does ranking really matter

[caligirl]

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when it comes down to residency...
how much will my chances of matching to the program of my choice depend on the fact that I attended an Ivy league school (Yale SOM) over a school that is ranked in the mid 30's (us news and world report)
Please, offer advice.

 

[WingZero]

As mentioned in similar threads, school ranking comes into play for competitive residencies in general, top residency positions in any field, or if you are interested in pursuing an academic career. However, the degree to which your school name helps you is debatable, although I'm of the belief that every little advantage helps, considering getting into residency is even more competitive than getting into medical school. That said, any hardworking medical student will be able to get into a residency regardless of what school s(he) came from.

If I were in your shoes with a choice between Yale and another lesser known school, I'd choose Yale in a heartbeat unless finances were an overwhelming concern (assuming the other school you are talking about is a state school). Yale is likely to have more and better resources/faculty/training - secondary factors like location and "feel" really should take a backseat to those priorities. I would even say that money should be a secondary issue, given the opportunity to study at a school like Yale. Medical school debt is a concern, but for most docs I've talked to, it's not a big burden once you're out of residency.

Bottom line - you're much likely to regret it if you choose Yale

 

[zb]

My opinion is that there is a kind of clumping effect in rankings. The top 3 is a clump of its own. Then the 12-15 after that is another clump. There is a small but real difference in the way these two clumps are perceived by residency directors.

BUT there's not much difference "interclump" -- i.e., residency directors don't care a whole lot between a 7 and a 11 -- e.g., no one has strong opinions about coming from Yale vs UCLA so if that were your decision I'd say, "just go whichever -- it doesn't matter too much."

After the top 15 or so, there's another clump of 20 or so. Here there is a larger (but still small) difference in the way these two groups are perceived. There IS a difference in the way you are perceived by residency directors coming from a Yale versus coming from the lower clump. Medicine is still sort of a prestige-obsessed profession.

Little differences do matter and if you've got the chance, go to the higher clump school -- i.e., Yale -- don't give yourself a small disadvantage if you have the choice not to.



[This message has been edited by zb (edited April 05, 2001).]

 

[kimberlicox]

Depends. As others have noted, this issue is of more importance with competitive residencies and academic medicine. Then again, I, an IMG, got into an academic general surgery program so I guess anything is possible!

The major factors determining residency placement are your USMLE scores (some more competitive places and residencies will also request MCAT scores), your grades, letter of recommendation (what they say and who they are from), clerkship evals and any away audition rotations. Going to an Ivy might bump ya up to a more prestigious residency but it won't do a thing without the above factors also being in line with their current residents.

And I wholeheartedly agree with the idea about "clumps". Frankly once you get out of say the Top 5 or so, the difference between a school ranked by US News and World Report (which, BTW, has highly skewed rankings. All the PDs know that and look at those rankings somewhat suspiciously.) at number 15 and one ranked number 35 is probably not that big of a deal. They're both still good schools. Numbher 15 and number 150 - well there's a difference.

If you are planning on returning to California you might check at some programs you are interested in and see whether they prefer California medical school grads as well. Some programs are highly inbred and prefer their own graduates to "outsiders".

Again, the difference between Yale and a numer 30 school is only likely to make a difference in really competitive programs and specialties.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pilot]

Yale tied for 37th in the US News rankings..

 

[beljr]

Do residency programs ever request grades from courses taken outside of medical school (grad/undergrad)? I was also wondering if a high ranking in primary care benefits graduates who decide to pursue a different specialty (surgery)? I am interested in orthopedic surgery, but the medical school that I will be attending is considered prestigious in primary care/rural medicine. Thanks in advance for the insight!

 

[WingZero]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Pilot:
Yale tied for 37th in the US News rankings..

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Actually, Yale is ranked 8th in terms of research university, 37th for primary care. I would think that someone concerned with rankings would focus on the research rankings since Yale is a specialty/research oriented school.

 

[kimberlicox]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by beljr:
Do residency programs ever request grades from courses taken outside of medical school (grad/undergrad)? I was also wondering if a high ranking in primary care benefits graduates who decide to pursue a different specialty (surgery)? I am interested in orthopedic surgery, but the medical school that I will be attending is considered prestigious in primary care/rural medicine. Thanks in advance for the insight!•

A couple of the plastics programs I applied to wanted undergrad transcripts and MCAT scores, so I suppose its possible that some Ortho programs might do the same.

 

[John Galt]

It is true that a few programs require old information like MCATs, and even SATs/ACTs. UNC is one of the ortho programs that requires stuff like this.

 

[Pegasus]

UNC is ranked 6th in Primary Care and 27th in Research!!

 

[OmoOduduwa]

What about schools like Meharry, Morehouse, Howard, etc, that don't show up on the USWNR lists (their stats are always listed as "N/A")?

How in the world can a person find out about the relative "ranking" of these schools vis-a-vis residency placement and the like?

 

[SocialistMD]

I know of several individuals who went to schools that do not show up on the US News rankings and got top residencies. If you go to "podunk SOM" and I go to Harvard, but you kick my ass in USMLE scores, have a 4.0, awesome references and are published, you will get the residency. That is how it is. If we had exactly equal stats, I would probably get it. That is the only time the name of the school comes into play.