Does dropping out of a MD/PhD program hurt path chances?

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Chrismander

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Hi--I dropped my MD/PhD program because I don't see myself entering academic medicine (or at least academic research, I love teaching), and didn't want to spend 3 more years plugging away on a project I wasn't in love with. Will this hurt my chances if I apply to pathology?
 
Chrismander said:
Hi--I dropped my MD/PhD program because I don't see myself entering academic medicine (or at least academic research, I love teaching), and didn't want to spend 3 more years plugging away on a project I wasn't in love with. Will this hurt my chances if I apply to pathology?
No. Having a PhD is a bonus and not some necessity for path programs.
 
Yeah, I guess my question is whether having been in an MD/PhD program and then exited puts me on the level of someone who never tried for it in the first place, or lower, since I'm a "quitter", and because research is near and dear to the hearts of path people--whether they'll question my committment to pathology as well, since it's a lab science. Thoughts?
 
Chrismander said:
Yeah, I guess my question is whether having been in an MD/PhD program and then exited puts me on the level of someone who never tried for it in the first place, or lower, since I'm a "quitter", and because research is near and dear to the hearts of path people--whether they'll question my committment to pathology as well, since it's a lab science. Thoughts?
I know how you feel but at the same time, I think you may be overestimating the attachment pathologists have to research. That being said, a few people may care but I don't think dropping out of your MD/PhD program will necessarily hurt your chances IF you dropped out for the right reasons. For instance, some folks realize during grad school that research is not right for them. That's fine and understandable. On the other hand, if one dropped out of the program right after completing the first 2 years of med school and not having done any grad school work, some may question your character.

Now, does quitting the MD/PhD program put you at a level of a straight MD candidate who never enrolled in an MD/PhD program. Well, that's tough to answer and it probably depends on the breadth of your research experience. If you did quite a bit of research before dropping out, I don't think your research will be discounted by residency programs. Especially, if you published or presented some of your work during your curtailed PhD training, that will help you. If not, that may be a different story. Remember, a subset of straight MD folks who apply to pathology do summer research or even a year of research. I think your competitiveness may be at a similar level to this pool of applicants but you should still have an edge over straight MD folks who did absolutely no research (not like that is some requirement for pathology residency because at this state of "competitiveness" for path programs these days, it certainly is not a huge issue).

You may still feel uneasy about this but let me put this out there. I know two people who dropped out of their MSTP programs and matched into path the same year I matched. One of them was still interested in doing some research--basic or translational--in the long run. And that's great because you certainly don't need no PhD to do science...you can do this as an MD. The other person was not. They didn't seem to be at a disadvantage and they matched at great programs (granted, my sample population to base this on is only N=2).

You're right, pathology is a laboratory based field. But pathology is NOT lab SCIENCE. Pathology is lab MEDICINE. If you finish med school and are genuinely interested in pathology (and you communicate this during your interviews), people should not question your commitment to residency. Remember, pathologists who commit themselves to signout work are clinicians, not scientists. They deal with patient care issues and their work is service work.

Science and clinical work are very distinct realms, even in the context of pathology.
 
Chrismander said:
Yeah, I guess my question is whether having been in an MD/PhD program and then exited puts me on the level of someone who never tried for it in the first place, or lower, since I'm a "quitter", and because research is near and dear to the hearts of path people--whether they'll question my committment to pathology as well, since it's a lab science. Thoughts?

Answer:No

A better ? is whether HAVING a PhD hurts your chances of a private practice gig should you decide to leave academia, answer: Probably yes. The real world very much subscribes to the philosophy that someone can be overeducated for their daily tasks. Also I believe you CAN suceed very nicely in research in academia or industry by doing a solid postdoc after your MD. I think alot of people use the PhD portion of an MDPhD to get free education and honestly I cant blame them. I dropped my PhD after a year and looking back, it was one of the smartest things I did in medicine.

I also wanted to add that earlier in my career I screened and interviewed applicants for a top supposedly research oriented residency program and unless the research was totally stellar (like a Cell/Nature/Science paper+ level), it had almost zero bearing on their chances to rank. That was a serious eye opener for me.

do research because you love it, not because people will give a damn, because they wont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
AndyMilonakis said:
I know how you feel but at the same time, I think you may be overestimating the attachment pathologists have to research... You're right, pathology is a laboratory based field. But pathology is NOT lab SCIENCE. Pathology is lab MEDICINE... Science and clinical work are very distinct realms, even in the context of pathology.

Totally agree. There is a big difference between being a scientist and being a doctor. Pathologists are doctors.
 
Chrismander said:
Will this hurt my chances if I apply to pathology?

i don't think it will hurt your chances at all, as long as you have a coherent and convincing way of describing why you quit. for example, the fact that you realized early on that it wasn't for you probably shows introspection, intelligence, strength (as much as it sounds counter-intuitive, it took guts to quit) and ability to look to the future, your future in particular. you can still be interested in academic medicine (read academic, i.e. teaching) and not necessarily do any basic science research and get a spot for residency and even a job later at one of the most "academic" path departments.
 
LADoc00 said:
Also I believe you CAN suceed very nicely in research in academia or industry by doing a solid postdoc after your MD. I think alot of people use the PhD portion of an MDPhD to get free education and honestly I cant blame them.
I agree. The PhD can be a trap especially if you took more than 4 years to get the PhD. I mean, hell, that's like 9+ years in school (med + grad) and that's long and frustrating! It's always been a little pet theory of mine that an MSTP grad's outlook on science is inversely proportional to the time spent doing the MD/PhD. Finish the PhD quickly and you're full of confidence and life is great and you love science. Spend a decade in the lab...different story, probably end up being burned out (can't blame them one damn bit!) and never wanna be near the bench again. As for the money issue, I won't lie...it's nice to go through med school and be completely debt free and have quite a bit of money saved up too! I've always wanted to buy that used 1988 Honda Accord with over 150,000 miles on it! It's been a dream of mine and it's been realized!
LaDocOO said:
I dropped my PhD after a year and looking back, it was one of the smartest things I did in medicine.
deschutes, please give him a cookie. you have authoritaaah.
LADocOO said:
I also wanted to add that earlier in my career I screened and interviewed applicants for a top supposedly research oriented residency program and unless the research was totally stellar (like a Cell/Nature/Science paper+ level), it had almost zero bearing on their chances to rank. That was a serious eye opener for me.
Honestly, I find that hard to believe. Back in your day, pathology really wasn't competitive and I'm sure a FEBS Letters or BBRC paper could help your chances big time! Sure, a Cell/Science/Nature publication could ensure that you got your pick of residency programs...and I still think that is true to this day.
LaDocOO said:
do research because you love it, not because people will give a damn, because they wont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely true. The only people who will give a damn are people in your field. Everyone else won't give a flying fart...unless you make some huge breakthrough discovery which requires 99.9% serendipity anyway. Definitely do research because you love it...and that is the case for me. Unlike service work, I like the fact that research is a selfish venture...I come up with questions, I devise a plan of attack, I do the experiments, I get the answers, and I feel good that I solved something. If people happen to think the work is important, that's just icing on the cake.
 
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