Does your school use preclinical shelf exams? (NBME)

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chronicidal

chronicidal

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The NBME makes subject tests for all the major preclinical subjects designed to be end-of-course assessments that parallel content areas tested on Step 1. However, I haven't heard of many schools using them. ("A biochem shelf?? What??" is a common response from others.)

  1. Does your school use them?
  2. Do you know which schools use them?
  3. What do you see as the pros and cons of using them (e.g. curricular alignment with boards, student anxiety)
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chronicidal said:
The NBME makes subject tests for all the major preclinical subjects designed to be end-of-course assessments that parallel content areas tested on Step 1. However, I haven't heard of many schools using them. ("A biochem shelf?? What??" is a common response from others.)

  1. Does your school use them?
  2. Do you know which schools use them?
  3. What do you see as the pros and cons of using them (e.g. curricular alignment with boards, student anxiety)
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My school used biochem to access our premedical school biochem knowledge.

We take the anatomy NMBE and a comprehensive NMBE before dedicated step 1 studying time starts.

Pro: it is starting point for step 1 studying
Con: I remember the biochem NMBE was hard. I haven't taken the others yet so I can't really add more about those.
 
chronicidal said:
The NBME makes subject tests for all the major preclinical subjects designed to be end-of-course assessments that parallel content areas tested on Step 1. However, I haven't heard of many schools using them. ("A biochem shelf?? What??" is a common response from others.)

  1. Does your school use them?
  2. Do you know which schools use them?
  3. What do you see as the pros and cons of using them (e.g. curricular alignment with boards, student anxiety)
Click to expand...

Yep we do them. We have Neuro on Thursday and Psych on Friday. In order to pass the classes that each applies to, it's not that difficult; we only need to pass above the 7th percentile. But in order to get high pass or honors in the class, we usually need about an 89th percentile for honors or an 80th for high pass. I think they give a pretty good idea of what's to come on Step 1, but its kind of frustrating that they are used to determine honors and whatnot. I'm not gunning for top preclinical grades since I know they don't matter as much as Step I, but still, when you have the in-house exam grades for honors and the subject exam is the only thing standing in your way, that gets a bit frustrating! That said, I feel like they aren't as hard as some people make them out to be.
 
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chronicidal said:
The NBME makes subject tests for all the major preclinical subjects designed to be end-of-course assessments that parallel content areas tested on Step 1. However, I haven't heard of many schools using them. ("A biochem shelf?? What??" is a common response from others.)

  1. Does your school use them?
  2. Do you know which schools use them?
  3. What do you see as the pros and cons of using them (e.g. curricular alignment with boards, student anxiety)
Click to expand...

1. Yes
2. Uh, no clue. I just know of my own school.
3. There's a lot.

Pros: gives you an idea of what step 1 questions/board questions are written like, what sorts of things you're expected to know or potentially get tested on, etc.
Cons: tests are typically tough. the Physiology shelf exam is notoriously incredibly difficult - I did so poorly on that exam I thought I would fail the class. Most of my classes didn't teach to the NBME shelf (which is something I agreed with, that's not what preclinical classes are for) but some of them did prepare us well nonetheless. Some of them tried preparing us and still didn't help all that much. etc etc
 
I didn't find the NBMEs to be difficult. I tended to look forward to them. They tested subjects on much higher yield level than my school's in class examinations. Questions from your NBME subject exams can appear word for word on your STEP 1 examination. I had it happen multiple times on mine. Taking NBMEs for 2 years also helped get me used to the STEP 1 question style.

Using NBMEs as final examinations is commonplace. I don't know where you got the idea that it was an unusual practice.
 
ijn said:
Using NBMEs as final examinations is commonplace. I don't know where you got the idea that it was an unusual practice.
Click to expand...

An informal survey of friends at Harvard, Duke, Stanford, UVA
 
We do the anatomy, biochem/cell bio one at the end of our first year. It's not worth a grade, so no one really took it seriously. I guess it was good practice to see the Step 1 style and see what we remembered without studying.

We also take the pharm, path, and micro ones at the end of this year (about a month or so before Step 1, so should be a good indicator). They are only worth 5% of our grade this year, and they can't make you fail the course. So again, not much pressure.

They seemed like good practice, so I guess I have no problem using them. Though, ours are worth basically nothing. Which is good because they are difficult. But it also doesn't make prepping for them very worthwhile (at least first year). This year will probably be different.
 
We don't use any pre-clinical NBMEs for final exams. If you need to remediate due to not meeting required grades for the must-pass final exam or being barely under passing overall (like 69 instead of 70) after including the final exam, then you take the NBME shelf, and have to get above around 45th percentile IIRC in order to pass.
 
We have NBMEs in M1 year for anatomy (the comprehensive one), histology, and I think they added biochem this year. As for M2 year, we have the pathology and the clinical diagnosis (?) one later next semester. I don't think we take the CBSE before Step 1 though, like some other schools do.
 
We used an NBME exam for our last class, genetics, and the current one, cell path. This is something new that they're trying out here at Pitt. I don't know yet whether they'll be using NBME exams for the remainder of our preclinical courses, though.
 
jesse120 said:
We used an NBME exam for our last class, genetics, and the current one, cell path. This is something new that they're trying out here at Pitt. I don't know yet whether they'll be using NBME exams for the remainder of our preclinical courses, though.
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I think they're gonna...I heard rumors that we'll have NBME exams for immuno and microbio, but you never know. :scared:
 
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I always thought they were less hard than in-house exams. The curriculum is standardized, the questions don't harp on your particular professor's obsessions, and there are quite good commercially available study resources. And yes, our school used them as finals for I think everything but immunology.
 
We take the biochem and anatomy NBMEs for our finals first semester. I believe one of our finals next year is also NBME.

Just took the biochem test today. I didn't think it was all that bad, definitely (as another poster mentioned) much more high-yield type of stuff than our block exams. But I guess I'll have to wait until grades come out before I can know for sure how easy it was haha
 
anyone remember any questions from this years anatomy or histology shelf?
 
Ismet said:
10 posts just about anatomy and histology NBME's over several threads? 🙄 just go study.
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Lol. This.

Our school doesn't use them (SIU). I believe AUC does, and maybe FIU. Not sure about others.

While stressful, I wouldn't have minded them just to get more exposure to USMLE caliber questions. Many students at our school do well on step 1, but we do comparatively better (even accounting for the national jump of step 1 to 2) on step 2. Because of PBL and the clinical focus, things like Biochem (think inborn errors of metabolism) aren't emphasized. :-/
 
rueby25 said:
Lol. This.

Our school doesn't use them (SIU). I believe AUC does, and maybe FIU. Not sure about others.

While stressful, I wouldn't have minded them just to get more exposure to USMLE caliber questions. Many students at our school do well on step 1, but we do comparatively better (even accounting for the national jump of step 1 to 2) on step 2. Because of PBL and the clinical focus, things like Biochem (think inborn errors of metabolism) aren't emphasized. :-/
Click to expand...

My school uses NBME subject exams for all of our MS1/MS2 courses. Our exams are computer based, 120 questions, 3 hours max, and all clinical vignettes. They are very very difficult. No one aces them. They tell us that if we average at least 70% scores on the NBME Exams, it is predicted that we will earn at least a 220 on the Step 1

I am very grateful for having these types of exams at my schools since they are preparing me for the Step 1. Other medical schools in my state have professors write their exams and when I meet with these other students, we have very different mastery of the subject material.
 
At my school (West Virginia University) we have to take them for all classes our MS1 and MS2 years except histo and ethics. Cut off for passing: 12th percentile.
 
lgbtdoctor said:
My school uses NBME subject exams for all of our MS1/MS2 courses. Our exams are computer based, 120 questions, 3 hours max, and all clinical vignettes. They are very very difficult. No one aces them. They tell us that if we average at least 70% scores on the NBME Exams, it is predicted that we will earn at least a 220 on the Step 1

I am very grateful for having these types of exams at my schools since they are preparing me for the Step 1. Other medical schools in my state have professors write their exams and when I meet with these other students, we have very different mastery of the subject material.
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Same here. Second year exams were significantly more difficult...esp clin med. First year was varied. But I agree - these exams were helpful. Despite bitching about them during school, I do think they've helped tremendously in retaining this material. Having the Path/Clin Med/Pharm final shelf in early May = all content reviewed for step 1. :laugh:
 
Bump.

Our school (Meharry) uses them first year and second year. First year, first semester: Anatomy and Biochem. First year second semester: Neuro and Micro.
Second year, we have 7 exams over a course of 3 weeks in May: Path, Phys, Pharm, Histo, Behavioral, Physical Dx and then a comprehensive, and we have to pass with a 65% to sit for Step.

Pros: It forces you to do a wholeeeeee lot of questions than you'd probably do if you weren't studying for subject boards. By the time each of the exams comes around, many students have gone through Kaplan questions, Uworld questions, and sources like PreTest in panicked preparation, so it puts a little fire under you.

Cons: Obviously it's an extremely stressful preparation process, especially with sitting for Step being contingent on whether you pass a subject board, some of which seems low yield for Step (i.e. Histo). Also, for students wanting to take Step earlier in the window period (early June), it cuts into dedicated Step time and getting through UWorld and Goljan, unless you have been doing them all semester.
 
can students get access to these exams if their school does not use them?
 
We have them for all classes except histo. Have to get 12th percentile or better to pass the class. I think they are useful and help give you a jump start on Step 1 studying, but there is a lot of pressure (have 5 shelf exams over the course of two weeks and have to pass everyone or repeat the year).
 
Yes, for all classes besides neuro. We take the class and then take the shelf at the end of the class as it's final exam. It's typically 1/4 of our grade and is always 1-2 days after our last lecture exam. Half of my class just goes into it dry.
 
Few days after last exam in each class; makes up significant portion of course grade. May simulate boards testing environment (ie. timing, computerized MCQ, format). However, imo they're pretty much pointless in terms of actual learning. A few weeks after I take it, I'm greeted with a score report giving performance bars for each topic tested and raw percentile (national avg. is standardized to 50%). Since they're sold to institutions by the NBME for commercial profit, neither a score key is given nor answer explanations, rendering it useless for my personal learning. Seems to foster the binge & purge attitude, if anything. No thanks.

I'm sure if a comparison was made on Step 1 scores between schools who use preclinical NBMEs and those who don't, the results would be insignificant and ultimately untelling, since there is a wide variability of factors that goes into boards performance.
 
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Daodejing said:
Few days after last exam in each class; makes up significant portion of course grade. May simulate boards testing environment (ie. timing, computerized MCQ, format). However, imo they're pretty much pointless in terms of actual learning. A few weeks after I take it, I'm greeted with a score report giving performance bars for each topic tested and raw percentile (national avg. is standardized to 50%). Since they're sold to institutions by the NBME for commercial profit, neither a score key is given nor answer explanations, rendering it useless for my personal learning. Seems to foster the binge & purge attitude, if anything. No thanks.

I'm sure if a comparison was made on Step 1 scores between schools who use preclinical NBMEs and those who don't, the results would be insignificant and ultimately untelling, since there is a wide variability of factors that goes into boards performance.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, they don't show you what you got wrong and their performance bars are completely useless. I thought they were a good thing at the beginning but there's no point if you can't go over the questions and look at answer explanations a la uworld.
 
Psai said:
Totally agree, they don't show you what you got wrong and their performance bars are completely useless. I thought they were a good thing at the beginning but there's no point if you can't go over the questions and look at answer explanations a la uworld.
Click to expand...

Plus the fact that at that point in the semester/quarter/trimester/adventure/whatever you call it, 95 % of the students give 0 f***s and everyone just wants to get out of there
 
I think the biggest pro is not having to deal with the ******ed internal exams for the final. We have a shelf for most of our finals and thank god for them. I've come close (1 point) to failing an internal exam, but never a shelf.

SurgeDO said:
can students get access to these exams if their school does not use them?
Click to expand...

Not for the preclincal shelves afaik.
 
SurgeDO said:
can students get access to these exams if their school does not use them?
Click to expand...
No only the school can buy them. You can get sample questions from those exams on a PDF on the NBME website.
 
Daodejing said:
Few days after last exam in each class; makes up significant portion of course grade. May simulate boards testing environment (ie. timing, computerized MCQ, format). However, imo they're pretty much pointless in terms of actual learning. A few weeks after I take it, I'm greeted with a score report giving performance bars for each topic tested and raw percentile (national avg. is standardized to 50%). Since they're sold to institutions by the NBME for commercial profit, neither a score key is given nor answer explanations, rendering it useless for my personal learning. Seems to foster the binge & purge attitude, if anything. No thanks.

I'm sure if a comparison was made on Step 1 scores between schools who use preclinical NBMEs and those who don't, the results would be insignificant and ultimately untelling, since there is a wide variability of factors that goes into boards performance.
Click to expand...
Wrong. The literature has in fact shown a correlation between NBME preclinical exam scores and USMLE Step 1 performance.
 
DermViser said:
No only the school can buy them. You can get sample questions from those exams on a PDF on the NBME website.
Click to expand...

yea, those 20 free questions from each subject exam, about 3-4 will show up word for word on the real deal. We just finished our shelves yesterday with Path and from the 4 shelf exams, each shelf had at least 2 questions from those practice sets come up.
 
notbobtrustme said:
yea, those 20 free questions from each subject exam, about 3-4 will show up word for word on the real deal. We just finished our shelves yesterday with Path and from the 4 shelf exams, each shelf had at least 2 questions from those practice sets come up.
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Yup they're all "retired" questions by the NBME that used to be real board questions before they changed the formatting on the Steps.
 
DermViser said:
Yup they're all "retired" questions by the NBME that used to be real board questions before they changed the formatting on the Steps.
Click to expand...

That explains why there were so many questions that were simple and easy to understand. The amount of obfuscation and reading between the lines in Uworld scenarios...
 
Psai said:
That explains why there were so many questions that were simple and easy to understand. The amount of obfuscation and reading between the lines in Uworld scenarios...
Click to expand...

Yes, bc they're "subject-based", the NBMEs can't be exactly like the real thing. The real Step 1 tends to have more interdisciplinary crossing-over, where you can't necessarily identify something as a 100% "Biochemistry" question. So they'll have a vignette that describes what you think leads into a Pathology question and they switch it up near the end and you realize that it's a Behavioral Science epidemiology/biostats question.

They also have:
  • multimedia questions: like heart murmurs you have to listen to
  • images: Radiology imaging, Gross path, Histology images
  • A-K questions
  • sequential test-item questions
  • Two-step questions
These test writers get paid quite a bit to do this.

BSN61fn.jpg
 
notbobtrustme said:
yea, those 20 free questions from each subject exam, about 3-4 will show up word for word on the real deal. We just finished our shelves yesterday with Path and from the 4 shelf exams, each shelf had at least 2 questions from those practice sets come up.
Click to expand...

The only time I looked at the practice qs before a shelf was for BS, and not even 1 showed up. Not just that, the real deal was MUCH harder than the practice qs (which are a joke)
 
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Brain Bucket said:
I almost always end up doing pretest for most shelves. The one for BS is pretty old, however, so I did the one for psych.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
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They really never change the questions to the Pretest books that I have seen. They do slap a dandy new cover on them to make it look like they've revised them.
 
DermViser said:
They really never change the questions to the Pretest books that I have seen. They do slap a dandy new cover on them to make it look like they've revised them.
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There were quite a few for path. I did both editions (12th and 13 th). I also did both Robbins (2nd and 3rd) 🙁

I must have done over 5k qs for path alone.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
 
Brain Bucket said:
There were quite a few for path. I did both editions (12th and 13 th). I also did both Robbins (2nd and 3rd) 🙁

I must have done over 5k qs for path alone.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Wow, you're really going to ACE the boards.
 
DermViser said:
Wrong. The literature has in fact shown a correlation between NBME preclinical exam scores and USMLE Step 1 performance.
Click to expand...

Care to link? I wonder if they compared individual subject NBME scores, such that some subjects correlated more than others...or if they took an avg of the sample's NBME scores, in aggregate, for correlation to Step performance.
 
notbobtrustme said:
yea, those 20 free questions from each subject exam, about 3-4 will show up word for word on the real deal. We just finished our shelves yesterday with Path and from the 4 shelf exams, each shelf had at least 2 questions from those practice sets come up.
Click to expand...

Link me please
 
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