Does "who you know" really matter?

[shwayne]

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At what point does knowing someone make a difference in the success of your application?

For example, during your undergrad., does having publications/a LOR from a research faculty at a dental school or having worked for someone who is a clinical mentor in a program or on an admissions committee benefit you?

Thoughts?

 

[jiataoy]

With adequate stats knowing someone with a lot of clout would probably guarantee an interview. Beyond that I believe it's a toss-up.

 

[redhotchiligochu]

I am curious about this too. I have an LOR from a famous alumni from a West Coast dental school, but if it outweighs my stats, I highly doubt it. I suppose having a father/mother/uncle who donated millions to a program might help, but other than that, I doubt it.

 

[MahiMahi]

I suggest not choosing your research mentor based on the letter of recommendation you want to receive from them.

 

[Dasaniii]

I was curious about this as well. I'm getting one of my letters from a prosthodontist who taught as an assistant professor at Columbia University for 10 years, and he used to be one of the admission committees. I'm not sure if it'll make a huge difference, but I doubt if it will.

 

[distressstudent]

Do you think whoever wrote your letter of recommendation is actually that famous?

Your letter could be from a nobel prize recipient, but if person reviewing your application has no idea who that is then it's moot.

Besides, a letter of recommendation is suppose to a testimony to your personality/character. You will have better luck hoping that your letter reader personally knows your letter writer and make him go "oh yeah I know Tim. He seems like a good judge of character" than just "oh yeah Tim is famous. neat"

 

[xerxes106]

You're talking LORs/publications. Definitely hold at least some weight I'm sure. Also factor in there's nowhere to put your publications on AADSAS.....
Now if your friend/employer is some endowed chair legend at the university and can make a phone call to the school and make things happen, then they definitely matter. And those people exist.
I've known one MD who makes a career off the "its not the grades you make its the hands you shake" motto to a ridiculous extent.

 

[redhotchiligochu]

Do you think whoever wrote your letter of recommendation is actually that famous?

Your letter could be from a nobel prize recipient, but if person reviewing your application has no idea who that is then it's moot.

Besides, a letter of recommendation is suppose to a testimony to your personality/character. You will have better luck hoping that your letter reader personally knows your letter writer and make him go "oh yeah I know Tim. He seems like a good judge of character" than just "oh yeah Tim is famous. neat"

I know you're trying to vent your cynicism to a predent but I already know relevance > fame

I've known this particular dentist on a personal level. He just happens to be big among celebrity circles, UoP and UCLA.

 

[JLT223]

No.

 

[Trigeminal08]

Kobe Bryant wrote my letter

 

[shwayne]

Great thoughts guys, thanks.

I think it's important to think strategically about your selection of LOR writers; choosing individuals who can positively comment on your abilities and therefore appeal to a more diverse group of reviewers.

 

[super frank]

Kobe Bryant wrote my letter

Lol, this got me.

 

[DrLTD]

Kobe Bryant wrote my letter

Impossible. Kobe doesn't "pass" compliments to anyone! 😉

 

[setdoc7]

It may matter getting in. It won't help you get out. If you don't belong you will find out the hard way.

 

[roy williams II]

I think what may help support your letter is if it is written by alumni from the school you are applying to. Obviously it would help more if they were well liked by faculty and staff and did well in school. If they made it through, they know what it takes; so, if they are saying they believe you will do well it probably means more than that coming from a dentist who never went to that school. Just my opinion.


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[FunkyzeitMitBruno]

Seems obvious that it would have an impact......letters are of recommendation. Therefore a letter from someone with a high reputation, credentials and respected by the reader would deliver a stronger recommendation to the reader, right?

 

[sweetpeeas]

I think with decent stats, and well-thought out personal statement, you paint a positive picture in the reviewer's mind, and a supportive LOR will only reinforce that image (doesn't really matter who writes it).

The only time I think a LOR will carry you through to gain an interview & acceptance is if the writer has A LOT of influence &/or money. Like a previous dean. Otherwise, I wouldn't be relying on riding on anyone's coat tails. I had an alumni write my letter, but didn't get an interview to their alma mater.

 

[RamsFan1991]

One of my acquaintances shadowed extensively at the school she applied to, only applied to that school with a DAT score of straight 20's, and had no problems getting in. Pretty fishy if you ask me, applying to only one school? She had to have known she was 100% getting in, way too risky otherwise.

 

[shwayne]

Here's my scenario-my current PI is an alumni of Harvard's HST MD/PhD program. They currently hold a place as an associate professor in surgery at HMS, teach in the combined DMD/PhD and MD/PhD programs at HSDM/HMS, respectively, and operate a successful lab at a top-10 US hospital (craniofacial morphogenesis).

They want me to apply to HSDM and pursue a DMD/PhD, however I am unsure if it's even worth it considering my stats. (18 AA/18 TS/21 PAT/20 RC/19 QR and 3.65 cGPA/3.63 BCP). I have a very strong background in research and tons of ECs/shadowing. I'm thinking about retaking the DAT and postponing my app. until next cycle to make myself more competitive. I feel the DAT is the largest hurdle I must overcome to becoming successful.

Anyway, with those stats. and considering my PI's position(s), will their LOR make an impact in my candidacy for an interview specifically at HSDM..?

 

[Rand627]

Who you know always matters. But it doesn't mean someone who doesn't know anyone can't succeed.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Answer to thread title: more than you'd ever like to know

 

[Expithian14]

If you know the right people, it does matter

 

[tlnjd117]

One of my acquaintances shadowed extensively at the school she applied to, only applied to that school with a DAT score of straight 20's, and had no problems getting in. Pretty fishy if you ask me, applying to only one school? She had to have known she was 100% getting in, way too risky otherwise.

I don't think everyone would do this if they knew they were getting in, I would still apply to others. I know several people who confidently applied to one school for college because that's the ONLY school they would want to go to regardless ..
People can still work hard and network to make connections, it's not necessarily the people finding an easy way out ..

 

[shwayne]

Is your GPA competitive for HSDM?


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I'd say I'm on the lower end.. their averages are extremely high: ~3.85 s/cGPA..

 

[schmoob]

Here's my scenario-my current PI is an alumni of Harvard's HST MD/PhD program. They currently hold a place as an associate professor in surgery at HMS, teach in the combined DMD/PhD and MD/PhD programs at HSDM/HMS, respectively, and operate a successful lab at a top-10 US hospital (craniofacial morphogenesis).

They want me to apply to HSDM and pursue a DMD/PhD, however I am unsure if it's even worth it considering my stats. (18 AA/18 TS/21 PAT/20 RC/19 QR and 3.65 cGPA/3.63 BCP). I have a very strong background in research and tons of ECs/shadowing. I'm thinking about retaking the DAT and postponing my app. until next cycle to make myself more competitive. I feel the DAT is the largest hurdle I must overcome to becoming successful.

Anyway, with those stats. and considering my PI's position(s), will their LOR make an impact in my candidacy for an interview specifically at HSDM..?

Ill try to keep the "brutally" in check, but my honest opinion is that with your stats, you will likely land some interviews if you apply broadly. But I really doubt that you would be competitive for HSDM, especially for the joint program. That's not to say you won't get in anywhere, but it's important to manage expectations.
I always try to put myself in others shoes: if I was sitting on the ADCOM and your application came across it would raise my eyebrows. Why? Because you have a relatively competitive GPA, but not for HSDM, and your DAT is not competitive for the program. But if you namedrop someone who is vouching that you are the perfect candidate for one of the most competitive and rigorous programs in the country, it would raise some questions. If they are so competitive, why is the DAT on the lower end of the scale?
We all know admissions is very competitive, and we are all looking for the edge to get in. I agree that you should retake your DAT and aim for a much higher score. If you get a 24+ that LoR will carry more weight because your grades reflect the recommendation and potential for success at that program. It gives the letter more credibility.
For me, I had alum write me a LoR for two different schools that I applied to. I was rejected from one, and accepted to the other. Honestly, I don't think my acceptance was based too heavily on that LoR.
Keep on truckin' man. Keep studying and making your application more competitive. Work on your DAT and continue to improve your application until you get an offer. You'll get something.
Good luck!

 

[setdoc7]

HSDM is very small. They have an overwhelming amount of qualified applicants. The DAT is a predictive litmus test for success in DS. Why would an ADCOM take a risk? And it will bring down their reported mean DAT for that class. Having a high Gpa is only as good as the school it comes from. The DAT is the same for everyone.

 

[shwayne]

Ill try to keep the "brutally" in check, but my honest opinion is that with your stats, you will likely land some interviews if you apply broadly. But I really doubt that you would be competitive for HSDM, especially for the joint program. That's not to say you won't get in anywhere, but it's important to manage expectations.
I always try to put myself in others shoes: if I was sitting on the ADCOM and your application came across it would raise my eyebrows. Why? Because you have a relatively competitive GPA, but not for HSDM, and your DAT is not competitive for the program. But if you namedrop someone who is vouching that you are the perfect candidate for one of the most competitive and rigorous programs in the country, it would raise some questions. If they are so competitive, why is the DAT on the lower end of the scale?
We all know admissions is very competitive, and we are all looking for the edge to get in. I agree that you should retake your DAT and aim for a much higher score. If you get a 24+ that LoR will carry more weight because your grades reflect the recommendation and potential for success at that program. It gives the letter more credibility.
For me, I had alum write me a LoR for two different schools that I applied to. I was rejected from one, and accepted to the other. Honestly, I don't think my acceptance was based too heavily on that LoR.
Keep on truckin' man. Keep studying and making your application more competitive. Work on your DAT and continue to improve your application until you get an offer. You'll get something.
Good luck!

I appreciate the words! I honestly can't see myself receiving an interview there (I've voiced this to my PI), however I figured I'd get the opinion of others. I personally feel that a 24 is unreasonably high for their applicant pool, however I will retake and will aim for minimum 20s in each section.

I've been told by several ADCOMs (DMD and PhD) that my DAT is my only downfall. I feel it's less of how much you know and more of how you prepare.. so I just have to think more strategically about how I study on the 2nd go.

Thanks!