Does you Masters GPA matter?

[Carlsbad1919]

I am currently getting a Masters of Public Health, biostatistics and epidemiology track. My undergraduate GPA is very low (around a 2.5) but my graduate GPA is a 3.7 (soon to be higher with my new summer grades). I went to a very good and very hard college and my undergraduate experience was rough (lots of very very bad luck) that I get to explain in my personal comments but I am afraid med schools won't even look. My MCAT score is a 32. Do my grad school grades matter? Do I still have a shot of getting? Thanks a bunch!

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[Law2Doc]

I am currently getting a Masters of Public Health, biostatistics and epidemiology track. My undergraduate GPA is very low (around a 2.5) but my graduate GPA is a 3.7 (soon to be higher with my new summer grades). I went to a very good and very hard college and my undergraduate experience was rough (lots of very very bad luck) that I get to explain in my personal comments but I am afraid med schools won't even look. My MCAT score is a 32. Do my grad school grades matter? Do I still have a shot of getting? Thanks a bunch!

I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but your undergrad grades will kill your chances, IMHO. While adcoms will "see" your MPH GPA, it will not serve to balance out your undergrad GPA, which will loom large. Generally it's best to think of graduate work as a cool EC; med schools like them, but won't use them to supplant the necessary numerical stats which you also need to have in place. The average undergrad GPA for matriculants is a 3.5 so a 2.5 simply won't cut it. People with low undergrad GPAs can only fix them by taking more undergrad coursework. There is a column on AMCAS involving undergrad GPA plus undergrad level postbac which is reportedly what adcoms focus on. Some people have also had success getting a string of A's in graduate programs to show they can handle the hard sciences, notwithstanding their undergrad GPA, but it generally must be from an SMP or a "hard science" masters, not an MPH (which is considered composed of the "softer" sciences).

Given your GPA, taking the MCAT was premature. It will likely expire before you can get your grades up to the point that you are ready to apply to med school. You can get there from here, but plan on it being a multi-year endeavor. It would probably have been more useful for you to ask your question before taking the MCAT and launching into an MPH. Sorry.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

I agree with Law2Doc. Schools look to your undergraduate (which amazingly enough is seen to be harder than many graduate-level programs) GPA to gauge how you'll do in medical school along with the MCAT. They particularly focus on your science GPA (BCMP: Biology, Chemistry, Math, Physics) as a predictor of your success with the hard sciences in medical school.

Just to be clear, the AMCAS breaks out three GPAs...

• Undergraduate GPA: the GPA you got for your first degree and all other post bacc work as an undergraduate.
• Undergraduate Post Baccalaureate GPA: only the GPA of your undergraduate post bacc work.
• Graduate GPA: only your graduate work.

If you do 1-2 years of post-bacc hard sciences full-time, and show a near 4.0 in that Undergraudate Post Baccalaureate GPA column, that'd go a long way to alleviate any fears in the adcom about your abilities to handle the sciences in medical school.

You could still use your 32 MCAT as it'll expire for most schools 3 years after you took it, but it'll be close. You could take a full-load this fall and spring of upper-division sciences, and apply next year. (note: be sure you are enrolled as an undergraduate student, not a graduate student as taking undergraduate courses as a grad student puts them under the graduate GPA column) You might need to re-apply again if things don't work out.

 

[Nokternal7]

I'd say bring your undergrad science gpa and undergrad AO gpa up to at least a 3.0 before applying to med school. With your 32 on the MCAT and this new gpa, you have a decent shot at getting in somewhere. Also apply to a few DO schools. What state are you from? Where are you doing your mph? Unfortunately your MPH grades don't hold too much weight in the admissions process.

Good luck 😀

 

[sendwich]

how many science units do you have (ug)? were you a science major? If you dont have too much, why don't you take some upper division science, ace them, bring your ug gpa above 3.0, and you're set. 🙂

 

[Husky85]

It's one thing to have average grades and apply to med school, but a 2.5 is low by the standards of any profession (except maybe engineering, those classes are tough at most schools). Med schools won't be impressed by the "i had a real tough time in undergrad so my gpa there shouldn't be as low as it is" line . I had a very difficult undergrad school, and my life was really tough (my friends joke with me that God hates me)...but I still pulled off a 3.6+ gpa in a hard science and a 33+ mcat. Schools want to see that you overcame adversity...not that you submitted to it!

Also, a 3.7 MPH gpa isn't even that high. Usually for grad school gpas, good grades are expected because that's "your field". And from all the MPH's i've talked to I feel like there's a good deal of grade inflation at most schools too, further tarnishing your 3.7 in the eyes of med school adcoms.

I agree with other posters...go back and get a second undergrad major in a hard science (biochem, cell bio, chemistry, physics, engineering...not ecology or psych...they're soft sciences). Take two years to do that and get some real strong clinical and research experience. Then you can just play off your previous bad performance in hard science as immaturity of your younger years and say that you proved you grew as a person by your good performance in the second major. You still have a very good chance...in my opinion everybody has a chance if they're willing to punch in and do the work, because it doesn't require to much 'intellegence' to get in, undergrad is mostly busywork...you just have an uphill battle from here on out.

 

[Carlsbad1919]

I was a bio major in college (my school does not divide them into micro, cell, etc. - just bio). Also, I went to the University of Chicago - not a school where grade inflation is an issue. I have been taking graduate science classes while I am getting my mph (my only non A was actually a poly-sci class..ugh). Can I just sign up for the local state school and start taking undergrade science classes? Thanks again for the advice.

 

[armybound]

you can sign up at a local college, but I think you might need to let them know you're not a degree seeking student. otherwise when you apply they'll require you to finish your degree first.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

you can sign up at a local college, but I think you might need to let them know you're not a degree seeking student. otherwise when you apply they'll require you to finish your degree first.

Not true for most schools (Tulane is one that does care from when I applied) as long as it's another undergraduate degree and assuming you already have a B.S. or B.A. degree. If it's a masters or doctoral degree you are pursuing, then almost all schools require you to finish that. If you are a degree-seeking student you are also eligible for student loans, but not grants.

 

[dutchman]

I disagree with some of the above posts. If you make it clear to the adcom that you have turned a corner, you might be able to pull it off. A transition from 2.5 to a 3.7 GPA does say a lot. I would not mention that your undergrad grades was as a result of your college being difficult, since medschool is also difficult.

 

[HreComesTheSun]

Not true for most schools (Tulane is one that does care from when I applied) as long as it's another undergraduate degree (assuming you already have a B.S. or B.A.). If it's a masters or doctoral degree, then almost all schools require you to finish that. If you are a degree-seeking student you are also eligible for student loans, but not grants.

do you mean almost all med schools require you to finish? i didn't know that was the case, cause one of my friends never finished her MPH and none of the schools she was accepted to had a problem with it

 

[LifetimeDoc]

do you mean almost all med schools require you to finish? i didn't know that was the case, cause one of my friends never finished her MPH and none of the schools she was accepted to had a problem with it

It's just what I've been told or heard from adcoms. Many masters/PhD programs invest money into you and expect you to finish. As with many of these types of situations, it depends on the particular medical school.

In her case, the schools she got accepted at may just assume she is going to finish. If I was her, I'd be sure to clear it with the schools before I assumed I'd be able to matriculate.

 

[HreComesTheSun]

yeah, she definitely had to ask permission from those med schools to matriculate without finishing

 

[armybound]

A couple of the secondaries I've gotten even said that if I'm in a graduate program I have to have a letter from my graduate program stating that it's OK for me to be applying.

 

[Law2Doc]

I disagree with some of the above posts. If you make it clear to the adcom that you have turned a corner, you might be able to pull it off. A transition from 2.5 to a 3.7 GPA does say a lot. I would not mention that your undergrad grades was as a result of your college being difficult, since medschool is also difficult.

No way. If it was a 3.7 in undergrad or hard science grad or SMP I would agree with you. But to have tanked as a bio major but are doing well as an MPH grad doesn't carry the same weight for adcoms. It doesn't look like turning the corner it looks like you just tried a different street. So it will give them less confidence that OP is ready for the rigors of med school sciences. This is exactly why folks do SMPs instead of a potentially useful masters like the MPH.

 

[Karina 07]

No way. If it was a 3.7 in undergrad or hard science grad or SMP I would agree with you. But to have tanked as a bio major but are doing well as an MPH grad doesn't carry the same weight for adcoms. It doesn't look like turning the corner it looks like you just tried a different street. So it will give them less confidence that OP is ready for the rigors of med school sciences. This is exactly why folks do SMPs instead of a potentially useful masters like the MPH.

So regarding my boyf's hard science master's GPA of a bit over 3.5, of another thread, considering his undergrad BCMP GPA was something like 2.98, that's a big jump, right? (Total undergrad GPA 3.3ish.)

 

[Law2Doc]

So regarding my boyf's hard science master's GPA of a bit over 3.5, of another thread, considering his undergrad BCMP GPA was something like 2.98, that's a big jump, right? (Total undergrad GPA 3.3ish.)

They won't ever really look at a combined undergrad and grad GPA if that is what you are saying (which is why a lot of people do undergrad level postbac work to rehabilitate GPA), but yes, if the adcoms' concern was ability to handle med school sciences, doing well in a hard science masters is helpful, certainly more helpful in this respect than if he had gotten an MPH.

 

[littlealex]

I think with your scores you stand a good chance at getting into a Carribean school, especially with the 32 MCAT. However, you probably won't even make it past most US school screens.

The most useful thing for you is to check yourself into a Post-Bac program if you can get in one. It shows dedication and it raises your undergraduate GPA. Plus they provide a lot of guidance for you.

To be fair though, I have no idea how Postbac compares to just taking classes at a state school. Likely postbac looks better, but by how much, and is it worth the extra cash, who knows.

Lastly, don't ever use the excuse "my undergraduate institution was hard" on your application. It's okay to complain about it here, but medical schools want to see you challenge yourself and succeed. The minute you admit to getting poorg grades as a result of being challenged, you've shown them your limits. Unless you have a good reason to suggest to them that such failures won't happen again, your chances are pretty low.

p.s. UChicago is a hard school that doesn't inflate grades. However, remember that MOST schools don't inflate grades, and I feel that the ones who do inflate their grades do so with relatively good reason.

 

[Carlsbad1919]

Thanks for all the advice. Just to clarify (don't like the idea of being thought of as just whining...). I meant Uchicago is a hard school but my GPA shows me doing well and then huge drops where something really bad happened, and twice more. I figured one incident might be okay but three's pushing it. Anyway - thanks again - gave me lots to think about.

 

[63768]

your grad GPA will help your application, how much it helps depends. the biggest worry that med schools have is the fact that you may not be able to handle rigorous science based courses. since it's an MPH focusing on epi and biostats, some adcoms may consider it rigorous and challenging enough to place less weight on your undergrad. others may simply see the MPH and not give you a shot.

maybe you could try to take a few other science courses to show them you can handle the load?

oh and IMO, the fact that you went to UChicago will mean next to nothing. i went to rice univ where apparently there's no grade inflation either, but med schools couldn't seem to care less until i showed them i could take the science courses and excel.

 

[sendwich]

it's great that you did very well in the MPH program but unfortunately, most schools recognize that an MPH degree doesn't really go into the hard science. Excelling in an SMP, or even a hard science (ie bio, microbio, chem, etc) might have been a better way to convince adcoms of any upward trends. sorry to break it to you, but better know now than later.

if medicine really is your dream, you need to go back and do some damage control. this can be done by taking upper div science courses to boost your undergrad gpa, which probably has to be followed by some SMP type of work. Getting your gpa high enough simply with a bunch of undergrad classes is gonna take a really long time. get your ug gpa up at least to a 3.0, do an SMP, and you shoudl be set. 👍