Does the general public respect physicians?

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pancakesyrup

pancakesyrup

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I know that historically, physicians have been highly regarded in our society, and I have always thought that they are among the most respected professions.

But then on SDN there are people who say that the general public resents doctors and blames them for our healthcare problems, and people like Law2Doc who claim that most Americans consider doctors to be overpaid.

So which is it?
 
Doctors, according to most people, are greedy, overpaid and spend too much time golfing and not enough time helping patients. Oh, and the public thinks nurses/PAs/etc. can do their jobs too.
 
they only respect doctors when they need doctors, which is like less than 1% of the time. rest of the time they rant against docs as overpaid rich people that make money off other people's misery and aren't genuine about treating them. so i guess the answer is no. oh and pre-meds all respect docs, until they get rejected and go into law or dentistry or anything non-being a doctor and starting hating on docs and med students.
 
Dubaifan490 said:
I know that historically, physicians have been highly regarded in our society, and I have always thought that they are among the most respected professions.

But then on SDN there are people who say that the general public resents doctors and blames them for our healthcare problems, and people like Law2Doc who claim that most Americans consider doctors to be overpaid.

So which is it?
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Yes the general public actually respects us almost more than any other profession. Don't confuse a very vocal minority with the actual views of the majority. Similarly, just because many individuals think doctors are overpaid doesn't mean they don't respect doctors, they simply think that their services are being overcompensated for.

I want to go ahead and point out that the vast majority of opinions on this are purely conjecture as it is difficult to ascertain what the general public thinks about doctors and certainly not when we have some skin in the matter (hardly objective). I believe this was a topic that I brought up long ago though and I remember the evidence showing that the public does indeed respect us.

Here's a few threads from way back when I was thinking about this as well, all though they're specifically about trust regarding healthcare. However, I think it gives a window into whether the public sees us as reliable and not greedy monsters just looking out for ourselves.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=638109
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=643401
The first is where the goods are. Second doesn't have much but I did find a good doctor lawyer joke :laugh:
 
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Narmerguy said:
Yes the general public actually respects us almost more than any other profession. Don't confuse a very vocal minority with the actual views of the majority. Similarly, just because many individuals think doctors are overpaid doesn't mean they don't respect doctors, they simply think that their services are being overcompensated for.
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Well put.
 
Anectodally, I've heard that the public's "respect" for Doctors varies greatly with geography. On average, doctors are still well-respected in the southern US, TX, AZ and mid-west. But in the pacific northwest and the northeast, there is much more skepticism of physicians and patients are more entitled.

FWIW, this stems from a conversation I had with a former Tulane resident, whose program was dismanteld during Katrina after his intern year. He ended up doing the remaining 4 years of his training in programs all over the US.
 
pez319 said:
You know how much major airline 747 pilots make? $130k/yr. UPS/Fedex pilots make $200k/yr. Who's overpaid? The person that sits in a cockpit and flies on autopilot for the majority of their work or the person that spent 6-10yrs learning how to help sick and dying patients.
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Those pilots aren't paid for their ability to flip the autopilot switch. They are paid for keeping you and your goodies off the ground and in the appropriate number of pieces in the event of an emergency.
 
pez319 said:
You know how much major airline 747 pilots make? $130k/yr. UPS/Fedex pilots make $200k/yr. Who's overpaid? The person that sits in a cockpit and flies on autopilot for the majority of their work or the person that spent 6-10yrs learning how to help sick and dying patients.
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And when that pilot starts out, he's making 14-20k a year... for a very long time. And is about 80-100k in debt. Usually the younger pilots get little sleep too, as they have to fly around the catch the flight they are flying on... and hence are we of the major reasons regional aircraft crash. Really the profession is alot like going through medical school and then residency, except with the extra 4-years of schooling after undergrad and alot less job security.
article and article

Please don't bash pilots just to make it looks like doctors aren't paid enough. It's a very hard field to get into now, with little pay and little job security for the youngin's. Even United has laid off like 1000 pilots recently - well not laid off, but more, they will be hired back once and only once United decides they want more pilots. There are 40-year old pilots starting back at nothing and working with regional airlines. You only get the big bucks as your seniority level increases and you are flying long-distance around the globe.
(i have bias though - alot of my family is pilots)
 
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Somewhat unfortunate is how doctors are such easy targets for lawsuits. All these advertisements you see for law firms...apparently you can get an easy couple of million of dollars of just one or a group of doctors for various reasons. I mean, I don't even think you can get that much of money out of a serial killer who kills half of your family.

I am pretty sure it's not really that black and white, but it sure does seem like doctors are either the most respected for their work or how much money they happen to have.
 
MeowMeowCAT said:
Somewhat unfortunate is how doctors are such easy targets for lawsuits. All these advertisements you see for law firms...apparently you can get an easy couple of million of dollars of just one or a group of doctors for various reasons. I mean, I don't even think you can get that much of money out of a serial killer who kills half of your family.

I am pretty sure it's not really that black and white, but it sure does seem like doctors are either the most respected for their work or how much money they happen to have.
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Very true. I am getting my lasik done in a few months...and if Dr. boothe slips up.....I'll be slipping to the bank....
 
pez319 said:
You know how much major airline 747 pilots make? $130k/yr. UPS/Fedex pilots make $200k/yr. Who's overpaid? The person that sits in a cockpit and flies on autopilot for the majority of their work or the person that spent 6-10yrs learning how to help sick and dying patients.
Click to expand...

Pilots and physicians aren't all that different. Pilots very much experience delayed gratification in their careers because they have to accrue significant flight time before they can even hope to land commercial jobs. Usually that's in the military, which I think most people would agree would not be a desirable "stop" on the path to an ultimate career objective. They also are forced to stop flying commercially at a certain age; thus, their earning potential is inherently limited.

Whether you think their job is important or not is really irrelevant. I don't even disagree with your point - I would also agree that physicians provide a more meaningful service to society - but physicians and pilots aren't all that different.
 
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I think some of physician resentment comes from the fact that people simply do not understand the intense schooling involved with becoming a doctor. They think doctors make the big bucks with minimal schooling. After just two years of undergrad, I cannot tell you how many people think I am going to be a doctor very soon. And don't even try explaining terms like residency and fellowships to them...
 
AllDay24 said:
I think some of physician resentment comes from the fact that people simply do not understand the intense schooling involved with becoming a doctor. They think doctors make the big bucks with minimal schooling. After just two years of undergrad, I cannot tell you how many people think I am going to be a doctor very soon. And don't even try explaining terms like residency and fellowships to them...
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I agree, I shadowed a ortho hand surgeon and everytime he describe a trigger finger or carpel tunnel release, which when he describes seems very simple, and the patient says likewise, he in a jokingly kinda of matter says "Yeah, but I had to through grade 30 to learn how to do it."
 
Yeah, most of the US has a high level of respect for docs. Maybe it's because I'm in the midwest, but around here I'd say 80-90% of the patients that roll through the hospitals and private practices I've worked in are respectful and thankful towards the docs.They don't treat them like they're Gods, and really you'd have to be a tool to think that way
 
AllDay24 said:
I think some of physician resentment comes from the fact that people simply do not understand the intense schooling involved with becoming a doctor. They think doctors make the big bucks with minimal schooling. After just two years of undergrad, I cannot tell you how many people think I am going to be a doctor very soon. And don't even try explaining terms like residency and fellowships to them...
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I agree that that public not understanding the intensity and length of the training leads to resentment. When a physician and another person are 35, it's easy to resent the physician that likely has a large salary at that point. But rewind back to when both were 25 and I highly doubt that many people would be willing to subject themselves to medical training.
 
People resent physicians who don't look at the patient when they're speaking to them. The ones who do surgeries on Thursday and Friday and don't show up Saturday or Sunday to check on their patients. The ones who think they know too much and don't listen to what the patient has to say. From what I see all patients/family members want is a physician who listens and makes a diagnosis based on what the patient is telling them + what the imaging, blood tests, etc tell them.. The doctor's I work with and shadow treat their patients as an individual person with individual needs and problems.

I think that the money situation is a pancake. One side of the pancake has 2 people age 22. One is working to pay for school and apply to medical school and not spending much money on what they like. One is not working hard spending their money on booze, partying, expensive clothes, cars, etc.

When the pancake flips - one is a physician working hard and making serious money. One is working hard thinking seriously about where to find work for that money.

Also... If you don't want people to know you have money, don't act or show that you have money.
 
MeowMeowCAT said:
What if you are a pilot and a physician?
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Then you fly for fun after seeing your patients 😛

Honestly - unless you have been a pilot for a good 15+ years, you don't want to be a pilot.

NickNaylor - Not a whole bunch of starter commercial pilots actually come from the military nowadays. Most just took out a ton of loans and/or where flight instructors for a while.

I personally don't think the public likes anyone that makes money... really, the public kinda of seems anti-education at times nowadays.

edit: PBS video that I would recommend about pilots: Flying Cheap
 
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BoxAtDaRedLight said:
People resent physicians who don't look at the patient when they're speaking to them. The ones who do surgeries on Thursday and Friday and don't show up Saturday or Sunday to check on their patients. The ones who think they know too much and don't listen to what the patient has to say. From what I see all patients/family members want is a physician who listens and makes a diagnosis based on what the patient is telling them + what the imaging, blood tests, etc tell them.. The doctor's I work with and shadow treat their patients as an individual person with individual needs and problems.

I think that the money situation is a pancake. One side of the pancake has 2 people age 22. One is working to pay for school and apply to medical school and not spending much money on what they like. One is not working hard spending their money on booze, partying, expensive clothes, cars, etc.

When the pancake flips - one is a physician working hard and making serious money. One is working hard thinking seriously about where to find work for that money.

Also... If you don't want people to know you have money, don't act or show that you have money.
Click to expand...


I completely agree with the bold-text. I am under regular treatment, meaning on a monthly basis, and have been regularly seeing doctors since I was ~3 years old, and I have seen a lot of bad doctors and a lot of good doctors. The quality has nothing to do with what school or even residency they went through, but how I was treated. There are some doctors that I have lost respect for, and there are others who I can safely say I will always remember for the kindness and understanding they've shown me.
 
BoxAtDaRedLight said:
People resent physicians who don't look at the patient when they're speaking to them. The ones who do surgeries on Thursday and Friday and don't show up Saturday or Sunday to check on their patients. The ones who think they know too much and don't listen to what the patient has to say. From what I see all patients/family members want is a physician who listens and makes a diagnosis based on what the patient is telling them + what the imaging, blood tests, etc tell them.. The doctor's I work with and shadow treat their patients as an individual person with individual needs and problems.

I think that the money situation is a pancake. One side of the pancake has 2 people age 22. One is working to pay for school and apply to medical school and not spending much money on what they like. One is not working hard spending their money on booze, partying, expensive clothes, cars, etc.

When the pancake flips - one is a physician working hard and making serious money. One is working hard thinking seriously about where to find work for that money.

Also... If you don't want people to know you have money, don't act or show that you have money.
Click to expand...

That's a very good way of saying what I was trying to.
 
It's the WebMD phenomenon--every genius who can download Epocrates onto his iPhone now thinks that he/she is a physician. People go to doctors looking for specific diagnoses or medications. The public's increased "level of knowledge" translates to a diminished reputation for physicians.. since the public thinks they can do just as well by looking stuff up on the internet.
 
Soulstice said:
It's the WebMD phenomenon--every genius who can download Epocrates onto his iPhone now thinks that he/she is a physician. People go to doctors looking for specific diagnoses or medications. The public's increased "level of knowledge" translates to a diminished reputation for physicians.. since the public thinks they can do just as well by looking stuff up on the internet.
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This.
 
Soulstice said:
It's the WebMD phenomenon--every genius who can download Epocrates onto his iPhone now thinks that he/she is a physician. People go to doctors looking for specific diagnoses or medications. The public's increased "level of knowledge" translates to a diminished reputation for physicians.. since the public thinks they can do just as well by looking stuff up on the internet.
Click to expand...

Trust me, that's not the Web MD phenomenon 😎
 
Last time I tried using WebMD for a headache, my chances of survival were decreased by at least half. I proceeded with taking a pain reliever as per usual, and apparently I am now cured of numerous conditions and or diseases.😕
 
People respect physicians for the most part, there is a vocal minority who think we're greedy, don't care about patients and that NPs could do our job. Just like the majority of physicians are solid, caring providers, and a very small yet very visible minority are indeed greedy, care little about patients, etc.

Sure many people think we're overpaid. They also think that lawyers, accountants, dentists, car salesmen, union assembly line workers, etc. are overpaid. If they make more money then you, they're overpaid.
 
Another source of patient frustration/resentment is that a lot of people don't really understand what being a doctor involves. A lot of people expect fast, clear-cut answers, which you only get rarely in the medical profession.
 
I think most people do. The two big criticisms I see are people who think physicians are overpaid and then people who are into natural/homeopathic medicine. I don't think this is in the majority though.
 
eli20 said:
I think most people do. The two big criticisms I see are people who think physicians are overpaid and then people who are into natural/homeopathic medicine. I don't think this is in the majority though.
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Given the attitude that doctors have shown towards what has been shunted into "alternative medicine"--this sort of resentment is not entirely unwarranted..
 
Its more like people are confusing HMOs=Doctor's salary
If an HMO decides not to pay for something, the blame typically gets put on the doctor kinda like what happened with John Q
 
Avoidthetiger said:
Then you fly for fun after seeing your patients 😛

Honestly - unless you have been a pilot for a good 15+ years, you don't want to be a pilot.

NickNaylor - Not a whole bunch of starter commercial pilots actually come from the military nowadays. Most just took out a ton of loans and/or where flight instructors for a while.

I personally don't think the public likes anyone that makes money... really, the public kinda of seems anti-education at times nowadays.

edit: PBS video that I would recommend about pilots: Flying Cheap
Click to expand...

You fly? I have 35 hours in a katana da 20. I just wish someone told me to have all the money saved up front so that you can actually keep up with the 150+ an hour lessons!!!! Such a fun hobby.

And doctors and pilots are sort of a good comparison. Not many people know the training that goes into being a doc...and not many people know that civilian pilots spend years dicking around as a CFI for next to no pay before anyone will even consider them
 
Soulstice said:
It's the WebMD phenomenon--every genius who can download Epocrates onto his iPhone now thinks that he/she is a physician. People go to doctors looking for specific diagnoses or medications. The public's increased "level of knowledge" translates to a diminished reputation for physicians.. since the public thinks they can do just as well by looking stuff up on the internet.
Click to expand...

Nailed it.
 
Soulstice said:
It's the WebMD phenomenon--every genius who can download Epocrates onto his iPhone now thinks that he/she is a physician. People go to doctors looking for specific diagnoses or medications. The public's increased "level of knowledge" translates to a diminished reputation for physicians.. since the public thinks they can do just as well by looking stuff up on the internet.
Click to expand...
Mhmm...or maybe people are starting to realize physicians don't know everything or that there are a lot of bad doctors out there and it's in your best interest to advocate for yourself.
 
Just wanted to chime in on the unpopular opinion (deleted) that pilots are undertrained and over paid.

Military pilot here. I browse here from time to time because my wife has cancer with a bad prognosis and I've considered realigning myself towards health care. Anyways..Hope you don't mind if I chime in to your snotty short sighted comment before it perpetuates.

I had always wanted to be a doctor growing up before I spent the time researching and ultimately talking myself out of what I consider to be a respectable and honorable profession. I did not abandon medicine because of the educational requirements that I see so often illustrated on these forums. I chose another profession with what I would consider to require an equitable amount of training and responsibility. More on that...

I spent 4 years at university studying aviation. I spent the last two years teaching others to fly in a single engine Cessna and continued so for the 2 years following college. These experience was instrumental in the application for a flight slot in the military that accepted 10 percent of applicants. I then spent two years retraining to military standards in naval flight school and another 4 at my first unit before being able to "sign" for the aircraft and be the aircraft commander. Mind you, this is 4-8 years before meeting the basic requirements for employment for a major airline that starts first year first officers at 60k/year, since folks here seem to have salary tunnel vision. Yes the high end can be towards 200-300k after around 20-30 years of furloughs, deployments, and 2-3 graduate degrees.

Like I said, before you jump into a topic you know nothing about, I will refrain from doing the same and continue to respect doctors and their training and subsequent responsibility.

I invite you to give professional aviation a shot. I'd look forward to flying with you, in 15 years.
 
mds047 said:
Just wanted to chime in on the unpopular opinion (deleted) that pilots are undertrained and over paid.

Military pilot here. I browse here from time to time because my wife has cancer with a bad prognosis and I've considered realigning myself towards health care. Anyways..Hope you don't mind if I chime in to your snotty short sighted comment before it perpetuates.

I had always wanted to be a doctor growing up before I spent the time researching and ultimately talking myself out of what I consider to be a respectable and honorable profession. I did not abandon medicine because of the educational requirements that I see so often illustrated on these forums. I chose another profession with what I would consider to require an equitable amount of training and responsibility. More on that...

I spent 4 years at university studying aviation. I spent the last two years teaching others to fly in a single engine Cessna and continued so for the 2 years following college. These experience was instrumental in the application for a flight slot in the military that accepted 10 percent of applicants. I then spent two years retraining to military standards in naval flight school and another 4 at my first unit before being able to "sign" for the aircraft and be the aircraft commander. Mind you, this is 4-8 years before meeting the basic requirements for employment for a major airline that starts first year first officers at 60k/year, since folks here seem to have salary tunnel vision. Yes the high end can be towards 200-300k after around 20-30 years of furloughs, deployments, and 2-3 graduate degrees.

Like I said, before you jump into a topic you know nothing about, I will refrain from doing the same and continue to respect doctors and their training and subsequent responsibility.

I invite you to give professional aviation a shot. I'd look forward to flying with you, in 15 years.
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This thread is 6 years old. No one who you're targeting your message toward is active on these forums anymore. Your efforts would be better directed to threads that are still relevant.
 
I work at multiple hospitals in underserved areas (many patients below the poverty line). Doctors are treated like all knowing geniuses and the patient's never question anything they say.
 
blackroses said:
This thread is 6 years old. No one who you're targeting your message toward is active on these forums anymore. Your efforts would be better directed to threads that are still relevant.
Click to expand...

I invite you to find another thread on such a specific topic; I created an account specifically to address the aforementioned comment and apologize for reviving a thread in order to do so.

I'd recommend the mods delete threads over 6 months old if they feel their relevance will never again surface.
 
mds047 said:
I invite you to find another thread on such a specific topic; I created an account specifically to address the aforementioned comment and apologize for reviving a thread in order to do so.

I'd recommend the mods delete threads over 6 months old if they feel their relevance will never again surface.
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You revived a thread that's been dead for 6 years to hop on a soap box. Seems a little petty.
 
If you're doing medicine looking for prestige or income, you'll get it but probably not enough to your liking. Like all things, some patients are incredibly thankful and will do anything you suggest, others will think you're only in it for your wallet. In the end, who cares? You should be doing medicine because of all the careers out there you could be doing, you've sat down and counted the cost and decided that this is how you want to spend your days. Public perception doesn't make me get out of bed early in the morning, it doesn't make me do research or read when I'm tired. It's because I love what I do despite how incredibly painful it is most days.
 
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