This isn't really a good analogy because it is well known that second hand smoke is harmful to everyone. You're flower allergy is unique to you (and maybe a handful of others) and it would not make sense to change the rules for the minority. Politics (and Healthcare) is about appealing to the masses.
does anyone smoke?
- Thread starter bustedgrill
- Start date
This isn't really a good analogy because it is well known that second hand smoke is harmful to everyone. You're flower allergy is unique to you (and maybe a handful of others) and it would not make sense to change the rules for the minority. Politics (and Healthcare) is about appealing to the masses.
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,173
- Reaction score
- 261
I could debate whether or not it's "well known" that second hand smoke is harmful, but that's a whole 'nother thread and I simply don't have the time at the moment, besides I'm just doing this as a devil's advocate anyway. I hate cigarette smoke.
My only point in this thread is it shouldn't be the government's job to mandate what happens in a private business when people are choosing to do something to themselves, and not hurting anyone else, and it's ridiculous for a person or persons to walk into a private establishment, fully or not fully aware of what goes on there, and claim THEIR rights are being infringed. I'd worry more about people smoking on the publicly maintained sidewalk than in the privately owned bar.
If you walk into a cigar bar, it's YOUR fault if you're exposed to second hand smoke. The same applies for all except a few second-hand smoke situations (Kid in a smoking house, etc...)
So what about food safety regulations? Why is the government allowed to infringe on the "private" business owner? What about dental offices? Why is the government "allowed" to enforce general policies across all offices (i.e. OSHA)?
Just sayin'. You're argument doesn't hold up here.
Just sayin'. You're argument doesn't hold up here.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2009
- Messages
- 255
- Reaction score
- 0
Lol, I like how you save that part for last!
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,173
- Reaction score
- 261
Again, this is about choices. You choose to go into a restaurant where smoking is allowed, you don't choose to go to a restaurant to get E. coli. But if you wanted to, more power to you and if someone could maintain a business on willingly giving people E. coli, I'd be all for it.
I make my egg nog with raw eggs in it because it tastes 10x better, and if I could go to a restaurant where that was legal, I would pay a premium for it.
But you asked why the government is "allowed" to do these things. They're allowed to because of legislation, but just because it exists doesn't make it right or good.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2007
- Messages
- 45
- Reaction score
- 0
When one are addicted to something that is common sense bad, the only justification is to defend the miserly action with a deluded argument. I have done it with weed when I went ends on earth to defend why I was doing it 2-3 times a week. Its not as bad as alcohol or cigarettes, and it never killed anyone was my pathetic justification. I stopped when I realized the antimotivational properties of the drug, and no science article needed to tell me that my lungs didnt seem to like it.
A few years later, when you have a major problem in the body, THEN the guilt arrives. No one can convince these addicts to change. Most of the time they stop either when its too late, or when they wake up and realize the wrongdoings. We are going to be healthcare professionals. We have a reputation and a role as role models. We are the ones that know that we are given a body that is fully functional, able to take care of itself. I still don't understand why anyone in dental school would do it KNOWING all this. Its beyond ignorance. The only truth they can admit is that they are addicted and don't want to stop because they enjoy this DRUG which they KNOW they shouldn't be doing. But giving it any other justification other then that, such as cigarette SHM isnt harmful, that it never causes lung cancer, is just foolish.
A few years later, when you have a major problem in the body, THEN the guilt arrives. No one can convince these addicts to change. Most of the time they stop either when its too late, or when they wake up and realize the wrongdoings. We are going to be healthcare professionals. We have a reputation and a role as role models. We are the ones that know that we are given a body that is fully functional, able to take care of itself. I still don't understand why anyone in dental school would do it KNOWING all this. Its beyond ignorance. The only truth they can admit is that they are addicted and don't want to stop because they enjoy this DRUG which they KNOW they shouldn't be doing. But giving it any other justification other then that, such as cigarette SHM isnt harmful, that it never causes lung cancer, is just foolish.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
- Messages
- 257
- Reaction score
- 3
Do you go to USF? I know one that smokes too.
I also have a right to walk into a bar and not have to breathe in the toxic fumes. If you don't like government move to Somalia. I fully support the government and would be in full agreement if they decided to ban smoking altogether.
I wish the government would tax smoking more, it would hopefully decrease the incidence of losers smoking.
Anyone around the age of 20 who smokes is a *****. Have fun having lung cancer when you're 40.
Also, someone actually believes second hand smoke isn't harmful? lol. Good luck getting into dental school that's all I have to say.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2009
- Messages
- 121
- Reaction score
- 0
haven't smoked since jan 3rd and i feel great
smoking cigs are clearly bad for you and those in direct contact with it. It took me a solid year and a half to beat them and stop.
smoking cigs are clearly bad for you and those in direct contact with it. It took me a solid year and a half to beat them and stop.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2009
- Messages
- 167
- Reaction score
- 0
I'm going to go off on a tangent.. not taking any sides between smokers and non-smokers... I've done 3 years of research on the effects of Nicotine on learning and memory... What my study concluded was that Nicotine does show positive correlation with enhanced learning and memory in rats. Maybe those pre-dents + pre-meds are trying to enhance their learning and memory!??!!>??
LOL. Or Maybe it's just a habit?? Lol. However, 10-day and 30-day nicotine withdrawal decreased learning and memory below baseline control 
. So don't stop smoking right before your NBDE!most schools will have a code of conduct. This will include "not having bad odors" They told us not to eat onions or garlic if we r in clinic. So if you do smoke you know the risks just like anything else, but I would imagine a dental student would try to get the smell out of their cloths and mouth to be professional. Plus the professors will judge you if u do smoke and they r the ones that give the grades out....and grades r not only based on academic performance but professionalism in the classroom.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2009
- Messages
- 167
- Reaction score
- 0
I don't know any pre-dents that smoke, but I have seen dental student outside of a dental school smoking.. Had to look at least three times because I couldn't believe it either. I'm not judgmental, I was just shocked/surprised, that's all.
But I do know two pre-med students who have been taking steroids now for about 2 years... Their bodies increased in size by about 50%, it's funny too because each one of them has now this giant head, wide neck, acne.. you name it. If this wasn't hypocritical enough.. they tend to talk about how healthy they eat and how much they work out.. I guess they assume their pre-med/pre-dental class mates must be complete *****s with no common sense.. 🙄
But I do know two pre-med students who have been taking steroids now for about 2 years... Their bodies increased in size by about 50%, it's funny too because each one of them has now this giant head, wide neck, acne.. you name it. If this wasn't hypocritical enough.. they tend to talk about how healthy they eat and how much they work out.. I guess they assume their pre-med/pre-dental class mates must be complete *****s with no common sense.. 🙄
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 95
- Reaction score
- 0
Oh good. Is it cool if I come smoke around your baby then?
Why do people have to make ridiculous statements when posting on SDN. First of all, just because you smoke doesn't mean you are a loser or *****. Many successful, intelligent people have, do and will smoke. Also, it doesn't help your argument to go name calling.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2008
- Messages
- 1,387
- Reaction score
- 5
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2009
- Messages
- 84
- Reaction score
- 2
Totally cool, since SHS doesn't exist, I don't see a problem
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2009
- Messages
- 167
- Reaction score
- 0
Haha, Game Over.<<------
Where the heck did you get that little Icon? That is sooooo funny! lol
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2008
- Messages
- 99
- Reaction score
- 0
this is unbelievable...I bet you could "quit whenever u wanted" right?
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
- Messages
- 412
- Reaction score
- 6
There is an awful lot of self righteousness in this thread. I don't condone smoking in the least and think it is an awful life choice (and, for full disclosure, am fighting a smoking addiction myself), but unless one lives the perfect life and has the perfect body, one should not critisize others' life choices.
If you drink anything containing caffiene or high fructose corn syrup, are the least bit overweight, do not exercise at least thirty minutes a day, drink alcohol, get less than 8 hours of sleep a night, eat processed foods (fast food, chips, cookies, anything 'conveniently' packaged, etc.), do not eat your daily allowance of the basic food groups (as designated by the Big Brother food pyramid), lay out in the sun, drink less than 6-8 glasses of water a day, etc., etc., etc., then you too are participating in risky behavior. 😀
Not to mention the pollution we all have to deal with when we drive a car, use electrcity from a fossil fuel source, or even cook a shrimp on the Barbie...
Please step down from the soapbox...
If you drink anything containing caffiene or high fructose corn syrup, are the least bit overweight, do not exercise at least thirty minutes a day, drink alcohol, get less than 8 hours of sleep a night, eat processed foods (fast food, chips, cookies, anything 'conveniently' packaged, etc.), do not eat your daily allowance of the basic food groups (as designated by the Big Brother food pyramid), lay out in the sun, drink less than 6-8 glasses of water a day, etc., etc., etc., then you too are participating in risky behavior. 😀
Not to mention the pollution we all have to deal with when we drive a car, use electrcity from a fossil fuel source, or even cook a shrimp on the Barbie...
Please step down from the soapbox...
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2008
- Messages
- 971
- Reaction score
- 3
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2007
- Messages
- 45
- Reaction score
- 0
but this thread is about smoking. the people who do not condone smoking may well have made choices that are wrong, but on this thread we are talking about the wrongdoing in smoking. So this is like saying, I don't want to take the advice about having to quit smoking from people because people are not perfect, and I am not perfect, therefore I should not listen to people no matter how right their advice may be. So basically, smokers will not listen to anybody, because the same guy giving advice to smokers eats processed food therefore it makes his point invalid because he is also doing something stupid. please explain to us in what way this justifies smoking
in the end, none of us are perfect. but i thought we are all friends and friends help each other 😛
in the end, none of us are perfect. but i thought we are all friends and friends help each other 😛
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
- Messages
- 412
- Reaction score
- 6
I am all for friends helping friends, but I have not seen any supportive posts in this thread. There are some neutral posts and strong arguments, some straw man arguments, and a good amount of bickering and name calling. But no posts providing support or advice for quitting smoking.
There is no justification for smoking, just as their is no justification for drinking alcohol, caffeine, or eating a bag of cheetos. All are bad for us, but they make us feel good in one way or another and we should be free to choose as we wish.
Very few of us (if any) live perfectly healthy lives. With that in mind, nonsmokers should not criticize smokers anymore than a non-caffeine drinker should criticize a caffeine drinker or than a vegetarian should criticize an omnivore/carnivore (or vice versa).
I brought up dietary habits, because heart disease is (by far) the leading killer in the U.S (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/lcod.htm). I see similarities between smoking and an unhealthy diet in the following way. The consequences of both do not appear until later in life (for most people). A single cigarette or a single bacon cheeseburger may appear harmless at the time, but add up the number of unhealthy choices we make over a lifetime we will find ourselves at age 60+ with blackened, tumorous lungs and/or an enlarged heart and hardened arteries.
As my wife says (and we all learned in kindergarten), "keep your eyes on your own paper." Live your own life to the best of your ability and don't judge or chastise others because their life choices differ from yours. We all have much greater worries than whether or not our 'neighbor' smokes.
I could continue on about how the monkey of addiction overrides all logic, common sense, and intelligence, alas I have babbled on long enough...
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2009
- Messages
- 424
- Reaction score
- 2
hey guys,
I am just scanning through the posts and one thing pops out to me...
how come soda is being compared to smoking?
if you are just thinking about addiction, smoking is the habit that is hard to break.
i understand that soda drinking and smoking is both bad for teeth which is why you would want to avoid them as a dentist, but one can quit soda drinking or drink with a straw to reduce darkening of teeth.
so why the comparison of the two?
(I would ask the same for coffee - but I know people will say that they can get addicted to coffee - however, coffee drinkers are in no threat of OD and there are no side effects down the road that I know of =\ )
I am just scanning through the posts and one thing pops out to me...
how come soda is being compared to smoking?
if you are just thinking about addiction, smoking is the habit that is hard to break.
i understand that soda drinking and smoking is both bad for teeth which is why you would want to avoid them as a dentist, but one can quit soda drinking or drink with a straw to reduce darkening of teeth.
so why the comparison of the two?
(I would ask the same for coffee - but I know people will say that they can get addicted to coffee - however, coffee drinkers are in no threat of OD and there are no side effects down the road that I know of =\ )
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,154
- Reaction score
- 73
