Does applying for MD/PhD programs hurt your chances...

[ravupadh]

of getting into the MD program alone in case you're rejected from the MD/PhD dual program? I know some schools accept you separately for each program, but for those that evaluate you together for the program how much of a setback is it if you get rejected and are put in the regular applicant list? This is really the main reason why I'm deliberating about applying to these programs really.

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[a532]

One thing to consider is that if you do get rejected from MD/PhD, the rejection will usually come early spring. If you then defer to the MD pool, you are at a technical disadvantage because of how late you are in the process; many seats will have already been taken by the time you are deferred for MD consideration.

You may also want to articulate to yourself if you really want to do the MD/PhD, and if so, the reasons you would want to do a straight MD. There is the issue of commitment.

 

[ravupadh]

Hmm good point. I do really want to do an MD/PhD because research is my forte but if it puts me at a disadvantage I really don't want to risk it. I mean if my stats were phenomenol I wouldn't mind applying to all MD/PhD programs but I think I'm just going to apply for MD programs and apply for those MD/PhD programs that have you accepted into each program separately. The good thing is that a lot of these schools allow you to apply to the MD/PhD program once you get in to the MD portion so I guess that's another option.

 

[Neuronix]

Applying MD/PhD hurts if not kills your chances at MD at that school for the majority of programs. There are exceptions, and I ran into them when I applied, but I don't want to comment on particulars because that was ~10 years ago and those programs may have changed.

For this reason, I generally recommend picking MD or MD/PhD and sticking with it. Have we discussed your stats before? Often times the paranoia applicants have about not being good enough is not justified. That being said, your safest bet is to apply to a number of MD/PhD programs and a number of MD programs if you do want to apply to both.

 

[mcat45]

This question comes up alot. Unfortunately, many MSTP programs are not very forthcoming about this information. I think the main reason is that schools really want applicants to choose one way or another and because the pursuit of an MD/PhD requires significant commitment, schools probably see an MD/PhD applicant that would consider MD only as not truly being committed to an MD/PhD (at leas that's my take on it). However, I can certainly think of cases (such as low academic stats, highly specialized research interest only available at a few schools, regional constraints (you are going to be stuck there for 7-8 years), etc.) where an applicant would possibly need to apply and/or be considered by both MD and MD/PhD programs. In any case, the best thing would be to generate a list of schools. Maybe, if we're lucky one of the people very knowledgeable about the MSTP admissions process (*cough* Maebea, *cough* Ombret....will share some information):

* list based on personal research on sdn (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=721028) and elsewhere

Schools where you are considered separately and simultaneously for MD and MD/PhD (no disadvantage to MD application for applying MD/PhD):
1. UCSF
2. Harvard
3. UChicago *(You are considered first for MD then passed on the MSTP, so there does not appear to be any relative disadvantage).
4. Stanford
5. Columbia (*according to mcmcdowe in the Columbia 2011-2012 secondary thread-see post 34)
6. University of Michigan
7. Baylor
8. WashU

Schools where you are considered for the MD ONLY after being rejected for the MD/PhD (so applying MD/PhD puts MD only application at disadvantage)
1. UCLA
2. UCSD
3. Hopkins* (with the following caveat: a student is not automatically reviewed for MD-only admissions if they are rejected for the MD-PhD Program. Exceptional students will be passed on to the Medical School Admissions Committee, however this is by no means guaranteed.)
4. Cornell (If you are rejected from the MD/PhD program, the program will forward your application and supplemental materials to Medical College Office of Admissions. Applicants who remain seriously interested in the regular MD program should confirm their interest by notifying the Office of Admissions. )

Schools where you will not be considered for MD only after being rejected from the MSTP Programs
1. UPenn
2.

that's all I know......further contributions are welcome.

 

[Choculitis]

Thanks a ton for that research. Other schools that look like they're in the...

First category:
Duke — http://mstp.duke.edu/admission/transfer-md-only-consideration

2nd category:
Yale — "If you are not invited to interview for the MD/PhD Program, your application will still be considered for admission as a regular medical student."
Mount Sinai

3rd category:
University of Washington — I don't know if they transfer to MD-only or not, but even if they do, it's virtually impossible to get in unless you're from Washington or one of the surrounding states

 

[PfNO22]

University of Washington — I don't know if they transfer to MD-only or not, but even if they do, it's virtually impossible to get in unless you're from Washington or one of the surrounding states

Automatically considered for MD only, automatically rejected except for URMs, disadvantaged applicants and WWAMI states (WA, WY, AK, MT, ID)

 

[ravupadh]

Wow thanks guys! They should reall have a sticky for this since it's really confusing.

 

[s3dition]

just wanted to bump this thread in case anybody had any updates. apologies if there's a similar thread already that i didn't find. are the schools listed above still part of those categories?

 

[luvscience]

First category: Most non-mstp programs (UIUC)
Second: WashU, U of Iowa, Baylor, Case Western (only university track, college track is a separate application I think), UC Irvine

The second category can be the worst... Gives you a chance to be rejected twice

Good luck!!

 

[Fencer]

For Texas MD/PhD applicants (AMCAS) who are from out-of state and also applied for MD programs (TMDSAS) of the UT system (UTHSC-H, UT-MB, UTHSC-SA, UT-SW), it is quite the contrary, double opportunity. All interviewed applicants are ranked. Many out-of state applicants who will not have been interviewed for the MD programs because of the 90% rule of in-state matriculation rule [leading to 15-30% acceptance rate compared to Texas residents (30-50%)]. However, if you are interviewed by these UT system MD/PhD programs, out-of state applicants are also interviewed for MD. Interviews can tilt the table for some out-of state applicants who would otherwise not be invited, and might get these out-of-state candidates a MD slot. In-state MD/PhD applicants with no offers participate in the TMDSAS match, thus, there is more paperwork, little harm, and two (at bat) opportunities to get in.

 

[mentalhypoxia]

This question comes up alot. Unfortunately, many MSTP programs are not very forthcoming about this information. I think the main reason is that schools really want applicants to choose one way or another and because the pursuit of an MD/PhD requires significant commitment, schools probably see an MD/PhD applicant that would consider MD only as not truly being committed to an MD/PhD (at leas that's my take on it). However, I can certainly think of cases (such as low academic stats, highly specialized research interest only available at a few schools, regional constraints (you are going to be stuck there for 7-8 years), etc.) where an applicant would possibly need to apply and/or be considered by both MD and MD/PhD programs. In any case, the best thing would be to generate a list of schools. Maybe, if we're lucky one of the people very knowledgeable about the MSTP admissions process (*cough* Maebea, *cough* Ombret....will share some information):

* list based on personal research on sdn (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=721028) and elsewhere

Schools where you are considered separately and simultaneously for MD and MD/PhD (no disadvantage to MD application for applying MD/PhD):
1. UCSF
2. Harvard
3. UChicago *(You are considered first for MD then passed on the MSTP, so there does not appear to be any relative disadvantage).
4. Stanford
5. Columbia (*according to mcmcdowe in the Columbia 2011-2012 secondary thread-see post 34)
6. University of Michigan
7. Baylor
8. WashU

Schools where you are considered for the MD ONLY after being rejected for the MD/PhD (so applying MD/PhD puts MD only application at disadvantage)
1. UCLA
2. UCSD
3. Hopkins* (with the following caveat: a student is not automatically reviewed for MD-only admissions if they are rejected for the MD-PhD Program. Exceptional students will be passed on to the Medical School Admissions Committee, however this is by no means guaranteed.)
4. Cornell (If you are rejected from the MD/PhD program, the program will forward your application and supplemental materials to Medical College Office of Admissions. Applicants who remain seriously interested in the regular MD program should confirm their interest by notifying the Office of Admissions. )

Schools where you will not be considered for MD only after being rejected from the MSTP Programs
1. UPenn
2.

that's all I know......further contributions are welcome.

To add to this list:

1st category:
Stony Brook
Drexel
(this is what I understood from their website FAQs)

 

[kfre2435]

This question comes up alot. Unfortunately, many MSTP programs are not very forthcoming about this information. I think the main reason is that schools really want applicants to choose one way or another and because the pursuit of an MD/PhD requires significant commitment, schools probably see an MD/PhD applicant that would consider MD only as not truly being committed to an MD/PhD (at leas that's my take on it). However, I can certainly think of cases (such as low academic stats, highly specialized research interest only available at a few schools, regional constraints (you are going to be stuck there for 7-8 years), etc.) where an applicant would possibly need to apply and/or be considered by both MD and MD/PhD programs. In any case, the best thing would be to generate a list of schools. Maybe, if we're lucky one of the people very knowledgeable about the MSTP admissions process (*cough* Maebea, *cough* Ombret....will share some information):

* list based on personal research on sdn (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=721028) and elsewhere

Schools where you are considered separately and simultaneously for MD and MD/PhD (no disadvantage to MD application for applying MD/PhD):
1. UCSF
2. Harvard
3. UChicago *(You are considered first for MD then passed on the MSTP, so there does not appear to be any relative disadvantage).
4. Stanford
5. Columbia (*according to mcmcdowe in the Columbia 2011-2012 secondary thread-see post 34)
6. University of Michigan
7. Baylor
8. WashU

Schools where you are considered for the MD ONLY after being rejected for the MD/PhD (so applying MD/PhD puts MD only application at disadvantage)
1. UCLA
2. UCSD
3. Hopkins* (with the following caveat: a student is not automatically reviewed for MD-only admissions if they are rejected for the MD-PhD Program. Exceptional students will be passed on to the Medical School Admissions Committee, however this is by no means guaranteed.)
4. Cornell (If you are rejected from the MD/PhD program, the program will forward your application and supplemental materials to Medical College Office of Admissions. Applicants who remain seriously interested in the regular MD program should confirm their interest by notifying the Office of Admissions. )

Schools where you will not be considered for MD only after being rejected from the MSTP Programs
1. UPenn
2.

that's all I know......further contributions are welcome.

UIC keeps them separate too
Texas SW will if you submit a separate app

Most schools will consider you after a rejection from MSTP, but as others said, it really is late in the cycle.

A few not mentioned will consider if requested:
Vanderbilt.
Colorado-Denver
Einstein

Minnesota will not
Penn will not
Washington will not
North Carolina will not

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgOhxhn5ETj8dGhOallkTmJYak83ZTFETXBneWttTWc#gid=0

 

[BruinBear13]

First category: Most non-mstp programs (UIUC)
Second: WashU, U of Iowa, Baylor, Case Western (only university track, college track is a separate application I think), UC Irvine

The second category can be the worst... Gives you a chance to be rejected twice

Good luck!!

Can someone confirm that applying MSTP at UC Irvine puts you at a disadvantage to MD-only? I have asked the MSTP office and this is the answer I got:

"We try to make sure that applicants are not disadvantaged for regular admissions when applying for the MSTP. If an applicant is selected for an interview by the MSTP admissions committee, then the application is reviewed independently by both the MSTP admissions committee and the medical school admissions committee following the interview. The two reviews take place at about the same time, so an applicant can be accepted by the regular committee while the MSTP committee is still deliberating."

The MD admission office said that MSTP applicants are not at a disadvantage if rejected from the PhD program...

Unfortunately, I take what they say with a grain of salt because they would want as many people as possible to apply to their program..