Does transferring disqualify you from AOA?

[OnlyLiveOnce]

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Current MS-1 here. It seems likely that I will have to attempt to transfer (one year from now) to the med school back home due to a health-related issue in my family. Family obviously comes before any resume-booster, so the answer to this question won't actually impact my decision; I just want to know for peace of mind (i.e. whether I should still have aspirations for it, or just forget about it):

Does transferring between med schools disqualify you from AOA eligibility?

I've heard at some schools it just disqualifies you from 3rd year AOA, but I also read a post by someone who said she was disqualified, period.

(Another reason this question isn't critical is because there's no guarantee that I'll be in the upper 25% of the class by the end of 3rd year. You just gotta try your best and see what happens. But still, I'd just like to know.)

 

[basupran]

I know that caribbean students that transfer into LCME schools are eligible for AOA. I know of a couple that made it in 4th yr but not 3rd yr.

 

[OnlyLiveOnce]

I know that caribbean students that transfer into LCME schools are eligible for AOA. I know of a couple that made it in 4th yr but not 3rd yr.

You know people who started off in the Caribbean, and then not only managed to transfer into a US school but even went on to get 4th year AOA? Talk about climbing the ladder...

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Probably varies depending on the criteria of the school you're transfering to. For example here only step 1 and third year clerkships are counted for AOA, and a transfer student shouldn't have any problem getting those done.

 

[basupran]

You know people who started off in the Caribbean, and then not only managed to transfer into a US school but even went on to get 4th year AOA? Talk about climbing the ladder...

Yeah, seriously impressive stuff-I know three of them: one matched into rad-onc, the other neurosurgery and the other ortho.

It is a harder to transfer from a carib school than it is to get in straight from undergrad (>1000 carib grads a year, ~10 transfer seats a year)...a good % of the transfer students hit 99 on step 1 + near perfect grades in the carib....many then go on to honor most of 3rd yr and get into AOA.

 

[OnlyLiveOnce]

bump

 

[Preme]

At my school you would be excluded because 1st and 2nd year grades are factored in.

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

I transferred from one US Allo to another for similar reasons. I was able to get 4th year AOA but not 3rd (though my grades were all Honors, 250+ step 1, #1 in my previous class). Every school is different, but based on my experience 4th year AOA is much more likely, but even then I had to fight for it, because they DID factor in pre-clinical grades. I basically had to appeal to the AOA selection committee to get special consideration, as my grades were technically under a different grading system (H/P/F vs Outstanding/P/F ).

Transferring in general is a nightmare, and I wouldn't recommend anyone do it unless the only alternative is to not finish medical school.

PM me if you have questions.

 

[OnlyLiveOnce]

I transferred from one US Allo to another for similar reasons. I was able to get 4th year AOA but not 3rd (though my grades were all Honors, 250+ step 1, #1 in my previous class). Every school is different, but based on my experience 4th year AOA is much more likely, but even then I had to fight for it, because they DID factor in pre-clinical grades. I basically had to appeal to the AOA selection committee to get special consideration, as my grades were technically under a different grading system (H/P/F vs Outstanding/P/F ).

Transferring in general is a nightmare, and I wouldn't recommend anyone do it unless the only alternative is to not finish medical school.

I'm sorry to hear that. My grades are by no means all honors and I'm barely in the upper half of my class, not even upper quartile. So I don't think I have as much to lose by transferring as you did. It's just that at my current school, despite my "non-outstanding" performance, I still have a very good shot at 4th year AOA because not only are there more grades to be given out in the 2nd year, but also the 3rd year is worth far more in weight. And so although I'm not at the top right now, I technically have the potential to do get there. But I don't know if I'd have the same opportunity at the school back in my home city.

Not that it really matters, given the circumstances. Oh well.

 

[Mr hawkings]

I transferred from one US Allo to another for similar reasons. I was able to get 4th year AOA but not 3rd (though my grades were all Honors, 250+ step 1, #1 in my previous class). Every school is different, but based on my experience 4th year AOA is much more likely, but even then I had to fight for it, because they DID factor in pre-clinical grades. I basically had to appeal to the AOA selection committee to get special consideration, as my grades were technically under a different grading system (H/P/F vs Outstanding/P/F ).

Transferring in general is a nightmare, and I wouldn't recommend anyone do it unless the only alternative is to not finish medical school.

PM me if you have questions.

Does AOA really matter if you have a 250+ step 1 score?
Why bother? How many more doors is AOA really going to open for you at that point?

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

Does AOA really matter if you have a 250+ step 1 score?
Why bother? How many more doors is AOA really going to open for you at that point?

This is going to sound extraordinarily petty, but the answer is: a lot.

If you're going into a competitive specialty (Ortho, Rads, Derm, Ophtho, Plastics), it can mean the difference between getting an interview at the top-tier programs or not. For example, Michigan is notorious for screening on AOA status, so its extremely difficult to get a Rads interview there without it.

The problem with Step I is, 250+ scores are a dime a dozen for the competitive specialties. At one program I interviewed (top tier east coast program), the PD actually went around the room and announced everyone's Step I and II scores, just so we all knew we weren't hot ****. It definitely knocked us all down a peg (FYI, my Step I was the lowest out of the 12 applicants in the room at 259, and we were all AOA).

A high Step I but no AOA is going to make people wonder why you didn't get it? Again, this only matters when you're comparing applicants for the most competitive programs, but it does matter.

 

[OnlyLiveOnce]

This is going to sound extraordinarily petty, but the answer is: a lot.

If you're going into a competitive specialty (Ortho, Rads, Derm, Ophtho, Plastics), it can mean the difference between getting an interview at the top-tier programs or not. For example, Michigan is notorious for screening on AOA status, so its extremely difficult to get a Rads interview there without it.

The problem with Step I is, 250+ scores are a dime a dozen for the competitive specialties. At one program I interviewed (top tier east coast program), the PD actually went around the room and announced everyone's Step I and II scores, just so we all knew we weren't hot ****. It definitely knocked us all down a peg (FYI, my Step I was the lowest out of the 12 applicants in the room at 259, and we were all AOA).

A high Step I but no AOA is going to make people wonder why you didn't get it? Again, this only matters when you're comparing applicants for the most competitive programs, but it does matter.

Talk about depressing. But this only applies to the top tier programs WITHIN those competitive specialties, right? Not the whole specialty itself?

 

[Mr hawkings]

This is going to sound extraordinarily petty, but the answer is: a lot.



The problem with Step I is, 250+ scores are a dime a dozen for the competitive specialties. At one program I interviewed (top tier east coast program), the PD actually went around the room and announced everyone's Step I and II scores, just so we all knew we weren't hot ****. It definitely knocked us all down a peg (FYI, my Step I was the lowest out of the 12 applicants in the room at 259, and we were all AOA).

.

They can do that legally?

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

OnlyLiveOnce: For radiology, yes, that advice more applies to the top programs. You will otherwise match somewhere without it, just maybe not on e of the big dog programs. For Plastics, Derm, Rad Onc, there are so few spots to go around you really better have AOA.

Mr Hawkings: I'm certainly not an expert, but I don't think there's too many things they can do with your application that would be "illegal", aside from maybe trying to beat you with it. You'll find out when you hit the interview trail that the vast majority of interviews are just normal interviews like you expect, but some of them will be downright weird like that.

I remember being told by the dean of my medical school that they weren't supposed to ask you about 1) marriage, 2) kids, 3) where else you applied. At one interview in Chicago, those were the first three questions out of the PD's mouth, no joke. You just have to roll with the punches and decide for yourself if you want to make an issue about it.

 

[SoCuteMD]

OnlyLiveOnce: For radiology, yes, that advice more applies to the top programs. You will otherwise match somewhere without it, just maybe not on e of the big dog programs. For Plastics, Derm, Rad Onc, there are so few spots to go around you really better have AOA.

Mr Hawkings: I'm certainly not an expert, but I don't think there's too many things they can do with your application that would be "illegal", aside from maybe trying to beat you with it. You'll find out when you hit the interview trail that the vast majority of interviews are just normal interviews like you expect, but some of them will be downright weird like that.

I remember being told by the dean of my medical school that they weren't supposed to ask you about 1) marriage, 2) kids, 3) where else you applied. At one interview in Chicago, those were the first three questions out of the PD's mouth, no joke. You just have to roll with the punches and decide for yourself if you want to make an issue about it.

Actually, it probably is a violation of the the educational privacy laws to announce your scores to a roomful of interviewees. But what you say is correct - you roll with the punches on the interview trail, no matter how egregious they seem.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

The problem with Step I is, 250+ scores are a dime a dozen for the competitive specialties. At one program I interviewed (top tier east coast program), the PD actually went around the room and announced everyone's Step I and II scores, just so we all knew we weren't hot ****. It definitely knocked us all down a peg (FYI, my Step I was the lowest out of the 12 applicants in the room at 259, and we were all AOA).

A high Step I but no AOA is going to make people wonder why you didn't get it? Again, this only matters when you're comparing applicants for the most competitive programs, but it does matter.

There are only 30 or so us seniors who applied to rads with >260 step I scores, so I wouldn't call it a dime a dozen. More like less than 3 dozen a year. They are the same 30 people who will be interviewing at a lot of the top places so it's not like every program call fill its ranks with >260's even if it wanted to.

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

There are only 30 or so us seniors who applied to rads with >260 step I scores, so I wouldn't call it a dime a dozen. More like less than 3 dozen a year. They are the same 30 people who will be interviewing at a lot of the top places so it's not like every program call fill its ranks with >260's even if it wanted to.

Re-read above: 250+ = dime a dozen. There were 6 kids in my class with 250+ step I scores applying to Radiology.

Where'd you get the 30 number? I didn't think they released that yet?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Re-read above: 250+ = dime a dozen. There were 6 kids in my class with 250+ step I scores applying to Radiology.

Where'd you get the 30 number? I didn't think they released that yet?

Why the good old latest charting outcomes in the match (2007) of course, I doubt the number has changed significantly from that time.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2007.pdf
page 119

Oh yeah well 250 is a dime a dozen.