Does psychotherapy really works?

[Sicarius]

I have been researching this issue for quite some time now,but generally I do see points from both schools of thoughts. But essentially the question remained unsolved,how useful and effective is psychotherapy?

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/psychwork.html This article points out a few doubtful points about psychotherapy that I would like to highlight too."

"The use of above-average therapists would tend to inflate outcome research results greatly. To this day no one has proved that average or below average therapists do as well as no treatment at all."

Scientists have failed, in study after study, to demonstrate the superiority of any major therapeutic school, a phenomenon psychologist Lester Luborsky and his colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania compare with the dodo bird’s pronouncement in "Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland": "Everyone has won and all must have prizes."

And essentially,the most troubling part,is psychotherapy something far simpler than anything to do with years of learning techniques and theories?


p.s. Just need to some convincing facts/research studies/outcome regarding the efficacy of psychotherapy..thanks for your time!

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[cara susanna]

I don't really have time to really go into this, but I will say that the Dodo Bird Effect is very controversial and not everybody buys it. The original study had quite a few flaws, for instance.

Also, there are numerous studies out there that indicate different types of therapies are more efficacious for certain types of disorders.

Edit: That website is really... um... interesting.

 

[zenman]

Edit: That website is really... um... interesting.

No kidding, with that religious slant. Red flags, red flags....

"I am convinced psychotherapy and its practitioners will one day be rightfully viewed as soothsayers, fortunetellers, shamans and astrologers. People will wonder how "civilized" individuals were naive enough to give such therapy any credence."

I thought this was funny as I've always run into a lot of mental health professionals in my shamanic experiences and when asked why, they have responded because it works better than talk therapy."

 

[Psychology 76]

"Our concern about psychotherapy is more serious than whether or not it "works." We are concerned about how it conflicts with the Word of God and work of the Holy Spirit in a person’s life. Psychological counseling theories and therapies may help a person function better in the flesh and fulfill the desires of the flesh and of the mind. Paul described that kind of functioning as:..."

that is all you need to read on that website to know it has no scientific merit.


anyway, i think psychotherapy does work well in some cases.
for specific phobias, it's great. for lots of other stuff though, the research does not look very supportive.

 

[IT514]

Sicarius,

Although I dont want to do your homework for you, I'd like to suggest that you break up your question a bit more. Instead of "is psychotherapy useful?" try "is x therapy useful for x age with x problem/diagnosis?" That should make life a bit easier for you.

Lets take autism, for example. If the problem is autism at 4 years old, the answer is basically ABA therapy. My problem with the Bobgans (the authors of the website), is that they confuse behaviorism as a worldview with behavioral therapies that are quite effective for certain problems.

Another problem I have is that their dualistic worldview has no room for science, yet they will use science carelessly to put down what they dont like, in this case psychotherapy.

 

[cara susanna]

That last part is exactly what I was thinking, too. Their entire argument seems to be that you should only rely on God for help through difficult times.

 

[FadedC]

"Christians are attempting to accomplish the work of God through worldly means—to improve the human condition through psychological counseling theories and therapies"

I believe that same argument has been made in the past (and is still being made by some) for almost every scientific advance. Medicine is a key example, with some viewing that trying to cure the sick is the work of god and that trying to accomplish it by worldly means rather then by prayer and faith is wrong.

 

[Rivi]

Yes, psychotherapy works.

 

[DrGero]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1093/clipsy.9.1.30/abstract

As an aside, I don't completely reject out of hand the comparison (at least as a sort of sociological metaphor) that psychotherapists and psychiatrists sort of function as secular, quasi-religious healers in modern Western culture. We are, for better or for worse, secular priests of a kind.

 

[BSWdavid]

"PsychoHeresy Awareness Ministries" I am sorry, but I can't stop laughing. I don't think that particular site is your best bet. How can religion attempt to disprove psychotherapy based on "lack of evidence" when the premise behind religion is completely absurd (based on the scientific model)?

 

[BSWdavid]

This was posted about Carol Rogers:

"Rogers once said, “Neither the Bible nor the prophets—neither Freud nor research—neither the revelations of God nor man—can take precedence over my own direct experience.” Rogers’ approach is known as “self theory.” For a Christian the Word of God is supreme; for Rogers the word of self is supreme. When the self is thus exalted, the biblical doctrines of the faith will surely be violated. Rogers eventually became involved in spiritism, consulted the Ouija board, and even became involved in necromancy.

Through his therapy methods and encounter groups, Rogers fueled a nationwide surge of reprehensible narcissism and irresponsible individualism, undermined marriage and morality, and seduced many away from the faith. None of the above information is secret, but is well known among those Christian practitioners who follow Rogers in their counseling practices."

 

[zenman]

"PsychoHeresy Awareness Ministries" I am sorry, but I can't stop laughing. I don't think that particular site is your best bet. How can religion attempt to disprove psychotherapy based on "lack of evidence" when the premise behind religion is completely absurd (based on the scientific model)?

That is pretty funny....

 

[AcronymAllergy]

"Our concern about psychotherapy is more serious than whether or not it "works." We are concerned about how it conflicts with the Word of God and work of the Holy Spirit in a person's life. Psychological counseling theories and therapies may help a person function better in the flesh and fulfill the desires of the flesh and of the mind. Paul described that kind of functioning as:..."

that is all you need to read on that website to know it has no scientific merit.


anyway, i think psychotherapy does work well in some cases.
for specific phobias, it's great. for lots of other stuff though, the research does not look very supportive.

While there are some currently-gaping diagnostic holes in terms of pscyhotherapy efficacy (most of the personality disorders and GAD come to mind), I don't know that I'd go so far as to say those areas amount to "lots of other stuff." Then again, it's all relative, I suppose.

However, for an encouragingly-large chunk of the mental health "pie" (e.g., depression, phobias, pain disorders, panic, PTSD), psychotherapy does indeed work.

Edit: Also, to address one of the points in the original post--I can't recall the specifics off-hand, but I'm nearly certain that research has been conducted looking at the efficacy of CBT as practiced by both recently-trained and more-seasoned therapists, with equivalent results for both groups. This of course assumes that the recently-trained groups did indeed receive adequate training, mind you.

 

[DrGero]

I think the problem with many psychotherapy efficacy studies is that they focus on efficacy for treating "disorders" in the DSM-defined sense of the word. The DSM is pretty horrible, at least where I'm standing, in terms of delineating the boundaries of what is psychological distress, of defining psychopathology (Kutchins and Kirk, anyone? How about some interrater reliability studies, validity studies for you?). Once you actually get away from inordinately focusing on RCTs of treating disorders in the narrow DSM sense and start looking at things like first-factor psychological distress, problem complexity (which psychologists are very good an measuring) and also looking at what psychologists actually *do* in the treatment room (are they directive? nondirective? are their treatments simple or complex? are they asking patients to do thought records or are they doing social skills training? etc.), then you start seeing a lot more fine-grained and interesting results in the clinical lab. Psychotherapy works, and the Dodo bird is probably dead.

Again:

http://www.larrybeutler.com/systematic-treatment-selection/

http://www.larrybeutler.com/dr-beutler/media/

 

[Ollie123]

I think real psychotherapy works.

I think a lot of what goes on in community-settings (at least in my area of specialization) is what we researchers would typically consider to be placebo treatments. I'm seeing this all over the place at a well-respected VA med center, so I can't even fathom what is going on in many other settings.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I think real psychotherapy works.

I think a lot of what goes on in community-settings (at least in my area of specialization) is what we researchers would typically consider to be placebo treatments. I'm seeing this all over the place at a well-respected VA med center, so I can't even fathom what is going on in many other settings.

Do you mean solely supportive therapy, or something else? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to discuss it publicly. I'm really curious.

 

[Ollie123]

PM sent

 

[Shatani]

Do you mean solely supportive therapy, or something else? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to discuss it publicly. I'm really curious.

im curious too! can i have a PM?