT analogy, you guys passed that test right?
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Yes, but there is no DEA regulation on disposing drug bottles and containers. There is no need for them to be separated from normal trash. As for the HIPAA regulations, they say that the papers must be disposed of in a confidential manner, whether that is just shredding it and tossing it into the normal garbage, or putting it in blue bags and sending it off to a disposal company, is up to the pharmacy to decide.
 
Screw the analogy, dude. You made a simple declarative statement that has been challenged. Now it's time to put up or admit you were incorrect. We want the citation with the appropriate regulation that backs up your simple declarative sentence.
 
http://www.policy.umn.edu/Policies/Research/CONTROLLEDSUBSTANCE_PROC01.html

A simple google search got me that. We're talking about disposing of bottles that contain drug in them, if a tech is putting that in the normal trash can without making record of it then the PIC is at fault for this.

This should be common knowledge and not something you need to hound on for "ze papahs", it's a bit scary to know that you might be a PIC and don't know this.
 
renetto said:
http://www.policy.umn.edu/Policies/Research/CONTROLLEDSUBSTANCE_PROC01.html

A simple google search got me that. We're talking about disposing of bottles that contain drug in them, if a tech is putting that in the normal trash can without making record of it then the PIC is at fault for this.

This should be common knowledge and not something you need to hound on for "ze papahs", it's a bit scary to know that you might be a PIC and don't know this.
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Its a bit scary you claim to be a pharmacy student and are this ignorant....Oh wait stop the presses!!! I just read your sweet link to a report from the University of Minnisota concerning disposing of controlled substances for research. Damn we just got owned! You rock!

Please, please keep going. This is awesome comedy. I actually am laughing out loud at you right now.....
 
MountainPharmD said:
Sweet a report from the University of Minnisota concerning disposing of controlled substances for research. Damn we just got owned! You rock!

Please, please keep going this is awesome comedy. I actually am laughing out loud at you right now.....

Its a bit scary you claim to be a phartmacy student and are this ignorant....
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I'm sure you do enjoy this since you have nothing else in your life to enjoy Mr I hate my job!


By the way, I'm a pharmacy student. I don't practice "phartmacy" anywhere.
 
renetto said:
http://www.policy.umn.edu/Policies/Research/CONTROLLEDSUBSTANCE_PROC01.html

A simple google search got me that. We're talking about disposing of bottles that contain drug in them, if a tech is putting that in the normal trash can without making record of it then the PIC is at fault for this.

This should be common knowledge and not something you need to hound on for "ze papahs", it's a bit scary to know that you might be a PIC and don't know this.
Click to expand...

Obviously a tech stealing drugs is not going to record that he or she placed a bottle containing a controlled substance in the trash to take out later. In the same logic, do you think an employee walking out the door with a concealed bottle of Oxycontin in his pocket is going to record that as well? You said: "If techs are putting bottles like that in trash cans that clerks use then that's a problem with management." I'm assuming you mean bottles containing controlled substances here (please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming so)? "But trash from behind the counter isn't supposed to be put into outside dumpsters unless it's shredded or the trash bin is locked." I don't consider bottles containing drugs to be "trash," so which argument are you trying to make here?

Also, if we're going by google searches as evidenced citations, let's take a look at this hit from another simple google search: "Empty bottles from controlled substances can be disposed of in any appropriate waste container." - taken from https://www.ehs.uci.edu/apps/controlprimer/controlprimer.jsp#s13. Yes, this is from the Environmental Health and Safety at UC Irvine, but it is just as credible and (im)pertinent to this discussion as the research link you posted.
If you get the actual DEA regulations citing this on Tuesday, I will have no problem admitting I'm incorrect.

Finally, if you're going to make snarky comments about others such as the SAT analogy remark, what about page 1 of this thread when you chose to ignore where several others and myself stated multiple times that some people have to bring personal belongings/clothes/equipment for other jobs into our pharmacy jobs because we simply can not stop at home to drop things off or pick them up in between classes and work or job 1 and job 2? Instead you repeatedly kept saying this was an inexcusable and unprofessional practice but gave no reasons why it was unprofessional. Surely, you remember having to take the reading comprehension and writing skills sections on the PCAT, or was that just too long ago for you?
 
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This is your simple declarative statement.
renetto said:
Having outside dumpsters like that is against DEA regulations. If techs are putting bottles like that in trash cans that clerks use then that's a problem with management.
Click to expand...

This was my response:
Old Timer said:
Please show me the regulations. Cite them. They do not exist. I would like to see where it is written. Every single pharmacy I have worked at for 27 years, chain and independent has had an outside trash dumpster.
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You responded with:
renetto said:
http://www.policy.umn.edu/Policies/Research/CONTROLLEDSUBSTANCE_PROC01.html

A simple google search got me that. We're talking about disposing of bottles that contain drug in them, if a tech is putting that in the normal trash can without making record of it then the PIC is at fault for this.

This should be common knowledge and not something you need to hound on for "ze papahs", it's a bit scary to know that you might be a PIC and don't know this.
Click to expand...

You posted a policy statement for the lawful disposition of controlled substances in a research setting and the policy of the Univeristy of Minnesota.

Any case where a tech would be hiding controlled substances in the trash for later theft would of course be a criminal act and would not fall under the DEA regulations as anyone who was willing to commit a crime is not worried about DEA regulations for dumpsters. This is why all wise business people use clear bags for trash so it's easy to spot something amiss when the trash is removed from the pharmacy. That's a trick I learned as an independent that CVS happens to follow as well.

I think you are beating a dead horse here. I think the appropriate thing to do is eat some virtual humble pie and admit you do not have the factual basis to back up your claim. It happens to the best of us. We are all human.
 
By3Times1Minus1 said:
Obviously a tech stealing drugs is not going to record that he or she placed a bottle containing a controlled substance in the trash to take out later. In the same logic, do you think an employee walking out the door with a concealed bottle of Oxycontin in his pocket is going to record that as well? You said: "If techs are putting bottles like that in trash cans that clerks use then that's a problem with management." I'm assuming you mean bottles containing controlled substances here (please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming so)? "But trash from behind the counter isn't supposed to be put into outside dumpsters unless it's shredded or the trash bin is locked." I don't consider bottles containing drugs to be "trash," so which argument are you trying to make here?

Also, if we're going by google searches as evidenced citations, let's take a look at this hit from another simple google search: "Empty bottles from controlled substances can be disposed of in any appropriate waste container." - taken from https://www.ehs.uci.edu/apps/controlprimer/controlprimer.jsp#s13. Yes, this is from the Environmental Health and Safety at UC Irvine, but it is just as credible as the research link you posted.
If you get the actual DEA regulations citing this on Tuesday, I will have no problem admitting I'm incorrect.

Finally, if you're going to make snarky comments about others such as the SAT analogy remark, what about page 1 of this thread when you chose to ignore where several others and myself stated multiple times that some people have to bring personal belongings/clothes/equipment for other jobs into our pharmacy jobs because we simply can not stop at home to drop things off or pick them up in between classes and work or job 1 and job 2. Instead you repeatedly kept saying this was an inexcusable and unprofessional practice but gave no reasons why it was unprofessional. Surely, you remember having to take the reading comprehension and writing skills sections on the PCAT, or was that just too long ago for you?
Click to expand...

YEAH.gif
 
renetto said:
http://www.policy.umn.edu/Policies/Research/CONTROLLEDSUBSTANCE_PROC01.html

A simple google search got me that. We're talking about disposing of bottles that contain drug in them, if a tech is putting that in the normal trash can without making record of it then the PIC is at fault for this.

This should be common knowledge and not something you need to hound on for "ze papahs", it's a bit scary to know that you might be a PIC and don't know this.
Click to expand...

type b pharmD said:
Wait !! You need to respond to the minnesota policy statement post with a facepalm style gif!!! :laugh:

I agree with mountain pharmD , this has turned into renetto's funniest moment ever!
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Here you go:

SiskoAnimated.gif
 
First:

294168009_b25decaddf.jpg


Second:

I only WISH that my bags and white coat were searched on my way in and out of my store. Instead, corporate's solution to pharmacy shrink is to ban anyone bringing in anything other than a small wallet and outside coat into the pharmacy. If we want to bring in anything else, we can leave it in the breakroom for the rest of the grocery store, which has lockers that we can't put our own locks on. We're not even really supposed to bring our own food in. I like the people who work in the main part of the store, but I don't know all of them well enough to leave my things where I can't see them for up to 11 hours. At first when these rules came down there was a budget for a small set of lockers to be put right outside of the pharmacy, but that money quickly disappeared when 300+ stores requested them.

One of the other stores in my area was audited by corporate and failed. The store manager (not the pharmacy manager) freaked out and instituted even stricter rules: only one outside coat (from a pharmacist only, no techs) can be in the pharmacy at a time - the rest have to be hung up in a long closet near the time clock. No food can be kept in the mini-fridge unless it has a receipt from a DIFFERENT store on it (I don't understand this one at all), and keeping things like ketchup, butter, etc. is off-limits. All of the techs and interns had to sign a form saying that they would leave the pharmacy for their lunch break (no eating in the back out of sight of the customers), with threat of termination if he caught them. Within a week of this, one of the pharmacists had her coat stolen (leaving it in the car isn't much of an option when it's below freezing outside). The pharmacy manager is a nice guy, but he doesn't have the balls to stand up to the store manager about this.

For the most part, I break the rules at my store every time I work - I only work on weekends when the auditors don't visit, but I know that if my DM were to drop in I could get in trouble. My pharmacists haven't made a big deal of it, and I've told them that they can feel free to check my purse and white coat at any time. I only make purchases at the front part of the store so that non-pharmacy personnel can check me out. The first time I floated at the store mentioned above I was clueless about the new rules and the pharmacist was nice enough to lock my things inside the CII cabinet, which only the pharmacist has access to.

I understand the importance of controlling shrink and that employee theft makes up the majority of the $$ lost, but there's something to be said about not treating your employees like criminals.

Oh, and for what it's worth: I commute a half-hour (in good traffic) every day to/from my rotations, and often keep a pair of jeans and other little essentials in my car. If I took public transportation I would bring these things in with me. If I've ever come straight from school and have my laptop with me, there is no way that I'm leaving it in my car to bake/freeze (depending on the season) or for easy pickings. I don't ever wear my white coat into a pharmacy b/c: a) it's pretty dorky and b) nothing else quite screams "hey, I have access to drugs! Please jump me!" like that sparkly white coat. Additionally, one of the items that I had to bring in every time I worked for nearly a year wasn't something I could leave elsewhere: 🙄
file_4_14.jpg
 
Old Timer said:
This is your simple declarative statement.


This was my response:


You responded with:


You posted a policy statement for the lawful disposition of controlled substances in a research setting and the policy of the Univeristy of Minnesota.

Any case where a tech would be hiding controlled substances in the trash for later theft would of course be a criminal act and would not fall under the DEA regulations as anyone who was willing to commit a crime is not worried about DEA regulations for dumpsters. This is why all wise business people use clear bags for trash so it's easy to spot something amiss when the trash is removed from the pharmacy. That's a trick I learned as an independent that CVS happens to follow as well.

I think you are beating a dead horse here. I think the appropriate thing to do is eat some virtual humble pie and admit you do not have the factual basis to back up your claim. It happens to the best of us. We are all human.
Click to expand...


You should go and read up on my rules for SDN, you might learn a lot.
 
type b pharmD said:
Wait !! You need to respond to the minnesota policy statement post with a facepalm style gif!!! :laugh:

I agree with mountain pharmD , this has turned into renetto's funniest moment ever!
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LOL you're a little slow, aren't you?
 
MountainPharmD said:
The only employees this will bother are the ones stealing.
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I actually don't agree with this at all.

I do NOT steal, but I also don't like be treated like a thief when I have given the company no reason to believe I AM one. I understand all the arguments for this - employee theft, being pro-active in prevention, etc., etc.

My problem is that it is demoralizing and for me personally, it makes me feel de-valued as an employee. And a company full of employees who do not feel valued, respected, or trusted is one that is breeding an environment where people don't care - about theft, shrink, or about anything else.
 
ajh88 said:
I actually don't agree with this at all.

I do NOT steal, but I also don't like be treated like a thief when I have given the company no reason to believe I AM one. I understand all the arguments for this - employee theft, being pro-active in prevention, etc., etc.

My problem is that it is demoralizing and for me personally, it makes me feel de-valued as an employee. And a company full of employees who do not feel valued, respected, or trusted is one that is breeding an environment where people don't care - about theft, shrink, or about anything else.
Click to expand...

I see your point but corporate retail pharmacy does alot of things to demoralize and de-value you as an employee. This is low on the list for me.

You are exactly right. A company full of employees who do not feel valued, respected, or trusted is one that is breeding an environment where people don't care - about theft, shrink, or about anything else. For me that sums up corporate retail pharmacy today.
 
renetto said:
You should go and read up on my rules for SDN, you might learn a lot.
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Who cares about your rules for SDN besides you? Just admit you were wrong. If not, you just keep making a fool of yourself.
 
Old Timer said:
Who cares about your rules for SDN besides you? Just admit you were wrong. If not, you just keep making a fool of yourself.
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see http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9405422&postcount=15
more specifically "2) Don't argue with anybody more than once. Make your point, listen to the counterpoint, rebuttle, finish. The more you go on, the more you'll get baited into saying things that they want you to say." I think asking if you've read his rules is perhaps his way of conveying he feels he's made his point and is done arguing. Until I see the specific DEA regulation stating otherwise, I'm taking it as him saying he has provided insufficient evidence to back up his claim and is admitting he is wrong.
 
By3Times1Minus1 said:
see http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9405422&postcount=15
more specifically "2) Don't argue with anybody more than once. Make your point, listen to the counterpoint, rebuttle, finish. The more you go on, the more you'll get baited into saying things that they want you to say." I think asking if you've read his rules is perhaps his way of conveying he feels he's made his point and is done arguing. Until I see the specific DEA regulation stating otherwise, I'm taking it as him saying he has provided insufficient evidence to back up his claim and is admitting he is wrong.
Click to expand...

I believe I said I was going to scan something from my place of work which relates to the DEA but I have yet to get behind the counter to scan it. I haven't admitted to doing or saying anything wrong because I haven't.


This obviously isn't my first goat f*ck, I know how to handle *****s on a message board.
 
renetto said:
I believe I said I was going to scan something from my place of work which relates to the DEA but I have yet to get behind the counter to scan it. I haven't admitted to doing or saying anything wrong because I haven't.


This obviously isn't my first goat f*ck, I know how to handle *****s on a message board.
Click to expand...

Just stop...
 
renetto said:
I believe I said I was going to scan something from my place of work which relates to the DEA but I have yet to get behind the counter to scan it. I haven't admitted to doing or saying anything wrong because I haven't.


This obviously isn't my first goat f*ck, I know how to handle *****s on a message board.
Click to expand...

you've been to a goat f*ck, and you're trying to convince us that throwing pill bottles in the trash or having a dumpster outside is illegal? i'm sure i can effortlessly come up with legislation stating that fornicating with hoofed creatures is illegal.

well, now that you're banned, there's one less ***** on a message board that the internet has to worry about. damn, i was really looking forward to the DEA citation that you weren't going to provide.
 
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I think renetto is the one with the last laugh, I just read his rules for SDN post and he's dead on correct. Say something that people disagree with or use a crude phrase and you're banned. This is why real pharmacy students like me don't respect this forum or the users that run it. Its a shame that there isn't a pharmacy forum alternative, this place is pathetic.

Go ahead and ban me because you guys disagree with me so you can continue the joke and prove us all right that SDN is a place of intolerance.
 
SoonerGrad2010 said:
I think renetto is the one with the last laugh, I just read his rules for SDN post and he's dead on correct. Say something that people disagree with or use a crude phrase and you're banned. This is why real pharmacy students like me don't respect this forum or the users that run it. Its a shame that there isn't a pharmacy forum alternative, this place is pathetic.

Go ahead and ban me because you guys disagree with me so you can continue the joke and prove us all right that SDN is a place of intolerance.
Click to expand...

Ask any of the users on this forum, I've said plenty of crude things, and plenty of things that people disagree with, I have not been banned.
 
Sparda29 said:
Ask any of the users on this forum, I've said plenty of crude things, and plenty of things that people disagree with, I have not been banned.
Click to expand...

I agree, you have said many things i disagreed with, but thats part of having a forum...We can't all agree with one another! Sometimes i just wanna reach into the computer and slap you across the head (not literally) but it makes the forum interesting! The only time sometime should be banned is for personal attacks or really crude language!
 
SoonerGrad2010 said:
I think renetto is the one with the last laugh, I just read his rules for SDN post and he's dead on correct. Say something that people disagree with or use a crude phrase and you're banned. This is why real pharmacy students like me don't respect this forum or the users that run it. Its a shame that there isn't a pharmacy forum alternative, this place is pathetic.

Go ahead and ban me because you guys disagree with me so you can continue the joke and prove us all right that SDN is a place of intolerance.
Click to expand...

I dont think people really ban that quickly on this board. Only a few legitimate users have been warned, and very few banned. Renetto was obviously simply trolling.
 
Trolling? I was under the impression that trolling involved getting reactions out of people by purposely going against other people (which describes most of the people here). He said he was going to post his proof but since he's banned we can't see it. So he posts a crude phrase (pony show probably would have been better) yet Old Timer can belittle people and stick around? This is why students stay away from SDN or at least the ones I went to OU with. No tolerance at all for opposing views, either you drink the kool-aid or you drink the poison.
 
SoonerGrad2010 said:
Trolling? I was under the impression that trolling involved getting reactions out of people by purposely going against other people (which describes most of the people here). He said he was going to post his proof but since he's banned we can't see it. So he posts a crude phrase (pony show probably would have been better) yet Old Timer can belittle people and stick around? This is why students stay away from SDN or at least the ones I went to OU with. No tolerance at all for opposing views, either you drink the kool-aid or you drink the poison.
Click to expand...

Trolling would be someone who is not a pharmacist or pharmacy student coming on here with the sole intent to inflame, abuse and otherwise cause trouble.

Some of the stuff he said was so absurd there is no way he was in anyway associated with pharmacy. It was obvious he had nothing meaningful to contribute and knew nothing about pharmacy. The DEA dumpster comment will go down in SDN lore as one of the stupidest things I have ever seen anyone type. What pushed it over the top was how he kept making it worse. (For the record I had nothing to do with him getting banned.) I am sorry he is gone because he provided us some funny **** to laugh at.

I do not agree with you that SDN members have no tolerance for opposing views. This is an anonymous Internet forum. People say things on here they would never say to your face. That is one of the funs things about this. Sorry if your feelings got hurt because someone disagreed with you. If you are that sensitive you got a rough ride ahead if you want to be a pharmacist.
 
renetto said:
This obviously isn't my first goat f*ck......
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aboveliquidice said:
You f*ck goats? I haven't a clue what people have been posting in this thread (I have a 3 post limit) - but clearly other issues have arisen 😕
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The DEA dumpster comment and following defense was one of the stupidest things I have ever seen posted on here and an instant classic. This revelation is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on SDN. Wow...to not only admit to doing it but to come right out and say this isn't the first time is disturbing. renetto we will miss you buddy (and your goats)!👎
 
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