Aug 5, 2017
1
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Status
Attending Physician
Does anybody want " out" of a program. By that I mean you may have found yourself spending many years in training. you have been through 5 years of AP/CP plus 2 or more fellowships and there does not seem to be a real job insight. you may have a title of "Senior Chief fellow" but in reality you are still a resident this is sometimes especially true for Female Residents and IMG In a way you are being exploited so that is why I post this. a) I do not think females should be " used" and not be promoted to Attending and b) I do not want an IMG to get despondent and end up murdering a faculty member which is what happened at UWASH and the tragic dearth of Dr Haggit, a noted GI pathologist I believe the job market is still difficult. I believe with Medicare cuts , Insurance cuts, poor showing in the Match that pathology programs may soon be cut or in some case closed. so I suggest these 2 options if nay one--even a program director--is facing a cutback

a) Get an MHA or MBA degree and go into Hospital administration. They have " entree" programs that you spend each Friday an alternative Saturdays such that it is completed in 18 months. i know " Our lady of the lake College" in Houston,TX has it. I would rather have someone get into that then waste countless years in pathology with multiple fellowships hoping a " retirement cliff" occurs and they finally get a job. that is like saying you will win the lottery. the so called retirement cliff will not occur. Why? a) we live longer and people still work into their 80's and 90's b) automation and obsolete technology like the PAP test shall be replaced by newer molecular tests that do not use outdated pathology training c) cutback of insurance and revenues such that a typical 4 person group late looses a person would rather be a 3 person group than add on another to keep the bottom line up and d) predator labs that constantly search for the lucrative practices and buy them out--they out maneuver and out negotiate any outfit so that any academic professor type or someone from a residency does not stand a chance to get the position. a hospital looks to the bottom line not your skills as a pathologist. so wise up the retirement cliff will not occur. get into administration many of these people make into the 6 and 7 figures. I had a friend who was a neurosurgeon and burned out on it at age 45 , he got some new training and now is a successful CEO of an HMO in the Phoenix area. so even at age 45 it can be done--listen up you program directors that hear that your program may closed with poor showings in the Match

b) consider getting an MPH and get into Epidemiology and Public Health. Set your sites on a job at the CDC or the Untied Nations . the later jobs are usually posted at magazines like "The Economist". Realize that UN salaries are TAX FREE OF ANY GOVERNMENT so if you see a price quote of 90,000 EUROS as some Global health coordinator it will have the buying power of about $200,000 You will be involved with the " Big picture" of health care and that to me is more important than " slaving away" to get Cyto -pathology boards in a field in which the PAP test shall be obsolete in 10 years--replaced by HPV testing

In short ask yourself if after 5 years of residency and 1 or 2 fellowships is there a future or are you being used? this is especially so if you are a Female or an IMG. would one of these above options be better for you? True , you can consider just doing research at some academic place but if you see the Big picture and like administrative work , then maybe the above would be better. If you are a program director fighting at all costs to keep the programs viable may just be " arranging deck chairs on the Titanic" it likely will be cut back or closed with the changes in health care. so ask yourself these questions don't just blindly assume there is some magic job on the horizon in just a few years--just a few years may never come and perhaps you are in denial. all the best for listening to me
 
Jul 20, 2017
7
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Status
Resident [Any Field]
If you want to get an MBA and go into business, you need to go to a top 10-20 (top 10 is significantly better than top 20) business school. Our Lady of the Lake College in Louisiana just will not cut it.....waste of time.
 

hurtem&healem

2+ Year Member
Jul 18, 2014
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the land of the ice and snow
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I don't understand, why is the job market worse for women?

Also, I'm pretty certain it doesn't matter where your money comes from, if you are a US citizen, you have to pay federal income tax.
 

pathslides

2+ Year Member
Aug 7, 2016
244
128
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Attending Physician
I don't want out. Path is great. It wasn't too hard to find a job. Maybe for a complete social lunatic like yourself it was hard to find and keep jobs. But not me or many others I know.
 
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WEBB PINKERTON

7+ Year Member
Dec 16, 2010
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Not sure i would take advice from this guy. But I do agree to stay away from cytopathology. :D
 
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WEBB PINKERTON

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Dec 16, 2010
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Sorry. Didn't mean to quote Webb
That's ok, I wouldn't hire me either to be honest.

This Arthur Copeland guy seems to be struggling to find work thus all the postings under multiple names.

Rao, five others apply to be Jacksonville chief medical examiner

Arthur R. Copeland has worked since May 2002 as an expert witness, according to his LinkedIn profile. He’s published 73 journal articles according to his C.V. and he has a guide for pathologists coming out in April, according to Amazon. He cites a Ph.D. in molecular biology, in addition to his medical degree. He was last a pathologist in Houston from July 1994 until May 2002.In his cover letter, he specified that he has no medical malpractice suits or criminal arrests. He also has “no ties to organized crime and no ties to drug cartels.”
 

mikesheree

Lifetime Donor
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7+ Year Member
Feb 27, 2010
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NOT behind a scope.
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Attending Physician
That's ok, I wouldn't hire me either to be honest.

This Arthur Copeland guy seems to be struggling to find work thus all the postings under multiple names.

Rao, five others apply to be Jacksonville chief medical examiner

Arthur R. Copeland has worked since May 2002 as an expert witness, according to his LinkedIn profile. He’s published 73 journal articles according to his C.V. and he has a guide for pathologists coming out in April, according to Amazon. He cites a Ph.D. in molecular biology, in addition to his medical degree. He was last a pathologist in Houston from July 1994 until May 2002.In his cover letter, he specified that he has no medical malpractice suits or criminal arrests. He also has “no ties to organized crime and no ties to drug cartels.”
Seems to be another head case. These folks just drift around the fringe of the field (and this board). I suspect a legit personality disorder or an Aspberger's/autism syndrome causes lots of these sad cases.
 
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octopusprime

2+ Year Member
May 6, 2016
203
130
Status
Attending Physician
I don't understand, why is the job market worse for women?

Also, I'm pretty certain it doesn't matter where your money comes from, if you are a US citizen, you have to pay federal income tax.
If it is it's because when that woman inevitably gets pregnant and/or wants to cut hours to 7/8 or 3/4 or 1/2 time, it's the rest of the department/practice that picks up the slack for 2mos, 4mos, or longer in the case of cutting back. that's the way it is.
I'm not saying that bitterly, or in a sexist manner, just as a hard fact of reality. that reality isn't confined to medicine or pathology, but it's more impactful on small private entities that are comprised of ~<10 people.
 

LADoc00

Gen X, the last great generation
10+ Year Member
Sep 9, 2004
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Attending Physician
Not 100% what the OP is even really saying. I also feel dumber for having read it and then re-read trying to comprehend it....