Doing current research - Ask for publication?

[Dreaming big]

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Heres the deal:
Currently, I have started out in a lab under a really nice PI who likes to get undergrads on publications. I plan on staying for the next three years. Before I started, however, the lab had a publication accepted if we made certain revisions and conducted other tests. Since I have done none of this, I want to be involved with the other part. I also want a publication, because I am not sure if I will have any more in the future or not. Should I ask her to put my name on the pub? how should I go about this?

One of the reasons I want this is so that I can not have to worry about getting a pub for med school and just enjoy the research from here on in. This would get something out of my control done.

 

[Disinence2]

Good Luck


You can always ask. I've seen people get their names on publications before by doing similar things, however its not exactly something you can just check off your list.

 

[randombetch]

Never ask. It'll make you look like a douche.

Your PI will give you a pub if you deserve one.

By the way, I don't think "doing tests" counts as intellectual contributions that deserve authorship.

 

[Tots]

Don't worry about publications...just enjoy research and learn!

 

[causalinference]

In my experience, if a PI likes you and/or you express interest in receiving a publication, your chances will improve. I made it clear to my PI from the early stages of my research that I was primarily interested in being published. He has since gone out of his way to allocate me experiments.

 

[BlueElmo]

Don't ask, you will look like a huge tool.

 

[Ilovewater]

+1 for Elmo. You will come off like a huge tool. You shouldn't expect to be published by doing a few experiments especially when you barely started in the lab. Authorship requires a lot of knowledge about the whole experiment, and you probably don't have that as a newbie.

Don't worry about getting a pub for med school. Many people get in without publications. Just enjoy what you do, and if you're dedicated and your experiments go right, a pub might happen!

 

[FlowRate]

When I was talking to my prof about doing research, I straight-up told him it would be nice if I was able to get published, but from what I hoped was a rather humble angle. He pretty much told me that I will get published in December with my research partner. =) I noticed earlier that he puts his name last on pubs done by undergrads/master's students (instead of first like some PI's) so that's very generous, too.

But anyway, from your OP, asking to get put on the pub sounds super presumptuous.

 

[Sammich117]

Don't ask, you will look like a huge tool.

this

 

[kami333]

When I was talking to my prof about doing research, I straight-up told him it would be nice if I was able to get published, but from what I hoped was a rather humble angle. He pretty much told me that I will get published in December with my research partner. =) I noticed earlier that he puts his name last on pubs done by undergrads/master's students (instead of first like some PI's) so that's very generous, too.

Last author is typically the most prestigious one, it goes to the person who oversaw the whole project and provided the mentoring/funding for it (and is typically the corresponding author everyone sends questions to). I would be slightly hesitant to work in a lab where the "PI" was the first author, it sounds like a junior PI who is still working out of someone else's lab and hasn't really gotten past the postdoc phase yet. (Grad students and postdocs need first author papers to show it was their project, PIs need last author papers to show they can mentor grad students/postdocs to publish first author papers)



OP: As for asking, I think it just depends on the PI. I know of a lot PIs (including those on vairous MD, MD/PhD, residency, etc adcoms) that wouldn't consider your research experience "genuine" unless you are an author on a paper (doesn't matter if you are only 15th out of 20, just before all the collaborating PIs, you just need to be on it) and will put ugrads on one even though all they did was aliquot DNA. At the same time, I also know a lot of PIs who despise the premeds/med students/residents/fellows who "collect" publications and will grill you mercilessly on them. It comes down to how well you know your PI and how they view you (and premeds in general).

 

[JJMrK]

Last author is typically the most prestigious one, it goes to the person who oversaw the whole project and provided the mentoring/funding for it (and is typically the corresponding author everyone sends questions to). I would be slightly hesitant to work in a lab where the "PI" was the first author, it sounds like a junior PI who is still working out of someone else's lab and hasn't really gotten past the postdoc phase yet. (Grad students and postdocs need first author papers to show it was their project, PIs need last author papers to show they can mentor grad students/postdocs to publish first author papers)



OP: As for asking, I think it just depends on the PI. I know of a lot PIs (including those on vairous MD, MD/PhD, residency, etc adcoms) that wouldn't consider your research experience "genuine" unless you are an author on a paper (doesn't matter if you are only 15th out of 20, just before all the collaborating PIs, you just need to be on it) and will put ugrads on one even though all they did was aliquot DNA. At the same time, I also know a lot of PIs who despise the premeds/med students/residents/fellows who "collect" publications and will grill you mercilessly on them. It comes down to how well you know your PI and how they view you (and premeds in general).

This can also depend on the specifications of the journal.

 

[Dreaming big]

OP: As for asking, I think it just depends on the PI. I know of a lot PIs (including those on vairous MD, MD/PhD, residency, etc adcoms) that wouldn't consider your research experience "genuine" unless you are an author on a paper (doesn't matter if you are only 15th out of 20, just before all the collaborating PIs, you just need to be on it) and will put ugrads on one even though all they did was aliquot DNA. At the same time, I also know a lot of PIs who despise the premeds/med students/residents/fellows who "collect" publications and will grill you mercilessly on them. It comes down to how well you know your PI and how they view you (and premeds in general).

This is partly why I want the pub; aside from this, I know at several med schools, having a pub counts as a 4/4 on the research part of your application, be it first author or 15th author.

As for asking, I was wondering if there is a way to ask that wouldn't be super tool like.

 

[JonSwan]

It is considered to be at best dishonest and at the worst unethical to put somebody's name on a paper who has not contributed significantly to the ideas in the paper or to the writing of the paper. Don't ask your PI to do something that could border on unethical.

Also, remember, that once your name is on a publication, you are responsible for it. You must be able to answer any questions an interviewer might have about the contents of the paper or your role in the research. You don't want to have your name on a paper to which you contributed very very little.

 

[austinap]

This can also depend on the specifications of the journal.

In any basic science journal, the last author is the PI. It's weird otherwise.


OP, let me get this straight: you just joined a lab, and they recently got a paper back that was accepted with revisions. You did none of the original work, yet you want to be put on the pub? Absolutely not. If you tried this in my lab, you would immediately and forever lose all credibility with the grad students and post docs in the lab.

In addition to your request being bogus, most journals have specific guidelines as to what constitutes authorship. Performing one or two experiments usually doesn't count. Usually, that isn't even enough to get you into the acknowledgments section.

Look at it from the other perspective: some grad student has probably been working on this project for a solid 2-3 years, maybe longer. If you were in his shoes, how would you feel if some undergrad joined the lab, contributed nothing intellectual to your project, did one easy-as-pie experiment, and then demanded that their name be placed next to yours for their 'contributions'?

 

[shiftingmirage]

Never ask. It'll make you look like a douche.

Your PI will give you a pub if you deserve one.

By the way, I don't think "doing tests" counts as intellectual contributions that deserve authorship.

👍

 

[wanderer]

This is partly why I want the pub; aside from this, I know at several med schools, having a pub counts as a 4/4 on the research part of your application, be it first author or 15th author.

As for asking, I was wondering if there is a way to ask that wouldn't be super tool like.

It's only "4/4" if you actually did something to deserve the authorship.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Okay, at this point, I'm just curious. Why do you, OP, continue to do these activities that you clearly have little to no interest in for the sake of bolstering your med school application*? If you're already in med school, you're wasting your time. Is there something I'm missing, here?

In any event, I agree that you should not ask to be on a publication. As was said, you'll be on it if you deserve to be.

*For those of you who are unaware, the OP is supposedly in a combined BS/MD program already.

 

[Dreaming big]

Okay, at this point, I'm just curious. Why do you, OP, continue to do these activities that you clearly have little to no interest in for the sake of bolstering your med school application*? If you're already in med school, you're wasting your time. Is there something I'm missing, here?



*For those of you who are unaware, the OP is supposedly in a combined BS/MD program already.

I am accepted to the albany (union) bs/md/mba program. However, after living in albany for 3 months now, I don't think I can stay for another 8 years. Which is fine since they will allow you to apply out, but you lose your seat. Thus, I want to be sure that I can get into a medical school regularly as well.

 

[apumic]

You can always ask, but.... have you done any actual work yet? From your OP it sounded like you haven't actually done much of anything -- not even grunt RA work (which typically barely leads to a "special thanks" note much less an author credit). I think you should actually get some work done on a project before you start asking for author credits.