Doing research without getting any publications

[medstudent7860]

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What do you guys think about doing research in which your name will not be on the publication? For example, I am helping out with clinical trials that are going on at a local hospital. These are big studies, and there is no way that my name will be on anything. However, I still can put it on my CV since I was at least involved and can talk about it at interviews. Do you think this is helpful or not worth much when applying to residencies?

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

If you can put the effort into something you'll get your name on instead, I'd do that.

 

[qw098]

What do you guys think about doing research in which your name will not be on the publication? For example, I am helping out with clinical trials that are going on at a local hospital. These are big studies, and there is no way that my name will be on anything. However, I still can put it on my CV since I was at least involved and can talk about it at interviews. Do you think this is helpful or not worth much when applying to residencies?

It's ok... but we live in a world where it's all about pubs... even if your research means nothing. Kind depressing that's the way academia works these days.

 

[operaman]

It's better than nothing, but nowhere near the level of actual pubs. I would absolutely use your time for things where you will be an author. Programs, especially academic ones, want residents who will be productive researchers. People who were productive as students are probably going to continue that record in residency. Pubs show that you know how to be productive and get things from A to Z. They also serve as solid proof you actually did something. My spidey sense says many of the research experiences people list are grossly exaggerated. Peer reviewed pubs mitigate that uncertainty.

 

[referee3]

It's better than nothing, but nowhere near the level of actual pubs. I would absolutely use your time for things where you will be an author. Programs, especially academic ones, want residents who will be productive researchers. People who were productive as students are probably going to continue that record in residency. Pubs show that you know how to be productive and get things from A to Z. They also serve as solid proof you actually did something. My spidey sense says many of the research experiences people list are grossly exaggerated. Peer reviewed pubs mitigate that uncertainty.

Agree but just cause something is peer reviewed doesn't completely mitigate that uncertainty. There are sooo many garbage journals out there that anyone can publish in. If you want your work to be respected it has to be in a decent journal to say the least.

 

[operaman]

Agree but just cause something is peer reviewed doesn't completely mitigate that uncertainty. There are sooo many garbage journals out there that anyone can publish in. If you want your work to be respected it has to be in a decent journal to say the least.

Well yes, of course. People in any given field know which ones are reputable.

 

[medstudent7860]

I'm an MS3 though, so I'll be applying in September. I doubt I'll be able to get a publication by then. Is the research I'm doing completely worthless though? I may have ~5 projects like that for my CV. And I actually put in a lot of time for these research experiences. Unfortunately, my school does not have much research available so this is the best I could do. 🙁

 

[operaman]

I'm an MS3 though, so I'll be applying in September. I doubt I'll be able to get a publication by then. Is the research I'm doing completely worthless though? I may have ~5 projects like that for my CV. And I actually put in a lot of time for these research experiences. Unfortunately, my school does not have much research available so this is the best I could do. 🙁

They are definitely not worthless! I was asked about a couple of ongoing projects almost as much as I was asked about past pubs. They are definitely worth something. That said, actual publications are academic gold. You have plenty of time left before September. I've known people do 5 papers between now and ERAS time! That's a little crazy, but doable. Look around for some projects you can get done asap. Look for case reports/series as well as these are very easy to write (though sometimes harder to get published).

 

[medstudent7860]

They are definitely not worthless! I was asked about a couple of ongoing projects almost as much as I was asked about past pubs. They are definitely worth something. That said, actual publications are academic gold. You have plenty of time left before September. I've known people do 5 papers between now and ERAS time! That's a little crazy, but doable. Look around for some projects you can get done asap. Look for case reports/series as well as these are very easy to write (though sometimes harder to get published).

You were asked about ongoing projects, but were those projects that were eventually going to be published with you as an author? Because my ongoing projects will be multicenter clinical trials that will be published without my name.

 

[operaman]

Well assuming we get them to publication, yes I'll be an author, but that's really all that relevant when the project is still ongoing and hasn't ever been presented/published. Everything is rumor and window dressing until something has passed through peer review and been published.

Ideally, you would have a nice mix of published and ongoing projects; most active researchers and clinicians will have CVs to this effect. Even since submitting ERAS I've published another first author paper, had 4 abstracts accepted at meetings, and even more ongoing projects. I really love this stuff so I'm always working on something and I think my CV reflects that passion. Even on the interview trail I met many people who were also balancing ongoing work with rotations and interviews.

My advice to you would be to meet with faculty in your desired specialty ASAP and see what you can get working on that you could get published fast. Even if you can't get it published, at least have it submitted to a journal by the time you apply. I honestly probably hear about 2-3 potential projects each week and I'm not even looking for any new ones right now. They are everywhere. Find something that interests you that would likely be published and turn it around FAST. You can write a case report/lit review rough draft in a weekend. Many of your faculty may be working on review articles that you could assist with, but clarify authorship before you lift a finger. Ask your mentors if they have any cases to write up or any chart review projects you could do. These things are insanely easy to do.

 

[dgu334]

Ask your mentors if they have any cases to write up or any chart review projects you could do. These things are insanely easy to do.

Could you clarify what exactly a case writeup/chart review entails? You mentioned it is really easy so is it basically just summarizing up data/results into paragraph format?

 

[operaman]

Basically, yes. Case reports are interesting patients either with an extremely uncommon issue or an uncommon presentation of a more common one. It can also demonstrate a novel management strategy. In addition to presenting the case, they may also do a review of all the literature on the topic.

Cases series are similar but just have larger numbers.

Chart reviews usually refers to retrospective studies where you full through the medical record for data to answer whatever your research question is. These are usually IRB exempt status so they will review to make sure it is but then you can skip the full board review thing.

You can also look at research with existing large data sets if any of your local faculty are doing this (SEER, etc). No irb required and easy once you figure out the software.

 

[medstudent7860]

Well assuming we get them to publication, yes I'll be an author, but that's really all that relevant when the project is still ongoing and hasn't ever been presented/published. Everything is rumor and window dressing until something has passed through peer review and been published.

Ideally, you would have a nice mix of published and ongoing projects; most active researchers and clinicians will have CVs to this effect. Even since submitting ERAS I've published another first author paper, had 4 abstracts accepted at meetings, and even more ongoing projects. I really love this stuff so I'm always working on something and I think my CV reflects that passion. Even on the interview trail I met many people who were also balancing ongoing work with rotations and interviews.

My advice to you would be to meet with faculty in your desired specialty ASAP and see what you can get working on that you could get published fast. Even if you can't get it published, at least have it submitted to a journal by the time you apply. I honestly probably hear about 2-3 potential projects each week and I'm not even looking for any new ones right now. They are everywhere. Find something that interests you that would likely be published and turn it around FAST. You can write a case report/lit review rough draft in a weekend. Many of your faculty may be working on review articles that you could assist with, but clarify authorship before you lift a finger. Ask your mentors if they have any cases to write up or any chart review projects you could do. These things are insanely easy to do.

That's awesome that you've done so much! What specialty are you applying for?

 

[Psai]

ent

 

[medstudent7860]

Does ENT look for more research in applicants? (I'm applying for IM or derm)

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

AFAIK you will definitely need publications for Derm.

 

[scoKraz4]

I am only a second year but am just curious if poster presentations count as "publications"

 

[operaman]

I am only a second year but am just curious if poster presentations count as "publications"

Yes, but they aren't as strong as a peer reviewed journal pub. Generally it goes:

Journal pub >>> oral presentation > poster

 

[Espadaleader]

I would say any research not guaranteed to be publishable (abstract or manuscript) is worthless. There are SO MANY doctors with case reports waiting to be written and they have no problem slapping an authorship on it. This is especially true in competitive specialties. Most PIs at my school say they know we only have 10 weeks to devote 100% time to research so they struggle to make sure we have something to show for it