Does your school let you do molar endo?

[Soflex]

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I am a dental student just finishing up with my second year. At my school (UNLV) we are currently evaluating our pre-doctoral endodontics clinical program and are trying to gather information from other dental schools about their pre-doctoral (NOT SPECIALTY) endodontic training. We are interested in learning about:

• How much clinical endodontic experience are pre-doctoral dental students expected to have prior to graduation? Are there a set number of root canal treatments that they must complete?
• Is a competency in root canal therapy required?
• What types of endodontic procedures are students performing?
• Do dental students perform molar endo?
• What kind of instrumentation do dental students use? Are they trained to use rotary instrumentation?
• Do you have an endodontics specialty on campus?
• Do endodontists oversee dental students who perform RCT or is it mainly general dentists?
• And any other information you feel is important…

Thank you!!!!

 

[phremius]

DDS Graduation requirement for endo is 5, 1 must be a 1st molar, with 1 competency

Hand and rotary are utilized to complete endo. All endos can be done by undergrads except 2nd and 3rd molars. Weirdly shaped/rooted teeth that are not 2nd molars are generally referred, though if the student has faculty support they may do it.

Yes there is an endo specialty here.

Almost all endos are done with specialists, though occasionally if an endodontist is not available it can be done with a general faculty.

 

[crazy_sherm]

The endo director wants at least 8, if you had less than that, they better have been some really difficult cases. Most people graduate with more. We have 8 competencies which can all be completed on 2 teeth if they happen to qualify. We do not have an endo residency, so anything our patient needs, we get to do: 1st/2nd/3rd molar, retreats, calcified canals, post retrieval, apicos, etc. -- as long as it's clinically appropriate. We're supervised by endodontists unless we're doing an emergency access and an endodontist isn't available. We use rotary on every RCT that we can, but we usually only use cold lateral condensation. If you've done a good amount of endo, certain instructors will teach you to use the Obtura or Thermafil systems. The endo instructors are great, very patient with us and don't ever discourage us from taking on a challenging case. They like to let us sweat through it a bit but are always willing to help when you get stuck. We have 4 microscopes set up in the endo area, each of which is shared between two operatories. We also have 2 or 3 additional portable scopes that can be rolled over to any operatory.

 

[armorshell]

The endo director wants at least 8, if you had less than that, they better have been some really difficult cases. Most people graduate with more. We have 8 competencies which can all be completed on 2 teeth if they happen to qualify.

New rules are you have to do 4 complete cases before you can start doing competencies, so there's that too.

 

[tinman831]

Here at Tufts we are required to do 10 canals before graduation and they require you to do an anterior canal first just to get used to it before you can go onto molars. Depending on our skill level, we may get permission to go ahead and work with calcified or curved canals too, 1M, 2M, 3M, or whatever.

All endo is performed in the endodontic department, and there are endodontic residents as well as endodontic instructors who will watch and assist with any procedure you may be doing. I'm itching to do some endo but they require us to pass on canals to any seniors who need them for graduation. 😛

 

[crazy_sherm]

New rules are you have to do 4 complete cases before you can start doing competencies, so there's that too.

Actually, that has always been the rule. What I meant is that it the 8 competencies are split into several steps, which can be covered with as few as two different teeth should they qualify.

 

[Squished Rat]

The endo director wants at least 8, if you had less than that, they better have been some really difficult cases. Most people graduate with more. We have 8 competencies which can all be completed on 2 teeth if they happen to qualify. We do not have an endo residency, so anything our patient needs, we get to do: 1st/2nd/3rd molar, retreats, calcified canals, post retrieval, apicos, etc. -- as long as it's clinically appropriate. We're supervised by endodontists unless we're doing an emergency access and an endodontist isn't available. We use rotary on every RCT that we can, but we usually only use cold lateral condensation. If you've done a good amount of endo, certain instructors will teach you to use the Obtura or Thermafil systems. The endo instructors are great, very patient with us and don't ever discourage us from taking on a challenging case. They like to let us sweat through it a bit but are always willing to help when you get stuck. We have 4 microscopes set up in the endo area, each of which is shared between two operatories. We also have 2 or 3 additional portable scopes that can be rolled over to any operatory.

I just have to ask. When would you want to do endo on a third molar? In my opinion, any third molar that is decayed enough to need endo should be extracted.

 

[armorshell]

I just have to ask. When would you want to do endo on a third molar? In my opinion, any third molar that is decayed enough to need endo should be extracted.

If it's the most distal tooth and you're planning a bridge/RPD

 

[ncalcate]

At Buffalo you have to do a single molar (either maxillary or mandibular) to graduate. The tough cases go to Postgrad Endo and the more straightforward molars go to 4th years. All RCs are performed in the endo department which is staffed by endodontists and residents.

 

[akb22]

5 endos
1 premolar
1 molar (at least four canals)
1 anterior
remaining two can be any teeth

w/ one of those being a comp.

 

[aphistis]

5 endos
1 premolar
1 molar (at least four canals)
1 anterior
remaining two can be any teeth

w/ one of those being a comp.

So if you're treating a 3-canal lower molar, do you have to just create a fourth canal on your own in order to get credit?

 

[akb22]

So if you're treating a 3-canal lower molar, do you have to just create a fourth canal on your own in order to get credit?

No, one would just have to be a maxillary first molar with MB 2

 

[Soflex]

Thanks to everyone for the replies...the information provided was very helpful!!! 🙂

 

[TimR]

wow, this has been a really discouraging thread. At Marquette we are required to do 2 anterior/bicuspid endo's. Thats it. And you can assist on 3 and count that as doing one. We have no competency and are mostly discouraged from trying. what BS

 

[IWuvTeef]

My answers are in between @@@...@@@

1. How much clinical endodontic experience are pre-doctoral dental students expected to have prior to graduation? Are there a set number of root canal treatments that they must complete? @@@12 canals. At least one incisor or pre-molar before doing 1st molars. 2nd molars and 3rds go to the grad students@@@
2. Is a competency in root canal therapy required? @@@Yes, after you have completed 7 canals@@@
3. What types of endodontic procedures are students performing? @@@Pulpotomys, pulpectomys, internal bleaching@@@
4. Do dental students perform molar endo? @@@Yes, only on first molars@@@
5. What kind of instrumentation do dental students use? @@@Hand files, apex locators, going digital on radiographs in the Fall. Obturation is done by cold lateral condensation@@@
6. Are they trained to use rotary instrumentation? @@@Yes@@@
7. Do you have an endodontics specialty on campus? @@@Yes@@@
8. Do endodontists oversee dental students who perform RCT or is it mainly general dentists?@@@Endodontists and Endo grad students always oversee us@@@

 

[K2 Dental]

This doesn't help your informal poll but... I graduated from UNLV in '07 and I have been practicing for over a year. The only molar endo I did in school was in sim lab. We were not allowed to use rotary on live patients. Pretty much my endo experience sucked. At this stage in my career I refer most molars out still. The more molars you do the more complex you realize they can be. I am planning on taking some great CE soon to increase my comfort level. Most associateships and or corporate offices will hire you if you can do molar endo. It is a joke that UNLV did not prepare their students better and sounds like they still don't. But, if you survive school and get licensed you will have plenty of opportunities with endo... you will just have to pay for them. 🙂

Best of luck.

 

[tinker bell]

UCSF: 5 cases, 3 anterior, 2 molar.
Of the 3 anterior cases, you have to choose 1 case to take CE.
It's all rotary, apex locator & warm vertical.
Plus in third year & fourth year each you have to do 2 multi-rooted on typodont. After like 20 teeth that you do in second year. You feel like you can never collect enough teeth for typodont endo

 

[mamelons]

At San Antonio, it is my understanding that it is not required to do molar endo to graduate. A lot of these cases get sent to grad endo. The only way we can do molar endo as a predoctoral student is to take an elective course that will enable us to do so.

 

[Hemogoblin]

University of Sydney, Australia:

Required to do 6 canals minimum (in 4th year) spread out over an anterior, premolar and molar. The molar is the only one that is strictly assessed at the end of the year, by the endodontists (duplicate radiographs). Re-treatments are also encouraged, and curved canals are allowed. I just obturated my second 46 molar (4 canals) yesterday morning with a heavily curved MB canal.

Unfortunately, my graduating class has had next to no rotary training so the first thing out for me, is an ADA continuing-ed class in rotary 🙂 They are introducing rotary in clinics to the 3rd years now.

BTW, one word: apex-locator! (OK, two words...)

Cheers

 

[toofshucker]

I just have to ask. When would you want to do endo on a third molar? In my opinion, any third molar that is decayed enough to need endo should be extracted.

There are a lot of cases where 3rd molar endo is appropiate. Armorshell named one. How about if the patient wants to keep the tooth, and has good OH? Trauma, ortho, missing 2nd and 1st's, etc.

That being said, I do agree with you that MOST thirds that are decayed enough for endo probably should be extracted. 😉

 

[toofshucker]

I am a dental student just finishing up with my second year. At my school (UNLV) we are currently evaluating our pre-doctoral endodontics clinical program and are trying to gather information from other dental schools about their pre-doctoral (NOT SPECIALTY) endodontic training. We are interested in learning about:

• How much clinical endodontic experience are pre-doctoral dental students expected to have prior to graduation? Are there a set number of root canal treatments that they must complete?

• 
  
  We have to do 40 points our junior year. Anterior teeth are 10, premolars are 15 and molars are higher. We have to complete 2-3 (30 points) before we do any molar endo.
  
  

  [*]Is a competency in root canal therapy required?

  
  Yes.
  
  

  [*]What types of endodontic procedures are students performing?

  
  Pulpotomy and pulpectomy. Most of the other stuff is referred to the endo residents.
  
  

  [*]Do dental students perform molar endo?

  
  Yes
  
  

  [*]What kind of instrumentation do dental students use? Are they trained to use rotary instrumentation?

  
  Hand instruments. The top twenty in endo points learn rotary their senior year.
  
  

  [*]Do you have an endodontics specialty on campus?

  
  Yes.
  
  

  [*]Do endodontists oversee dental students who perform RCT or is it mainly general dentists?

  
  Endodontists.
  
  

  [*]And any other information you feel is important…

Thank you!!!!

Your welcome.

 

[HawkeyeDDS]

If it's the most distal tooth and you're planning a bridge/RPD

Shuck it and do an implant. Generally to poor crown to root ratio to use as an abutment, plus the fact that who the hell knows how many canals there are because the morphology is so variable.

 

[lionelhutz]

5 endos
1 premolar
1 molar (at least four canals)
1 anterior
remaining two can be any teeth

w/ one of those being a comp.

I have not come across the four canal requirement on the molars. The clinical manual outlining our requirements does not state anywhere the required number of canals on molars.

Technically at USC were are required to complete 6 RCTs with at least 1 anterior, 1 premolar, and 1 molar and the other 3 can be anything else. One can graduate with 5 RCTs only if they pass a Mock boards exercise on a typodont.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

We have to do 2 anterior/premolars in our junior year and 1 molar in senior year. You can choose to be an endo minor and do more than way.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

At Univ. at Buffalo...

I am a dental student just finishing up with my second year. At my school (UNLV) we are currently evaluating our pre-doctoral endodontics clinical program and are trying to gather information from other dental schools about their pre-doctoral (NOT SPECIALTY) endodontic training. We are interested in learning about:

• How much clinical endodontic experience are pre-doctoral dental students expected to have prior to graduation? Are there a set number of root canal treatments that they must complete?
  
  See my other post
  
• Is a competency in root canal therapy required?
  
  Yup
  
• What types of endodontic procedures are students performing?
  
  Traditional endo, though I imagine we can assist with surgery
  
• Do dental students perform molar endo?
  
  Yes
  
• What kind of instrumentation do dental students use? Are they trained to use rotary instrumentation?
  
  Hand files and rotary with apex locators (and for obturation, we can use Obtura, vertical compaction, or whatever else is appropriate)
  
• Do you have an endodontics specialty on campus?
  
  Yes, and an endo minor for the predocs
  
• Do endodontists oversee dental students who perform RCT or is it mainly general dentists?
  
  Endodontists
  
• And any other information you feel is important…

Thank you!!!!

 

[ElDienteLoco]

How much clinical endodontic experience are pre-doctoral dental students expected to have prior to graduation? Are there a set number of root canal treatments that they must complete?

Competency-based system, but everyone essentially has to get through at least 6 or 7 teeth (including anteriors, premolars and molars)


Is a competency in root canal therapy required?

Yes, two competencies on any type of tooth


What types of endodontic procedures are students performing?

RCT of Anterior, Premolar and Molar. No retreats or surgery, but occasionally a faculty member will do these cases in the school and you can assist.


Do dental students perform molar endo?

Heck yes. (no post-grads)


What kind of instrumentation do dental students use? Are they trained to use rotary instrumentation?

Only rotary instrumentation w/ warm vertical compaction.


Do you have an endodontics specialty on campus?

No.


Do endodontists oversee dental students who perform RCT or is it mainly general dentists?

Endodontists only.


And any other information you feel is important…

Although 6-7 is the generally accepted minimum, I know a lot of students who did much more. One very good looking guy did about 80 and half of those were molars! (I stopped keeping track after 60) This is only possible because ASDOH students spend 1/2 of their 4th year on rotations at community health centers. I worked at one place where molar endo only cost the patient $150 on the sliding fee scale. That definitely helps case acceptance.

 

[umlaut]

Umeå University, Sweden

• How much clinical endodontic experience are pre-doctoral dental students expected to have prior to graduation? Are there a set number of root canal treatments that they must complete?

At least 6 RCT, 2 must be molars.

• Is a competency in root canal therapy required?

Where is it not?

• What types of endodontic procedures are students performing?

All but retrofillings.

• Do dental students perform molar endo?

Yes.

• What kind of instrumentation do dental students use? Are they trained to use rotary instrumentation?

One tooth should be treated using rotary.

• Do you have an endodontics specialty on campus?

Yes.

• Do endodontists oversee dental students who perform RCT or is it mainly general dentists?

Endodontists or dentists doing their speciality training to become endodontists.

 

[Ninety]

in our international school, we have to do min. 7 cases
3 anteriors, i 2-canals, and 3 molars (1 must be max.)
thanks god, we have a quite good training in endo 🙂

 

[bvf]

At OU we have to complete 18 canals to graduate and at least 8 total cases. 2 teeth have to be molars. We have a diagnosis competency and a molar competency. At least 2 posts and cores must also be placed to graduate. We get a great endo experience.