Does it ever bother you when...

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kayakman28

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I'm just wondering if anyone else is bothered by people who say they want to become a veterinarian but it is painstakingly obvious that they have ZERO idea about the whole process?

Today was the first day of class for Animal Histology and we all had to say something about ourselves. Out of 13 people in the class (not including me), 4 said they were going to Vet School. Naturally I had to ask if they had applied. All 4 were juniors/seniors and had no idea about the application process. No one had any animal experience either.

Although they have no real chance (for the next foreseeable cycles), it just gets under my skin. This is part rant & part curiosity.

What are your thoughts on people who "want to go to Vet School" but will clearly never make it?
 
I'm just wondering if anyone else is bothered by people who say they want to become a veterinarian but it is painstakingly obvious that they have ZERO idea about the whole process?

Today was the first day of class for Animal Histology and we all had to say something about ourselves. Out of 13 people in the class (not including me), 4 said they were going to Vet School. Naturally I had to ask if they had applied. All 4 were juniors/seniors and had no idea about the application process. No one had any animal experience either.

Although they have no real chance (for the next foreseeable cycles), it just gets under my skin. This is part rant & part curiosity.

What are your thoughts on people who "want to go to Vet School" but will clearly never make it?


Ya, it does a little bit. Because I know I have put a lot of time and effort into preparing and some people really don't understand what it takes. But usually those people go on to do something else. I believe in order to get into vet school you really have to go for it, and want it, otherwise it probably won't happen.
 
I hear you! Granted, I am completely self-educated on the process, I am shocked by how many people have absolutely no idea what they need to do. I've even had some people who are naive enough to think that as a post-bac student, I am trying to "transfer" into a vet school, and when I explain that it is an application process, they look at me with this blank, confused look on their face. 😱
 
well. . . .sort of on the same note:

One of the techs i'm close with "advised" me to not speak about my interviews/acceptances at work. apparently some of the other techs were jealous? and sending out way negative vibes.

I'm just not used to that type of environment. I went to a hella hard undergrad, and although we were super competitive with each other, we were all so happy when one of us succeeded because we know how much hard work is put in.
I was a little put off by the fact that anyone would think negatively about someone else's success. . . .especially after I have worked SOOOOO hard to get to this point.

Vet school admission is VERY hard and takes a LOT of commitment. As I'm sure you all know way too well. And I want to enjoy the fact that all my hard work is finally paying off.
 
Ok, so this "pre-vet" girl started working at the clinic. She had a 4.0 GPA (nothing against that, I'm just a hater and jealous!😉) The vet was doing a neuter on a dog and while the dog was under, he started urinating. The girl proceeded to ask, "What is she doing? Why is that coming out right there?" I liked to died!! Fortunately, she didn't pursue vet med, but WAS accepted into med school! I'd take my chances and wait on a doc, if she was the only one on duty!!:laugh:
 
What frustrates me is the pre-vet students who are all "goo goo ga ga I love animals" but hate the science classes and arn't willing to put the work in or just do the minimum.👎 I know there are some science pre requisites that none of us really love, but I feel like it is unrealistic for people to want to succeed at vet med without them. I guess I might be biased though since I really enjoy science courses.
 
The vet school applications require so much animal and veterinary experience, not to mention recommendations from a veterinarian, that I don't see any way you could be accepted without really being commited to the profession. Sooner or later the "clueless" people will either get a grip or move on.
 
What really irks me about people who don't understand how hard it is to become a vet is the comments. "Can't you just sign up for vet school?", "oh it's 4 years more? I though it would only be 2 years of school", "wow, it's like a medical degree" and my favorite "why aren't they letting you do surgeries, it's not like it's on a person" (said to me by family members).

It feels like they're minimizing the sheer amount of work and sacrifice it takes to get there.
 
The vet school applications require so much animal and veterinary experience, not to mention recommendations from a veterinarian, that I don't see any way you could be accepted without really being commited to the profession. Sooner or later the "clueless" people will either get a grip or move on.

Yeah - that's why it doesn't bother me when people say they want to be a vet but have no idea what it means they have to go through. Part of me wants to explain it all (hopefully opening their eyes for their sake) and the other part of me wants to let them live in their bubble because they might still find other animal-related careers that don't require a DVM so I don't want to discourage them.

(Totally unrelated, BadCats, I love that picture of your dog because my 10 month old puppy loves that position and it just looks so strange to me having had many dogs none of which did that.)
 
My personal favorite: "Wouldn't you rather go to med school and be a real doctor?"

🙄

Note that this isn't ever said maliciously, but rather in a matter-of-fact tone.
 
I get one of two extremes - either people saying 'Oh man, that's harder to get in than med school, isn't it?' (which provokes a more-info-than-needed conversation about applicant pool numbers, etc.) or 'oh, my friend/sister/cousin's in vet school. She goes to *name of technical college that does veterinary technician program*."

As far as pre-vet students go, most of the ones I'm friends with have a good idea of the process, but NONE understand it from the guidance counselors. It's all self-taught, one way or the other (SDN, vets who mentor, etc.) I think pre-vet programs really need to step it up in the guidance department - it seems like not many of them really know what it takes to get in to schools, and don't advise students to do more than take the base prereqs, which leads to a lot of attrition in undergrad.

Also, my undergrad school's in the same system as UW-Madison, and the pre-vet advisor really only knew about Wisconsin's admissions process.

She also tried to convince me it would take 4 years to get the prereqs done...when I had a degree (no gen ed courses needed) and wanted to go back full-time. Just because that's what it took freshman entering the pre-vet program to finish.

...point? Heh...mostly a rant. But if there is a point, it's this: I don't get upset at the students, mostly I get riled about advisors not knowing what to tell the students. In my opinion, pre-vet advising needs a MAJOR rehaul. Then again, this is specific to my school.
 
My personal favorite: "Wouldn't you rather go to med school and be a real doctor?"

🙄

Note that this isn't ever said maliciously, but rather in a matter-of-fact tone.


Hence one of my favorite work-out t-shirts... it says "Real doctors treat more than one species" on the back. 😉
 
I guess you are right that people who don't figure it out don't get in. Lol we don't get too many go to a real medical school since my undergrad is a huge prevet school.

And StayingHopeful,
I wish it were my dog. I just love giant dogs and can't have any due to apartment living. Just 2 very bad cats.
 
I don't mind too much when people are naive about the whole process (I'm not talking freshmen or anything... we were all naive at one point and that is totally ok). For the most part my friends and family support me and know all the freakin hard work we all have to go through. It's the friends of friends who say the annoying things (like vet school = vet tech school and all the ones mentioned before).

The thing that DOES get under my skin is this (which has happened at least twice)...

"You're in vet school? That's awesome. I always wanted to be a vet... but I just love animals too much. I couldn't do it."

What I wish I would have said back to that is "well, I don't love animals enough. that's why I am spending over 100K to devote my entire life to them"

Now I'm just hoping someone says that to me again :meanie:
 
I usually hear "Vet school? Oh, you like animals?"
Uhh no. Why did someone say that about me? In fact i hate them. Eww, they shed and poop, right? *eyebrow*
 
On a related note, it also REALLY irks me when my friends and family members (who share some of the abovementioned misconceptions) say I am a "shoo-in" for vet school because I am "so good with animals." And when I try to explain to them how hard it is to get in, they tell me I'm being modest. Kills me...
 
Ugh, I get all those. The vet tech school = vet school one is probably the thing that gets under my skin the most.

Although, aside from people not knowing how hard it is to get in/get through vet school, the thing I get most is after people find out I'm a zoology major I get "oh, so you want to work in a zoo?"
 
Skillet, you want to work in a zoo? Oh, I could have fun with that one...

But back to the topic, though. Most people that I have run across actually seem to know that vet school is hard to get into, is 4 years long, and is very demanding. When I meet someone who doesn't understand the commitment it takes to get into vet school, I take about 30 seconds and tell them the basic facts just to set the record straight.

Yeah, I have met some pre-vetters who have no clue what they're going to have to do to be a competitive applicant. The ones that bother me the most are the ones who want to play with the animals all day long and haven't taken the time to figure out that there is much more to this job than that. I know some people who think that a 4.0, and nothing else, equals a "get into vet school" card. What I don't understand is this: how can people go through, say 3 or 4 years of school as a pre-vet student, and never expose themsevles to anything related to vetmed? How do they know that they actually want to be a vet and like the job? Isn't that one of the reasons as to why we are required to have so much hands-on experience?
 
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What gets me is "why don't you want to be a real doctor?", which I still get from family.

The first person who can give me the best quippy response to that gets extra credit.

Mostly I say, "because you can't muzzle people" and get blank looks. Muzzle? What?
 
What gets me is "why don't you want to be a real doctor?", which I still get from family.

The first person who can give me the best quippy response to that gets extra credit.

Mostly I say, "because you can't muzzle people" and get blank looks. Muzzle? What?

omg that's brilliant 😛
 
when my friends and family members (who share some of the abovementioned misconceptions) say I am a "shoo-in" for vet school because I am "so good with animals." And when I try to explain to them how hard it is to get in, they tell me I'm being modest. Kills me...

How come med students don't get "Your gonna be a doctor? You must really like people!"

God yeah. If I don't get in i'm going to have to explain to everyone that I obviously don't like animals enough, wasn't smart enough, not driven enough, or ... or ...
 
What gets me is "why don't you want to be a real doctor?", which I still get from family.

The first person who can give me the best quippy response to that gets extra credit.

Do you know how much trouble real doctors get into for sleeping with their patients?! 😉
 
Do you know how much trouble real doctors get into for sleeping with their patients?! 😉

hahaha good one.
personally, ive responded with " i don't want to see anyone naked in person but myself....my SO and my future future kids" AND "real doctors work on more than one species"

many people i talk to actually realize that vets are soo much cooler b/c yes we learn about all species. i get really happy when clients actually know how much schooling vets go through, and have had some people tell me "oh, it's really competitive" it is extremely irritating when some don't know its 4 years!! also it's irritating when clients (i work at a ER) complain about how expensive it is, blah blah. i mean it isn't cheap, but if they only knew how much debt we have, how much less we make than docs, pharmacists, dentists, etc. sometimes i just want to go off on people that argue with me about their bill, it's EXTREMELY annoying and brings up the point of how much people are willing to spend on their pets. what if it was your kid? should you really even have a pet if you can't afford veterinary care for them? sorry its a rant, but 😛
 
Although, aside from people not knowing how hard it is to get in/get through vet school, the thing I get most is after people find out I'm a zoology major I get "oh, so you want to work in a zoo?"

Ugh, same here! No, I don't want to be a zookeeper.
 
My personal favorite is the pre-med that declares, "yeah, vet school is my back-up"...
 
Haha, I know what you mean.

One of my girlfriends roomates said they wanted to be a vet during my freshman year. After I got hired at a local clinic I told her she should look into applying, since I thought she would be a great fit for our little disfuntional family at work, heh.

Come to find out she had realized you can't be a vet right out of undergrad and didn't want to "go to anymore damn school" haha.

I have mixed feeling about people saying they love animals and want to be a clinical vet. I love some animals...and I hate some, but I have a compassion for all the critters big and large. That's another argument though.

I also love the folks that think being a vet means you'll make $200+ grand a year. Every time I tell one of my high school friends what most vets make they all say "that's horrible, why would anyone want to do that"
 
I just hate having to break it to people who are starry-eyed and telling me they plan on going to vet school that a) you still need to go to undergrad and get the pre-reqs completed, and b) there is no such thing as 'marine mammal vet school'. I run into a lot of people who think that the only difference between vet tech school and vet school is two years- they don't realize that undergrad is required for vet school.
 
The funniest time I remember was kind of the opposite, where I had someone assume I didn't know anything about veterinary medicine. We were in Genetics lab, and my lab members polled the group as to what their ultimate career goals were. It was pre-med, pre-dental, pre-pharm... and then I said pre-vet.

My lab partner gave me a condescending smile and practically patted me on the head with a "okay, sure..." I guess he assumed I was one of those "I love just love to snuggle puppies" clueless pre-vets, because five minutes later I started talking about my job as a vet tech, his eyes got huge, he gave me an astonished look, and he practically jumped out of his skin.

"You mean you WORK at a VET and STILL want to DO THAT??!! You know they don't make ANY money RIGHT??!! You KNOW you have to deal with GROSS DIARRHEA RIGHT??!!"

Apparently he worked for a vet briefly and it wasn't quite what he had expected. He just couldn't fathom going into vet med fully informed. :laugh:
 
My personal favorite is the pre-med that declares, "yeah, vet school is my back-up"...
So true..pre-med students probaby wouldn't last two minutes in a vet clinic where their days would consist of endless anal gland expressions, cat scratches, and poop, poop, and more poop...that also makes me REALLY mad when people say that vet school is their back up plan because those people some how get accepted and the people who have been working so hard to become a vet can't seem to get a seat in vet school....just a little bitter don't mind me.
 
This thread is great. I try to just smile and nod along with people that say ignorant things, but it's great to have a place to rant about it and listen to rants!! 🙂

My most irritating one is when people hear that I want to go to vet school, they say, "Oh, I was going to be a vet, but I didn't because <insert totally obvious reason here>". Reasons such as: it's too long to go to school, I didn't want to put any animals to sleep, etc. They always say it sort of condescendingly like they were SOO smart for making the decision not to go to vet school and I just haven't realized all those things yet, but when I do I'll be right there with them.

I also get annoyed at friends/family that say things like that, Luna. "Oh, you'll get into every single school, don't worry" or "Well you're so smart you'll have no problem getting in." I realize they're trying to be nice, but I think it bugs me because it just devalues how hard I've worked to get to this point.

I've heard the vet/vet tech thing quite a few times, too! 🙄

Although I have to say I'm surprised that MOST people do realize how hard vet school is, they're curious to learn more, and I enjoy speaking to them about it.
 
In my opinion, pre-vet advising needs a MAJOR rehaul. Then again, this is specific to my school.

Not really - at the school where I did my pre-reqs, the pre-vet advisor was not very helpful. She advised that applying to out-of-state schools was a waste of time, because it's too hard to get in (yes, it's hard, but obviously people *do* get in!).
 
I was helping tutor some people about the whole Vet School process, and one girl, who is a Junior, told me that she had no veterinary experience yet she is a pre-vet major and wants to go to Vet School. She had some experience with animals (small family farm) but she had never observed or worked with a vet, and she told me that she would not be able to do it because she didn't have a car and had to do some internship over the summer.

Uh...

HOW do you know you want to be a veterinarian if you have never seen them at work???
HOW do you know it is the profession of your dreams if you don't know what they exactly do???
AND I didn't have a car until a year ago and I worked my butt off to travel to certain places and get experience... *rolls eyes*

rant over 😀
 
I am a Master's student in an animal science program and I CONSTANTLY have people asking me if that means I am going to be a vet. My fiancee even asked me if I could just take a test and become a vet without going to school (his reasoning was that you can pass the bar without going to law school). I shouldn't make fun of him because he is not science oriented and doesn't understand the whole process, but I have to remind him and everyone else that becoming a veterinarian is similar to becoming a human doctor. Would you really want your doctor to be someone who just took a test and passed?
 
I KNOW! :O

I hate when people say...

"Oh, veterinarian... that means your a doctor? Isn't it four years?"

(I'm graduating this year from high school) "So you're going for vet training next fall" me: "No, actually, it takes just as long as a human doctor" them "really"

"Why wouldn't you want a field you make a difference or make a lot of $$

"Ohh, I love animals too!"

It TOTALLY frustrates me when people have no idea of the process of doing anything. I can't even stand to hang on the high school forum even on here because they don't put any effort in figuring anythign out and most have no idea what they are talking about. GRRRR!
 
The best comment I've had so far was from my Mother-in-Law..."Well, will you have to do surgeries?"

My husband was in the room when this happened and just gave me this "I am so sorry look." I was almost speechless but somehow managed to reply, “Actually if I get in :xf: I will learn how to do surgeries because I'll be a REAL DOCTOR!” I wanted to add you halfwit but I managed to refrain.

Oh, and since I recently landed a job at my local zoo my brother-in-law asked, "So your the zoo vet now?" Yea, I just breezed through school in my time machine and gained all that specialty training in zoo med!

Good grief 😉
 
[I will learn how to do surgeries because I'll be a REAL DOCTOR!"

I don't think doing surgeries is a pre-requisate for being "a real doctor".

But everyone needs to give the doctor **** a break. Being a doctor doesn't mean anything! Technically, EVERY lawyer is a Doctor (JD = Juris Doctorate), so like it or not, they are every bit a real doctor as MD's/DVM's/O.D's/DMD's/Ph.D's, ect. Doctor is Doctor is Doctor. There are dumb ones, smart ones, real ones, fake ones, good ones, bad ones, rich ones, poor ones.

Should have my Ph.D soon, when people ask me "So, you will be making a lot of money when your done?", I simply say, "Nope, not that kind of doctor". not sure of the relevance of that line in this thread, but it shuts them up pretty fast.
 
My sister told me that she has a friend who's sister is going to vet school in Nevada. My response was, "Hmm, I highly doubt that." I explained, though, and met no arguments. My family is pretty good about understanding. All it takes is a little explaining to set a clueless family member straight, and then it's good.

Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure my parents and sister were completely flabbergasted when I didn't gt in to vet school... I don't think they even considered that a possibility. Haha. Thankfully, I did, so I was only mostly devastated, and not beyond reason. 😉
 
But everyone needs to give the doctor **** a break. Being a doctor doesn't mean anything! Technically, EVERY lawyer is a Doctor (JD = Juris Doctorate), so like it or not, they are every bit a real doctor as MD's/DVM's/O.D's/DMD's/Ph.D's, ect. Doctor is Doctor is Doctor. There are dumb ones, smart ones, real ones, fake ones, good ones, bad ones, rich ones, poor ones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that not every lawyer has to have a JD (additionally, not every law school grants a JD, there are other degrees like the LLB, and then there are degrees like the SJD). Having a JD means that you graduated from a law school awarding a JD, while being an attorney/attorney-at-law/esquire/lawyer means that you are licenced to practice law.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that not every lawyer has to have a JD (additionally, not every law school grants a JD, there are other degrees like the LLB, and then there are degrees like the SJD). Having a JD means that you graduated from a law school awarding a JD, while being an attorney/attorney-at-law/esquire/lawyer means that you are licenced to practice law.

You may very well be right. I'm sure there are exceptions (foreign for instance), and perhaps not all lawyers are JD's. I always thought that a JD was your first law professional degree. I guess only some lawyers are real doctors 🙂
 
Speaking from a family with many lawyers, you are correct in that you do not need to have a JD to practice law. However, most practicing attorneys do go to law school for a JD. On the other hand, once you have your JD, you still need to pass the bar in order to practice legally. Otherwise you just have some fancy letters after your name and nothing to do with them. And no, not everyone who gets a JD passes the bar. So it's a complex issue (at least when it comes to law, but I am sure other fields are similar when there are big tests at the end that basically give you the legal right to practice your profession).
 
so like it or not, they are every bit a real doctor as MD's/DVM's/O.D's/DMD's/Ph.D's, ect. Doctor is Doctor is Doctor. There are dumb ones, smart ones, real ones, fake ones, good ones, bad ones, rich ones, poor ones.

Well-said... i'm sure some of you out there have doctors who treat you who had no idea what they were doing in their pre-med days...

What are your thoughts on people who "want to go to Vet School" but will clearly never make it?

I don't think it's fair to get so down on other pre-vets who may not have it all figured out yet. Some of them won't make it into schools. Some of them will figure out "what it's about" before they get into vet school. And some people will just never figure it out. Veterinary medicine is a career- don't be so possessive/judgemental. It's the adcoms job to judge as pre-vets as "worthy" of training... or not. Just my thoughts...

With regard to the rest- it does get old hearing people's misconceptions about vet-med, but it doesn't make me angry. I'm sure I have plenty of misconceptions about what it is to be a journalist, an astronaut, a fisherman or a lawyer for that matter. I don't take it personally. But I can commiserate... I too get tired of saying "it's 4 years- just like human medicine".
 
well said Barnaby. I think my Freshman year when I decided I wanted to be a vet I didn't have any experience and had only done some preliminary research on what the admissions process was like. I think I originally wanted to go into it solely because I had compassion for animals and liked science...and eventually I gained more perspective and elaborated on those motivations.

And someone above mentioned "snuggling puppies"- pre-vet, vet, or neither who doesn't love snuggling puppies?!:laugh:
 
As for the ignorant hopefuls who have no clue how much you have to pay your dues before you even apply: they'll find out soon enough! 😉

I have to say, when I was at a charity spay/neuter clinic last year, there was another pre-vet gal there who had yet to apply and made a statement along the lines of "I'm sure it's not as hard [to get in] as they say it is..."
My first reaction, of course, was disgust. But my second thought was: here's a girl who may very well walk right into the vet school of her choice, and for her, it will be easy. I think we've all met those people who seem to have everything handed to them--either because they're gifted (i.e. they score an 800 on the GRE quant. in their sleep), or they're superb at BS-ing, or a little of both.
I turn to the consolation that my trials and tribulations build character. 🙄
 
i know this thread has gone a lil off the subject but im pre-vet at a college that has no vet school. im doing my pre-reqs and really have no idea what it really takes. ive toured a few colleges vet programs. i work for a vet clinic in town and volunteer for the SPCA. i didnt even know about this website till a friend who is already in vet school told me about it. sometimes i fill im swimming out here by myself cause nobody knows anything. anyway just wanted to put out there that alot of people just dont know about the requirements for vet school. even counselors
 
You're working at a clinic while in school-that seems like a good start!
 
i know this thread has gone a lil off the subject but im pre-vet at a college that has no vet school. im doing my pre-reqs and really have no idea what it really takes. ive toured a few colleges vet programs. i work for a vet clinic in town and volunteer for the SPCA. i didnt even know about this website till a friend who is already in vet school told me about it. sometimes i fill im swimming out here by myself cause nobody knows anything. anyway just wanted to put out there that alot of people just dont know about the requirements for vet school. even counselors

Do you like puppies?

Nahh, really. If you need any specific help, I think all you need to do is start a thread. 95% of the people here are more then willing to help people out, and we all must admit our ignorance at some point.

As far as the pre-reqs. go. Hell, half the Vet schools can't get there own pre-reqs right, so dont sweat that (ok, sweat it, but dont feel bad about not knowing it).

The fact that you are here, and realize that you need college before you go to vet school puts you ahead of a lot of people. And yeah, this thread is really about venting and sharing amusing anecdotes.
 
I'd have to agree wholeheartedly with Barnaby. We all have to start somewhere, and not everyone knows that they want to be a vet by the time they start high school or college.

When I started volunteering at a small animal clinic for the first time, I had no hands-on experience but I was very knowledgeable about the vet school admissions process and what it takes to get accepted. But since I had no real experience, the vet just assumed I was ignorant and gave me this condescending lecture about how the vet schools will never even think about accepting someone with no experience, which I already knew. The whole staff treated me like an idiot, saying things like "are you sure you want to be a vet...?" every time I asked a stupid question or didn't know how to do something.

So I know it's irritating when you come across someone who is completely ignorant about the road to becoming a vet, but likewise it's irritating to encounter people who are very knowledgeable and experienced who act like they're on a pedestal because they know so much. As others have said, the ignorant ones will eventually either come to their senses or change their career plans. There's no need to judge others or be elitist about your knowledge/expertise in the field.
 
I must say that I agree with much of what cerealrhapsody is saying. Ever since I changed careers I have been educating myself on this process and many of you have been resources for me as well as for many other people (whether they be on this forum or stalking it) 😉

I think that we all share some funny stories and have all heard more or less the same comments from friends, family, and even strangers, but what we need to do is look at it as a chance to educate one another and share information about the field to people who lack that knowledge. I know I'm not the only one on here that personally feels comfortable coming on SDN and asking a question (even if it seems rather rudimentary) with the confidence that I won't be made fun of. I think the best thing we can do is bring that safe environment into our daily lives where we can educate other people around us, whether they be pre-vet or not, about the field and the process. All we have to gain is more respect and a better understanding within the community of what it is we are all so passionate about.

Ok...I had my moment, now back to reading...
 
I think that we all share some funny stories and have all heard more or less the same comments from friends, family, and even strangers, but what we need to do is look at it as a chance to educate one another and share information about the field to people who lack that knowledge. I know I'm not the only one on here that personally feels comfortable coming on SDN and asking a question (even if it seems rather rudimentary) with the confidence that I won't be made fun of. I think the best thing we can do is bring that safe environment into our daily lives where we can educate other people around us, whether they be pre-vet or not, about the field and the process. All we have to gain is more respect and a better understanding within the community of what it is we are all so passionate about.

Agreed! Although, the difference is that when I (and I'm sure a lot of people) come on SDN, there's an expectation that help will be given and received, as opposed to the random drunk guy in a bar and/or the 18th family member to crack the same joke over holidays... 🙄
 
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