Does anyone feel like I do?

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Folks, let's try to remember that SDN (and this forum in particular) is a community of like-minded users coming together to share experiences and advice.

It is not a place where trashing another user's opinions and/or feelings is encouraged or welcome. Let's please keep it civil. Thanks. 😀
 
Folks, let's try to remember that SDN (and this forum in particular) is a community of like-minded users coming together to share experiences and advice.

It is not a place where trashing another user's opinions and/or feelings is encouraged or welcome. Let's please keep it civil. Thanks. 😀

The poster specifically requested that others comment on his opinions, by asking "Am I too greedy?" That is all that is being done.

Regarding the OP's post, yes, you are being greedy. As far as the teacher is concerned, his/her concern is educating the class, not protecting your rank. You have no special priviledged access to knowledge just because you asked the question. You do realize that that is how every bit of scientific knowledge has been gained, right? Someone asked a question, figured out an answer, then SHARED that answer with the world. Oh wait, I forgot, those people actually figured out the answer themselves.

To the poster who was concerned about the OP not wanting to do other people's thinking.. well, he didn't. He asked the professor to do HIS thinking for him, then was upset that the professor shared with more than just him. If he'd identified some questions, done the research, thought hard about it, and figured out the answers, he'd have the right to hold that knowledge in his mind. But if he's asking for the professor's knowledge, hey, guess what, other students are paying the same tuition that he is for that assistance.

Finally, to the OP: Dude, that was some weird syntax you used in one post. LIke, it was 3rd person, but you were referring to yourself as 'the OP'. Kinda trippy 🙂
 
The poster specifically requested that others comment on his opinions, by asking "Am I too greedy?" That is all that is being done.

Some replies go beyond replying to the OP's "Am I selfish?" question and border on personal attack. It is possible to disagree with someone -- even passionately -- and still remain professional.
 
I would feel good about my-self. Besides who cares as long as you got your answers.
 
I am sure we can all slightly relate to the competitive feeling you have. However, if you were analytical and smart enough to come up with these questions that no one else did, you should feel like you are analytical and smart enough to do well despite how much your questions helped others.
 
As zipmedic suggested, no need to berate the OP -- it is a pretty common attitude among premeds and perhaps some folks would benefit if it were addressed civilly on a pre-professional board.

OP, I think you need to take a step back and look at the big picture. The prof has as his/her job the goal of teaching everyone in the class. So if someone emails him/her a question that the prof feels would benefit everyone, the prof has the duty (as a teacher) to give the answer to everyone. This is not unique to your school or your prof. Kudos to you for asking questions which were good enough to merit a public response -- if the prof responded to you privately via email, that, more often then not, would mean that the question simply didn't merit an airing.

I would suggest that if you truly want to get answers on an individual basis, email is a very bad way to do it. You go to the prof's office hours, or go up to them after class. The prof will explain it to you and perhaps in the process get to know you well enough to give you a better LOR.

I agree with the pack that the "me against the class" attitude tends not to be a productive one. Generally it is the folks who learn the material really well and then reinforce their knowledge by explaining it to others, who actually do the best in class, not the ones who try to horde knowledge away from others. If you are the guy/gal explaining a difficult topic to a classmate, you are the guy at the top of the curve. Virtually every person who I have ever thanked for help has indicated that it actually helped them too because explaining it helped cement the knowledge.

Try to shake the ultra-competitive attitude -- it is unbecoming of someone who wants to go into a profession where teaching your colleagues is emphasized/mandated.
 
OP

you cant be so ticked off about these little things. There are so many other things in college and in life that will piss you off 10x more. Please dont act like those sheltered kids on the hills.... Is this your first year of college?

your grade isnt going to suffer...stop worrying about this. Also, sometimes you will have to work in groups.....i cant imagine your world then...

sometimes medicine is group affair too...sometimes it isn't just you.
 
I emailed a prof, asking three good questions that were generated by hard-thinking. She didn't respond to it. Instead, in the beginning of the next lecture, she first announced that someone in the class emailed three questions to her. Them she pulled out a note sheet, which had my three questions in exact same order, and began answering each one in front of everybody in the lecture while glancing at the questions.
I feel really bitter because I don't want other people to benefit from my questions and therefore do well. I also think it's a little unfair because they didn't put in the effort to generate and ask those good questions, but still, they got to listen to the answers to those questions for "free".
Why I'm concerned is because this class will be curved or scaled, so the more the whole class does better, the better I need to do to get a decent grade.
Am I too greedy?


Please don't tell me you just sit around generating good questions to ask your professor rather than asking something you really don't know. If you do, that's whats weird.
 
From now on, I'll start going to her office hours and never ask her any questions via email.

even if you asked the questions in person, the professor may as well have shared the questions with the class. how is it different from asking my email?

OP i think you should feel good that you were able to ask very good questions. And maybe you may have just provided that extra 2 points on the exam for someone who would have failed a course if it weren't for your questions.
 
Please don't tell me you just sit around generating good questions to ask your professor rather than asking something you really don't know. If you do, that's whats weird.

Actually thinking up good questions to give you an excuse to go to office hours, so you can meet a prof from whom you might seek an LOR is a tried and true way of "playing the game". Emailing them is where the OP went sour. As was having the goal of hording knowledge.
 
I emailed a prof, asking three good questions that were generated by hard-thinking. She didn't respond to it. Instead, in the beginning of the next lecture, she first announced that someone in the class emailed three questions to her. Them she pulled out a note sheet, which had my three questions in exact same order, and began answering each one in front of everybody in the lecture while glancing at the questions.
I feel really bitter because I don't want other people to benefit from my questions and therefore do well. I also think it's a little unfair because they didn't put in the effort to generate and ask those good questions, but still, they got to listen to the answers to those questions for "free".
Why I'm concerned is because this class will be curved or scaled, so the more the whole class does better, the better I need to do to get a decent grade.
Am I too greedy?

Gross.
 
OP, I understand how you might feel this way at this part of your education, but let me explain to you why it's really not ok in the long run.

First, there is no reason for me to reiterate the professor's obligation to educate more than just you.

I don't know if you've ever required tutoring or help from a classmate "getting" a concept, but there is an awful lot to be said for hearing other viewpoints and other ways of approaching a problem. And if your questions caused intellectual discussion, then you should be proud. You see, you want to enter a profession (medicine) where a great part of your job will be to educate your patients. Not just treat. Educate. You diagnose an illness, you must educate your patient. And that means answering questions, coming up with questions they can't, explaining in multiple ways if necessary to enable them to understand what is going on, how to best take care of themselves, and the ramifications of not following through. You want to enter a profession where you *must* share your knowledge for the benefit of your patients.

To get to that end you must go through med school. Let me tell you, it's certainly not undergrad and students who were straight A students in undergrad often struggle in med school. The ones who are selfish with their knowledge and intellectual curiosity are quickly shut out of study groups and find it difficult to master difficult concepts on their own. The ones who enjoy sharing knowledge, different viewpoints, etc. tend to do well.

At some point in this career you wish to embark upon, you are going to have to learn to educate without being arrogant. And, unfortunately, either you're going to have to genuinely enjoy it or you're going to be deserving of an Oscar for best actor.

Now might be a really good time for some introspection about what you think being a physician is all about. It really isn't all about you. It's about everyone else and helping them, teaching them how to live a better life.
 
I'd give you my opinion, but I don't want to help you to mature as a person at all. I mean, we may be applying to the same med school and all...
 
i think the op is pathetic exuse for a human being. You should be banned from entering professional school.. CMON.. you should want everyone to do well. You should help other people do well.. YOu are not gonna do well in medical school if you try to do it alone. and i doubt highly.... the fact that the other students got to listen to your question you wont get into medical school.. IN fact I hope you DO get into medical school. I WANT YOU TO BE MISERABLE..

The OP should forgive that little tirade since you didn't bother to read his post first. Everyone will NOT do well. Even with an 87%, it's possible to get a C in some of these classes where the teachers throw out numerical scores and grade based on comparative judging. "Oh, Johnny got a 91%, but Susie got a 91.9%. Let's give Susie a B and give Johnny a C." That's how it works in these kinds of classes with ridiculous peer curves.

People need to tear off their rose-colored glasses here. It's not the OP at fault, it's these kinds of mind games generated by good-for-nothing professors who get off on having a competitive class environment where students know that if they help a classmate, it might end up hurting them. I never understood why professors do that. What's to lose by having a cohesive class where people help each other, knowing it's possible that they'll ALL get A's. Most of my pre-reqs were like that. In Chem I and Chem II, we all helped one another. If someone didn't understand something, four other people would try to explain it to him. In classes where only a handful will get A's and only a handful will get B's, why would any of you expect someone to help someone else, knowing that you could very well end up with a C, not because of grades but because of a pathetic curve that some pathetic professor uses?

I say give people what they deserve. Don't curve down and (I may catch some heat for this) don't curve up either to make it fair. A student gets what a student gets. If you're a decent enough teacher, you won't have to screw with the curve because you'll more than likely get an average in the B-/C+ range anyway.

Hard to believe that they only give 5% A's in your class, what kind of curve would that be? And not even an A- to a 95% uncurved?

Um, they don't give +/-'s at my school. It's straight-up A, B, C, D, F. And we knew going into the class that only two people would get an A.
 
While I agree with MedStudentWanna that a large part of the OP's problem stems from the fact that the class was graded on a curve, I think we have to keep in mind that professors are sometimes pressured by the administration to give out more low grades, and the people who complain about how bad grade curves are are often the same people who throw taunts of "Grade inflation!" at schools where professors opt for a less competitive classroom environment. Moreover, the problem isn't just limited to classrooms that are graded on a curve: throughout life, there are myriad situations where in order for one person to win, another person has to lose. To speak melodramatically, the question ultimately becomes how much of your soul you're willing to lose in order to win at these games.
 
Every once in a while I read a post that makes me love my school and my classmates even more. I am not sure why, but we just don't see this kind of behavior at Loyola- my classmates are generally very helpful, and if somebody figures something out - or an easier way to learn something, they share it via bulk e-mail. We even have a verb for it (to stritch10).

To the OP, please consider carefully which schools you apply to, lest you accidentally end up somewhere like here where everybody thrives in an atmosphere of cooperative learning, and helping each other out. I am sure there are schools that share your educational philosophies, so try to find one of those.
 
The OP should forgive that little tirade since you didn't bother to read his post first. Everyone will NOT do well. Even with an 87%, it's possible to get a C in some of these classes where the teachers throw out numerical scores and grade based on comparative judging. "Oh, Johnny got a 91%, but Susie got a 91.9%. Let's give Susie a B and give Johnny a C." That's how it works in these kinds of classes with ridiculous peer curves.

People need to tear off their rose-colored glasses here. It's not the OP at fault, it's these kinds of mind games generated by good-for-nothing professors who get off on having a competitive class environment where students know that if they help a classmate, it might end up hurting them. I never understood why professors do that. What's to lose by having a cohesive class where people help each other, knowing it's possible that they'll ALL get A's. Most of my pre-reqs were like that. In Chem I and Chem II, we all helped one another. If someone didn't understand something, four other people would try to explain it to him. In classes where only a handful will get A's and only a handful will get B's, why would any of you expect someone to help someone else, knowing that you could very well end up with a C, not because of grades but because of a pathetic curve that some pathetic professor uses?

I say give people what they deserve. Don't curve down and (I may catch some heat for this) don't curve up either to make it fair. A student gets what a student gets. If you're a decent enough teacher, you won't have to screw with the curve because you'll more than likely get an average in the B-/C+ range anyway.



Um, they don't give +/-'s at my school. It's straight-up A, B, C, D, F. And we knew going into the class that only two people would get an A.


Wow I feel sorry for you where a 95% isn't considered an A.

At our school, often the really competitive classes where a class is curved the scale is a lot larger. It is just that it is so tough to achieve the higher 90th+ percentile to get a good grade to the point that they have the curve down to an 87% or 85% as an A cutoff. Furthermore, it isn't a set only 2 people will be allowed to get A's, but more like if there are 200 students the top 10% will get As, the top 20% after them will get Bs the next 40% Cs then next 20% Ds and the final 10% Fail.

Usually even if a question like this is addressed in class that is hardly likely to break the curve. The bigger thing to affect the curve will be what number of the failing students drop the class right around the final withdrawal drop date. This will reinflate the curve back up and affect it more then a discussion on a student's questions. Also, as someone pointed out just because such questions are answered doesn't mean they are bound to affect what is on the test and how one will do on the test utimately. And even if people do ask questions spurring from those previous questions asked by the OP, who is to say that they are going to do better then the OP in a class or that is going to affect the overall outcome?? At the end, the smarter and harder working ones will still prevails. What matters is that the OP studies his butt off and learns to figure out the professor and professor's style of thinking and determining what's going to be on the exam then to not want to share some answers to questions.

As per what you said about professors, I couldn't agree more that a lot of this cutthroat atmosphere is bred from the roots of professors and their higher ups. It almost would be better if they set a set scale of grading and then if in the end there aren't such great grades to readjust the scale as they did in biochem rather then using the scaled system they used in organic chem or physics at my institution.

I felt that system worked out better. I also felt that despite the set score scales, it still worked out that a professor could achieve a bell curve because a lot of people still will make mistakes but by not saying its a competition against each other people were able to breed more cooperativity amonst students.
 
While I agree with MedStudentWanna that a large part of the OP's problem stems from the fact that the class was graded on a curve, I think we have to keep in mind that professors are sometimes pressured by the administration to give out more low grades, and the people who complain about how bad grade curves are are often the same people who throw taunts of "Grade inflation!" at schools where professors opt for a less competitive classroom environment. Moreover, the problem isn't just limited to classrooms that are graded on a curve: throughout life, there are myriad situations where in order for one person to win, another person has to lose. To speak melodramatically, the question ultimately becomes how much of your soul you're willing to lose in order to win at these games.

The problem here is not that there is a competition but that the professors rather then setting a set scale and seeing how students do based on it, they advertise that is a competition against each other. Like I said in my post above, a system like in my biochem class were a set scale was set and naturally led to a bell curve but didn't foster competition against each other since the scale was set in stone from the beginning is much better then stating its a competition. This breeds cooperativity and even if the majority still fall into the B C category it is due to their own doing and lack of understanding the material rather then cut throat behavior induced by professors.
 
I have always tried to share everything I know with my classmates. I wouldn't feel right being at the top of the class if I did it at the expense of keeping my knowledge from others. Which will probably keep me from ever being at the top, but so be it.

In my med school, if someone emails the instructor with a question, and the instructor feels that the question is good, the instructor replies to the question & cc's the whole class. Everyone benefits.
 
This thread makes me happy I went to a small LAC where no one gave a damn what other people's grades were and they had no grade curving. 😍
 
Every once in a while I read a post that makes me love my school and my classmates even more. I am not sure why, but we just don't see this kind of behavior at Loyola- my classmates are generally very helpful, and if somebody figures something out - or an easier way to learn something, they share it via bulk e-mail.

Yep, that is exactly how my school is, and I absolutely love it. I can't stand gunners, and it terrifies me that the OP (and people like him/her) might get into med school and become our future colleague. Medicine is a collaborative field, and we all do a lot better if we help each other.
 
Actually thinking up good questions to give you an excuse to go to office hours, so you can meet a prof from whom you might seek an LOR is a tried and true way of "playing the game". Emailing them is where the OP went sour. As was having the goal of hording knowledge.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware. My university is small. It doesn't take much at all to get to know my professors. Didn't mean to seem the a**.
 
so what caliber do you use? it sounds like you'd opt for the 0.50...
 
Folks, let's try to remember that SDN (and this forum in particular) is a community of like-minded users coming together to share experiences and advice.

It is not a place where trashing another user's opinions and/or feelings is encouraged or welcome. Let's please keep it civil. Thanks. 😀

With respect, I'd argue that the majority of the responses on this thread are from people who don't see the original poster as "like-minded". I know I don't.

I'll also say that I value sdn's [and especially this forum's, as you point out] sense of community, and its role as a place to "share experiences and advice". That's exactly why I find the original post so appalling. To me, the idea that you would be upset because something you said might have inadvertantly helped other people is, at the very least, bizarre.
 
TRAMD, nice try. After the prof answered all my three questions, many people started asking further questions based on those three questions. Some even asked the prof to clarify further. If no one did that, then what you said might be true. You're just another mean-spirited SDNer trying to offend the OP.

Edit: Okay, this is it. I'm not going to respond anymore. Most of the new posts to be posted will be just like the most ones already posted, trying to bash the OP. I have better things to do than reply to rude comments.

To answer your title question, it looks like some people here feel like you do, and lots of people (including me) don't.

I just don't get your perspective. You asked questions that the professor thought were interesting and worth using lecture time to talk about, and when they were shared in class they led to discussion and follow-up questions. This bothers you?

These three questions are, almost certainly, not going to affect where you fall on the curve. What the thoughtfulness of the questions (and the ensuing discussion) will do is make an impression on the professor.

What you should do is relax and congratulate yourself on contributing in some small measure to the value of this class for everyone in it. But if you need to play the "what's in it for me" game, follow up. Go to the professor's office hours, introduce yourself as the person who emailed her those questions, and ask some related questions. If you can, act like you're asking because you care about learning and not about scoring brownie points. Do well in the class. If the opportunity presents itself, speak up in class with other interesting questions/comments that everyone can benefit from. Make a good impression. And after the semester is over, ask the professor for a letter of recommendation. You'll get a lot more value for your application than if you just hoard knowledge and scrabble for each little point on the curve.
 
oh shut up, you know that you'd feel the same way. everyone on this forum is bashing the OP right now but you wouldnt be a premed SDNer if you werent gunner like this in some respect, so just stop.
A diligent student is not the same thing as a gunner. I did well in college and studied a lot. I wasn't worried about other people's performances, as long as I was doing the best that I could. I wouldn't send out all my carefully written notes to all the slackers who didn't go to class, but the OP was asking questions from the professor! The OP doesn't deserve special attention any more than anyone else in the class. The prof has every right to read the questions aloud.
 
I think the OP is still not on the right track as far as avoiding social awkwardness goes.
 
haha, the same kind of thing happened to me, I found a mistake in the homework assignment.. and my teacher told the class the mistake, and than said if anybody finds anymore mistakes they would get extra homework points....extra credit I did not get for my initial find.....

I could careless if it helped people or not....

haha I just wanted my extra credit points!!!!..lol

oh well... you win some, you lose some.
 
Don't worry, everyone else in the class already knew the answers to your questions. Inside they were laughing and thinking "Someone actually didn't know that?" and feeling very relieved that the curve would be a little easier to beat. They were, however, probably a little upset that class time was wasted answering such simple questions.

hahahah


I think the OP is totally justified in being pissed off! Fer gawd's sake, a person can't even trick a prof into educating only part of the class roster these days! It's a damn shame that she thought the material that could be conveyed in answering those questions might be beneficial to the collective understanding of the group she's paid to teach. Personally, I never ask a prof for further explanation because the dirty bastards tend to turn around and make sure they've taught the entire class what they're being paid to teach. Tsk.

You have no alternative but to sit down and write her a scathing email. She needs to know that YOUR tuition dollars, coupled with your emailing efforts, entitled you to more information and teaching than the rest of your classmates. Threaten to file suit for depriving you of personalized instruction if you don't get an A. That'll teach her.
 
So, you don't want people to benefit from your questions....

Next time someone asks a question in class, zone out or cover your ears because you would be benefiting from their question.



Stop crying.
 
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