Does applying MD only and MSTP jeapoardize chances at MSTP?

[UIUC2008]

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What is the general consensus on this? Does it jeapordize my chances at other MSTPs? I have a couple of schools whose MSTP programs I am somewhat ambivalent about, but whose MD programs are excellent. Don't get me wrong- I'm still committed to academic medicine and research for my career, but I know that this process is unpredictable enough that I may not get offers at my top MSTP choices and need to realistically consider things- ie attend MD program and do fellowship. Do admissions committees have access to the sorts of applications that I put out, and to where I applied? Science magainze says the following in their "faq for MD/PhD applicants" (authored by some directors of major programs)

Is it okay to apply "MD-only" at some schools and "MD/PhD" at others?

Yes. But consider what your motives are for doing that. Is it because you are uncertain about which type of program you want? Is it a strategy to make sure you have been admitted somewhere for something? If you are invited for an interview by an MD/PhD program, members of the admissions committee may want you to explain your reasons.

How would the admissions committee have access to this information? As previously stated, does applying to a mix hurt my chances?
http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.or...cles/2660/an_faq_for_md_phd_applicants#mdonly

PS- Yes i know i misspelled "jeopardize..."

 

[Inuranic]

Schools cannot see where else/what else you applied for. This was a rumor on SDN for awhile - calls were made to AMCAS and it was confirmed that where you apply is your business.

Adcoms will only know if you tell them. Do what you feel you should do.

 

[UIUC2008]

Hmm...then what is the basis for the statement in that sciencemag faq? you'll notice that one of the authors is skip brass, director of Upenn's MSTP.

 

[OncDoc19]

Hmm...then what is the basis for the statement in that sciencemag faq? you'll notice that one of the authors is skip brass, director of Upenn's MSTP.

I think the problem could come only at places where you put MD or MD/PhD. I don't believe that schools can see where else you applied and to which programs, but your motives and committment could be questioned at the places you applied MD or MSTP. I know its risky, but if there was a choice I always picked MSTP only. I am fully committed to MD/PhD and wouldn't want programs to think otherwise.

 

[UIUC2008]

Haha, I see where you are coming from, but it would be pretty twisted of medical school adcoms to put what is effectively a "trap answer" on the application to divine your commitment level. I think that schools (WashU is the only one to my knowledge) do that to save themselves the time of reviewing your application for MD only, and also to spare you the necessity of shelling out cash and time for an interview.

Also, you'll note that the sciencemag article refers to "applying to regular MD at some places and MSTP at others" and not designating multiple possibilities at one given institution as you had stated. The only school that asks you where you applied to med school is Duke...maybe their admissions dean helped author that faq?

 

[pkr]

dude, i don't think it's a big deal whether you apply for mdphd or md...it's not like they're that different. if you want to do academic medicine or a mixture of research and clinical work, both are great options, and i think it is perfectly reasonable to apply to both. my PI, actually, has been implying to me that he thinks mdphd is unreasonably long and md is fine for research, and when he applied as a college student, he applied both md and mdphd (he is an md himself though he currently does 100% research and 0% clinical).

so i think there are good reasons to apply to both md and mdphd, including taking advantage of strengths of individual schools and keeping your options open. if you truly want both md and mdphd because you can see that either program can get you to the same goal, then you wouldn't have a problem defending your choice at either md or mdphd at interviews. and admissions committees would not know your other applications and you are not obligated to disclose either.

so in the end...the question is why do you want to do both md and md phd? if you have good reasons, then go for it!

people on this board are pretty intense about mdphd, and seem to have committed their lives to it, but remember that mdphd is just a path to get where you want to go...and a pretty long and winding path, of course 🙂.

 

[Neuronix]

What is the general consensus on this?

I'm not sure there is one. The first question you brought up, how do schools know where you applied? The standard answer is that they don't. I don't entirely believe this. But, is your AMCAS information shared? No. Can schools still communicate with each other under the table? Sure.

Barring that, how else would they know? Well I was asked numerous times in interviews. You can skirt the question or refuse to answer, but that's going to be shady in your interviewer's mind. I was asked directly several times if I only applied MD/PhD. The MD/PhD is a long training route and adcoms want to make sure you've committed yourself to it. The desired attitude by many adcoms these days is "I will get into an MD/PhD program or bust" and there's a lot of factors driving that.

The biggest factor is that the programs don't want dropouts and they maybe even want to produce scientists eventually, not majority-time clinicians. Can you do this with an MD? Maybe. Do medical schools view MD/PhD as the default research pathway in medicine now and MD as the default clinician pathway? I think it's getting to that point.

Pretty much every academic is going to tell you that getting your MD/PhD at almost any US school is going to be better for your residency applications and research future than getting an MD at almost any US school. The prestige of your MD program matters so little it's almost inconsequential. So why would you apply to MD schools on top of MD/PhD schools? If you are qualified for MD/PhD (research and relatively high stats) you will get in MD/PhD somewhere. The candidate who would take a MD at a school just because it has a 20 spots higher ranking isn't desired.

As for the people on this board being committed to MD/PhD, some are some aren't. I like to try to keep myself as neutral as possible. Program directors and adcoms... They have very single minded views about producing 100% basic science committed MD/PhD students and if that's not good for you, what are you doing here? If that's not your attitude, maybe you should apply MD. That's what the FAQ is trying to tell you.

 

[UIUC2008]

I should clarify my situation a little bit...I'm applying to ~10 MSTP programs (most all of them top programs), but I'm only thinking of switching one of them to regular MD, because I've discovered it doesn't really suit my specific research interests very well. However, the clinical training at this school is excellent, and I would want to at least keep it in the cards when im deciding. That said, I would take an MSTP offer from any of my others schools over MD only at this school.

I'm from a large public school (UIUC), 3.9 GPA, 35 MCAT, with 3 yrs research experience, and a little bit of volutneering/clinical.

 

[STLRamsfan1986]

your stats seem reasonably strong enough that i think you should be able to get into some decent programs whatever way you decide to go...

 

[shalangsta]

Hey,

I want to apply to some top md/phd schools, however they are really hard to get into. I think I would have a pretty decent shot if i applied just MD, 3.9 GPA, MCATS will be found out soon, expecting 34+, and 3 years research. But if not accepted into MD/PhD, why would a school give you MD acceptance b/c wouldn't they just think your gonna turn it down anway b/c chances are you will get in somewhere? (I know of second chance's after first/second year, so going in MD only may be a risk that pays off in the end).

Just a note, my friend whose md/phd either got accepted, rejected from programs or waitlisted, he did not receive ANY MD only acceptances, any thoughts on if this was just coincidental? are there any people out there who have gotten MD only acceptance after apply MD/PhD

 

[Picklesali]

Yes, it does happen. Anecdotally, I personally know someone who got did not get accepted to JHU MSTP but got accepted to the MD. He turned it down for Penn where he got the MSTP. I think a lot depends on the individual candidate. Did your friend have adequate clinical experience to recommend him for the MD only programs?