Doing plastics

[tjmDO]

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Starting a DO Gen Surg residency in June. What is the best route for me to become a plastic surgeon?, and should I do plastics or a fellowship in cosmetics only?

Thanks

 

[navysurgeon]

read the recent article on DO docs and plastics in the April 2006 PRS. enlightening.

a 'cosmetic' fellowship is a complete joke, IMO. its worth nothing, and good luck getting hospital privlidges anywhere if you're not board certified by ASPS.

 

[medhacker]

read the recent article on DO docs and plastics in the April 2006 PRS. enlightening.

a 'cosmetic' fellowship is a complete joke, IMO. its worth nothing, and good luck getting hospital privlidges anywhere if you're not board certified by ASPS.

You go Dr. Pandeya, good article 👍

 

[FrkyBgStok]

anyone have a link to this article?

 

[medhacker]

anyone have a link to this article?

I have attached it. Enjoy! 👍

 

[FrkyBgStok]

i knew i recognized the name. he used to practice in my area, retired now. Great guy.

 

[mocheese]

I have attached it. Enjoy! 👍

sorry, i am an idiot. where do you find the attached article?

 

[mocheese]

nevermind. i guess it wasnt loading up earlier. great article.

 

[tjmDO]

Great article, but how many allopathic programs will honor the call? I don't think many. It is pathetic that an entire profession must beg to gain entry to a fellowship that should openly except it.

Oh well. I am an Osteopath and damn proud to be one!!!!!!!

 

[mysophobe]

Word. 👍

 

[medhacker]

Great article, but how many allopathic programs will honor the call? I don't think many. It is pathetic that an entire profession must beg to gain entry to a fellowship that should openly except it.

Oh well. I am an Osteopath and damn proud to be one!!!!!!!

True

hey tjmDO, I PMed you, did you receive it?

 

[gary_ruska]

good luck getting hospital privlidges anywhere if you're not board certified by ASPS.

Gary Ruska highly doubts that this is in any way true. At GR's hospital, ENT, OMFS, Ophtho, ObGyn, and to varying degrees Derm all have privileges to perform cosmetic surgery applicable to their respective anatomical areas.

Also interesting that the poster boy (Dr. Robert 'Karate Kid' Rey) for plastic surgery is not board certified...I wonder if he has hospital privileges...

 

[cdql]

I thought he practiced in his own clinic?

 

[cynthia2006]

And why is a cosmetic fellowship worthless? Are they easy to get? What do you learn in cosmo. fellowship?

Thanks!!!
Cynthia

 

[navysurgeon]

And why is a cosmetic fellowship worthless? Are they easy to get? What do you learn in cosmo. fellowship?

Thanks!!!
Cynthia

most plastic surgeons are not interested in doing 100% cosmetic surgery.

if you're interested in only doing cosmetic surgery, then do a cosmo fellowship. most of these docs are pretty marginalized by the general medical community.

if you want to be a plstic surgeon, then compete for a fellowship with the rest of us.

 

[tjmDO]

Hey Navysurgeon, I think you are pretty marginal. I have read some of your posts and you are a pretty negative person. Maybe you should keep your mouth shut if you don't have anything good to say and quit discouraging young aspiring physicians and surgeons. We all know you hate D.O.'s and think that anyone going into plastics should allow you to proceed ahead of them because they are obviously inferior, but don't discourage people because you don't think, and I use that term lightly, that a cosmetic fellowship is marginal. Give back to those that follow your lead rather than take away.

 

[Dr. K]

I don't see the link, can someone please post the URL address again? Thanks!

 

[DrKeys]

Hey Medhacker, can you PM me the link to DO doing plastic in the editorial of PRS? thanks

 

[medhacker]

Hi Guys


It is upthere with the original attachment, Nonetheless, if you don't see it just click here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=6167 enjoy 🙂

 

[OzDDS]

Hi Guys


It is upthere with the original attachment, Nonetheless, if you don't see it just click here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=6167 enjoy 🙂

From link above:

"I believe that a D.O. is equally competent to
get into allopathic surgical training programs.
After all, the only differences are the letters after
our name and our philosophy of holistic medicine,
two words that are rapidly becoming
buzzwords in the allopathic arena."

"Most Asian graduates and graduates from Australia,
New Zealand, and several other European nations
have M.B.B.S., M.B., or M.B.Ch.B. degrees,
which are bachelor of medicine and bachelor of
surgery degrees. Once they pass an examination
given by the Educational Council for Foreign
Medical Graduates, they start writing “M.D.” after
their names. I am not sure whether the Educational
Council for Foreign Medical Graduates
or the American Medical Association is
legally chartered or authorized to award M.D.
degrees.

The ECFMG is not chartered to issue the MD degree, and they are not doing that. Each state has the authority though to grant medical licenses.
A DO is not an allopathic medical degree, although an MBBS is.
Once a foreign "allopathic medical graduate" completes ECFMG certification that states he/she is a legal allopathic equivilant to MD, then they are allowed to put those nominals after their name for the most part because the North American community is not as aware of the nominals MBBS unless they have lived in Australia, UK, or some British Commonwealth at some point in their lives.

 

[medhacker]

The ECFMG is not chartered to issue the MD degree, and they are not doing that. Each state has the authority though to grant medical licenses.
A DO is not an allopathic medical degree, although an MBBS is.
Once a foreign "allopathic medical graduate" completes ECFMG certification that states he/she is a legal allopathic equivilant to MD, then they are allowed to put those nominals after their name for the most part because the North American community is not as aware of the nominals MBBS unless they have lived in Australia, UK, or some British Commonwealth at some point in their lives.

Are you aware of any such state legislation? I tried looking it up and could not find it - could you direct me to state/name of legislation that allows states to do this? thanks.

 

[tjmDO]

So what you are saying is that to impress the american public they let these individuals who are equivalent to medical doctors just go ahead and take credit for two - four more years of education and call themselves doctors even though they have only got Masters degrees or better yet a Bachelors (sp)? NP's can practice as physicians, solo primary care practice, in some parts of the country but you don't call them Doctor.

What the author of the article was trying to impress is the fact that in order to call an institution a medical school in this country reguardless if it is allo- or osteopathic you must teach to a certain level, that is why DO's can sit for the USMLE. Other countries medical schools are not held to the same standards.

 

[OzDDS]

So what you are saying is that to impress the american public they let these individuals who are equivalent to medical doctors just go ahead and take credit for two - four more years of education and call themselves doctors even though they have only got Masters degrees or better yet a Bachelors (sp)? NP's can practice as physicians, solo primary care practice, in some parts of the country but you don't call them Doctor.

What the author of the article was trying to impress is the fact that in order to call an institution a medical school in this country reguardless if it is allo- or osteopathic you must teach to a certain level, that is why DO's can sit for the USMLE. Other countries medical schools are not held to the same standards.

What are you talking about? Even a US MD degree is still an "undergraduate medical education degree" or as some like to call it "a first professional degree".

The first medical degree to be offered in the US was even called a bachelor of medicine given by the University of Penn.

Interestingly enough.. The UK and Australia do not allow CRNAs to practice and also do not consider NPs to be the same as medical trained GPs, but they do in the US. To my knowledge the UK and Australia also do not allow DOs to practice either because they do not consider them to be to the level of someone with an MBBS. 🙄

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelors_of_Medicine_and_Surgery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine

If the US states that they are "legal equivilents" of each other. Which it does! ie.
MD = MBBS

That means one of two things:

1) Says that another countries bachelor degree is to the level of a doctorate in the US.

or

2) Says that a Doctorate in the US is no greater level than a bachelors.




I'd have to say that the better definition would be #2.
.. for one because this is the first degree in that field that is offered. ie. an MD does not build on prior Medical knowledge and training (a previous bachelors in bio does not count as this is technically a different field)


Just because you complete a prior degree before entering medicine.. even if it is required.. that does not make it a doctorate in that field of study.

Actually ask some of the medical students from the Australia or the UK. There are many medical schools that 'require' a previous degree before you can begin the program. (Graduate entry programs) But the degree you recieve is still a "bachelor of medicine" (MBBS).

There are also 6-year med programs for students right out of high school in the US too!

For example: 20 years ago if you were to attend a physical therapy program in the US you would graduate with a bachelors of PT. 10 years ago you would have finished a Masters of PT, and now all of the PT programs are switching to a "doctorate" DPT degree.. but guess what.. at the end of the day your still just a physical therapist. Your "scope of practice is no different" regardless of what you call the degree.
In the US.. educational programs like to bump up the title to help market them to a paying public. (part of the reason for the PT change in title was to help the politcal plight of the PTs to help them compete with the chiros). Because Chiros were moving into the "sports med" area these days and because chiros have direct access to patients and PTs are usually referral based. (basically this full of silly fluff and is done for politics and money)

The British system (upon which the US education system is founded btw) still keeps to the true definition and tradition of education. and apperantly has chosen (rightfully so) to keep it's honor and history rather than succumbing to money and has successfully kept it's political pressure groups from misinterperting and changing it's foundation.

 

[medhacker]

To my knowledge the UK and Australia also do not allow DOs to practice either because they do not consider them to be to the level of someone with an MBBS. 🙄

At this moment Australia recognizes US. trained DOs to have full practice rights.

 

[OzDDS]

At this moment Australia recognizes US. trained DOs to have full practice rights.

http://www.do-online.osteotech.org/index.cfm?PageID=lcl_intlnewsukrights

I did find this statement from (do-online.osteotech.org) which is pretty recent. Although not sure I would claim this to be really valid source since it is not from the UK medical board. But I’ll presume it's true. I couldn't find anything at all on the registration of US-DOs in Australia, but I figure if they are now being accepted to register with the medical board in the UK then they will most likely be able to register with the Australian Medical Board. The next question is.. will they be able to register for any form of specialty training or fellowship program? Just because the Med Board allowed them to sit the PLAB doesn't necessarily mean that they will be warmly welcomed into the Royal College of Surgeons etc. I’m not saying that it’s a good or bad thing, just that there’s a long road ahead still for any US-DOs really being accepted and really fully integrated into the UK and Australia medical system. They may not have as great a problem registering in New Zealand (1st world) or some of the (3rd world ) British commonwealth countries because for the most part a lot of these are pretty desperate for docs so they would be a lot looser with their restrictions.

Just curious, but do you have any sources of any US trained DO who has completed specialty training in the UK or Australia at the resident or fellowship level?

 

[thenavysurgeon]

Hey Navysurgeon, I think you are pretty marginal. I have read some of your posts and you are a pretty negative person. Maybe you should keep your mouth shut if you don't have anything good to say and quit discouraging young aspiring physicians and surgeons. We all know you hate D.O.'s and think that anyone going into plastics should allow you to proceed ahead of them because they are obviously inferior, but don't discourage people because you don't think, and I use that term lightly, that a cosmetic fellowship is marginal. Give back to those that follow your lead rather than take away.

tjmDO,

thanks for your comments.

you were the individual looking for advice. the truth of the matter is that DOs seeking spots in plastic surgery training programs are gonna have a tough time.

i'll look forward to reviewing your application someday.

 

[tjmDO]

Thanks,

I'll look forward to the rejection.

lol

 

[MossPoh]

I think you two should hug now...

 

[Jocomama]

1) There are several DO Surgeons that have obtained formal independent Plastic Surgery Residency positions. I know one that trained at UT Galveston about 9 yrs ago, and another one entering the Medical College of Georgia Plastic Surgery Program this July 2006.

2) YOu may wish to do 2 years of Plastic Surgery research at one of the institutions.

3) Dr Michael Gray is a DO surgeon that according to his CV did Cosmetic Surgery fellowships and is actively performing Cosmetic Surgery in the affluent suburbs of Detroit. I cannot comment about anything except what I have stated.

Good luck

Starting a DO Gen Surg residency in June. What is the best route for me to become a plastic surgeon?, and should I do plastics or a fellowship in cosmetics only?

Thanks

 

[beastmaster]

I know ... one entering the Medical College of Georgia Plastic Surgery Program this July 2006.

What school did this person graduate?

 

[Jocomama]

Don't know. He is doing his General Surgery training at MCGeorgia currently. The one who trained at Galveston did his general surgery at a DO residency, then 1 yr of Plastic Surgery research at U Michigan in 1994 or 95