Does the admissions process seem less daunting for non-trads?

[drdan83]

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I remember when I teased the idea of applying to medical school when I was 18 and I was as stressed out as some of those pre-allo members are. I used to think doctors were gods and that getting into med school was almost like getting elected President of the US.

As a non-trad, I am wiser, I've seen more, I've experienced more, and while the process of applying and getting accepted is just as hard as when I was 18, I have accepted that those who want medicine bad enough, eventually get it one way or another.

I recently learned that a few acquaintances from when I was younger have become doctors. Two graduated from SGU and one went overseas for their degree. In the end, they all became doctors. These are three people who I thought would never make it to med school.

Do you guys feel the same way? Do you feel that it is not as impossible as you once might have thought it was?

I just want to add that the stress I went through when I was 18 regarding medical school and my career plans was definitely not healthy. Having known what I know now, I wish I didn't stress as hard back then.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Ask me in Feb... 😉 I just submitted today!

 

[curt656]

Ask me in Feb... 😉 I just submitted today!

Congrats SBB!! May the Med School Gods smile upon you!!


As far as the original question is concerned, I am mortified, lol! I am 2 cycles away from applying and I have a long, uphill battle before me.

 

[MadMedic704]

Unfortunately no. I was much more carefree as an undergrad. I would have just filled out the app in one night and hit submit. Now I'm anal and neurotic about everything. I must have printed my app to PDF about 30 times and went back in to tweak small things over and over. I like my old attitude better but I suppose attention to detail is more conducive to success in medicine.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I already climbed that hill, I started this process in the Spring of 09 by calling my state med school and asking them how I fix my situation (crappy job, always wanted to go, low GPA) and they told me, so I did it, and now I'm here.. it was long, it took a lot of work, full time work, and min 3/4 time school make me a something something... Anyway, best of luck to you guys, you'll get there!!! And good luck to those submitting with me!!

 

[mauberley]

Do you guys feel the same way? Do you feel that it is not as impossible as you once might have thought it was?

I think what I have over my 18-year-old self is perspective. Also, perhaps better critical thinking skills. But in terms of what I could achieve, I don't feel like my perception of that has changed over the years. The only difference is that I now feel more ownership over the direction of my life, whereas at 18, I kind of just went wherever the wind took me.

 

[PharMed2016]

I remember when I teased the idea of applying to medical school when I was 18 and I was as stressed out as some of those pre-allo members are. I used to think doctors were gods and that getting into med school was almost like getting elected President of the US.

As a non-trad, I am wiser, I've seen more, I've experienced more, and while the process of applying and getting accepted is just as hard as when I was 18, I have accepted that those who want medicine bad enough, eventually get it one way or another.

I recently learned that a few acquaintances from when I was younger have become doctors. Two graduated from SGU and one went overseas for their degree. In the end, they all became doctors. These are three people who I thought would never make it to med school.

Do you guys feel the same way? Do you feel that it is not as impossible as you once might have thought it was?

I just want to add that the stress I went through when I was 18 regarding medical school and my career plans was definitely not healthy. Having known what I know now, I wish I didn't stress as hard back then.

You must've been uber smart if you were applying to medical school when you were 18, lol.

I'm actually super stressed right now and anal retentive about the application process. It doesn't help that I'm also anal retentive about working and classes... 🙁

Doesn't give me much free time at all for this application process. Now, I just have to finish my personal statement within the coming week to submit.

 

[Margra]

I think it's a little of both. The pre-allo forum (at least those who post) is full of over-stressers (I entered my EC has 15 hours per week when it was only 14, are the FBI coming to my door?!). When I filled out the AMCAS, I did not feel the need to ask about every tiny detail.

Once submitted, I waited patiently and prepared diligently for interviews. Once interviewed, I waited to hear decisions. I think I just have the attitude that whatever happens will happen, and there is little I can do to change it besides keeping a positive attitude and working hard. In undergrad, the period between a test and a result was excruciating. Now I have learned that we only have control over some things, and worrying about those things outside of our control is a waste of energy. 🙂

 

[medfit]

I've got to say there was definitely a little bit of nervousness on the interviews I went on but nothing compared to the younger applicant. As an older applicant (31) this is a second career for me. I've thought about this extensively and weighed all my options. I know who I am and where I want to go. I am confident in the resume I have built and the experiences I have had that have made me what I think is a good applicant. Ive interviewed for multimillion dollar companies with panel interview by regional directors etc....much more daunting than any of the interviews I went on. I think as long as you know why you want to be a physician and what has brought you here...and you know a little about what is going on in the health care industry (if you get thrown those questions) then you will be fine. I honestly think most of the interviewers enjoyed having somewhat adult conversation (and that's mostly what my interviews were...were conversations).

 

[mnoon1]

I loved playing the calm and collected 25yrold-mother-of-two at interview day. I was just as nervous as the 21 yr olds but it was much more fun pretending I wasn't than squirming along with them.

 

[FiremedicMike]

<shrug> I'm not really that intimidated by the admissions process at all. I've worked in public safety so long that I'm used to the "break you down" mentality. My FD interview composed of a panel of 9 command staff, all trying to get me to break. One spent 20 minutes essentially calling me liar and telling me that I would probably falsify documents in the future.

I can play the game, I welcome it. Getting the interview is the hard part, after that is gravy.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Mike that sounds like my personality type... I used to have a boss that would call me a stupid bitch to my face in meetings, well... Thanks for that because now I don't let it bother me, and I can think on my feet... That's part of what I think they're looking for, how do you do under pressure... However, Mike, some of the interviews are very low stress, don't make them high stress for the interviewer 😉

 

[Torr]

Mike that sounds like my personality type... I used to have a boss that would call me a stupid bitch to my face in meetings, well... Thanks for that because now I don't let it bother me, and I can think on my feet... That's part of what I think they're looking for, how do you do under pressure... However, Mike, some of the interviews are very low stress, don't make them high stress for the interviewer 😉

Wth, SBB. That sucks. Really wanna hear the backstory but don't wanna derail the thread. Good to see you're only stronger because of it!

Plus now you'll know what to do if one of the adcom members calls you that in the middle of the interview 👍.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Well, I sent you a PM, but basically she was horrible and was demoted (eventually) for falsifying records to try to fire me. She's not even the WORST boss I've had... I had two others that were pretty spectacularly bad... I even called the Dept of Health and testified that he used fear tactics to try to get his employees to submit to what he wanted them to do, legal or not... Yep... some real doozies in my work history... But, I think it makes it unlikely for me to be flustered by some Jackass while I'm a student or resident... cause I've been there done that...

 

[Torr]

Well, I sent you a PM, but basically she was horrible and was demoted (eventually) for falsifying records to try to fire me. She's not even the WORST boss I've had... I had two others that were pretty spectacularly bad... I even called the Dept of Health and testified that he used fear tactics to try to get his employees to submit to what he wanted them to do, legal or not... Yep... some real doozies in my work history... But, I think it makes it unlikely for me to be flustered by some Jackass while I'm a student or resident... cause I've been there done that...

Doozies indeed. You've had some horrible bosses! As bad as it all sounded though I agree that it's great training for the a**holes you'll encounter later in your career. Still sorry you had to deal with it though.

Yay for non-trads and all the ****ty past jobs we've had. Something to think back to when studying for boards 😎.

 

[mauberley]

Yay for non-trads and all the ****ty past jobs we've had. Something to think back to when studying for boards 😎.

As in "man...I really wish I were back in that ****ty job right now"?

 

[Torr]

As in "man...I really wish I were back in that ****ty job right now"?

Lol. No, Maubs! 😛

At least I hope not

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Haha, the one jerk was closed down 😉 I had to put on AMCAS that the business is defunct/bankrupt 😉 OH DARN

Maub, ummm I don't even wish I was in my current job!!

 

[QofQuimica]

Getting things back on track here....

I actually think that the app process is *more* daunting for nontrads, for several reasons.

First, you likely have a lot more to lose than you would if you were a trad. In many cases, you're giving up a respectable job (maybe even a well-paying one) to go down a risky path with no guarantee of success. If you're doing all of this with a family in tow and other major responsibilities (mortgage, etc.), that makes it even more daunting.

Second, you are more likely to be going it alone. There are many places along the way where people fall down: doing poorly in their post bac, low MCAT scores, lack of clinical experience, poor app strategies, etc. Many of these problems can be avoided with proper mentoring. If you were a trad, you'd probably be in a premed club, and you'd have a premed advisor. Now granted, many if not most premed advisors stink. However, there is a lot to be said for having a beaten track that you can follow and people around who can help guide you.

Third, simply being older and having more life experience doesn't inherently make you a better candidate. My experience is that many people, both trads and nontrads, are not as good at selling themselves as they think they are. If you're over-confident in your ability to interview, you may actually wind up shooting yourself in the foot by coming across as arrogant.

Finally, once they do make it in, nontrads are more likely to have conflicting responsibilities that may not be well-accommodated by their school. For example, you may have expenses like loan payments that cannot be covered by your financial aid, or you may want to live in a more expensive area so that your kids can attend a better school.

I'm not trying to discourage any of you, because I sincerely hope that you all achieve your dream. But I also don't think it helps anyone to whitewash the process as being "easier" for nontrads, when in my experience, the exact opposite is true for the reasons I've given.

 

[NYRN]

Q I think you bring up a lot of excellent points, but on the other hand I do see myself agreeing with a lot of what the OP has said. There are some people who are late bloomers, and I know I am one of them.

Nontrads with families have it much harder than those without spouses/children, no question about that. If I had children I don't know if I would be on this journey out of fear that they would suffer for it. That being said, there are people that do make it, and I give them so much credit.

I know I could never have done this when I was 21 years old due to lack of confidence, motivation, and the false belief that doctors are gods and the idea that there would be no way I could ever become one of them. I'm fortunate that I have years of real clinical experience behind me so I'm very familiar with what medicine entails, but even if I didn't, I still think that I would make a much better doctor in my 30's than I ever would have in my 20's.

The whole process is still daunting, but I'm hoping that between my academic record and my experience, that schools will see me as a valuable asset and a good fit in an incoming class.

 

[mauberley]

I guess I'm not a traditional non-trad, then. 🙂 I continued to work at my full-time job through my prerequisites and through the application season and always had that as a fall-back option, thankfully enough.

Agreed that simply being older doesn't mean you'll automatically pwn interviews... in my job I've certainly seen candidates for jobs at my company that aren't so stellar in interview skills. I also agree about the lack of a support network as compared to traditional applicants still in school -- well, at least those at large institutions... my undergrad certainly had no support, but then again, my school isn't necessarily in the business of turning out med students.

 

[n3xa]

<shrug> I'm not really that intimidated by the admissions process at all. I've worked in public safety so long that I'm used to the "break you down" mentality. My FD interview composed of a panel of 9 command staff, all trying to get me to break. One spent 20 minutes essentially calling me liar and telling me that I would probably falsify documents in the future.

I can play the game, I welcome it.

Same here. Graduate school did a fantastic job of keeping me on my toes and expecting people in every step of this process to be critical and sometimes downright mean. I remember as an undergrad feeling very unsure of myself and afraid of being wrong in front of my peers. Now I just learn from it and move on.

That doesn't mean I am not doing mock interviews and constantly asking people for feedback throughout this application cycle. I'm here to play the game and I want to improve to the best of my ability. Come at me bro.

If things don't work out, then it's time for Plan B.

 

[PostHaste]

I'm not trying to discourage any of you, because I sincerely hope that you all achieve your dream. But I also don't think it helps anyone to whitewash the process as being "easier" for nontrads, when in my experience, the exact opposite is true for the reasons I've given.

I don't think it's easier by any means. I can't count how many times I've rolled my eyes at a 20-year-old undergrad complaining that they don't have tiiiime for whatever. But for me, it's far, far less daunting now than at the end of undergrad.

I know anecdotes =/= evidence, but I've been able to keep my job through pre-reqs and MCAT (3.9 & 34) and plan to keep it until matriculation, I have more support now than any other time in my life (both personal and academic), and I've gotten the chance to be on the other side of interviews and see the difference between confidence and arrogance and to learn from it. I have foresight and selflessness I didn't have at 22. I know how to prioritize things in my life. I understand that there will be stressors and I have ways of identifying them and dealing with them. I know about the conflicting priorities and I'm doing my best to go in with my eyes wide open to them. I know what a mortgage and a massive monthly payment and childbirth and moving and budgeting and holding a job and making a will and buying life insurance and dealing with ER visits at 2am that will be billed to me (not my parents) feels like. I have no fears about when to get married or when to have kids or when to buy a house. Today at 30 it seems far less daunting than at 22, when 10 years was half my life and $200,000 was more money than I could reasonably imagine. I haven't seen it all, I can't possibly plan for it all, but at least now I understand that and know what to do with it.

 

[vc7777]

Getting things back on track here....

I actually think that the app process is *more* daunting for nontrads, for several reasons.

First, you likely have a lot more to lose than you would if you were a trad. In many cases, you're giving up a respectable job (maybe even a well-paying one) to go down a risky path with no guarantee of success. If you're doing all of this with a family in tow and other major responsibilities (mortgage, etc.), that makes it even more daunting.

+1 The stakes are higher for many nontrads. I was standing in the unemployment line just outside Detroit the week before my MCAT, being treated like a felon (turns out the State of Michigan really DID think I was a criminal after all. They demanded all of my unemployment monies back a year later. I had to drive back to Detroit and defend myself in unemployment court, but that's another story) .

The reality check was unnerving. Although it brought great clarity to my situation, so say the least.

Nontrads can have a lot to lose.

Second, you are more likely to be going it alone. There are many places along the way where people fall down: doing poorly in their post bac, low MCAT scores, lack of clinical experience, poor app strategies, etc. Many of these problems can be avoided with proper mentoring. If you were a trad, you'd probably be in a premed club, and you'd have a premed advisor. Now granted, many if not most premed advisors stink. However, there is a lot to be said for having a beaten track that you can follow and people around who can help guide you.

+1 again. The system, for better or worse, is geared to a more "standard" applicant. There is no book out there to guide us along and there are few mechanisms in place to support us. I know I would have been sunk without the sage advice of many on this website. Particularly in this forum. 👍

Third, simply being older and having more life experience doesn't inherently make you a better candidate. My experience is that many people, both trads and nontrads, are not as good at selling themselves as they think they are. If you're over-confident in your ability to interview, you may actually wind up shooting yourself in the foot by coming across as arrogant.

True. I was a rocket scientist before (see my badge to the left). Just kidding, an engineer. So English is like a second language for me.
No, but seriously interviewing can be very daunting, and age is not a guarantee of maturity or skills.

Finally, once they do make it in, nontrads are more likely to have conflicting responsibilities that may not be well-accommodated by their school. For example, you may have expenses like loan payments that cannot be covered by your financial aid, or you may want to live in a more expensive area so that your kids can attend a better school.

I'm not trying to discourage any of you, because I sincerely hope that you all achieve your dream. But I also don't think it helps anyone to whitewash the process as being "easier" for nontrads, when in my experience, the exact opposite is true for the reasons I've given.

Wow...it's like you are talking about me......um yeah take it from me - finances weighs heavy on the nontrad student's mind. Constantly. Your creditors don't give a flying fig about your underdog story against-all-odds of switching careers and being called to a life in medicine. They hear "I left a career that allowed me to pay your minimum monthly payments voluntarily to assume federal loans and unemployment and underemployment for the next decade, isn't that AWESOME?!" 🙄

In short, this process was difficult for me, but I threw myself into the process and gave it all I've got. I didn't bank on my age giving me an advantage at any school interview, and I think I did pretty well. No regrets.

Having said that, I wish you all the best of luck!