Does it really make sense to compete with your classmates? I think not...

[Magnetek Blue]

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I don't really understand being competitive with your classmates... Don't you think it would be more beneficial for 100 people in your class to help each other rather than chop each other down? Even if you successfully dropped everyone in your class's USMLE score somehow, you would barely dent the application pool (16,000-17,000). There are way too many other schools and students for it to matter.

On the other hand, if you all help each other, maybe you increase your USMLE scores a few points. Wouldn't you rather have 100 people (yourself and friends included) at +5 rather than you at 0 and 99 of your classmates at -5?

.Statistically, it just doesn't make any sense to me. The benefit of scoring higher is incomparably better than making other people score lower. Am I missing something?
.

 

[Magnetek Blue]

I guess I forgot about class rank, but I think that the chances you significantly (and positively) affecting your class rank by everyone competing w/ each other are much less than those of significantly increasing your USMLE score while cooperating. Plus I think I'd rather have a high USMLE score than class rank anyway...

 

[DrBowtie]

Not going to comment on the gunner topics, but the applicant pool isn't 17000. It will vary highly based upon what specialty you are going for. Some like Derm/Plastics only have 200 applicants, while medicine has ~10k (only like 3000 US MDs)

 

[UAAWolf]

I don't compete with my classmates. I compete with myself. I love competition and always have, but lets be honest- all of us have "made it" at this point and we're smart. It's not pre med where 80% of us will be cut out...so I in no way feel I have to compete with them. If I mess up, its my fault. 0 to do with them

I would be happy if all of us rocked every test, because we need as many good docs as possible.

 

[Mr hawkings]

Not going to comment on the gunner topics, but the applicant pool isn't 17000. It will vary highly based upon what specialty you are going for. Some like Derm/Plastics only have 200 applicants, while medicine has ~10k (only like 3000 US MDs)

Also depends on where you go to school. If you are in a state with only 1 medical school and most students stay in-state, you really ARE competing with your classmates. Though, in places like this there are usually more than enough spots to go around and they end up having to recruit folks from other countries to fill unfilled spots.

 

[Mace1370]

Actually, the best situation is for your classmates to help everyone (including you) and for you to sabotage your classmates without them knowing it. That way you're +5 and they're all -5.

Not that I endorse that position, of course.

 

[Magnetek Blue]

Actually, the best situation is for your classmates to help everyone (including you) and for you to sabotage your classmates without them knowing it. That way you're +5 and they're all -5.

Not that I endorse that position, of course.

Truth.

 

[RySerr21]

I don't really understand being competitive with your classmates... Don't you think it would be more beneficial for 100 people in your class to help each other rather than chop each other down? Even if you successfully dropped everyone in your class's USMLE score somehow, you would barely dent the application pool (16,000-17,000). There are way too many other schools and students for it to matter.

On the other hand, if you all help each other, maybe you increase your USMLE scores a few points. Wouldn't you rather have 100 people (yourself and friends included) at +5 rather than you at 0 and 99 of your classmates at -5?

.Statistically, it just doesn't make any sense to me. The benefit of scoring higher is incomparably better than making other people score lower. Am I missing something?
.

do you go to a school thats overly competitive? My experience has been the exact opposite.

 

[RedSHIFT]

OP - i kind of wish I could take an MCAT for Cam Newton so he could attend your institution and stuff you in a locker.

 

[2012mdc]

Also depends on where you go to school. If you are in a state with only 1 medical school and most students stay in-state, you really ARE competing with your classmates. Though, in places like this there are usually more than enough spots to go around and they end up having to recruit folks from other countries to fill unfilled spots.

If you are at a big name school with a large class AND you want to do a competitive subspecialty (derm, plastics, rad onc) with relatively few spots then in the average year you are competing with them directly for spots. There are ~300 derm spots, I've seen match lists with 5+ matching derm from one school, that is a small but significant percentage especially in a hyper-competitive specialty.

I go to a school that's smaller and more primary care driven. Due to size and nature of the institution there are rarely more than 1 or 2 people, going for a specific competitive residency. No reason to be competitive.

 

[Magnetek Blue]

do you go to a school thats overly competitive? My experience has been the exact opposite.

Actually, no, not at all. The people in my class don't compete with each other at all. But I heard some people from another school complaining about it and just started wondering.

I guess it does make a little more sense if you are going for something like derm, but even then only with the few people in your class that are actually shooting for it. Either way still an A-hole thing to do in my opinion.

OP - i kind of wish I could take an MCAT for Cam Newton so he could attend your institution and stuff you in a locker.

Sweet attempt at internet trash talking bro. SO COOL.

 

[IDoIt4Love]

I agree with you OP. I think it's a waste of energy, and hypocritical to the caring and compassion we are all supposed to be striving for as physician care-givers. I am also of the same persuasion as UAAWolf--I don't compete with others in general but rather, set my own personal goals and strive to meet them.

I think if we all stayed mindful of our ultimate goal--to become caring, compassionate, competent members of a healthcare team--we would work together to make sure we all become the best doctors we can.

 

[UAAWolf]

OP - i kind of wish I could take an MCAT for Cam Newton so he could attend your institution and stuff you in a locker.

 

[Residual]

I agree with you OP. I think it's a waste of energy, and hypocritical to the caring and compassion we are all supposed to be striving for as physician care-givers. I am also of the same persuasion as UAAWolf--I don't compete with others in general but rather, set my own personal goals and strive to meet them.

I think if we all stayed mindful of our ultimate goal--to become caring, compassionate, competent members of a healthcare team--we would work together to make sure we all become the best doctors we can.

Hmmm...I've often told myself the same thing. It feels better to think of things that way.

Thing is, there are limited resources out there and everything you get for yourself is something not available for someone else. You meeting your goals often (not always) requires someone else to fail.

At the end of the day, you're competing whether you like it or not. I agree that it's better if things don't get nasty, but...

 

[MUBiomed]

The funny thing is the recent blurring of the lines between hard worker and "gunner." It seems like you can't get a break if you seem like an overachiever. I personally would not hurt anyones chances at a good USMLE, but I have still heard gunner whispered in my direction. 😱

 

[2012mdc]

The funny thing is the recent blurring of the lines between hard worker and "gunner." It seems like you can't get a break if you seem like an overachiever. I personally would not hurt anyones chances at a good USMLE, but I have still heard gunner whispered in my direction. 😱

Some people don't understand the true meaning of gunner. I send out notes to the class and was part of a group that did weekly short study guides for Step 1 and still got called a gunner. To some people a gunner is just someone who works hard and is gunning for AOA, top residencies etc, not necessarily a negative

 

[ArcGurren]

Some people don't understand the true meaning of gunner. I send out notes to the class and was part of a group that did weekly short study guides for Step 1 and still got called a gunner. To some people a gunner is just someone who works hard and is gunning for AOA, top residencies etc, not necessarily a negative

Yeah, the term itself is defined exactly as someone who backstabs others in an effort to get ahead, usually by trying to humiliate the other person or suck up to the professor. What you're doing might seem a little... hyper-zealous, but it's not gunner at all. In fact that's very helpful, I wish we had things like that at our school.

The first years at our school decided to take the term and make it a catch-all term for "studying really hard" and talked about "gunning through anatomy". It's ridiculous and stupid.

 

[reedman]

gunner or not, cooperative with classmates or not, it does not matter.

in the end it is you and only you that determines your competitiveness. short of academic dishonesty, i can't fathom how anyone could effect your scores.

 

[Substance]

You're not just competing with your classmates. You're competing with everyone who will be applying and interviewing for the same residency as you will seek. Good luck.

 

[2012mdc]

Yeah, the term itself is defined exactly as someone who backstabs others in an effort to get ahead, usually by trying to humiliate the other person or suck up to the professor. What you're doing might seem a little... hyper-zealous, but it's not gunner at all. In fact that's very helpful, I wish we had things like that at our school.

The first years at our school decided to take the term and make it a catch-all term for "studying really hard" and talked about "gunning through anatomy". It's ridiculous and stupid.

It honestly didn't even take that much work. We had a group of 4 working on it so each person probably put 15-30 minutes into it peer week.

I came in interested in ortho and pretty serious about school and that meant gunner to some people 😎. I guess it's better than the people who assume I don't have to study too hard because I'm "naturally" smart b/c I went to a top undergrad (my med school is low tier)

 

[OpalOnyx]

the whole competitiveness thing is getting old... people can be destructively competitive at times. thats life. best to forgive and ignore them. in the grand scheme of things, your classmates' attitude is miniscule and everybody is usually consumed by their own problems/life anyway.

 

[2012mdc]

gunner or not, cooperative with classmates or not, it does not matter.

in the end it is you and only you that determines your competitiveness. short of academic dishonesty, i can't fathom how anyone could effect your scores.

Ripping pages out of library books, purposely sending out incorrect notes, stuff like that. I've heard stories like this but they've always seemed to be urban legends

 

[gravitywave]

If you are at a big name school with a large class AND you want to do a competitive subspecialty (derm, plastics, rad onc) with relatively few spots then in the average year you are competing with them directly for spots. There are ~300 derm spots, I've seen match lists with 5+ matching derm from one school, that is a small but significant percentage especially in a hyper-competitive specialty.

I go to a school that's smaller and more primary care driven. Due to size and nature of the institution there are rarely more than 1 or 2 people, going for a specific competitive residency. No reason to be competitive.

i still don't understand how this contributes to competitiveness unless the grading system is using a curve. Normative grade point cutoffs should take care of this.

Or am i missing something? It's not like all the derm programs are conclaving, making sure that not too many people from one school get into derm. they take the people they want.

 

[2012mdc]

i still don't understand how this contributes to competitiveness unless the grading system is using a curve. Normative grade point cutoffs should take care of this.

Or am i missing something? It's not like all the derm programs are conclaving, making sure that not too many people from one school get into derm. they take the people they want.

I think there's around 8 derm programs in Cali. Let's just say they on average have 3 spots for a total of 24. If you go to a large school in Cali and ~10 people are interested in derm then those students are competing for the same limited number of spots. In that type of situation it could be in your best interest not to help out fellow classmate