Does step 3 matter?

[LSMU]

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Hello guys!
I am new to this forum. I am worried that my poor step 3 score (177 -passed during interview season and had no time for preparation)can threaten my chances of getting cards. First two steps were Ok - 247 and 251, respectively. Is it possible to remediate this shortcoming with other things: research, good letters. etc?
Appreciate your opinion, especially those who are fellows already

 

[dragonfly99]

First 2 steps were more than OK.
Step 3 was bad.
Some cards fellowships don't even look at your board scores (don't even want them sent).
Some do look at them.
With your 1/2 score you could have been selling your high USMLE scores...now I would just not worry about it but stay away from mentioning them, and don't send your scores to any program that doesn't ask for USMLE scores.

USMLE scores aren't the most important part of cards fellowship selection...some places put some importance on them, some places don't use them at all. You can't do anything about this now, so just go with what you have.

 

[LSMU]

First 2 steps were more than OK.
Step 3 was bad.
Some cards fellowships don't even look at your board scores (don't even want them sent).
Some do look at them.
With your 1/2 score you could have been selling your high USMLE scores...now I would just not worry about it but stay away from mentioning them, and don't send your scores to any program that doesn't ask for USMLE scores.

USMLE scores aren't the most important part of cards fellowship selection...some places put some importance on them, some places don't use them at all. You can't do anything about this now, so just go with what you have.

Thank you dragonfly!
What would you advise to do with those programs that require USMLE transcript- stay away from them and save money not applying there?
What is the relative importance of MLE exams compared to other factors:good IM program (university-based), publications, LORs, in-training exam score- can they beat bad step 3 result?

 

[Myostatin]

USMLE scores are looked at, but primarily steps 1 and 2, and they are significantly less important than the other factors you'd mentioned (with the exception of inservice exam scores, which nobody should really have access to). I wouldn't let your step 3 deter you from applying to programs that you're intereted in, as I doubt it will have a big influence. Besides, your step 1 and 2 scores are good and illustrate the point that you can take tests well if needed...

 

[perilou]

It seems like, from my reading other posts, that research is pretty important. Is most of this research done during residency? What percentage of applicants have publications? What is the average # of publications?

I'm not asking for exact numbers... more like ballpark 🙂

(edit) Also, how competitive are card fellowship positions? Judging from the AAMC's careers in medicine page, there are more spots than US applicants, but from these forums it seems much more competitive. (edit)

 

[LSMU]

USMLE scores are looked at, but primarily steps 1 and 2, and they are significantly less important than the other factors you'd mentioned (with the exception of inservice exam scores, which nobody should really have access to). I wouldn't let your step 3 deter you from applying to programs that you're intereted in, as I doubt it will have a big influence. Besides, your step 1 and 2 scores are good and illustrate the point that you can take tests well if needed...

Thank you Myostatin! Now I feel relieved 🙂

 

[dragonfly99]

I don't know that Step 3 is seen as less important than 1 and 2, but certainly with the high 1 and 2 scores, the Step 3 looks a bit more like a blip on the screen.

I don't think you should ditch applying to places that require USMLE scores, but a little strategy (i.e. applying to a good number of places that DON'T require them at all...there are quite a few) can't hurt.

Where you did residency, who writes your LOR's and whether you have research are definitely more important than step scores.

In regards to the other ? above, about competition level for cards...70-something percent of US grads get a spot on their first try, so if you are a US allopathic grad who just wants a spot SOMEWHERE then your odds are good. If you want a competitive, academic place, and/or you are a FMG/IMG/DO,then all bets are off.

 

[perilou]

I don't know that Step 3 is seen as less important than 1 and 2, but certainly with the high 1 and 2 scores, the Step 3 looks a bit more like a blip on the screen.

I don't think you should ditch applying to places that require USMLE scores, but a little strategy (i.e. applying to a good number of places that DON'T require them at all...there are quite a few) can't hurt.

Where you did residency, who writes your LOR's and whether you have research are definitely more important than step scores.

In regards to the other ? above, about competition level for cards...70-something percent of US grads get a spot on their first try, so if you are a US allopathic grad who just wants a spot SOMEWHERE then your odds are good. If you want a competitive, academic place, and/or you are a FMG/IMG/DO,then all bets are off.

Thanks. 👍

 

[LSMU]

Where you did residency, who writes your LOR's and whether you have research are definitely more important than step scores.
.

Thanks!

 

[lemonade02]

I have a question..is step 3 actually a requirement for any programs? LIke if you didn't take it, will you not be looked at by any places?

 

[muscles]

Step 3 is required as part of the progression to earning your license. While it's not a "requirement" perse, there is no way not to take it - it is assumed that step 3 will be completed prior to starting a fellowship.

However, there are many residents who begin the fellowship application process prior to taking their step 3.

 

[dragonfly99]

Yeah, that's true...a lot of applicants wouldn't even have their Step 3 score yet. So if you aren't in a hurry to moonlight and are only going to be PGY2 when you apply, then delaying taking Step 3, at least until the winter/spring of 2nd year, might be something for some of you to consider if you have a good Step 1/2 score. I don't know of any cards programs that require Step 3 to be taken so they can look at it before they rank you...some places just require that you submit a USMLE transcript.

In the case of the OP, I'd just NOT send the USMLE transcript to places that don't specifically request it, and for the ones that do, just send it and if you get an interview don't bring up the USMLE. If the interviewer does, just say, "Oh yeah, I just screwed up that test...had a bad day".

 

[ethat001]

No one cares about Step 3. I don't think anyone asked for Step III scores. For example, I took my step 3 after my apps were done.

But wow -- how'd you manage to almost fail it? We know you're smart -- your first two scores were excellent. I remember I studied for 2-3 days for Step 3 and it wasn't that bad.. I guess there is peds & OB stuff you need to read over. Hahahaha. Ahh... senioritis. 😉

 

[dragonfly99]

Yeah, I'm kind of weirded out that someone who got 250 on Step 1/2 could get that low on Step 3. My guess is he/she might have screwed up the clinical cases, and/or totally bombed the peds/surgery/ob/gyn stuff.

Now looking at what I wrote, I'm not even sure he/she should avoid applying to programs that require the USMLE's. The Step 1/2 scores are so high that they might trump the screwup on Step 3. I think perhaps he should just proceed as he would normally, perhaps with adding a few extra/additional programs that don't require the step scores. Obviously this person is smart and capable of taking tests well when necessary...the only thing that might be worried about in this situation is ability to apply knowledge clinically, but if the LOR's are good then I doubt it's going to hurt a lot.

USMLE scores aren't as important in fellowship selection as for residency selection, probably b/c @this point they are supposed to have more stuff to judge you by, rather than just your test scores and some grades. In theory, at least!